37 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Why?  There is plenty of access to alternatives to Pfizer.   Perhaps you're one of those who wrongly assumed that the US's donation was specifically to vaccinate Americans.

I take the advice of my Cardiologist.

6 minutes ago, wwest5829 said:

44 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Why?  There is plenty of access to alternatives to Pfizer.   Perhaps you're one of those who wrongly assumed that the US's donation was specifically to vaccinate Americans.

I take the advice of my Cardiologist.

Your cardiologist advised you that no vaccination at all during a Covid pandemic was better than anything apart from Pfizer?   Yeah, right, of course he did.

On 8/17/2021 at 4:18 PM, wwest5829 said:

I have a growing objection as a retired American full-time resident, at age 74 with heart issues at not having access to get vaccinated as part of the US Pfizer donation.

Did you register with any of the multiple registration opportunities?

 

These were all widely discussed here on this forum.

4 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Your cardiologist advised you that no vaccination at all during a Covid pandemic was better than anything apart from Pfizer?   Yeah, right, of course he did.

 

4 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Your cardiologist advised you that no vaccination at all during a Covid pandemic was better than anything apart from Pfizer?   Yeah, right, of course he did.

Moderna or Pfizer was recommended.

1 hour ago, transam said:

Sunbeam, I had no say in Tuberculosis, Polio, Smallpox, measles, but I did in Tetanus, Herpes and a few others. And guess what, I am in my eighth decade, protected by those jabs.

Tell me, what jabs have you had..?

Who is ‘Sunbeam’. If you want to make a contest out of who has had the most jabs, I guess you win! (Shrug). 
 

I had ONE jab back in elementary school, I don’t recall what for, maybe polio. I only ever saw one kid in my lifetime that had it. So, I’m pretty sure I didn’t need that one either. 
 

I’m in my 7th decade and I’ve never felt better. In fact, I feel better and am healthier than I was 20 years ago. 
 

So, I guess you win the old age contest, too…WHOOPY for you!

Edited August 23, 20215 yr by DBath

2 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Did you register with any of the multiple registration opportunities?

 

These were all widely discussed here on this forum.

Yes, Therein was my frustration. Registered at Expatvac on advice sent out by the US Consulate. Got an email message saying that my registration was successful. Then I heard nothing … no number, no appointment. Evidently it did not make it through cyberspace. Within the last two hours, with the assistance of my Thai wife talking to the Chiang Mai health people, I successfully registered and this time was given an immediate number but was told I would need to wait on the next batch of the Pfizer vaccine coming to Chiang Mai. So … progress today and hoping well for all …

5 minutes ago, DBath said:

Who is ‘Sunbeam’. If you want to make a contest out of who has had the most jabs, I guess you win! (Shrug). 
 

I had ONE jab back in elementary school, I don’t recall what for, maybe polio. I only ever saw one kid in my lifetime that had it. So, I’m pretty sure I didn’t need that one either. 
 

I’m in my 7th decade and I’ve never felt better. In fact, I feel better and am healthier than I was 20 years ago. 
 

So, I guess you win the old age contest, too…WHOOPY for you!

Happy for your good health. If you were an American kid the DPT shot would have been administered before you had a memory. 1950’s in Southern New Jersey we were lined up and got both the Sabine and Salk vaccines. Applied for a college in North Carolina that required a Typhoid/Paratyphoid shot … severe reaction. Did not go to that college! Getting ready for international travel, Yellow Fever shot. Only ever took one flu shot … felt like I had the flu so passed on any future shots of that. Yeah, old enough to have been exposed to a number of virus but … getting in line for Pfizer shot. Appears that it will be looked for if I want to travel internationally sometime in the next two years.

4 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

OK.. not quite the stone ages - but you are comparing a period of affluence to a major post war period of depression.

 

Quality of living is much higher now, and higher for those with a car - that is quite simple. 

 

But I do agree we don’t need one. We don’t need holidays, or to eat exotic fruit and imported foods. 

There is a lot we don’t ’need’ but life would not be as enjoyable without. 

 

 

IF your argument is still that we don’t ’need vaccines’ because we don’t need cars and people also die in car accidents - the argument is extremely flawed, the two are incomparable.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

quote

IF your argument is still that we don’t ’need vaccines’ because we don’t need cars and people also die in car accidents - the argument is extremely flawed, the two are incomparable.

end quote

 

I don't recollect saying that we don't "need" vaccines, and I've had all the vaccines going, so not anti vax on principle.

To be honest I don't even remember why I've gone off topic about cars, so 'nuff said about that.

IMO it's got a bit boring now with a circular argument going on, so I might just give this thread a miss ( if I remember to do so next time I log on- memory isn't the best any more ) in future.

7 hours ago, DBath said:

You said, “There’s plenty of jobs, go work with others who don’t want to be vaccinated.” And there are companies threatening people with termination for not vaccinating. How is that NOT forcing the issue?

 

I’m saying, that’s not a practical solution. You are in effect saying it’s okay to threaten those refusing vaccination with the loss of their job, of supporting themselves and their family. And if they don’t like it to simply go find another job. 

Im ok with employees not taking a shot if they accept that sick days from covid are not paid for. Why should a company bear the risk for your beliefs. Why don't you accept that your choice of no vax has consequences  ? You seem to only want it your way.

33 minutes ago, wwest5829 said:

Yes, Therein was my frustration. Registered at Expatvac on advice sent out by the US Consulate. Got an email message saying that my registration was successful. Then I heard nothing … no number, no appointment. Evidently it did not make it through cyberspace. Within the last two hours, with the assistance of my Thai wife talking to the Chiang Mai health people, I successfully registered and this time was given an immediate number but was told I would need to wait on the next batch of the Pfizer vaccine coming to Chiang Mai. So … progress today and hoping well for all …

Good to hear you are at last in the line.

 

It’s been a frustrating journey I know.

16 minutes ago, robblok said:

Im ok with employees not taking a shot if they accept that sick days from covid are not paid for. Why should a company bear the risk for your beliefs. Why don't you accept that your choice of no vax has consequences  ? You seem to only want it your way.

I have no problem with employees not being paid for covid sick days nor do I expect companies to bear that risk. What I DO have a problem with is employees being forced to get vaccinated or be terminated, PERIOD. 
 

I’m not sure where you’re coming up with that, unless you’re merely looking to start an argument or baiting me.

25 minutes ago, robblok said:

Im ok with employees not taking a shot if they accept that sick days from covid are not paid for. Why should a company bear the risk for your beliefs. Why don't you accept that your choice of no vax has consequences  ? You seem to only want it your way.

Sick days are a given, has zero to do with why you're sick.  Sort of like if I don't take a flu shot and I catch the flu.

6 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I'm waiting to see how juries will rule when the inevitable court cases start. I expect companies to lose big time, but I could be wrong.

Someone forced to use an unapproved vaccine by their company could claim a lot of compensation it they suffered damaging side effects.

Edited August 23, 20215 yr by BritManToo

56 minutes ago, robblok said:

Im ok with employees not taking a shot if they accept that sick days from covid are not paid for. Why should a company bear the risk for your beliefs. Why don't you accept that your choice of no vax has consequences  ? You seem to only want it your way.

That's an end to maternity leave then.

7 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Someone forced to use an unapproved vaccine by their company could claim a lot of compensation it they suffered damaging side effects.

‘Forced’?

8 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

That's an end to maternity leave then.

Pregnancy is a protected class.

1 hour ago, DBath said:

What I DO have a problem with is employees being forced to get vaccinated or be terminated, PERIOD. 

What about the rights of a company ?

 

Does it not also have the right to protect itself? if employees refuse to take vaccine and there is a Covid-19 outbreak that will be extremely costly for the company if it has to shut down.

 

This: A company may be within its rights to set out within its health and safety policy that employees have taken specific vaccinations. 

 

 

My Son’s vaccination records were required at by the medical team at his school before being admitted. 

I’m sure if there were some missing vaccinations we would have been asked to have them.

This is for the protection of the others students, I’m perfectly happy with that. 

 

I have had to comply with my company's HSE regulations and comply with quarantine, vaccinations and PCR Testing - it is now part of the job, I don’t mind that if it means I can continue working. 

 

Of course, refusal to get vaccinated would mean immediate termination - I’m ok with that (the vaccinations being offered were Pfizer / Moderna).

 

 

 

 

 

 

37 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

That's an end to maternity leave then.

We are not all from the UK where I come from the government supports businesses when they have a woman on maternity leave. So the business owner does not bear the risk.

 

On a side note maybe the UK does too but you don't know it. I know for a fact that in the Netherlands the government helps as i seen the money deposited to business owners.

1 hour ago, EVENKEEL said:

Sick days are a given, has zero to do with why you're sick.  Sort of like if I don't take a flu shot and I catch the flu.

in this case we are talking about a pandemic where when an employee is sick others need to be quarantined business shut down so its a different thing. But not denying you got a point.

3 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Why won't you have Sinovac, some protection is better than no protection, isn't it?

I'm booked for Pfeizer next month and also Moderna.

 

Your a foreigner. Did you try to book for Pfeizer.  Also Astra Zeneca is available.

 

I don't want Sinovac when theres better and more effective vaccines available.

 

That said I guess Sinovac is better than nothing.  Sinovac isn't even readily available in Issan.

 

Its a mess.

4 hours ago, DBath said:

As long as your acquaintance's actions don't harm you or anyone else, then I see no reason why you should care, other than you might be worried about them and would feel bad if something happened to them, because the things you mention are things they have a right to choose. If on the other hand you're concerned they might pass covid to you, it's your choice to 'cut the chord' or not with them. 

 

I ride motorcycles and I have for most of my life, since I was a young boy. I've put over 200,000 miles on various kinds of motorcycles - way more than most people. And except where it was illegal, I opted to not wear a helmet. You can call me whatever you want, but that was - and still is - my choice. I never had an accident and I'm pretty sure it was more than just luck that I didn't. People use to ask me, "Why do you ride without a helmet?" and my response was always the same, "Because I can."  I also never liked pulling up to a stop light and having the heat from the engine radiate off the pavement and make the inside feel like an oven. I've always been careful and tactical when I ride and have never been reckless (some of the 'wallflowers' on here will surely dislike that statement).

 

Some people have balls the size of boulders... "Sometimes you beat the bear and sometimes the bear gets you". I've never been one for the sheltered or coddled life that some people here try to project on a regular basis; and I detest crowd-followers.

 

As far as covid I know it's real, 100%.  If I had underlying conditions, I would probably move closer to the front of the jab line. Do I take covid lightly? Nope.  Do I go near or shake hands with people I'm not intimately familiar with? Nope.  Do I wear a mask? Yup.  Do I eat healthy and live a healthy lifestyle? Yup.  Do I have underlying conditions? Nope. Do I wash my hands frequently and use sanitizer? Yup. I rarely go out and when I do, I pose no risk to anyone else and keep my distance.  And the risk to me is minimal, IMO. I don't even remember the last time I had a cold - or the flu for that matter.

 

If I were to have to make a hard choice and get vaccinated, it wouldn't be that hard of a decision, if it's something I were forced to do, I would. If and when I see a good reason (one that suits me), I will get in line. 

 

Until then, I'm going to stay right where I am.

Two very good friends lost in the last 4 years 

 

One was a walking time bomb with bad habits. By the way another lady from our company I don't know well was one of those super healthy types who works out constantly with strict diet and even appeared in regional Mrs. Fitness model contests. A super missus with washboard abs. Both collapsed from massive strokes and were dead within a few days nothing could be done. My other buddy was on a planned ride with three or four other guys on touring BMWs with helmets/full leathers/boots at their normal speeds on a dry road. He got a "tank slapper" and went down hitting a wall.  Died instantly. One dude saw it in real time they were talking on radio headsets. Said If he had gone down a short distance down the highway he would have slid into a field and probably walked  it off. So, you never know. You can take every precaution in the world, I'm not saying don't live your life far from it. People die crossing the street. 

 

I just do not see any downside to vaccination.

 

As for my wacky friend I don't worry about catching covid-19 from him but I do think he could benefit from the protections the shots provide from hospitalization and death if like anyone else in our age group he were to contract the virus. That is up to him, a choice. But the reasons for his rejection are completely irrational. Fear uncertainty and doubt. Feeding a conspiratorial nature, fueled by dodgy websites and "alternative" media sources. 

 

Edited August 23, 20215 yr by Captain Monday

2 hours ago, wwest5829 said:

Happy for your good health. If you were an American kid the DPT shot would have been administered before you had a memory. 1950’s in Southern New Jersey we were lined up and got both the Sabine and Salk vaccines. Applied for a college in North Carolina that required a Typhoid/Paratyphoid shot … severe reaction. Did not go to that college! Getting ready for international travel, Yellow Fever shot. Only ever took one flu shot … felt like I had the flu so passed on any future shots of that. Yeah, old enough to have been exposed to a number of virus but … getting in line for Pfizer shot. Appears that it will be looked for if I want to travel internationally sometime in the next two years.

Thanks. It was mid-60's and I can remember kids wailing because they were afraid to get the jab - terrified - and that struck me a kind of funny for some odd reason...

 

Seeing your post reminded me that in junior high my mom and I got a battery of 12-14 shots twice, so we could join my step-father who was working construction in Vietnam (so I mis-spoke on my previous post); both times we didn't end up going! I remember some had nasty side affects, typhoid was one (I think) and I just remember my arm feeling like it was going to fall off - couldn't even move it was painful for about 1.5 days.

 

I was lucky though, because at least I didn't end up with another dick growing out of my forehead (though that might have made some of my sexual experiences more interesting later on, I suppose).

 

I would likely be the same as you, if I were still traveling for work. Many of my ex-colleagues are getting jabbed in order to avoid a potential hassle with flight travel and clients. Personally, I would avoid it as long as I could, but that's just me.

7 minutes ago, DBath said:

Thanks. It was mid-60's and I can remember kids wailing because they were afraid to get the jab - terrified - and that struck me a kind of funny for some odd reason...

 

Seeing your post reminded me that in junior high my mom and I got a battery of 12-14 shots twice, so we could join my step-father who was working construction in Vietnam (so I mis-spoke on my previous post); both times we didn't end up going! I remember some had nasty side affects, typhoid was one (I think) and I just remember my arm feeling like it was going to fall off - couldn't even move it was painful for about 1.5 days.

 

I was lucky though, because at least I didn't end up with another dick growing out of my forehead (though that might have made some of my sexual experiences more interesting later on, I suppose).

 

I would likely be the same as you, if I were still traveling for work. Many of my ex-colleagues are getting jabbed in order to avoid a potential hassle with flight travel and clients. Personally, I would avoid it as long as I could, but that's just me.

Your arm comment reminded me of the tenis shot. Felt like cement was injected. Here is a smile for all reading. I hate needles. I mean it is a violation of my strang defense mechanisms … so, Mom worked as a receptionist in a hospital lab. Every time visiting home from college … in for complete blood work up (submitted in my deceased Grandmother’s name). Anyway, getting ready to do back to visit the “vampires” and Mom says loudly … we have a fainter coming back … hey! That only happened one time, Mom!! 

23 hours ago, impulse said:

Thalidomide was looking pretty good in early trials, too.  Even got full approval, unlike the vaccines which are under emergency approvals.  Didn't age well, though...

 

The misinformation is that the vaccines have been proven safe in the long term...  For that to happen, takes a long term. 

 

 

 

Pfizer just got full approval.

2 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Someone forced to use an unapproved vaccine by their company could claim a lot of compensation it they suffered damaging side effects.

Pfizer is now fully approved.

 

How about someone in a company forced to work next to an unvaccinated nut. They could claim a lot of compensation if they suffered damaging side effects.

5 hours ago, papa al said:

Ok. Yes or no:

You still messing with little boys on the weekend.?

No. The big boys kept interrupting... ????

2 hours ago, Captain Monday said:

Two very good friends lost in the last 4 years 

 

One was a walking time bomb with bad habits. By the way another lady from our company I don't know well was one of those super healthy types who works out constantly with strict diet and even appeared in regional Mrs. Fitness model contests. A super missus with washboard abs. Both collapsed from massive strokes and were dead within a few days nothing could be done. My other buddy was on a planned ride with three or four other guys on touring BMWs with helmets/full leathers/boots at their normal speeds on a dry road. He got a "tank slapper" and went down hitting a wall.  Died instantly. One dude saw it in real time they were talking on radio headsets. Said If he had gone down a short distance down the highway he would have slid into a field and probably walked  it off. So, you never know. You can take every precaution in the world, I'm not saying don't live your life far from it. People die crossing the street. 

 

I just do not see any downside to vaccination.

 

As for my wacky friend I don't worry about catching covid-19 from him but I do think he could benefit from the protections the shots provide from hospitalization and death if like anyone else in our age group he were to contract the virus. That is up to him, a choice. But the reasons for his rejection are completely irrational. Fear uncertainty and doubt. Feeding a conspiratorial nature, fueled by dodgy websites and "alternative" media sources. 

 

I imagine it must be hard to lose a close friend, not something I've had to experience recently, thankfully.

 

I did lose my dearest aunt last year due to a fairly routine heart valve procedure that her doctor recommended, which I thought could have been ignored - in retrospect, given the nature of her problem and that it wasn't even life-threatening - her heart condition, that is. She died on the operating table because there was "a complication" and I have this vision of doctors wanting to use for one of their latest practice dummies. I realize that may be a stretch, but I still can't get that thought out of my head.

 

Then there was the time when my youngest son had meconium asperation and had to be flown to Shand's hospital in Florida, so he could be put on an ecmo machine (extracorporeal life support). I went to the hospital every day and saw firsthand how stressed he was from them drawing blood from his traumatized little head. The woman who was the head of the department there wanted me to sign a waiver, so they could take more blood draws to further their research into his problem - when he was already being stuck like a pin-cushion. I mean, this woman was trying to strong-arm me and make me feel guilty for not allowing it - was not going to happen. 

 

I do think doctors often get a bad rap, but I have many other firsthand experiences with the ineptness that goes in hospitals and urgent care facilities. I expect more, I expect better, everyone should. One can say, "what does that have to do with covid and vaccines?" For me it carries over and presents a picture of the many ways I believe the entire medical profession and industry is a joke. From big pharma R&D all the way through to the doctors prescribing whatever drugs big pharma wants to push.

 

Most hospitals and urgent clinics are run like lean companies and most doctors don't even get paid what they're worth anymore. So, like your friend, I have my reasons, too. That you may or may not like them does not matter in my thought process.

 

I do agree that one has to live one's life and I also think it's important to take the proper precautions and weigh the risks, but I don't buy into some of the fearmongering that is common here on TVF. While it may be for a few others, for me it's not a matter of conspiracy theories or media sources. I'm pretty well-read and follow a wide and diverse range of media sources, from the extremely liberal to the extreme right. 

 

I like to march to my own beat and no one else's, that's just who I am. That's how I've always been and that's how I will continue to be.

 

That others might judge me or try to put me down to me because of it, is of no significance.

Edited August 23, 20215 yr by DBath

1 hour ago, wwest5829 said:

Your arm comment reminded me of the tenis shot. Felt like cement was injected. Here is a smile for all reading. I hate needles. I mean it is a violation of my strang defense mechanisms … so, Mom worked as a receptionist in a hospital lab. Every time visiting home from college … in for complete blood work up (submitted in my deceased Grandmother’s name). Anyway, getting ready to do back to visit the “vampires” and Mom says loudly … we have a fainter coming back … hey! That only happened one time, Mom!! 

That's a great story, something this thread could definitely use more of, IMO. ????

5 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

What about the rights of a company ?

 

Does it not also have the right to protect itself? if employees refuse to take vaccine and there is a Covid-19 outbreak that will be extremely costly for the company if it has to shut down.

 

This: A company may be within its rights to set out within its health and safety policy that employees have taken specific vaccinations. 

 

 

My Son’s vaccination records were required at by the medical team at his school before being admitted. 

I’m sure if there were some missing vaccinations we would have been asked to have them.

This is for the protection of the others students, I’m perfectly happy with that. 

 

I have had to comply with my company's HSE regulations and comply with quarantine, vaccinations and PCR Testing - it is now part of the job, I don’t mind that if it means I can continue working. 

 

Of course, refusal to get vaccinated would mean immediate termination - I’m ok with that (the vaccinations being offered were Pfizer / Moderna).

 

 

 

 

 

 

Of course company's should have rights, just like people should have rights. I'm not going to get into a debate with you about how different companies would need to handle or even rebuild their procedures and policies, that would be both boring and fruitless. I don't think anyone should have the right to make a blanket claim that employees deserve to be terminated simply for not vaccinating or simply because some 'Captain Covid' here on TVF thinks they should be terminated for not getting jabbed. It's a lot more complicated than that. There will no doubt be exceptions made within certain LOB's, where covid could have a crippling affect on certain companies, but it needs to be handled on a case-by-case basis, IMO. 

 

Different countries and even different states and provinces have laws that will need to be rewritten and companies will need to re-evaluate their policies and procedures. It's not going to be resolved simply by executive order. 

 

And the statement made earlier by one member here that "sick days should not be allowed" for those who are unvaccinated that get covid, is frankly shortsighted, over-simplified and ludicrous and it only addresses a sliver of the solution.

Edited August 23, 20215 yr by DBath

9 hours ago, robblok said:

We are not all from the UK where I come from the government supports businesses when they have a woman on maternity leave. So the business owner does not bear the risk.

 

On a side note maybe the UK does too but you don't know it. I know for a fact that in the Netherlands the government helps as i seen the money deposited to business owners.

Oops, I forgot!

Edited August 23, 20215 yr by thaibeachlovers