Visa To Spend The Remainderof My Life In Thailand?

[coalminer]

Hi,

Yesterday, while browsing for information on the latest Visa rules for Thailand, I came to the link of the Thai Immigration office: http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/en/ba...p?page=service#

It is difficult to understand some pages on said link and it is not clear if some rules are new or simply an error.

For example, the Thai spouse Visa Extension gives no details about the minimum financial requirement, but stipulate nevertheless the requirement of a copy of the bank book and a statement of income from the Embassy.

Under this category, requirement are given for 3 possibilities, but it is not clear if the requirements for each of the 3 possiblities needs to be fulfilled in the matching case, or only one possibility is applied.

The summarisation of documents to provide in the case of "married to a Wife of Thai nationality" omits the "OR" in the financial requirement and stipulates:

"Financial documentation:

- Bank statement and copy of bank account showing at least 400,000.- Baht deposit

- Employment evidence, work permit, and tax documentation showing an income of at least 40,000.- Baht."

Reading this rule, an applicant needs to show an account with 400,000 Baht deposit AND an income of at least 40,000 Baht. Nothing about the mix of eg. 200,000 Baht deposit and 20,000 Baht income.

But a NEW kind of Visa showed up which was never discssed before as far as I know and seems to be attractive.

Here are the details:

Application for further stay to spend the remainder of life in the Kingdom of Thailand

Required Documents

-Immigration form 7 (Tor Mor 7)

-Copy of passport

-4 cm. X 6 cm. Photograph

-1,900 baht application fee

-Financial Evidence:

-Bank account pass-book, bank statement

-Evidence showing reception of pension accompanied with Thai translation certified by the embassy or consulate of the country paying the pension

-Evidence presenting other sources of income or evidence of money transferred from overseas

-In cases of having dependents (husband / wife, children), the applicant must provide evidence indicating their relationship. Evidence must be translated into Thai and be certified by the embassy or consulate of the non-Thai citizens.

-Health Certificate for those who apply for further stay after Nov. 14, 2002.

-The officials reserve the rights to examine or ask for additional documents, if necessary

Applications Consideration

-A foreign national must be older than 50 years old.

-Not be a prohibit person.

-Financial documents state one of the following

-A deposite of 800,000 baht at least , or

-A minimum income of 65,000 baht a month , or

-A deposite pluses (monthly income x 12) not less than 800,000 baht.

-The Health Certificate must indicate that the applicant does not have the following serious conditions:

-Leprosy

-Turberculosis, TB

-Elephantiasis, Filariasis

-Drug addiction

-Alcoholism

-Syphilis

Noteุ

For more information, please call 0-2213-2556

This is not an application for a "retirement visa" which is stipulated further down the line but a totaly new kind of visa which grants the applicant the permission to stay "the rest of his live in the Kingdom" if it is approved.

This is also not a permanent residence Visa or an application for obtaining the Thai nationality which are described further down the line..

As I read and interprete this rule, applying for this visa needs only yo be done ONCE and if granted, entitles the applicant to reside in the "Kingdom for the rest of his life".

This would be GREAT and I would be applying "state pede" for this kind of Visa if this is true.

But as with all the Thai translations, I have my doubts.

Anyone here can confirm or deny my doubts?

Coalminer

[lopburi3]

1. Marriage is now family income only. The information on web site is old.

2. There is no such thing as retirement visa. What you see on the Immigration web site is not a lifetime visa. It is a one year extension of stay from a non immigrant visa entry. What you refer to as retirement is the same thing but done in advance at a Consulate in your home country.

So your reading is wrong and the operative word is deny your interpretation.

[retiredusn]

1. Marriage is now family income only. The information on web site is old.

2. There is no such thing as retirement visa. What you see on the Immigration web site is not a lifetime visa. It is a one year extension of stay from a non immigrant visa entry. What you refer to as retirement is the same thing but done in advance at a Consulate in your home country.

So your reading is wrong and the operative word is deny your interpretation.

lopburi, as is normal,,,you are 100% correct. I did a fast search "again" and his interpetation is way off...............Regards

[Mahout Angrit]

Yesterday, while browsing for information on the latest Visa rules for Thailand, I came to the link of the Thai Immigration office: http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/en/ba...p?page=service#

They are not the latest, the web site has not been updated, you should be reading Police Order No 606/2549

[kal147]

Lopburi wrote:

"1. Marriage is now family income only."

I examined the Police Order No. 606/2549 cited earlier in this thread, and in section 7.17(6) regarding aliens married to a Thai woman, it does provide that in lieu of the 40,000 THB/month requirement, a deposit of 400,000 THB in a Thai bank would satisfy the 'basis of consideration' for the Visa. So as written, marriage is not family income only.

Is my reading incorrect?

http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/2notice/rtp606EN.pdf

Edited May 27, 2007 by kal147

[calibanjr.]

Only "Visa To Spend The Remainder of My Life In Thailand?" for a farang is Thai citizenship, and even then I wouldn't the farm!

[lopburi3]

Lopburi wrote:

"1. Marriage is now family income only."

I examined the Police Order No. 606/2549 cited earlier in this thread, and in section 7.17(6) regarding aliens married to a Thai woman, it does provide that in lieu of the 40,000 THB/month requirement, a deposit of 400,000 THB in a Thai bank would satisfy the 'basis of consideration' for the Visa. So as written, marriage is not family income only.

Is my reading incorrect?

http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/2notice/rtp606EN.pdf

That quote applies to new applicants as the poster did not currently have such an extension of stay and the 400k is not available for anyone but those already in the system last year. New applicants are only allowed to apply with the 40k family income method.

[coalminer]

1. Marriage is now family income only. The information on web site is old.

Wrong!

Read the reply from Kal147

2. There is no such thing as retirement visa.

I dont know if it's a pre requisite to be pedantic to become a moderator in this forum, but one can read all over the Thai Immigration about a "Retirement Visa".

The Visa type "o" has many subtypes, and one of them is the "Retirement Visa", or type "o-a".

What you see on the Immigration web site is not a lifetime visa. It is a one year extension of stay from a non immigrant visa entry. What you refer to as retirement is the same thing but done in advance at a Consulate in your home country.

The Immigration website stipulates very clearly:

"Application for further stay to spend the remainder of life in the Kingdom of Thailand"

Spending the remainder of life in the Kingdom is not a one year extension and your interpretation is wrong.

Spending the remainder of life in the Kingdom is apply for this kind of Visa only once and left in peace till you die.

So your reading is wrong and the operative word is deny your interpretation.

If you say so ..........

[kal147]

Lopburi wrote:

"1. Marriage is now family income only."

I examined the Police Order No. 606/2549 cited earlier in this thread, and in section 7.17(6) regarding aliens married to a Thai woman, it does provide that in lieu of the 40,000 THB/month requirement, a deposit of 400,000 THB in a Thai bank would satisfy the 'basis of consideration' for the Visa. So as written, marriage is not family income only.

Is my reading incorrect?

http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/2notice/rtp606EN.pdf

That quote applies to new applicants as the poster did not currently have such an extension of stay and the 400k is not available for anyone but those already in the system last year. New applicants are only allowed to apply with the 40k family income method.

The Police Order No. 606/2549 Sec. 7.17(6) does not distinguish between new or old applicants(those already in the system). Where does Thai law distinguish between the two. The code section I cited, if controlling, supports my interpretation. Is there another law or code section that supercedes or clarifies the requirements per your interpretation?

[coalminer]

That quote applies to new applicants as the poster did not currently have such an extension of stay and the 400k is not available for anyone but those already in the system last year. New applicants are only allowed to apply with the 40k family income method.

I dont know where you get your "intellgence" from, but as a "super moderator" you are totaly way-off the path.

I ("the poster") am living in Thailand already 7 (seven) years with a "Thai wife" visa extension.

And as for as your reply goes, where do you fit the long time repeated "400,000 Baht deposit" OR "40,000 Baht income" OR a mix of both?

According to your reply, the 400,000 Baht deposit requirement is only valid to applicants already in the system.

All others have to show a 40K income.

[lopburi3]

except for aliens who

entered the Kingdom before

this Order came into force and

granted a permit to stay in the

Kingdom.

Above is the restriction - no new applications are allowed using the 400k bank deposit.

[kal147]

except for aliens who

entered the Kingdom before

this Order came into force and

granted a permit to stay in the

Kingdom.

Above is the restriction - no new applications are allowed using the 400k bank deposit.

Lopburi, in the Police Order, the above clause is preceeded by a comma. This clause you quoted qualifies the the first part of the sentence (the 40,000 BHT requirement). Therefore, it essentially states that applicants must meet the 40,000 BHT test unless they entered the Kingdom prior to the effective date of the Order.

By itself, this would support your interpretation.

However, the very next sentence of the Order clearly states that if an alien does not meet the income requirement that 400,000BHT in the bank will suffice.

Edited May 27, 2007 by kal147

[sbk]

Well coalminer, can I suggest that you go into Immigration and ask yourself about this visa for the remainder of your life and then let us all know what you find out?

I suspect you have misunderstood the translation as if there were such a thing it would have been discussed ad nauseum on this board by this point.

[kal147]

except for aliens who

entered the Kingdom before

this Order came into force and

granted a permit to stay in the

Kingdom.

Above is the restriction - no new applications are allowed using the 400k bank deposit.

Lopburi, in the Police Order, the above clause is preceeded by a comma. This clause you quoted qualifies the the first past of the sentence (the 40,000 BHT requirement). Therefore, it essentially states that applicants must meet the 40,000 BHT test unless they entered the Kingdom prior to the effective date of the Order.

By itself, this would support your interpretation.

However, the very next sentence of the Order clearly states that if an alien does not meet the income requirement that 400,000BHT in the bank will suffice.

Lopburi, to adopt your interpretation would render the entire second sentence (400,000BHT in bank) totally meaningless.

[lopburi3]

But it is not my interpretation - it is the way immigration acts. You do not have the 400k baht deposit option anymore unless you were in the system earlier. If you check the forum you will find many threads and reports to this effect.

[kal147]

But it is not my interpretation - it is the way immigration acts. You do not have the 400k baht deposit option anymore unless you were in the system earlier. If you check the forum you will find many threads and reports to this effect.

I know that Thailand acts weird many times, but it is very possible that immigration has it wrong. Or perhaps, some people in immigration have it wrong. The Order as written totally supports my interpretation ... or else immigration is essentially saying the language of the order providing for 400,000 in bank in lieu of income is meaningless ... and that those who drafted the Order went to the trouble of drafting a meaningless provision.

It wouldn't be the first time a law was written poorly, I believe this needs to be clarified by Thai authorities.

[sbk]

But it is not my interpretation - it is the way immigration acts. You do not have the 400k baht deposit option anymore unless you were in the system earlier. If you check the forum you will find many threads and reports to this effect.

I know that Thailand acts weird many times, but it is very possible that immigration has it wrong. Or perhaps, some people in immigration have it wrong. The Order as written totally supports my interpretation ... or else immigration is essentially saying the language of the order providing for 400,000 in bank in lieu of income is meaningless ... and that those who drafted the Order went to the trouble of drafting a meaningless provision.

It wouldn't be the first time a law was written poorly, I believe this needs to be clarified by Thai authorities.

Just curious if you have read the original order in the Thai language or are you going by what could very possibly be an incorrect English translation?

[kal147]

But it is not my interpretation - it is the way immigration acts. You do not have the 400k baht deposit option anymore unless you were in the system earlier. If you check the forum you will find many threads and reports to this effect.

I know that Thailand acts weird many times, but it is very possible that immigration has it wrong. Or perhaps, some people in immigration have it wrong. The Order as written totally supports my interpretation ... or else immigration is essentially saying the language of the order providing for 400,000 in bank in lieu of income is meaningless ... and that those who drafted the Order went to the trouble of drafting a meaningless provision.

It wouldn't be the first time a law was written poorly, I believe this needs to be clarified by Thai authorities.

Just curious if you have read the original order in the Thai language or are you going by what could very possibly be an incorrect English translation?

Very good point! I was most certainly reading the English translation which could very well be incorrect.

However, philosophically anyways, having the money in the bank is tantamount to have the monthly annuity. Actually, it's even better as the funds are 100% guaranteed as opposed to be an amount supposedly to be remitted and received during the year.

I understand Thailand can work in strange ways, I lived there for 2 years ... coming back in a few days. Why? Go figure! But, I think we have a good case here ... Lopburi's interpretation while it may be correct ... is absurd.

[tijnebijn]

Interesting indeed.Don't forget that every information on the internet is old.The Dutch consulate warns everybody for this,cause the rules change all the time,together with its interpretation of that.I even told the woman working at the consulate(2 weeks ago)that now you need to show 40k a month to get the extension for married visa.

She did not know.......you can imagine,even people working to give out visas hear everything to late,she complained about it even,and had a longer chat with her and she is afraid even more will change and what will be next?She was a very cooperative woman and was willing to share her fews......surprisingly.

In the past ,once I had an extension from my marriage visa,in that time you still had to show 200k,the year after they doubled it,which I did not know ,and after that I stay on multiples nonO.

If it is true that with 400k I can make an extension I would like to know.I do believe Lopburi though ,because he is the moderator here and reads all the problems people had in the past,so he is acting from experience,but ofcourse not everything is mentioned on TV .

I take the comments very seriously and me and I am sure may other members act on what they here on the forum,but what if some things are not exactly like how they seem to be?Am I going out for a multiple for nothing ,rather I could get an extension?Start to get confused a bit now.

[kal147]

I agree .... very interesting indeed. I don't doubt Lopburi at all ... it's immigration who may have it all wrong. I suspect in the coming years the rules will be clarified or changed entirely anyhow. Right now Thailand is in a state of transition ... many changes are sure to come.

[meadish_sweetball]

I will just chip in to say that as of 1 week ago, when I was in contact with CM immigration, the requirement for extension of stay is a combined income of 40,000 baht per month. The 400,000 in the bank option is not available for new applicants - i.e. Lopburi is correct to the best of my knowledge.

[cathyy]

We need to remember that we don't have any right to remain in Thailand for any length of time. We also need to remember that what the immigration laws or police orders are is far less relevant than what actual immigration officers want. Just as in the US, immigration officers have a great deal of personal discretion in the granting of visas. It doesn't mean they can grant visas to unqualified people; it does mean they can deny a visa to a person who is otherwise qualified.

[LivinLOS]

But it is not my interpretation - it is the way immigration acts. You do not have the 400k baht deposit option anymore unless you were in the system earlier. If you check the forum you will find many threads and reports to this effect.

I know that Thailand acts weird many times, but it is very possible that immigration has it wrong. Or perhaps, some people in immigration have it wrong. The Order as written totally supports my interpretation ... or else immigration is essentially saying the language of the order providing for 400,000 in bank in lieu of income is meaningless ... and that those who drafted the Order went to the trouble of drafting a meaningless provision.

It wouldn't be the first time a law was written poorly, I believe this needs to be clarified by Thai authorities.

It has been !!! and the clarification by those on the ground is clearly that its 40k per month if you were not previously in the system !!!

Very good point! I was most certainly reading the English translation which could very well be incorrect.

However, philosophically anyways, having the money in the bank is tantamount to have the monthly annuity. Actually, it's even better as the funds are 100% guaranteed as opposed to be an amount supposedly to be remitted and received during the year.

I understand Thailand can work in strange ways, I lived there for 2 years ... coming back in a few days. Why? Go figure! But, I think we have a good case here ... Lopburi's interpretation while it may be correct ... is absurd.

ha ha ha... And you think its the first time rules as written are not as implemented ??

Listen to lop.. hes right on this !!

[Naam]

But it is not my interpretation - it is the way immigration acts. You do not have the 400k baht deposit option anymore unless you were in the system earlier. If you check the forum you will find many threads and reports to this effect.

the trend is clearly towards "bring in the money and spend it!" and that's how it was meant from the very beginning. immigration officers had either no freaking idea or did what they still do nowadays, namely... poke their noses, judge and make arbitrary decisions.

in the near future all of us concerned will have to show that we brought in the required amount and spent it (as mentioned above). unfair to some, no concern whatever to others. but then... life is and was always a bitch.

[Mahout Angrit]

except for aliens who

entered the Kingdom before

this Order came into force and

granted a permit to stay in the

Kingdom.

Above is the restriction - no new applications are allowed using the 400k bank deposit.

....and if reports coming back to this forum are correct, those in the system will not have this option after October 2007. Better get that "Visa for Life" pretty soon!

[TerryLH]

I've never understood why people who have already made their mind up about something ask questions, and then argue about the answers if it's not the answer they want.

I sure hope that after a trip to immigration we get a report back so we'll all be put in our place.

Good luck

Too annoyed...

[natnuch]

Hi All,

This is one of the conditions for the 'thai-wife' visa:

"(1) The alien has obtained a temporary visa (NON-IM)"

Does the 28 day automatically issued visa when entering Thailand count as what is required?

Also, If I have a signed letter from the company I work for or if I have a work contract will this be sufficient to prove my income? As to date I have been receiving payment in cash.

Cheers!

Edited June 3, 2007 by lopburi3
use normal font - lopburi3

[lopburi3]

The 30 day entry without visa is not a non immigrant visa.

There is no "Thai-Wife" visa. The non immigrant O visa issued if you have a Thai wife is for family visits.

There is no requirement for income to receive a visa (these are issued by Consulates outside Thailand).

You can not be working legally in Thailand on a visa exempt entry, or without a non immigrant visa and a work permit so not sure what kind of employment you are talking about - but it sure would not be something to make points at Immigration if you mean in Thailand.

If you are married to a Thai and have family income of 40k or more per month (proven by tax receipts or income verification letter from your Embassy if from overseas) you can extend your stay in Thailand on a yearly basis. If you meet these conditions (and you are not working here) you might be able to convert your permitted to stay stamp into a non immigrant visa for the extension of stay at an Immigration office (extra 2,000 baht fee).

If you work in Thailand you have the choice of non immigrant B or O visa entry and extension for work at your nationality required earnings or family at the 40k figure. For most people the family method would be best.

[lopburi3]

Reading your past posts I find you are not in Thailand and plan to work here for someone outside the country on the QT. As you are still in OZ you might want to obtain a multi entry non immigrant O visa and not have to worry about immigration for the first year (only making 90 day border runs which can be done same day). If you want to request extension of stay perhaps the 500k in bank account to be with student would be the best as there would be no need for employment information. If you use the 40k income method it will be up to what your Embassy allows (believe they have you write a letter) and you should have further documentation such as contract if asked by immigration.

[natnuch]

Great - thanks very much for your help, I think I was over-complicating everything