2nd 6 Month Period

[siddv]

Does the 2nd 6 month period start immediately or once you enter again. The situation:

1st 6 month Period October 22, 2006-April 22, 2007

1. 1st entry October 22, 2006- November 5, 2006 ( 15 days )

2. 2nd entry December 16, 2006-January 9, 2007 ( 25 days )

3. 3rd entry April 1, 2007-April 22, 2007 ( 22 days )

Total days =62 days

I was good for the 1st period!!!!!

Question? Does my 2nd 6 month period start on April 22 07 or when I actually arrive once again in Thailand on July 29, 07?

April 22-September 22, 2007 or

2nd 6 month Period July 29, 2007 August 19, 07

I would think that it starts when I actually arrrive in July since there is discussion about no rolling periods. Any thoughts. Thanks

[Krub]

Does the 2nd 6 month period start immediately or once you enter again. The situation:

1st 6 month Period October 22, 2006-April 22, 2007

1. 1st entry October 22, 2006- November 5, 2006 ( 15 days )

2. 2nd entry December 16, 2006-January 9, 2007 ( 25 days )

3. 3rd entry April 1, 2007-April 22, 2007 ( 22 days )

Total days =62 days

I was good for the 1st period!!!!!

Question? Does my 2nd 6 month period start on April 22 07 or when I actually arrive once again in Thailand on July 29, 07?

April 22-September 22, 2007 or

2nd 6 month Period July 29, 2007 August 19, 07

I would think that it starts when I actually arrrive in July since there is discussion about no rolling periods. Any thoughts. Thanks

It is a good question and we don't know the answer as it is open to interpretation and application at the entry point.

If they are fixed periods as it seems they are applied I would think your second period of 180 days has started on 22 April and you would be allowed 90 days of visa free entries during that new 180 days period.

[cali4995]

siddv, i recently started the "second round" and my first stamp for this set got a green highlighted #1. it's always going to be open to interpretation and the rules seem to be deliberately obtuse. i'm nostalgic for the old days but these visa exempt entries are becoming something of an emergency measure only. you can't count on it.

[astral]

It all started on the 1st October 2006 and if you arrived that day, the 180 day clock started ticking.............

If you arrived on the 1st December then the 180 day clock started there.............

Simple in theory, but sheer murder for the poor immigration officer at the airport.

If you are concerned about the "next" 180 day period, why not go and get a Tourist Visa

and avoid the hassle??

[siddv]

I don't live in Thailand and I don't like having to mail my passport to Los Angeles to get a tourist visa stamp good for 60 days when I only stay in Thailand 3 weeks max every 3-4 months. Seems like over kill to me. It also seem that someone traveling my schedule will never hit 90 days w/in 180 days. The question I posed I thought was a simple one albiet nobody knows what the heck is going on given the range of interpretations. I shoud be ok even if the 2nd period started April 22, 07 for me rather when I actually come back to LOS on July 29 for another 3 weeks. Anyway thanks.

[Krub]

I don't live in Thailand and I don't like having to mail my passport to Los Angeles to get a tourist visa stamp good for 60 days when I only stay in Thailand 3 weeks max every 3-4 months. Seems like over kill to me. It also seem that someone traveling my schedule will never hit 90 days w/in 180 days. The question I posed I thought was a simple one albiet nobody knows what the heck is going on given the range of interpretations. I shoud be ok even if the 2nd period started April 22, 07 for me rather when I actually come back to LOS on July 29 for another 3 weeks. Anyway thanks.

If you only come for 2 weeks, it does not matter when your 180 days period starts

You should be able to get a tourist visa at the nearest Thai Embassy, no need to send your passport away.

[Mid]

according to the sign at the Andaman Club pier it's individual and your 2nd 6mth period will start 6 mths after the first 6 mth period commenced , which was on your first entry after the new regulations were introduced ..................................

clear now ????

[cali4995]

siddv, it is a good question. i just assumed the 2nd 6-month period started with my 1st entry after the initial 6-month period had lapsed. which may not be correct? as time goes on it appears this system will just get more constraining and require ever more calculations on the part of immigration staff. in your particular case i can't see it ever being a problem. the andaman club? is that a harbor in phuket? i've not seen this posted anywhere else? i'll have to look carefully next time i'm at immigration.

[PhilHarries]

Another spanner in the works!

Take the first six month period from Oct 22nd to Apr 21st and the guy does the same visit pattern.

Second six month period is from Apr 22nd to Oct 21st. But this time he doesn't return to Thailand until Oct 15th.

Will he only get six days then have to do a border run?

The more you look at this the more you realise what a mess they've created. It's looking more and more like they've got three options:-

1. Forget the 90/180 rule and let it slip back to the old ways. Wishfull thinking for some but unlikely in the extreme.

2. Abolish back to back visa exemption stamps and introduce a minimum separation period, say seven days. Not good for genuine tourists who want to do a weekend trip to Siem Reap or Singapore.

3. Abolish the visa exemption stamp altogether, and this has been discussed on another thread. Again not good for genuine tourists nor people working in neighbouring countries but not close to a Thai embassy or consulate.

There is a fourth option to install a computerised database to track the entry and exit of all visitors on visa exemption stamps. Can be done at the airports but what about all the land crossing points? Even if they did this the visitors themselves need to know exactly how it's calculated so they can plan their trips.

[Mid]

There is a fourth option to install a computerised database to track the entry and exit of all visitors on visa exemption stamps. Can be done at the airports but what about all the land crossing points? Even if they did this the visitors themselves need to know exactly how it's calculated so they can plan their trips.

Singapore ............................................

[siddv]

Phill: Excata mundo! Unless its posible to leap or rater bridge the periods together, between say the 2nd and 3rd or all subsequent 6th month periods. Otherwise we get into the stiuation you pointed out.

One would assume the periods could be joined otherwise this is complete lunacy. ..you use nothing during a 6 month period show up with 3 days remaining in the period and you get stamped for 3 days!!

That cannot be the proper interpretation, unless you can put the other 27 days into the subsequent 6th months. Crazy

[kkcheo]

An immigration office in at the Nong Khai border to Laos told me he interprets the rule as rolling 180 days then therefore, there is no such thing as a "2nd 6 months". Like some of the more experienced members above, it may be open to interpretation.

Good luck.

-kkcheo

Edited May 27, 2007 by kkcheo

[LivinLOS]

according to the sign at the Andaman Club pier it's individual and your 2nd 6mth period will start 6 mths after the first 6 mth period commenced , which was on your first entry after the new regulations were introduced ..................................

clear now ????

LOL yeah clear as mud..

Does a '2nd 6 month period' mean that anyone coming back into the country a few days before one year after thier earliest entry only get a few days.. and how would that apply if they hadnt even visited in that second 6 months..

They couldnt have made more of a mess if they tried.

Consider passports expired and replaced.. How long will blocks be enforceable for ?? In 10 years time will they still be looking back to find your starting point block dates ??

Edited May 27, 2007 by LivinLOS

[jii]

i dont agree with your reasoning.

either make it unlimited border runs to which most of asia is already. so many countries i could give as examples where so many people that i know are there on tourist visas way over 6 months of the year.

or do none of your other suggestions and make it a simple 180 days out of every calander year for the 41 countries that most ly dont cause trouble. lets explain that for the year 2007 you have 180 days no matter if you came at the beginning or and the end. ok then in 2008 you could stay for another 180 days right after but after that you must leave and can not come back even on a tourist visa until 2009. also all tourist visa or free visa exempt visas count towards the same time in thailand.

why do you have make everything so complicated? your suggestions even using a computer does not at all end the mass confusion of not knowing just what are the rules. and also there are 4 differnet immigrations in thailand all have dff rules. some are fixed 6 months some are a rolling 6 months. all of the immigration must also come to a common policy.

Another spanner in the works!

Take the first six month period from Oct 22nd to Apr 21st and the guy does the same visit pattern.

Second six month period is from Apr 22nd to Oct 21st. But this time he doesn't return to Thailand until Oct 15th.

Will he only get six days then have to do a border run?

The more you look at this the more you realise what a mess they've created. It's looking more and more like they've got three options:-

1. Forget the 90/180 rule and let it slip back to the old ways. Wishfull thinking for some but unlikely in the extreme.

2. Abolish back to back visa exemption stamps and introduce a minimum separation period, say seven days. Not good for genuine tourists who want to do a weekend trip to Siem Reap or Singapore.

3. Abolish the visa exemption stamp altogether, and this has been discussed on another thread. Again not good for genuine tourists nor people working in neighbouring countries but not close to a Thai embassy or consulate.

There is a fourth option to install a computerised database to track the entry and exit of all visitors on visa exemption stamps. Can be done at the airports but what about all the land crossing points? Even if they did this the visitors themselves need to know exactly how it's calculated so they can plan their trips.

[correct]

i would have presumed the 2nd 6 month period started the day after the 1st 6 month period finished.

[LivinLOS]

i would have presumed the 2nd 6 month period started the day after the 1st 6 month period finished.

Would you say the same if the person had not entered Thailand at all in the 6 months ?? When does a stay away clear the clock ??

Say someone came in Oct 10th.. one time.. Then returned a year later on Oct 8th.. Would that being near the end of the second block (according to your theory) get only a 2 day visa exemption ?? For a total of 32 days in a year !!

The whole thing is just got more holes than swiss cheese..

[correct]

the first 6 month period starts from the first day you enter thailand and the second 6 month period starts 6 months after the first day you entered Thailand, easy innit!!!!!!!

[LivinLOS]

the first 6 month period starts from the first day you enter thailand and the second 6 month period starts 6 months after the first day you entered Thailand, easy innit!!!!!!!

So in my example above.. you agree that someone visiting Thailand for a weekend on Oct 10 - Oct 12 starts the clock.. Then almost 12 months later he comes for another weekend on the Oct 9th but only gets 1 day incountry as thats the end of his 'second block'.. For a total of 3 days in one year..

Thats how absurd it is..

[correct]

the first 6 month period starts from the first day you enter thailand and the second 6 month period starts 6 months after the first day you entered Thailand, easy innit!!!!!!!

So in my example above.. you agree that someone visiting Thailand for a weekend on Oct 10 - Oct 12 starts the clock.. Then almost 12 months later he comes for another weekend on the Oct 9th but only gets 1 day incountry as thats the end of his 'second block'.. For a total of 3 days in one year..

Thats how absurd it is..

hard to tell if you are being serious or dumb, he stayed for 2 days in a 6 month period, so what? then he comes the following year, he will get 30 days on entry, whats hard to understand???

[LivinLOS]

I am just playing silly with the rules as they stand..

Last 6 month block.. Technically someone who visited Thailand even for one day started a 'block' and if he came back to Thailand just short of 180 days then he was in danger of being given a reduced amount of days to take him to 180 only. this was the people with only 1 week stamps or so when they were far short of 90 days. The extreme situation if this rule was followed exactly would be 1 day entry and a second visit at 179 days and only being given one other day.. That was the idocy of the block system !!

Then if we make this even more idiotic we have a second block that then starts and ends back to his one year point.. Again at the end of his second block he is in the danger zone of reduced visa exempt days no matter how many days he had been incountry within the block.

This process is supposed to go on for how long ?? Running blocks back to the Autumn of 07.. No tracking through multiple passports and as they expire.

The system of 'bocks' is truly one thats mind bogglingly poor management.

[PanzerJohn]

If the immigration are manually counting the days by the stamps in your passport, what happens if you have renewed your passport, do you have to take the old one and show it as well?.

[streetlite]

I don't live in Thailand and I don't like having to mail my passport to Los Angeles to get a tourist visa stamp good for 60 days when I only stay in Thailand 3 weeks max every 3-4 months. Seems like over kill to me. It also seem that someone traveling my schedule will never hit 90 days w/in 180 days. The question I posed I thought was a simple one albiet nobody knows what the heck is going on given the range of interpretations. I shoud be ok even if the 2nd period started April 22, 07 for me rather when I actually come back to LOS on July 29 for another 3 weeks. Anyway thanks.

Jsut got my Visa back from Thai Embassy in NY with a new 60 day Tourist stamp. I did worry for the week that it was out of my possession but it all worked out. You have to use the stamp within 90 days.

[karazyal]

Does the 2nd 6 month period start immediately or once you enter again. The situation:

1st 6 month Period October 22, 2006-April 22, 2007

1. 1st entry October 22, 2006- November 5, 2006 ( 15 days )

2. 2nd entry December 16, 2006-January 9, 2007 ( 25 days )

3. 3rd entry April 1, 2007-April 22, 2007 ( 22 days )

Total days =62 days

I was good for the 1st period!!!!!

Question? Does my 2nd 6 month period start on April 22 07 or when I actually arrive once again in Thailand on July 29, 07?

April 22-September 22, 2007 or

2nd 6 month Period July 29, 2007 August 19, 07

I would think that it starts when I actually arrrive in July since there is discussion about no rolling periods. Any thoughts. Thanks

*

I am taking the "6 months rule" as being a fluid time period!

My thinking is that beginning the day I expect to arrive at the immigration booth in Thailand - count back six months.

If I have less than ninety days in Thailand (within the past 6 months) I can get the free visa stamp. (What is not certain is that suppose I have 80 days at that point in time, does this mean I only get the 10 day difference?)

My thinking is that you should be able to get 30 days free every 2 months - in a 6 months period that would still only be 90 days!

Not my problem, since this new rule started I show up at the airport and get a 30 day stamp in my passport about every 1 or 2 months since October without any problem - so far! I can only stay 15 days at a whack now because of "stuff" at home.

So far it has worked for me. I count back and for every 30 day entry stamp I count up the actual days in country (I jot it down in pencil over the stamp) and use that figure for computation. No immigration official has said anything yet - maybe I have been lucky!

[David Barker]

i would have presumed the 2nd 6 month period started the day after the 1st 6 month period finished.

We have come in through Bangkok airport 5 times since alll this started coming in for between 1 and 5 weeks and have been told on 3 occasions that the rule is very simple any 90 in any 180 period it does not matter about start dates or any thing else even though on our last trip it took us to 92 imigration stamped us 1 day short as you do not pay for the first day of overstay and that they can give 1 day ove without having to refer to a superior.

All staff very helpful in my view

[lamphun]

According to Chiang Mai Immigration it's a fixed time period as suggested above. I now have a stamp in my passport which says something like "10th of May 2007 start of second six months". I wasn't in Thailand on the 10th of May.

Crazy application of the rules. Perhaps they'll be relaxed in a coiple of years but this is Thailand, they won't be changed.

[andyc2006]

I don't live in Thailand and I don't like having to mail my passport to Los Angeles to get a tourist visa stamp good for 60 days when I only stay in Thailand 3 weeks max every 3-4 months. Seems like over kill to me. It also seem that someone traveling my schedule will never hit 90 days w/in 180 days. The question I posed I thought was a simple one albiet nobody knows what the heck is going on given the range of interpretations. I shoud be ok even if the 2nd period started April 22, 07 for me rather when I actually come back to LOS on July 29 for another 3 weeks. Anyway thanks.

If you only come for 2 weeks, it does not matter when your 180 days period starts

You should be able to get a tourist visa at the nearest Thai Embassy, no need to send your passport away.

the USA is a big place...

i can travel 500 miles to my "nearest Thai Embassy," and deal with its unpredictable schedule, or i can send my passport to them.

like the OP, my options are basically to mail my passport to the Los Angeles embassy to get a visa or use the 30-day permit-to-stays.

[uk_falang]

Be Careful!

What you are suggesting is ILLEGAL - if you are in Thailand at the time of posting off your passport. This might get you in serious trouble if the immigration officer in Thailand realises that you were in Thailand at the time when your passport was in USA getting a Thai visa.

A better option could be to leave Thailand go so, say Laos - fedex your PP to the USA and get the visa there (someone in USA to forward on your application).

You could then return to Thailand with a visa issued from a Thai consulate overseas. Which is legal

You could also apply for a ONE YEAR BUSINESS VISA - with very minimal supporting documentation - usually they will accept only an invitation from a Thai company OR a letter from a foreign company - ie a letter stating that someone is sending you on a business trip to Thailand. In the unlikely event that this is not issued then they will give you a tourist or possible an "o" visa instead - so you will still get a visa - so worth a try to get a business visa.

You are in effect here on business but not working. Business here could be researching to write a book, planning a business, etc

I don't live in Thailand and I don't like having to mail my passport to Los Angeles to get a tourist visa stamp good for 60 days when I only stay in Thailand 3 weeks max every 3-4 months. Seems like over kill to me. It also seem that someone traveling my schedule will never hit 90 days w/in 180 days. The question I posed I thought was a simple one albiet nobody knows what the heck is going on given the range of interpretations. I shoud be ok even if the 2nd period started April 22, 07 for me rather when I actually come back to LOS on July 29 for another 3 weeks. Anyway thanks.

If you only come for 2 weeks, it does not matter when your 180 days period starts

You should be able to get a tourist visa at the nearest Thai Embassy, no need to send your passport away.

the USA is a big place...

i can travel 500 miles to my "nearest Thai Embassy," and deal with its unpredictable schedule, or i can send my passport to them.

like the OP, my options are basically to mail my passport to the Los Angeles embassy to get a visa or use the 30-day permit-to-stays.

[andyc2006]

Be Careful!

What you are suggesting is ILLEGAL - if you are in Thailand at the time of posting off your passport. This might get you in serious trouble if the immigration officer in Thailand realises that you were in Thailand at the time when your passport was in USA getting a Thai visa.

A better option could be to leave Thailand go so, say Laos - fedex your PP to the USA and get the visa there (someone in USA to forward on your application).

You could then return to Thailand with a visa issued from a Thai consulate overseas. Which is legal

You could also apply for a ONE YEAR BUSINESS VISA - with very minimal supporting documentation - usually they will accept only an invitation from a Thai company OR a letter from a foreign company - ie a letter stating that someone is sending you on a business trip to Thailand. In the unlikely event that this is not issued then they will give you a tourist or possible an "o" visa instead - so you will still get a visa - so worth a try to get a business visa.

You are in effect here on business but not working. Business here could be researching to write a book, planning a business, etc

I don't live in Thailand and I don't like having to mail my passport to Los Angeles to get a tourist visa stamp good for 60 days when I only stay in Thailand 3 weeks max every 3-4 months. Seems like over kill to me. It also seem that someone traveling my schedule will never hit 90 days w/in 180 days. The question I posed I thought was a simple one albiet nobody knows what the heck is going on given the range of interpretations. I shoud be ok even if the 2nd period started April 22, 07 for me rather when I actually come back to LOS on July 29 for another 3 weeks. Anyway thanks.

If you only come for 2 weeks, it does not matter when your 180 days period starts

You should be able to get a tourist visa at the nearest Thai Embassy, no need to send your passport away.

the USA is a big place...

i can travel 500 miles to my "nearest Thai Embassy," and deal with its unpredictable schedule, or i can send my passport to them.

like the OP, my options are basically to mail my passport to the Los Angeles embassy to get a visa or use the 30-day permit-to-stays.

i have no clue what you're ranting about.

if you intentionally replied to my post, then you've either misunderstood it or completely mischaracterized it. i'm not suggesting anything illegal.

i'm suggesting that when IN the USA, my nearest thai embassy is over 500 miles away (for others, it's even farther), and the only practical way to obtain an official visa is to mail them my passport. most of us hate doing that, so we just use the 30-day "freebies."

i have no issue paying for a visa, but i do have an issue mailing my passport to an embassy, and in the US, most of us don't live within "visiting" distance of a Thai embassy.

[Maigo6]

If the immigration are manually counting the days by the stamps in your passport, what happens if you have renewed your passport, do you have to take the old one and show it as well?.

I was issued a new Passport in January, and was asked to show my old one also, at Aranyaprathet in March when coming into Thailand.

I never had it, but as the new passport has the old passport number in it, they checked the old passport entries up on the computer, I was over the new rule limit of days since October and was told I could not come back into Thailand, after some considerable delay I was stamped in.

I was stamped in on 19th March at 3 pm and my entry stamp permitted me to stay till 19th March, I got 9 hours.......

It was impossible for me to leave till the next day, I told the officer that I would be on overstay in 9 hours and it was not possible for me to arrange tickets and leave Thailand by midnight, his words were " I don't care ", he wouldn't even give me one day. I was leaving Thailand within a few days to work abroad, it made no difference, " You leave Today ".

I eventually got home I had called my travel agent from my car and collected my ticket at 7 pm to fly to Singapore the next day. I was on overstay driving to Bangkok Airport, I left Thailand to Singapore, 2 Nights in Singapore recieved a Tourist Visa for 50 Singapore Dollars from The Thai Embassy, flew back to Thailand, was stamped in for 60 days then left for work outside Thailand for a 3 month contract 2 days later..........

So yes, they can still check up your old passport details on the computer, even without you having it on your person.

Edited May 28, 2007 by Maigo6

[PhilHarries]

or do none of your other suggestions and make it a simple 180 days out of every calander year for the 41 countries that most ly dont cause trouble. lets explain that for the year 2007 you have 180 days no matter if you came at the beginning or and the end. ok then in 2008 you could stay for another 180 days right after but after that you must leave and can not come back even on a tourist visa until 2009. also all tourist visa or free visa exempt visas count towards the same time in thailand.

why do you have make everything so complicated? your suggestions even using a computer does not at all end the mass confusion of not knowing just what are the rules. and also there are 4 differnet immigrations in thailand all have dff rules. some are fixed 6 months some are a rolling 6 months. all of the immigration must also come to a common policy.

Doesn't matter whether you take time blocks from your first entry into Thailand or whether you take fixed calender blocks, calender years as you suggest. You still end up with someone who has not visitted Thailand for the majority of his time block but enters near the end and only gets a few days before having to do a border run. The calender year block would be probably the worst option as a lot of folks go to Thailand for a 3 - 4 week break over Christmas and New Year holidays. So someone arriving 15th Dec for a four week holiday only gets a permitted stay to the 31st than has to leave, stay out overnight returning on the 1st to start a second block. So you haven't simplified nor changed anything at all.

The real solution is a rolling six calender month block from any date they wish to choose. Then all they have to do is count six calender months back from your current arrival, say May 28th back to Nov 28th, then any visa exempts with exit stamps older than that are ignored. The days within that six months are added up and subtracted from 90 and then your permitted stay on visa exempt is the lesser of that figure or 30 days. But given the state older passports get into and the legibility of stamps that would lead to huge delays at immigration. A computerised system overcomes this problem but requires a nationwide network covering all entry and exit points.

If you actually read my post you'd see that I make the point that the rules have to be understood by the travellers and, of course, consistently interpreted by immigration. The computerised database is the only sure fire was the system can be made to work consistently but even sophisticated western businesses have troubles maintaining their LAN's so just imagine the problems an entire country like Thailand would have.

But let's face facts here. The current system with all it's quirks and interpretations does not affect 99.99% of people travelling to Thailand. The few it does affect are those, like myself, who work in the region and visit on a regular basis and those who cannot obtain a long term visa, retirement or marriage etc, but who want to live in Thailand. These people the Thai government do not care about no matter how much money they can throw around. The system was designed to make it less convenient for foriegn undesirables to stay long term in the Kingdom. Unfortunately these undesirables are the ones most likely to ignore the rules and just overstay, paying up when they exit.

The only thing that will make the government relook at the rules is if tourist numbers nose dive and it can be attributed to the visa rules. Even then the current crop of politicos would probably blame someone else. The 0.01% of us affected by this issue barely twitch the scales.