Elderly Dane Found Murdered In His Home

[A_MIKE_U_LIKE]

bullet suicide" case

URGENT ACTION URGENT ACTION URGENT ACTION URGENT ACTION

ASIAN HUMAN RIGHTS COMMISSION – URGENT APPEAL PROGRAMME

24 June 2005

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UA-107-2005: THAILAND: Police lodge defamation charges against forensic scientist over "5 bullet suicide" case

THAILAND: Extrajudicial killing; Impunity; Criminal defamation; Challenges to the integrity of forensic science

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Dear friends,

The Asian Human Rights Commission (AHRC) is outraged that five Thai police officers have filed defamation complaints against a senior forensic scientist and government bureaucrat following the latter’s comments over an apparent extrajudicial killing which the police have maintained was a suicide. Although all evidence points to the fact that the police killed the victim, they have lodged the defamation complaints in order to 'protect their reputations'.

We ask that you please write to the Minister of Interior expressing your anger at the absurdity of these complaints and the need to withdraw them immediately. Please also voice your strong concern regarding the shameless excesses of power enjoyed by the Thai police, as evident in this case. If such abuses of power by the police are accepted now, then little hope can be held for the future integrity of the forensic profession and its collating of evidence in torture and murder cases.

Urgent Appeals Desk

Asian Human Rights Commission (AHRC)

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DETAILED INFORMATION:

On 21June 2005, five officers from the Bang Khunthien police station, in Bangkok, Thailand, filed defamation complaints against Justice Ministry deputy permanent secretary Mr Manit Suthaporn and the Central Institute of Forensic Science’s deputy director, Dr Porntip Rojanasun. The police officers have accused Dr Porntip and Mr Manit of making false statements regarding the police officers’ involvement in the death of Sunthorn Wongdao, during an interview on the iTV programme “Todrahat” on June 18.

Mr Sunthorn Wongdao was found dead in Bang Yai district, Nonthaburi province on May 21, after being surrounded by officers of the Bang Kunthien station, who claimed he had committed suicide before being apprehended. However, the CIFS concluded that neither the condition of the victim's body nor the crime scene suggested a suicide. In fact, the victim had four bullets through his lung and one through his head. The nature of the gunshot wounds suggests that another person fired the bullets at close range. Furthermore, the crime scene had allegedly been tampered with. The body of the victim appeared to have been turned over, and evidence organised to suggest a suicide.

Despite these facts, the Bang Kunthien police reportedly continue to maintain that the killing was a suicide. When Dr Porntip and Mr Manit appeared on iTV on June 18 to comment on the case, they simply countered this assertion by pointing to the facts. The Minister of Justice reportedly backed their shared opinion: he, it has been pointed out, has not been sued.

It is in response to the comments made Dr Porntip and Mr Manit that the five officers, including the superintendent of Bang Kunthien District Police Station, Police Colonel Thirisak Suriwong, have taken the step of filing defamation complaints. The other four officers are reported as being Pol. Capt. Pittaya Singjanusong, Pol. Capt. Pramote Chanbunkaew, Pol. Sgt-Maj. Bunyang Muangkrachang and Pol. Sgt. Sutham Thepraksapan. Pol. Col. Thirisak was reported to have said that the police had a right to protect their reputations.

ADDITIONAL COMMENTS

Thailand's antiquated defamation laws are commonly used by powerful persons and officials to silence dissent and intimidate human rights defenders. The AHRC has previously raised concerns over the case of Supinya Klangnarong, who is being sued by a corporation owned by the family of the prime minister (most recent update: UP-31-2005; see also: AS-38-2005).

In this case, the defamation case is a blatant attempt to intimidate a forensic scientist, and through her, others in her profession, who know a great deal more about investigation of a crime scene than the police. They speak to the resentment that the police have over the small number of independent agencies now operating in Thailand that are able to cast some light on the uncounted numbers of human rights violations they had been free to commit in earlier years. For further comments, see: AS-64-2005 and AS-65-2005.

SUGGESTED ACTION:

Please write to the Minister of Interior expressing your anger at the absurdity of these defamation complaints and the need to withdraw them immediately. Please also urge that a proper inquiry into the killing be conducted by the Department of Special Investigation under the Ministry of Justice.

Sample letter:

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Dear Pol. Gen. Chidchai

Re: Defamation case lodged against Dr Porntip Rojanasunan and Mr Manit Suthaporn by officers of Bang Kunthien police

I write to express my anger over the defamation complaints lodged against Dr Porntip Rojanasunan, deputy director of the Central Institute of Forensic Science (CIFA) and Mr Manit Suthaporn, deputy permanent secretary of the Ministry of Justice by officers from the Bang Kunthien District Police Station, Metropolitan Police Region 9.

The five officers in question are the superintendent of Bang Kunthien District Police Station, Police Colonel Thirisak Suriwong, and Pol. Capt. Pittaya Singjanusong, Pol. Capt. Pramote Chanbunkaew, Pol. Sgt-Maj. Bunyang Muangkrachang and Pol. Sgt. Sutham Thepraksapan.

You will be aware that the officers have accused Dr Porntip and Mr Manit of making false statements regarding the police officers’ involvement in the death of Sunthorn Wongdao, during an interview on the iTV programme “Todrahat” on June 18. After Dr Porntip and Mr Manit implied during the interview that the victim might have been extrajudicially killed the five police decided to lodge the complaints.

The defamation complaints are absurd and are a blatant attempt at intimidation. They demonstrate the excesses of power that the Royal Thai Police continue to wield and the level of impunity that they enjoy. If officers of the Royal Thai Police are permitted to contest or ignore the opinions of qualified forensic professionals, then what purpose do thorough forensic and criminal investigations serve? The actions by the police in this case must not be tolerated by the government. To do so would be to set a dangerous precedent for future investigations and police involvement in criminal cases.

I call on you to intervene immediately in this case. I ask that you ensure that the five officers withdraw their charges without delay and are subsequently reprimanded for their actions. Their superiors should also be held to account for tacitly approving of the complaints. This case gives your government a clear opportunity to declare its intolerance to such behaviour by the police and to other abuses of power that the police continue to display.

I also urge you to take the necessary steps that the killing of Mr Sunthorn be investigated properly by the Department of Special Investigation rather than the local or regional police.

I look to your intervention in this matter.

Yours sincerely,

This is from the link earlier in this Thread that one TV Reader had problems loading hope this helps

[Maigo6]

I committed myself to invest before I realised that Farangs are sub-human

Never mind John, but you should have walked around a city centre in England at closing time on a Friday night, why do have to come to Thailand to find out ?

[khunmarc]

She was later released.

Nice work Inspector Wallop.

See the result on CSI Chiang Mai !!!!!!!!

cant wait to see Khun Gree Som at work !!!!!!!!

probably was trained at the Clouseau academy!!!!!

[waza]

As much as I try to love this country and the people, and accept the Thai way of life, it is cases like this that get me fuming! As everyone has said so far how can they release the murderer when the neighbours heard her with the victim. They even heard what they were arguing about. This seems to be the normal Thai way of "It was only a Farang so his murder by a Thai is not that important".

If eventually the police are forced to act they will say that the murderer has left the village and they cannot find her. This happens far too many times! Why are Farangs treated as dirt in this country?

Chris

It might have something to do with economics. If the true numbers of farang murders were to be disclosed, and reported internationally, you can imagine the effect that would have on the highly lucrative tourist industry.

well maybe it will act as a catalyst to promote change in the Thai attitude to these matters

[Maigo6]

Yes.... "Thailand, hub of farang murders!"

I think your sentiments are that of many long term farang staying here... infuriates me too the way farang are treated by police...

But still.............they come, and stay, then moan and moan for the rest of their lives about the CHOICE they made!!!!

I don't see any Farangs being held in Thailand at gunpoint, just go to where you are happier, it ain't rocket science is it?

[johnwills]

Yes.... "Thailand, hub of farang murders!"

I think your sentiments are that of many long term farang staying here... infuriates me too the way farang are treated by police...

But still.............they come, and stay, then moan and moan for the rest of their lives about the CHOICE they made!!!!

I don't see any Farangs being held in Thailand at gunpoint, just go to where you are happier, it ain't rocket science is it?

You may not see "Farangs" being held at gun point, but many have invested everything they have here so they cannot go back.

[Maigo6]

You may not see "Farangs" being held at gun point, but many have invested everything they have here so they cannot go back.

.

[Maigo6]

Telling people to go home when more often than not Thailand is their adopted home is all too often the easy answer on this forum. Try something a bit more worth while. You know you can do it.

Ummm, ok, try this.................

Even though you are unhappy in Thailand, stay.

[Steely Dan]

Indeed, a farang being found dead and nud_e -feeds in to thoughts of debauchery. Did they find the man's clothes? ..there could have been forensic evidence of a struggle on the clothes (blood, hair, etc). The bloodied stick could be the woman's blood on it, if the man tried self-devense. I think the second most appalling aspict of this (after the murder itself), is allowing the woman to post bail. It's quite likely she'll flee. I hope Thai detectives use this scene to buck the generally-held belief that they're inept at investigating crime scenes.

Bail? Did the report actually state any bail was given? Maybe there was, if so how much and was the suspects passport retained? Of course the rose spectacles brigade would not have use even ask. Their answer is either 'if you don't like it here then leave', or 'many farang deserve what happens to them', or we somehow automatically presume the Thai guilty. Well it's not rocket science, let crimes be investigated properly and let justice be seem to be done or it is easy for a casual observer to equate the lacadaisical power centric way things work here to racism by omission.

[Siripon]

Saddening that there's no local or national coverage of this news.

Getting reports only from the other side of the world about news in Thailand's second largest city, Chiang Mai, is frustrating.

It was on the front page of the Thai tabloids yesterday.

[meibanfa]

The hackneyed "Love it or leave it." response is not only childish but is counterproductive to effecting social change in any society. Immigrants and tourists too have basic human rights, one of which is the right to be treated equitably and fairly in the justice system.

Amnetsy International, Human Rights Watch and other international organizations have urged reform in Thailand, just as TV members are doing in this forum.

So what is the appropriate responses to these organizations?

If you don't like it don't come to Thailand?

[meemiathai]

What a big bunch of racist farangs! Just see how much hatred there is towards the thais in some of the posts!

Don't you people feel ashamed of yourselves that you have no place to go and have to stay in a country you hate so much? I guess you guys don't feel welcomed anywhere you go! Oh yes you complain because you love the country!

And if you learn that they do the same in the UK to release a murder suspect on bail will you shut the fxxk up?

And you assume people are losers just because they are fat? What a bunch of stupid people!

I bet thai soldiers went into your countries and gun pointed you guys to come to thailand!

LEAVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[meemiathai]

The hackneyed "Love it or leave it." response is not only childish but is counterproductive to effecting social change in any society. Immigrants and tourists too have basic human rights, one of which is the right to be treated equitably and fairly in the justice system.

Amnetsy International, Human Rights Watch and other international organizations have urged reform in Thailand, just as TV members are doing in this forum.

So what is the appropriate responses to these organizations?

If you don't like it don't come to Thailand?

And your posts are productive? Not childish?

LEAVE!!!!!!!!!!!

[meibanfa]

The hackneyed "Love it or leave it." response is not only childish but is counterproductive to effecting social change in any society. Immigrants and tourists too have basic human rights, one of which is the right to be treated equitably and fairly in the justice system.

Amnetsy International, Human Rights Watch and other international organizations have urged reform in Thailand, just as TV members are doing in this forum.

So what is the appropriate responses to these organizations?

If you don't like it don't come to Thailand?

And your posts are productive? Not childish?

LEAVE!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh that was so clever and well thought out (on a four year-old's emotional level).

[highdiver]

My point, regardless of how stronlgy i may have made it, remains; she should not be free.

Bugger the whole 'face' thing... whoever said that is being daft. The fact remains that an old guy and a younger woman had a fight, on his property, he died, and she fled the scene.

Realy ??? how do you know that??

The facts as they stand at the moment are at best, shady. None of this is official and as far as I am aware, no concrete release has been issued regarding this. I am offering opinion,based on this thread. If you would prefer to wait until an official press release has been issued then i will add no further comments until that release is forthcoming. I should point out however, that if you would prefer i offer no opinion on the basis of info supplied in this thread, then you also should button your lip and add no comments. In other words, i am (clearly, obviously) commenting on this thread at this stage. Wuld you prefer i write WITHOUT PREJUDICE prior to each post?

Yes, it may have been an accident. She may have hit him in self defence and he wobbled around for a minute, sliped on the floor and hit his head. Even if that is the case - she should still be locked up while they investigate.

Realy?? so you know all the details allready and you are sure that she is involved??

If i know all the details, i would not have said 'may' have been an accident. If my christal ball wasnt buggered and in need of repair (Thai manufactured ball, they refused a refund or replacment), i would not have said 'may' have hit him. At what point in my post, is it apparent i claim to know all the details. Clearly, i am hypothosising. Get it pal? Subjective thinking based on the facts presented to us in this thread. Again, if you would rather wait untill all facts are available, then let us all stop posting on this subject. But then, it wouldnt be much of a forum, would it?

The fact remains that they had a fight, he died, she is now free. She should be behind bars while they investigate.

Really what fact remains?? did you see it? do you know for 100% she did it and she belongs behind bars?

What fact remains? I will tell you - clealry you need a gentle nudge - the guy is dead. If a naked corpse is not factual enough, i dont know what else will please you. The police brought her in for questioning and released her. If this is not a fact - then the reports on this forum are not true. I am giving the benefit of the doubt to the people who have reported this. Why be so anal? You can see the point i am trying to make? Hello? Mork calling Orson?

I can guarantee you now, if i had a fight with my Thai girfriend and she died, there would be no mitigating circumstances in the eyes of the MIB. No self defence argument would be accepted and indeed, no investigation. I would be fast tracked through court and spend 30 years in Bangkoks finest.

yes you would once they establish that you did it?

You have missed my point, again - yet i am pleased you have managed to construct a sentence without the precursary 'Really?'. Well done pal. If the police turned up at my house and found a dead Mrs StickKettleOn, only to be told by the woman next door that they could hear us fighting prior to her death, there would be nowt to establish; i would be bunged in the back of a meat wagon and transported to the local prison, held, and almost certainly found guilty. And i am not being cynical. I dont know how long you have lived in Thailand buddy but 'establishing evidence' is way down the list from 'establishing motive'. The motive, sadly, is often left to the creative genuis of the investigating officers. This has been shown time and time again in the good old land of smiles and no, i will not research examples for you.

I have still yet to read a valid argument from any poster as to why she has been released so soon.

just to remid you about my earlier point of making assumptions accusations and so forth.

this is from the article that started this debate.

The police suspects that the Dane was murdered by the girl with whom he was fighting. Then he was hit by the stick and he fell on the ground, hit the floor with his head which caused his death. The woman then tried to find the car's key but couldn't find it so she ran away.

so they only suspected.

Lol - picture the scene. 1 X dead naked guy in pool of blood. 1 X bloody stick. 1 x screaming argument. 1 x confrontational Thai woman running away from the scene. What on earth else are they going to 'suspect'? Regardless, you say ONLY suspect? ONLY? If she was ONLY susspected of murder for petes sake, why on earth is she not sitting in the cells on remand, while they compile evidence? Only? Jeez....

The investigation team has collected all the finger prints as evidence and the forensic confirms that the Dane did not die by natural cause. But the body needs to be examined in more details to determine if he was murdered or died by hitting the floor.

they colected the evidence and are now evaluating and witing for results.

Fine. Thats exactly what they should be doing. While the chief suspect is probably in Lao with her feet up, watching Channel 7 drama's, however.

The police was able to bring in Anong for questioning. She denies any involvcement in the death of her ex-husband. She was later released while the police awaits the forensic report in order to be able to to make an arrest based on solid evidence.

so they brought her in for quetioning and as they did not have substanial eviddence to detain her or arrest her they let her go. this is common practice even in the Wester countries you either charge the suspect or you let them go..

You are wrong. What you are suggesting is that western countrys require substantial forensic evidence in order to detain a suspect. That is incorrect, and you are agreeing with this in principal as it backs up your rather hippy point of view - the point of view that this woman should be allowed to roam free. The police have easily enough evidence to detain while they await forensic evidence. She was present at his death, after a fight in which a blood soaked walking stick was left at the place of death. She ran away. Please enlighten me High Diver - what possible further evidence would you consider substantial, in order to detain while they investigate?

ing the original post again. and see through out the thread how many poster have made groundless accusations and baseless judgements.

In your opinion. The judments are based on the info supplied so far - so they are by no means baseless. I suggest you try reading the thread again and digesting without the engrained need to 'stick up' for your Thai brethren when you assume, wrongly, they are being attacked for little reason. People like you sir, assume we are Thai bashing just for the sake of Thai bashing. Its not a past-time created by bitter ex-pats you know - its an observation of the complete lack of decency and logic in cases like this. Dead guy, ex-gf, fight, bloody stick, fled scene.... logic would ensure this person is detained, pending investigation. So we have lcak of logic amongst detectives (last time i looked, logi was a pre-requisite for becoming a detective) or alternativley, dubious reasons for releasing her so soon based on the ferang factor. Either way, it sucks.

A few months ago there was a horrible attack on a Thai woman in Samui. after the first press release that said the police suspected the former boyfriend, many Thai Visa members made a realy long thread of posts flaming remarks about the police and about the former boyfriend. they viciously posted groundless accusations and baseless judgements. some even went as far as finding the guy guilty and debating how many years sentence he should get.

After the police concluded the investigation it was found to be a construction worker that did it and that the former boyfriend had nothing to do with it.

how many poststers that accused this guy and the police came back and posted an appollogy or a regret??? ZERO!!!

Either way - its the bloody police again! They had no right to announce to the world so casualy that the ex-bf killed the little boy - or at least suspected. Unwittingly, you have just answerd my point for me; the police are bloody useless. I truly wish you would see my point here. My point is THEY SHOULD HAVE DETAINED HER WHILE THEY INVESTIGATED.

you would think they will learn something.

the Thais having a culture of "face saving" take mesures to aviod accusing anyone unless they have solid evidence.

I truely hope that some of the members will learn from this culture.

You seem to lack the true values of face saving. This crazy, infentile notion of 'saving face' works both ways. Have you considered that now they have released the prime suspect, they will possibly not want to 'loose face' by admiting they should not have let her go, if and when they determine she did it? Knowing Thai coppers - that is a genuine notion to consider. "Bugger. Turns out it was her after all. Ummm. We should have detained her while we investigated - now we will loose face for admiting it was her, after all"

Wake up High Diver. I appreciate living here also and take the rough with the smoothe. But i reserver my right to complain about it.

I to reseve my right to complain yet I do so with out calling you names or you personally smearing you on this forum.

I have gone over your remarks and found them intresting alltough you did change a few things from your initial post.

The facts remain the same.. your assumptions based on the original post were baseless and your continous bashing of assumption against the girl and the police and even me personally has proven my point. posts on this thread are passing judgment and critising before the full facts are known.

[Johpa]

The hackneyed "Love it or leave it." response is not only childish but is counterproductive to effecting social change in any society. Immigrants and tourists too have basic human rights, one of which is the right to be treated equitably and fairly in the justice system.

Amnetsy International, Human Rights Watch and other international organizations have urged reform in Thailand, just as TV members are doing in this forum.

So what is the appropriate responses to these organizations?

If you don't like it don't come to Thailand?

Yes, the appropriate response is indeed that if you can't accept that Thailand is not a "modernized" society that took part in the late 18th century "enlightenment" movement and that Thailand does not share the same shared historical development of "legality" as does the "west" then perhaps Thailand is not for you. I mean it is great for you as long as things are going along smoothly, but you must take into consideration what is going to be the likely outcome if the doggy doo doo hits the fan.

Immigrants and tourists do have the same basic rights as do the Thais and are are treated no differently than are the Thais within the Thai justice system. And if you are a tourist or pensioner living in Thailand and you do not have a phuu yai to represent your interests within the system then your interests will not be represented. At least most western tourists and ex-pats have sufficient funds to hire a lawyer as a temporary phuu yai except when post-mortem when even that is no longer an option. And I daresay, unless you are a celebrity, don't expect your local embassy in Bangkok to act as your phuu yai, not even upon your death.

[dude007]

And I was thinking about retiring here for my old days!!! Getting frightened although I have my farang wife (still the first that I married) with me. Nice country to live where we truly feel to be respected and well treated.

What a sad end for this farang...

Someone saw already the new regulations for obtaining the multiple re-entry visa "B", starting from May 2007?

[andyc2006]

Saddening that there's no local or national coverage of this news.

funny, i was just thinking the opposite: "why does every farang murdered in thailand merit headlines on thaivisa?"

plenty of thais are murdered in thailand each day, but nobody screams for their justice.

plenty of farangs are murdered outside thailand each day, yet nobody thinks each of those needs "national coverage" in other countries.

farangs in thailand... for some reason people think they're special.

[meibanfa]

And I was thinking about retiring here for my old days!!! Getting frightened although I have my farang wife (still the first that I married) with me. Nice country to live where we truly feel to be respected and well treated.

What a sad end for this farang...

Someone saw already the new regulations for obtaining the multiple re-entry visa "B", starting from May 2007?

Yes is was indeed a sad end for that farang, and he no longer has the ability to either hire a lawyer or to leave. The jury is still out on whether he gets postmortem justice or not.

As for me, I am going to call it a night because many of the posters are becoming increasingly belligerent. Since alcohol cuncumption usually increases at night, wonder if that has anything to do with it?

RIP, Paul During.

[stepenwolf1958]

TO BE CLEAR...HIS MISTAKE...IT IS JUST UNBELIEVABLE WHAT WE(FARANGS)EXPECTING HERE FROM THAIS(WOMEN BUT ALSO MEN)...OBVIOUSLY,THAT WAS ORGANIZED CRIME,MURDER...NOT FIRST TIME THINGS AS THIS HAPPENED...SO-WHEN WE WILL LEARN?WE DONT HAVE RIGHT ON ANY PROPERTY HERE,MOST OF THAI WOMEN KNOW THAT WELL AND ALL WILL BE ON HER NAME,EVEN HOUSE...IN OUR STUPIDITY AND VANITY,THINKING THAT WE ARE SOME KIND OF "PRINC CHARMING"HERE SO DOUBLE YOUNGER WOMAN :FALL IN LOVE" SO WE SHOW HOW NUCH WE ARE STUPID AND AROGANT SO WE THINK THAT WE ARE REALLY GOOD,CHARMING,SO THEY CAN NOT RESIST...WE ARE VICTIMIZED HERE,WE ARE SO VULNERABLE IN OUR VANITY AND IT IS SO EASY FOR ANY OF THEM TO MAKE A TRAP...DEPEND WHAT WAY SHE WILL DO THAT AND HOW MUCH FAST...BUT SHE WILL DO THAT FOR SURE...WHEN WE WILL STOP TO HAVE ANY ILUSSION ABOUT OUR ROLE HERE????HOW MANY TIMES SOMEONE SHOULD TO BE KILLED SO WE WILL GET IT WHAT IS GOING ON...OUR FEELINGS AND GOOD INTENTIONS ABOUT THEM NAKING US TO BE SO BLIND...AND THEY HAVE SO MANY SKILLS TO SPIN OUR BRAINS(WE ALL KNOW HOW THEY ARE DOING IT)...BUT ALWAYS SOMEWHERE IN OUR MIND IS:THAT WILL NOT HAPPEN TO ME...WHO'S NEXT,PLEASE?

GEEEEEEZZZZZZ....WHAT A FOOLS WE ARE...AND,IF SOMEONE DON'T BELIEVE IN THIS-I WOULD LIKE THAT ONE TO TRY TO SHOW AS HE HAVE NO MONEY,ANY INCOME HERE,SO THAT ONE WOULD SEE HOW FAST HIS SUGAR CANE WILL DISSAPEAR,MAYBE TO FIRST FARANG SHE SEE...REALLY STUPID WE ARE HERE...

[stepenwolf1958]

Tragic.

AGREE...I AM SURPRISED HE IS NOT A JUMPER...AGAIN DOGGY MURDERS...

[byeth]

My experience here was totally negative, nothing went right. I helped people (Thais) and I got back arrogance and was scorned and cheated. Actually I was lied to and cheated in every turn. I can't wait to get out of here. Lost enough money and time, no more Thailand for me. I put a lot of weight on correctness (unfortunately I do) and this doesn't exist here. If they are not scared they will never respect you. It's the feeling of fear that underlines relations and I find this extremely saddening. Personally I dislike any type of relating based on fear, it is inhuman

[andyc2006]

plenty of thais are murdered in thailand each day, but nobody screams for their justice.

If you want to read about Thais being murdered buy the Thai language papers or watch the Thai news.

And many of these cases have made headlines here too.

funny, i was just thinking the opposite: "why does every farang murdered in thailand merit headlines on thaivisa?"

I thought that was pretty obvious. Because this is an English language forum for visitors and expats to Thailand perhaps!

plenty of farangs are murdered outside thailand each day, yet nobody thinks each of those needs "national coverage" in other countries.

Disagree, visit forums similar to this for any other country and you'll find similar coverage.

i have no interest in reading about murders. most murder stories, thai, farang, or whatever, should be left to the tabloids, where the rubber-neckers can gawk and speculate about them.

i didn't realize that reading a forum in English meant that i should consider farang murders in thailand to be of more importance than any other murder.

they're all tragedies, but very few of them meet the criteria for "news." sadly, reporting on a murder is equivalent to reporting on the sun rising and setting.

signing out of this topic.

[stepenwolf1958]

Let the police to their work and try to solve this to the best of their thai-abilities

EXACTLY THAT MAKES ME WORRY...WAY THEY EVER DOING IT...ABILITY?WHAT KIND?

[EmptyMind]

As much as I try to love this country and the people, and accept the Thai way of life, it is cases like this that get me fuming! As everyone has said so far how can they release the murderer when the neighbours heard her with the victim. They even heard what they were arguing about. This seems to be the normal Thai way of "It was only a Farang so his murder by a Thai is not that important".

If eventually the police are forced to act they will say that the murderer has left the village and they cannot find her. This happens far too many times! Why are Farangs treated as dirt in this country?

Chris

I am a relative newcomer to Thailand, unfortunately I committed myself to invest before I realised that Farangs are sub-human, and thais are human. This seems to be the view of a considerable number those in power , at quite a few levels. I have , however met an awful lot of educated and uneducated, but not influential, thais who wonder where the country is going and why Farangs are treated in such a digusting way. It is naked, in your face, racialism . A parallel with Medieval Europe can be seen. Enough said in case I get my visa revoked. I wonder what would happen if the EU , US , Australia & New Zealand had the balls to offer reciprical treatment to Thai citizens, re property, visa's, human rights etc. It is difficult to write exactly what I think, and probably what many others think, in case I breach the new laws

2 comments that made me laugh with my comments added :-

"I am a relative newcomer to Thailand, unfortunately I committed myself to invest before I......." --------------------- You will learn as time goes by !

"It is naked, in your face, racialism" --------------------- Have you not been to the zoo yet and been charged double because of the colour of your skin ?

"Enough said in case I get my visa revoked" --------------------- This is a forum, Not the Thai investigation squad.

Funny how many kids get on here.

[byeth]

I have one thing to say to all those who take the line 'leave if you don't like it': did you ever consider to leave yourselves from this forum if you don't like what people say? After all it is supposed to serve the expatriate community and there is one rule I think everybody else will agree to, "I may disagree with what you say but I will defend your right to say it". You people do not give any rights to anyone who disagrees with you. You want them to leave, no discussion. This reminds me something... from about 60-70 years ago it must have been... Please educate yourselves and re-think this attitude. Nough said

[EmptyMind]

What a big bunch of racist farangs! Just see how much hatred there is towards the thais in some of the posts!

Don't you people feel ashamed of yourselves that you have no place to go and have to stay in a country you hate so much? I guess you guys don't feel welcomed anywhere you go! Oh yes you complain because you love the country!

And if you learn that they do the same in the UK to release a murder suspect on bail will you shut the fxxk up?

And you assume people are losers just because they are fat? What a bunch of stupid people!

I bet thai soldiers went into your countries and gun pointed you guys to come to thailand!

LEAVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Racist ? We are Racist, ok

So if we are racist, Tell me why I am charged double because of the colour of my skin ? Tell me why every DVD seller thinks I want a "Sexy DVD" just because of the colour of my skin ? Tell me why I can't walk in your city without girls thinking I want a "Sexy Time" ? Tell me why Taxis etc want to rob me by hiking their fares because of the colour of my skin ?

In Europe, If we called every Thai girl we saw a "prostitute" we would be arrested !

Think before you speak and go totally off topic.

(I thought this forum was mainly based at what you rudely call "farangs", you have probably never been to the countries that you mention and probably never will. Is it fair for us to call you "money sponges" if you call us "farangs" ? .... Off topic I know but this guy really annoyed me)

meemiathai - You should be banned from this site by the admins, you are rude and racist in all of your posts !

I have probably paid more Tax here to your so called Government in the last 4 years than you will probably ever pay in the whole of your life. Don't be so fast to insult those who bring much needed money to your Country !

Edited May 27, 2007 by EmptyMind

[MA1]

A death or homicide is a complex investigation, not an instant finger pointing "they did it". Television has distorted the time frame for completion of testing and evidence processing. There where finger prints collected, those have to be classified (if proper prints where available) and compared to known subjects that had access to the house and in an automated fingerprint data base for previosuly arrested subjects. There may be DNA and trace evidence collected that may need labratory analysis. These all take time. As for his injuries, the nose may have been broken when he hit the ground or by another object (cane, a fist, ?). I too have my doubts about certain police officers/detectives in this wonderful country, but what the paper reports and the professionalism of the law enforcement agency must not be confused as the same. There may be more physical evidence collected that is being processed, the beedroom door and lock....The blood trail inside the house. It maybe someone other than the ex, possible the current girlfriend, or someone else who had a grudge with the late Mr. During. Give our Thai friends time to conduct an investigation, we would do that for Scotland Yard or any law enforcement agency. Short of a confession, wait before you cast your stones.

This photo is the portrait of Paul During

taken from his Thai drivers license.

71 Year Old Dane Murdered in Chiangmai

CHIANG MAI: -- A 71 year old Danish resident of Chiang Mai in Northern Thailand, Paul During, was on 25 May 2007 found murdered in his home.

The Dane was found by the neighbours who earlier in the day had heard him fight with a woman, possibly a former girlfriend who had apparantly come back to ask for a car, he had bought in her name.

The body of the Dane was found in his one story house in Tatan south of the city centre near the Ping River which he had rented for the past three years.

He was found naked near the door to the terrace with a broken nose and the back of his neck was swollen. There was sign of blood in the house an there was blood and hair on a walking stick, which the police has taken as evidence.

Police Officer Tennik Jansee from ChangPeuk police station in Chaingmai investigated the murdered said that there was also a hole in the door of the Dane's bedroom and the keyhole was damaged.

The Nissan pick-up truck was found parked in the garage unlock, the cabinet in the front of the car was open. The police checked the license and the car belongs to Anong Chaiyawut, 52 years from Chiangmai.

According to neighbors the Dane has been living in this house for about three years with Anong and bought her the car. Later, Anong broke up with him and move in with another foreigner. After that, the Dane brought a woman named .June to live in the house with him. Before the incident, June had gone back to visit her birthplace and it was during her absence, that Anong came by and asked for the keys to the car. But the Dane refused to give it to her and they could hear they had a fight about this before there was suddenly silence.

The neighbor found it strange and went in to see and found the Dane lying naked on the floor, dead.

The police suspects that the Dane was murdered by the girl with whom he was fighting. Then he was hit by the stick and he fell on the ground, hit the floor with his head which caused his death. The woman then tried to find the car's key but couldn't find it so she ran away.

The investigation team has collected all the finger prints as evidence and the forensic confirms that the Dane did not die by natural cause. But the body needs to be examined in more details to determine if he was murdered or died by hitting the floor.

The police was able to bring in Anong for questioning. She denies any involvcement in the death of her ex-husband. She was later released while the police awaits the forensic report in order to be able to to make an arrest based on solid evidence.

- Scandasia 2007-05-26

[EmptyMind]

i have no interest in reading about murders.

Yet you have read this and post extensively on this thread! Weird.

i didn't realize that reading a forum in English meant that i should consider farang murders in thailand to be of more importance than any other murder.

This forum is primarily aimed at foreigners visiting and living in Thailand I believe, not Thais. As I stated before, there is plenty of media available for you to read about Thai murders. No one is arguing that foreign murders are more important than Thai murders (nice failed attempt at a strawman there).

Same here, I also thought that this was for foreigners visiting and living in Thailand. Now you might start to realise why their own country has to treat them like children and monitor thier newspapers and internet. They just can't seem to understand that it's 2007, not 1945.

I thought that this was a forum, where like others, I can find information. I don't post much but if I had a question then yes, I would post it here. If I thought I could help with a post I would post an answer but usually I can't so I keep my mouth shut.

The last thing I would do is to reply to a post about someones death with such racist and rude comments that I have seen here, 80% of which are from certain Thai people simply telling us to "go home"

And yes I do edit a lot because I make a lot of typos thanks to the crappy KB I was sold in P Plaza. Will I get a refund ? Will I hel_l ..... This is Thailand where money talks and customer service is like being cut off from UBC after being on hold for an hour and eventually getting brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. I sometimes wonder if you actually press "For English Please Press 9 " If you are put into an automatic system that will cut you off after 90 seconds regardless of what you want to talk about ....... Thats totally off topic but amusing.

Edited May 27, 2007 by EmptyMind

[uk_falang]

EVERYBODY IS EQUAL !!

...only some are more equal than others

but part of the problem is that in europe we had the opportunity to see (and especially learn from) what racism can bring and also from the mentality 'the stronger gets his way'. apparently in this part of the world they do not share the same thinking. it seems to me that thai society is based on the value of power and not so much of equality

Racism exists everywhere even though people may have learned from it in their respective country. It is unfortunate. Society everywhere is "based on the value of power" but shows its ugly head in hidden or different forms. You have your rich and poor. You have core values of your country that makes it 'civilized'. Yet, people still suffer from the corrupt elected officials and the criminals that exist everywhere. Politicians in the States are suppose to be public servants for the people, yet they live in Mansions, high price condos and live among the rich, not the poor or the people in need that they are suppose to be helping as well. There is no equality anywhere...