Salary...appalled Or Thankful?

[dano]

so here i am with a retirement visa and a nice condo(which is fully paid for) on the beach between Cha Am and Hua Hin. After 8 mos of travel, riding my bicycle in more than a few places around Thailand and playing golf 3 days a week I find myself a bit bored. Maybe it's the people thing I miss or that nasty little work ethic monkey on my shoulder but I'm a young 54 and feel like i need a bit of structure in my life and maybe even meet some middle class Thai folks.

For the past 15 yrs I've owned my on business(in a non pedagogical field) on an island in the Western Pacific. Prior to that I was an ESL person for 14 years

in the US, Japan and Micronesia. I hold an BA in Education and an MA in ESL from that bastion of intellect, the Univ. of Hawaii at Manoa having worked with junior high, university and post graduate students.

Two months back I decided to dust off my diplomas and throw my hat into the academic ring once again here in Thailand. Since then I've interviewed for 4 positions, three at govt universities and one at a fly by nite language centre in Mukdahan. Lo and behold, every place has offered me a position....guess i interview well. Anyway, I find their offers of around 30,000 baht per mos more than a little on the low side. Granted, 15 classroom hours per week is not a heavy load but when you throw in office hours, prep hours and time to catch up and embellish a few rumors in the teachers lounge it turns out to be a full time job.

My question is: should I be appalled at 25-33 thousand baht per month for my charm, wit and expertise or should I just be thankful someone wants me?

[Tarragona]

Your qualifications and experience won't count for much at a government university in terms of monetary compensation - it's just the standard package.

[Ijustwannateach]

That's pretty good earnings for outside Bangkok- Mukdahan ain't downtown Siam! Furthermore, as the OP says, universities simply offer a standard package- around the 30K mark- and it's up to you if that's enough or not. It is true, however, that they throw a lot of extra work paid at substantially higher rates at their employees (but you didn't sound like you wanted to hustle, just fill in some free time). And if you became fully employed (at the government universities, say) wouldn't you need to give up your retirement visa (I don't think you can get a work permit with one, and the gov. unis play by the book most of the time)? If you're wondering why the unis are able to pay such low wages and yet demand higher qualifications, look in the mirror. Scratch a farang government school professor, and I'll show you a retiree in disguise (yes, yes, with plenty of exceptions).

As this is really a qualifications question, I'll move it shortly into the Q about Q thread.

"Steven"

[rott]

Compared to a teacher's pay in the 'west' it's low pay, but compared to

(or with) the average wage paid to a teacher,nurse or policeman in

Thailand it's not to be sniffed at.

[dukkha]

I think there are quite a number who are teaching with a retirement visa...I guess their employers are aware but tend to not comment...It is illegal is it not? What would be the consequences for one doing so? Could one be thrown out of the Kingdom? Dukkha

[Ijustwannateach]

I'd like for someone else to confirm, but I was under the impression a retirement visa meant you couldn't get a work permit- and all work done without a permit is technically illegal. Plenty of people doing it, and not a lot of political will to punish it, however. (It's also illegal to *employ* someone without a work permit, so the employers are not exactly eager to use that as a lever of power when they get upset or "fire" someone- though they may threaten).

[gdhm]

I'd like for someone else to confirm, but I was under the impression a retirement visa meant you couldn't get a work permit- and all work done without a permit is technically illegal. Plenty of people doing it, and not a lot of political will to punish it, however. (It's also illegal to *employ* someone without a work permit, so the employers are not exactly eager to use that as a lever of power when they get upset or "fire" someone- though they may threaten).

Yes you are correct it is illegal to work or be given paid work in Thailand if you are here on a Non immigration "O" (Retirement" Visa.

If Immigration find out that will probably be the end of a person's stay in Thailand and they are getting tougher. I just hope a retired person's wife is not the victim when her working retired husband is asked to leave within a few days upon non renewal of his Visa.

It is definitely advisable if a person wishes to work that he or she gets a work permit. Unfortunately there are still (despite more stringent rules) many non qualified teachers who would not get a work permit as they do not possess the necessary certificate to prove their teaching ability.

My wife is a Thai and a teacher and my sister a teacher back in the UK. I personally regret the unofficial teachers, not because they may not be up to the job, but because Teaching is more than being an expert on a subject. It is a skill that takes many years of training and dedication. Unqualified teachers MAY have the teaching gift and the knowledge but its the children who suffer if they do not.

Regards, Dave

[heybruce]

I'd like for someone else to confirm, but I was under the impression a retirement visa meant you couldn't get a work permit- and all work done without a permit is technically illegal. Plenty of people doing it, and not a lot of political will to punish it, however. (It's also illegal to *employ* someone without a work permit, so the employers are not exactly eager to use that as a lever of power when they get upset or "fire" someone- though they may threaten).

Yes you are correct it is illegal to work or be given paid work in Thailand if you are here on a Non immigration "O" (Retirement" Visa.

If Immigration find out that will probably be the end of a person's stay in Thailand and they are getting tougher. I just hope a retired person's wife is not the victim when her working retired husband is asked to leave within a few days upon non renewal of his Visa.

It is definitely advisable if a person wishes to work that he or she gets a work permit. Unfortunately there are still (despite more stringent rules) many non qualified teachers who would not get a work permit as they do not possess the necessary certificate to prove their teaching ability.

My wife is a Thai and a teacher and my sister a teacher back in the UK. I personally regret the unofficial teachers, not because they may not be up to the job, but because Teaching is more than being an expert on a subject. It is a skill that takes many years of training and dedication. Unqualified teachers MAY have the teaching gift and the knowledge but its the children who suffer if they do not.

Regards, Dave

Unfortunately it is difficult if not impossible to find a school that will provide the work visa before seeing a beginning teacher teach. At least that is the case in the Chiang Mai area, and I suspect it is true all over Thailand. That is why schools prefer new teachers on non-immigrant or retirement visas, it allows the schools to see them teach a few months before going to the trouble of applying for the work visa. It is illegal and it should not be this way, but if you want to teach in Thailand you will have a very hard time being legal from day one.

[gdhm]

I'd like for someone else to confirm, but I was under the impression a retirement visa meant you couldn't get a work permit- and all work done without a permit is technically illegal. Plenty of people doing it, and not a lot of political will to punish it, however. (It's also illegal to *employ* someone without a work permit, so the employers are not exactly eager to use that as a lever of power when they get upset or "fire" someone- though they may threaten).

Yes you are correct it is illegal to work or be given paid work in Thailand if you are here on a Non immigration "O" (Retirement" Visa.

If Immigration find out that will probably be the end of a person's stay in Thailand and they are getting tougher. I just hope a retired person's wife is not the victim when her working retired husband is asked to leave within a few days upon non renewal of his Visa.

It is definitely advisable if a person wishes to work that he or she gets a work permit. Unfortunately there are still (despite more stringent rules) many non qualified teachers who would not get a work permit as they do not possess the necessary certificate to prove their teaching ability.

My wife is a Thai and a teacher and my sister a teacher back in the UK. I personally regret the unofficial teachers, not because they may not be up to the job, but because Teaching is more than being an expert on a subject. It is a skill that takes many years of training and dedication. Unqualified teachers MAY have the teaching gift and the knowledge but its the children who suffer if they do not.

Regards, Dave

Unfortunately it is difficult if not impossible to find a school that will provide the work visa before seeing a beginning teacher teach. At least that is the case in the Chiang Mai area, and I suspect it is true all over Thailand. That is why schools prefer new teachers on non-immigrant or retirement visas, it allows the schools to see them teach a few months before going to the trouble of applying for the work visa. It is illegal and it should not be this way, but if you want to teach in Thailand you will have a very hard time being legal from day one.

Thank you and very interesting "damned if you do, damned if you don't'.

Can't win can you!!

Thank goodness I just wish to be lazy on my retirement visa and not work (mind you, my 4 year old stepson brings a new meaning to "relax and not work" . but I love him to bits

Regards, Dave

Edited June 7, 2007 by gdhm

[oswaldcassidy]

so here i am with a retirement visa and a nice condo(which is fully paid for) on the beach between Cha Am and Hua Hin. After 8 mos of travel, riding my bicycle in more than a few places around Thailand and playing golf 3 days a week I find myself a bit bored. Maybe it's the people thing I miss or that nasty little work ethic monkey on my shoulder but I'm a young 54 and feel like i need a bit of structure in my life and maybe even meet some middle class Thai folks.

For the past 15 yrs I've owned my on business(in a non pedagogical field) on an island in the Western Pacific. Prior to that I was an ESL person for 14 years

in the US, Japan and Micronesia. I hold an BA in Education and an MA in ESL from that bastion of intellect, the Univ. of Hawaii at Manoa having worked with junior high, university and post graduate students.

Two months back I decided to dust off my diplomas and throw my hat into the academic ring once again here in Thailand. Since then I've interviewed for 4 positions, three at govt universities and one at a fly by nite language centre in Mukdahan. Lo and behold, every place has offered me a position....guess i interview well. Anyway, I find their offers of around 30,000 baht per mos more than a little on the low side. Granted, 15 classroom hours per week is not a heavy load but when you throw in office hours, prep hours and time to catch up and embellish a few rumors in the teachers lounge it turns out to be a full time job.

My question is: should I be appalled at 25-33 thousand baht per month for my charm, wit and expertise or should I just be thankful someone wants me?

A thai friend of mine has been the English teacher at the local high school for some 20 years she works from 8am until 16 30 5 days a week her salary is 30 k a month yours is the same for for much less hours her husband left the thai shool system last year after 26 years his pension is only 10k per month you have to decide if its worth getting out of bed for 30k the decision is yours good luck i would stick to retirement and enjoy it

[Ijustwannateach]

Hmmm.... this has become more about retirement visas & working legally, so we'll leave it as a separate topic.

[PeaceBlondie]

I gave up on the idea of working on a B visa because the damned schools usually won't lift a lazy finger to get you a work permit, usually. And yes, it is illegal to work on an O retirement visa, as far as anybody seems to know.

Comparing the wages of Thai teachers to farang teachers is futile, worhtless, irrelevant. The differences far, far outweigh any incidental similarities.

I've spent the last two years writing novels, falling off a motorcycle, being attacked by a dog and a jellyfish in Hua Hin, curing an infection the experts couldn't diagnose, having a stroke, and wishing I could have a real job. I've been cursed by the work ethic and bored out of my gourd. Good luck, dano.

[markg]

My 2 satang.

When comparing salaries here vs back home - forget about the actual numbers. Do it on percentages.

Here's how i justify it.

My salary here is 75% less than back home,

However - my rent is also 75% less - so it matches.

Then compare other stuff like your utilities bills, food and entertainment, transport and fuel costs etc.

My food bills are more than 75% lower than back home - now i'm up on the deal.

Cost of transportation is about the same - its about 75% cheaper here.

The x-factor. Beer is more expensive here than back home. You can waste a lot on that.

All in all, on the face of it, you're as well off, if not slightly better here than back home.

However, it doesnt look so rosy when you add in that as expats we should be paying National Insurance back home (costs money and costs to transfer that money too). We generally dont have a pension here. We all should be paying for private healthcare which back in the UK we wouldnt be.

Its your call - but on the face of it, 30K a month is more than a living wage.

[mark lamai]

just find your own students and charge 500 - 1000 an hour .

plenty of rich thai folks can pay that.

get yourself a good reputation locally and you will be able to pick and choose how much work you want to do.

don't forget you are a highly qualified foreign professional.

don't sell yourself as a pimply backpacker....

[PeaceBlondie]

just find your own students and charge 500 - 1000 an hour .

plenty of rich thai folks can pay that.

get yourself a good reputation locally and you will be able to pick and choose how much work you want to do.

don't forget you are a highly qualified foreign professional.

don't sell yourself as a pimply backpacker....

Mark, I'm not arguing with you, but are you suggesting that someone without even a work permit, perhaps here on a tourist visa or a retirement visa, just do private lessons? That's a perfect idea, except that it's illegal. Highly qualified foreign professionals usually are legal. I ain't no pimply backpacker, and I moonlighted as a private tutor when I was a professional at the IRS, but...it ain't legal here!

If you're suggesting that a well qualified professional teacher, who has the right visa and a work permit to teach English at XXX Rajamahada Street, also do private lessons elsewhere - isn't that illegal, as well?

[WapiJohn]

It depends on wether you are interested in teaching or making money. The two do not go together in Thailand.

The best teachers are the ones who consider the students ( not the schools !) first and not the money.