400k Baht What Should I Do ?

[sgthai]

i dont think anyone cares about the technical setting up of the companies. i want to know what business you guys are in that thai s cant do themselves.

haha...who says thai can't do any business ! You are really confused mate.

The thais can do business but in a small scale and not enterprrising.

We just joined in and improve on it or put in a little competition thats all.

Either that they have no overseas knowledge on how to grow or have no big capital to carry on further.

Why do you think china progessess so fast?

Yes the american are straight and technology intelligent business man but when it comes to a chinese?

The fittest survive and thus the growing competition from china.

Look at the volume of fake goods in production.

Even america can't do anything about it.

Hey as long as there are buyers...why worry so much.

If what we guys are doing is illegal then I guess many thais are infact doing illegal business too.

I don't deny that the fact that most successful businessman are shrewd people.

So one have to decide if money is your first priorty or morals.

If its the latter then I suggest you do something that is church or charity related.

Business is not for the ordinary good folks. Better to go get a job mate.

[sgthai]

you tell em american guy! his story doesnt add up.

i am unable to as a was banned for 24 hours for questioning his knowledge..............lol.

I don't think people get banned for questioning someone's knowledge, but they probably do for making insulting remarks.

I believe sgthai was talking about hidden taxes in sing such as the Certificate of Entitlement permitting car ownership, but I might be wrong - I'm sure he can answer for himself.

My dear Sonicdragon,

You are indeed a wise one. Yes it's the various indirect taxes that is making so many singporean struggling to make ends meet.

We are one of the highest paid employees in SE Asia besides HK with an average income of about S$1500-5000 a month ( 33,000 - 110,000 baht for office worker) and everybody is struggling to pay their monthly bills.

Besides taxes we have maid levy,phone bills,petrol,food,school fees,water,elec,conservency charges and phew....just too many to remember.

Edited July 10, 2007 by sgthai

[sgthai]

I'm sure he can answer for himself.

No doubt, but he probably has better things to do than waste his time trying to educate those who want / need everything presented to them on a plate........Christ the fella was providing general info about what he is doing to be helpful, not presenting a business plan to a bank nor responding to a tax audit!

If folk actually WANT information and help from anyone I find it always best not to use insults........but opnions and experiances no doubt differ on this point..........

Is he 100% legal? Where I come from it is not always polite to ask , but certainly IMO he has given enough information to show a viable business model (whether legal or not)..........I might be tempted to copy him, if I spoke Chinese. and Thai. and could be ar#ed

Thank you my dear friend for coming to my aid.

Sometimes it doesn't pay to help but what to do ...thats my nature...I like to help as much as I can to fellow forummer in need.

Anyway I don't expect anything in return so if they doubt it then so be it.

It's a forum afterall.

I don't stand to gain anything but stand to lose by receiving insult instead.

It's fine...life have thought me alot and it's just part and parcel of it.

Cheers mate..!

Edited July 10, 2007 by sgthai

[keestha]

Interesting thread. Many posters seem to think it is impossible to start a business with only 400k. I think, with wisdom/good luck or a combination of the two, it can still be done. The thing is to start at the right place at the right moment, don't buy something which is already going but rent a shophouse or an empty piece of land, and start it up yourself. Ideas could be a travel agency, a language school,or a restaurant/bar. In a place where tourism is not too developed yet ,but growing, chances would be better than in Phuket, Hua Hin, Pattaya and so on.

[AmericanGuy1066]

sgthai, to quote a little of your garbage:

Dear sir,

I really read with amusement on your comment above.

Care to tell me how much you know about setting up a co.in thailand???

I have an existing co. registered for 3 years now with 4 thai workers thus allowing myself to have a work permit.

Do u actually think you need to pay up 2m baht into your company before you are eligible to employ a foreigner?

What put it in and then loan it back to yourself are you talking about?

What need thai holder to put in money as well are you talking about too?

My sleeping thai partner( practically not active at all,just a nominee ) is holding 51% and myself 49% and I am the one calling all the shots in my business.

Please gentleman....to survive or conduct any business in any country one had got to work smart.

Registering and govt. policy is just a guideline...there are always ways to go around it and get things done.

You don't need to pay the full 2m baht my dear sir.

All you need to do is pay 5,000 baht per million paid up capital.

For example if you want your co. paid up to be 5m baht then all you need to do is pay 5000 x 5 =25,000 baht and that is all.

And I don't need to pay salary to 4 of my thai workers.All I only need to do is to secure 4 thai national names which is unemployed and pay for their monthly social insurance medical funds inwhich the mininmum rate is 580 baht per person ( 290 employee and 290 employer)

On papers my co. have a paid up of 2m baht with 4 fulltime thai employees.

I report with holding taxes,7%vat,social insurances and personal tax every month without fail.

And what I am doing is totally legal on paper..gentleman

No offence meant at all but I guess both you and that bizzard guy are not very smart or knowledgable when it comes to business lol

Boy oh boy...this is a forum...aren't you embarass to make comments which you have no idea or knowledge on what you are talking about?

Anyway out of respect for the adminstration here I shall not carry on explaining or argueing on this subject anymore.

If you think you are the wiser...be my guest...go ahead and do what you think is right or smart.

That's your prerogative.

sgthai

I guess when you can't reason properly, you have to go on an offensive and get personal. Rather than stoop to your level, I'll just shoot you down in flames with a few more facts:

- nominee holdings with silent thai partners aren't legal. Why do you think there has been such a fuss about nominee holdings and the ex-PM's investigations.

- Let me quote a couple of instances of where you are talking utter garbage about legality, e.g from Sunbelt Legal Advisors. http://www.sunbeltlegaladvisors.com/Thaila...any-Limited.php

1)You would find this on many other legal websites:

"Nominee shareholders are Thai nationals who agree to hold shares on behalf of the true owner(s) of the shares and are shareholders in name only. Under this arrangement, typically they are given shares of a business so that they own 51% or more of that business, but the true foreign owner retains all voting rights, rights to receive dividends of the shares. The Foreign Business Act prohibits Thai nationals from acting as "nominee" shareholders with the penalties ranging from fines of 100,000 baht to one million baht and terms of imprisonment of up to three years or both. Sunbelt strongly advocates foreigners to not use Thai “nominee” shareholders to hold shares to evade the laws.....

2) work permit rules from Bangkok International Associates THB 2m

http://www.bia.co.th/chapter19.pdf

3) share capital: there is a rule of minimum 25% needed to be paid up. your 5k is laughable.

http://www.bia.co.th/chapter4.pdf

i.e - Seems your business knowledge is not what you thought it was. There's quite a lot I don't know, but it obviously far exceeds your knowledge of setting up LEGAL companies. A better way would be "preference shares" or even a "circular holding company" or "different classes of ordinary shares". I also mentioned BoI investment, being an American (i.e American Treaty... arrangements). All currently legal. That's 5 different types of structure all legal. You've just given one dodgy one, risking your Thai friends with 3 years jail and THB1mio fine

You say it all when you say "Registering and govt. policy is just a guideline...there are always ways to go around it and get things done". You are taking about breaking the LAW. Sure you know how to do what many people do in breaking the rules, but relying on the Thai government not enforcing them is getting more risky by the day

BTW 3 years running a dodgy company, and that makes you an expert. Again laughable. I 've spent much longer than that in Thailand, and been involved in structuring companies, accounts, tax etc. Funnily enough tho' I'm employed by a Singapore company at the moment. You know that place you come from and can't afford to live because the taxes are so high. Well sir, I can afford it, and was suitably qualified so that I was exceeding your SGD averages 3 year after leaving college, i.e age 25, and studying for professional qualifications that allow me to talk semi intelligently (unlike yourself) about legal busines. I think we play in different leagues.

I think that's about enough to discredit you. I'm sure most intelligent people can follow thru these links or Google elsewhere.

Watch who you're insulting next time

Edited July 10, 2007 by AmericanGuy1066

[sonicdragon]

you tell em american guy! his story doesnt add up.

i am unable to as a was banned for 24 hours for questioning his knowledge..............lol.

I don't think people get banned for questioning someone's knowledge, but they probably do for making insulting remarks.

I believe sgthai was talking about hidden taxes in sing such as the Certificate of Entitlement permitting car ownership, but I might be wrong - I'm sure he can answer for himself.

My dear Sonicdragon,

You are indeed a wise one. Yes it's the various indirect taxes that is making so many singporean struggling to make ends meet.

We are one of the highest paid employees in SE Asia besides HK with an average income of about S$1500-5000 a month ( 33,000 - 110,000 baht for office worker) and everybody is struggling to pay their monthly bills.

Besides taxes we have maid levy,phone bills,petrol,food,school fees,water,elec,conservency charges and phew....just too many to remember.

I believe the HDB housing and the CPF pension scheme are also very big (indirect) tax collection machines in Sing.

sgthai, to get this thread back on-topic, would you care to let us know what specific business(es) you would recommend to the OP ?

Edited July 10, 2007 by sonicdragon

[AmericanGuy1066]

I believe the HDB housing and the CPF pension scheme are also very big (indirect) tax collection machines in Sing.

sgthai, to get this thread back on-topic, would you care to let us know what specific business(es) you would recommend to the OP ?

Sonic: HDB Housing has support from the Sing govt to help make housing more affordable to the general public. As for CPF that's a type of pension contribution as you say, not a tax, i.e savings. you can do many things with the CPF, eg medical, purchase property etc. Furthermore the employer also has to contribute on your behalf too.

To get back on topic. Answer remains "legally as a foreigner not much".

Edited July 10, 2007 by AmericanGuy1066

[sonicdragon]

I believe the HDB housing and the CPF pension scheme are also very big (indirect) tax collection machines in Sing.

sgthai, to get this thread back on-topic, would you care to let us know what specific business(es) you would recommend to the OP ?

Sonic: HDB Housing has support from the Sing govt to help make housing more affordable to the general public. As for CPF that's a type of pension contribution as you say, not a tax, i.e savings. you can do many things with the CPF, eg medical, purchase property etc. Furthermore the employer also has to contribute on your behalf too.

To get back on topic. Answer remains "legally as a foreigner not much".

I guess you come from an accounting or legal background, whereas I am an economist so obviously we have different ways of viewing things. Perhaps I should call it "unofficial" rather than "indirect" taxation, but in my opinion the HDB scheme is a tax collection machine due to the massive difference between the cost to the government of constructing the units and the price that local people have to pay for them. That the market price for private flats is much higher is beside the point. The CPF scheme is, IMHO, a tax because the governement gives a low fixed return on the monies contributed while enjoying above market average returns on the investments it makes - to me that is a kind of taxation.

[JimsKnight]

This threads really taken off, Sgthai giving his chinese myriad/shrewd-like ways on business and americanguy blasting back about the line of the law. One says bend the rules and flow around them, the other says NO WAY, obey the law!

I like the way we are hearing things from the Asian mind, its not often that the little dragons post on TV but its really interesting how we can here something from the masters of money. If Singaporeans have savings of at least 100K Sterling they must be doing something right!

Afterall they say that the Chinese think at least 10-50 years ahead compared with we Europeans and the US which stands at 1 hour - 1 year ahead.

But one thing about thai companies is that we never hear any stories about farang and Asian folk getting busted for a few minor discrepancies on the setup (like the start-up requirements and making only minimum social security payments etc)so maybe SgThai has a point. Afterall Thailand is a laissez faire kind-of place...

Or am I being naive?

[Jersey_UK]

Watch who you're insulting next time

Krist on a stick...............

For someone who probably is very intelligent and does know a lot (is that learnt or taught?), you do not appear to be able to look at the world from a viewpoint outside your own box.............sounds like many (but not all) of the Accountants (and not a few lawyers) I have encountered over the years (Yeah yeah, multinationals, re-structurings, tax savings yadda yadda yadda), absolutely brilliant when pointed in the right direction - but on their own not much use to man nor beast...............the irony is that I do love the fact that Accountants have come up with rules (principals? my ar#e ) to let them legally do stuff with figures that would otherwise in laymans terms be called................cheating .............but I digress

I dunno if sgthai has the time and patience to reply point by point, but I certainly do not..........but certainly to me nothing he has said means that what he is doing is illegal. from what he has said it may well be so, or a bit too close to the wire for comfort.............but that's why he is an entrepeneur he can assess and take risks..........my assessment is that the risk is acceptable given his activities.............anyway, if things do not work out for him, he can always become an Accountant .

[sonicdragon]

This threads really taken off, Sgthai giving his chinese myriad/shrewd-like ways on business and americanguy blasting back about the line of the law. One says bend the rules and flow around them, the other says NO WAY, obey the law!

I like the way we are hearing things from the Asian mind, its not often that the little dragons post on TV but its really interesting how we can here something from the masters of money. If Singaporeans have savings of at least 100K Sterling they must be doing something right!

Afterall they say that the Chinese think at least 10-50 years ahead compared with we Europeans and the US which stands at 1 hour - 1 year ahead.

But one thing about thai companies is that we never hear any stories about farang and Asian folk getting busted for a few minor discrepancies on the setup (like the start-up requirements and making only minimum social security payments etc)so maybe SgThai has a point. Afterall Thailand is a laissez faire kind-of place...

Or am I being naive?

I don't think Thailand is Laissez-Faire at all, at least not in the conventional sense. I'm no specialist on company law - maybe americanguy can step in here - I think the point you make about lack of prosecutions for company law violations may be explained more by a lack of funding for enforecement of the law.

Edited July 10, 2007 by sonicdragon

[peteinCM]

The OP already has a business in Thailand and is already here legally and has a trusted Thai business parter. He is not wanting to come in and set up a new shop and get a WP from it. He is asking what is a good second SMALL business to open for 400K which is a fortune for opening a SMALL business in LOS if one is leasing the business premises and is set up outside the major tourist areas.

I would say to the OP that there are hundreds of businesses one can set up for 400K. Your best source of info is your Thai business partner and your Thai friends. They will know what is needed in your area and what types of businesses might succeed. As you probably know, you will also have to think outside the box a bit as Thais will often just copy an already exisiting business model that seems to be working. As with any business, there has to be an identifiable market, and only you will know what the market is like in your area and what may work best in tandem with your already existing business.

I spent a total of about 150K opening a flower shop and a small restaurant for my Thai BF (in separate locations). Both earn in profit between 10K-20K in profit in normal months. The upside is that on four different occassions the flower shop landed some very nice accounts with big paydays (over 100K profit). The BF has actually funneled back my initial 150K investment to me, and he has bought a new car. The downside is that the flower shop has little business in the hot and rainy months as it is not wedding season and there are no big festivals, so the income in the June-Aug months is about 5K profit. However, the restaurant business remains steady.

We have looked at a number of other smaller business in his town (a suburb in the north), and there are some winning possibilities for 400K investment. One could possibly make 50K-100K profit each month after two-to-three years off one of the better ideas and grow it into something even bigger. However, we are looking at a different business in another city that requires a much larger investment but has a tremendous potential for earnings (and no, I won't discuss either of those businesses here).

So yes, there are many businesses that an exisiting company or a Thai person can open for 400K. I also agree with another poster above that TIT. There is a bend and flow to doing business here that a true entrepenuer needs to be able to stomach. It helps for the small investor to already have a company or to have a very trusted Thai business partner. The OP has both. He is a smart man in that he is willing to take a risk on a new business which will give him a much better return on investment than any other investment into which he can put his money. I think he already realizes that it carries much greater risk.

There are thousands and thousands of farang and expats who have successful businesses in LOS. Many of them did live like Thai people (what does this mean anyway? not having AC and eating street food? Is that so bad?) and worked their asses off and put their money back into growing their business and expanding into new ventures. Sunbelt has many businesses listed under 1 mill baht, and some have real potential with hard work and the right frame of mind.

Most business is about risk and working very hard to succeed. The OP already lives in LOS, has a Thai wife, and already has a business that supports them both. Telling him he cannot open a second small business with 400K TB is laughable. As for me, Thais love to eat, and I know the food industry, so I always think the right food venture has the potential to make a steady income. I would also advise the OP to consider a business with a 10k-20K net income, especially as it is a second business. If it works, then open a third small business in a year or so or expand one of your first two businesses. I just find 10-20K net each month a good marker for most Thai small businesses. However, with 400K you can open what many consider to be a medium-size business, and could easily see profits of 30K-60K each month if successful.

BTW, for many naysayers about business in LOS, I think it is an excellent country in which to do business. Once one works through the business regulations (really not that hard) and understands the unspoken rules for business here, then one has a market with exceptionally cheap labor, cheap rents (with a few exceptions), very cheap COGs, low taxes, and really, fairly unencumbersome business regulations when compared with other countries. Plus, maintaining a good standard of living is cheap in LOS. However, as stated before, any startup business is very risky (most fail in every country), but with great potential ROI, and requires A LOT of work for the small businessman.

I wish the OP luck in figuring out the business for him and his wife. Just make sure it is something you will enjoy and about which you already have some knowledge.

P

[blizzard]

what im hearing is small business means small money and much hard work , and a good deal of luck to succeed.

easier to make more money sitting on your butt playing games online.

live like thai means you live on 150$ a month or something like that,

no offense but los cant be that great of a place to do business. if it were more big companies would be coming here. instead they go to china ,india,etc.

Edited July 11, 2007 by blizzard

[blizzard]

whats all the unspeakable rules one has to follow? you people are hilarious, busnisess more interesting than bargirls.

and when you guys give how much your business makes are you giving the profit after giving yourself a salary. or is your salary tthe profit.

Edited July 11, 2007 by blizzard

[sgthai]

sgthai, to quote a little of your garbage:

sgthai

I guess when you can't reason properly, you have to go on an offensive and get personal. Rather than stoop to your level, I'll just shoot you down in flames with a few more facts:

- nominee holdings with silent thai partners aren't legal. Why do you think there has been such a fuss about nominee holdings and the ex-PM's investigations.

- Let me quote a couple of instances of where you are talking utter garbage about legality, e.g from Sunbelt Legal Advisors. http://www.sunbeltlegaladvisors.com/Thaila...any-Limited.php

1)You would find this on many other legal websites:

"Nominee shareholders are Thai nationals who agree to hold shares on behalf of the true owner(s) of the shares and are shareholders in name only. Under this arrangement, typically they are given shares of a business so that they own 51% or more of that business, but the true foreign owner retains all voting rights, rights to receive dividends of the shares. The Foreign Business Act prohibits Thai nationals from acting as "nominee" shareholders with the penalties ranging from fines of 100,000 baht to one million baht and terms of imprisonment of up to three years or both. Sunbelt strongly advocates foreigners to not use Thai "nominee" shareholders to hold shares to evade the laws.....

2) work permit rules from Bangkok International Associates THB 2m

http://www.bia.co.th/chapter19.pdf

3) share capital: there is a rule of minimum 25% needed to be paid up. your 5k is laughable.

http://www.bia.co.th/chapter4.pdf

i.e - Seems your business knowledge is not what you thought it was. There's quite a lot I don't know, but it obviously far exceeds your knowledge of setting up LEGAL companies. A better way would be "preference shares" or even a "circular holding company" or "different classes of ordinary shares". I also mentioned BoI investment, being an American (i.e American Treaty... arrangements). All currently legal. That's 5 different types of structure all legal. You've just given one dodgy one, risking your Thai friends with 3 years jail and THB1mio fine

You say it all when you say "Registering and govt. policy is just a guideline...there are always ways to go around it and get things done". You are taking about breaking the LAW. Sure you know how to do what many people do in breaking the rules, but relying on the Thai government not enforcing them is getting more risky by the day

BTW 3 years running a dodgy company, and that makes you an expert. Again laughable. I 've spent much longer than that in Thailand, and been involved in structuring companies, accounts, tax etc. Funnily enough tho' I'm employed by a Singapore company at the moment. You know that place you come from and can't afford to live because the taxes are so high. Well sir, I can afford it, and was suitably qualified so that I was exceeding your SGD averages 3 year after leaving college, i.e age 25, and studying for professional qualifications that allow me to talk semi intelligently (unlike yourself) about legal busines. I think we play in different leagues.

I think that's about enough to discredit you. I'm sure most intelligent people can follow thru these links or Google elsewhere.

Watch who you're insulting next time

haha...you discredit me ?....what a joke

Anyway before I proceed any further,I do not think I've insulted you but if you feel it that way then my sincere apology to you.

This forum is for providing info to assist others so I don't see the need to fight over any topic.

Everybody is entitled to their own opinion.

I am only sharing my first hand experience on what I have gone through and done.

I don't talk about things I'm not involve in.

There is no right or wrong on what you say.

The only difference is you do everything by the book.

Me !!!...I just work smart...and I've explained that on the book surface my co. and business is totally legal.

I pay my taxes yearly and follows all the govt. poilcy so how am I illegal

America produces top quality and branded goods.

China produces lower quality and imitation goods...so are they illegal?......do u get my point now?

On your point about the thai nominees.....do you really think that most foreign co. have thai share holder who actually own 51% of the share in the company?

Is Carrefour hyper supermarket wholly own by the french or they own 49% only and the rest own by the thai?

There are many more but I shall'nt name them all.

Get real buddy.....if you say you are an expert in your field then I'm really very surprised about your comment above. Anyhow you are entitled to your say.

[blizzard]

were your posting privileges taken away for a day as you clearly insulted people.

china just executed a guy for something about being involved in the manufacute of shiit goods.

[sgthai]

whats all the unspeakable rules one has to follow? you people are hilarious, busnisess more interesting than bargirls.

and when you guys give how much your business makes are you giving the profit after giving yourself a salary. or is your salary tthe profit.

My dear blizzard,

Laugh all you want buddy but have you heard of this phrase..

The one who laugh last laugh best.

Better still my own phrase......the one with money laugh the loudest ..lol

No problem ....I respect your opinion and if you can excuse me I'll be going for my thrice weekly turkish bath and massage at utopia,ceasar or posedon today.

Maybe you might like to join me.....not very expensive..about 5500 baht for a good 2 hrs rub and fun. lol

Sawadee na krup !

[sgthai]

were your posting privileges taken away for a day as you clearly insulted people.

china just executed a guy for something about being involved in the manufacute of shiit goods.

Dear Blizzard,

Have you ever been to zhenchen or guangzhou china before???

They have thousands of shops and hundreds of manufacturers selling openly their fake goods.

Are you sure or know what you are talking about???

Then all of them will be executed? lol

Please say something with substances and not based on what you read or think.

These area you need not argue because there are thousand of people from all over the whole who have gone there to purchase the fake goods.Its a fact mate.

Don't embrass yourself further my dear friend

[sgthai]

Sonic: HDB Housing has support from the Sing govt to help make housing more affordable to the general public. As for CPF that's a type of pension contribution as you say, not a tax, i.e savings. you can do many things with the CPF, eg medical, purchase property etc. Furthermore the employer also has to contribute on your behalf too.

Correction my dear AmericanGuy,

I am a Singaporean and you know more than me????

The whole population in sg knows the govt makes money from our flat...what subsidy or support from the govt are you talking about.

Please..if you say you are being employed by a sg company ...go ask your sg colleague and friends whether what you've just comment is right or wrong.

Do you even know how much a 3 bedroom.4 bedroom and 5 bedroom govt flat cost or not in sg???

I'll tell you right now and you go and do your homework and you tell everybody here you are right.

The govt sells a 3 bedroom(70 sqm) for S$120,000,4 bedroom(90sqm) for S$190,000 and 5 bedroom(101sqm) for S$320,000 and we can only own it for 99yrs.

Do your sum buddy and asked any of your developer or building contractor friends if you have any whether this price have got profit or not.

Our PAP govt does not subsidies for anything at all.

Not for school,not for medical,not for old folks home,not for hospital,not for the unfortunate etc.

They are clever to hold a charity campaign and it is the charity from all walks of people who donated the money to several charity organisation.

And for our so call CPF savings.....what kind of savings is this when we can only take out 1/2 of it when we reaches the age of 55 yrs old and the balance paid to us monthly by installment around $300-$400 when we reaches the age of 65 yrs old.

Now they have even changed the policy for everyone to have a minimum amount of S$98,000 when you reaches the age of 55 yrs old before you can even withdraw 1/2 of your CPF. Anyone with less than this amount cannot take out his/her money.Don't you think this is very unfair to hold back a worker money when he has worked until 55.We won't even know whether we can live up to 60 yrs old or not.

As an expat or foreigner you should not come in and act smart as if you know everything about singapore and it's policy when I have been a Sinagporean for 47 yrs.

Should any singaporean be reading your comment I can assured you they will write in to rebut you Mr AmericanGuy.

Edited July 11, 2007 by sgthai

[sgthai]

sgthai, to get this thread back on-topic, would you care to let us know what specific business(es) you would recommend to the OP ?

My dear friend,

Everybody have their own interest and preferences.

My style is so long as it is profitable and easy to manage I will go ahead and give it a try.

If it's proven feasible then I will try to find ways to improve or up grade the sales.

Is it not legal for a thai to own a stall?

It is legal whatever stuff you sell if the police say so.

You can sell very legal stuff but the police can stop you from doing so for other reason.

One simple way to start a small business is to rent a stall and sell your stuff.

But for a foreigner who have low capital and want to make a small income this is my practical advice.

To begin with you'll need to have a trusted thai friend or your spouse.

You can rent a stall anywhere in bangkok eg..JJ market,silom,kaosan etc

Rental agreement is usually 1+1 between the 2 parties.

You can purchase your stuff at wholesales price at some wholesale places.

Fashion stuff like Watches,bags,sunglass,toy,shoes,jeans,baby clothings,art and craft wares etc.

Chinatown,yaworrat is a good place to start with.

Do your homework on the location you want to rent,is the human traffick flow there good and what kind of customer are you targeting. Locals,tourist or both.Teengaer or in general.

What kind of stuff is more popular,less competitive and more profitable.

Besides rent you'll need to pay the pavement enviroment dept a fee.

Whatever fee to be paid please go an ask around that area or usually your neighbour stall or the person who rent you the space will be able to advise you on it.

Set up cost including purchasing of your goods can cost anything between 50,000 baht to 100,000 baht and not more.

You'll need to buy a cart with wheels and lock from chinatown.All these info can be given to you by your neighbour or your so call landlord.

You'll need to store your goods after your business closing time and there will be people taking care of your cart,setting up and packing up your stall everynight.The fees is about 1000 baht per mth.

Daily sales depending on the item you sell and the weather playing a big part.

Sales can range from 1000 baht to 15,000 baht per day.

For clothing,sunglasses,jeans,shoes,art and craft stuff the daliy sales should be around 500-3000 baht.

I can only reveal the estimate daily sales and will not want to divulge on the cost of the item.

It's a sort of unspoken trade code amount all retailers to have it confidential.

There are also rsnt business whereby you can rent a shopspace to cater for food if you are good at cooking.This topic has already been highlighted by forummer peteinCM.

She has first hand experience and what she say is all very true.

Only people who have actually conducted small businesses here in Thailand knows what they are talking about.

From my experience I can confirmed that peteinCM is speaking the true facts based on her experience.

If you yourself needs further assistace or enquiry you may like to pm me instead.

This way is better so that I won't get insulted , right

Edited July 11, 2007 by sgthai

[blizzard]

hey i agree with sg guy.

what he saying is aint money to be made selling junk. unless you want to work like thai and live thai style.

good for thais but i just dont see how it can appeal to foreigners!

to summarize. sg thai plan is to do what every other thai is doing..................lol. sounds like the way to go guy.

Edited July 11, 2007 by blizzard

[BigA]

I think its do-able but 400,000 baht is not very much.

Here's my general observation:

I say import either from a lower cost or higher quality country and sell in Thailand or manufacture or market niche Thai goods either within the country or abroad.

[AmericanGuy1066]

Just to clarify a few things:

sgthai was presenting his "brilliant" and "smart" business models. All I was trying to do is say fine, if you like that sort of thing, but bear in mind a lot of what he is doing is not legal. That needs highlighting. There will be an increasing focus in Thailand on legality. Just because everyone was doing it, and got away so far, doesn't mean times aren't changing. Take visa rules, take Thaksin, take nominee shareholdings, all once would have been overlooked today they aren't. If you think the risk is worth the benefit go for it.

My call is not to do dodgy things in Thailand at the moment as a foreigner. Times gone by maybe. Future maybe. Be entrepreneurial but do it legally.

sgthai

I think you need to redefine your idea of "smart". We play in different leagues. Legally as well as financially. More specifically:

- Your idea of success is obviously a "rub and a tug" 3 times a week for THB 5k, an "above average" salary SGD 1-5k, maids too expensive at SGD1k and dodging taxes. You talk of HDBs at SGD 190k, then say I'm "not smart" for not adopting your dodgy models

- On the other hand I'm employed in your own country, where you think it's too expensive to make a living for you. Something doesn't add up in what you're saying, as Blizzard also keeps highlighting. Maids at SGD1k - well worthing having, makes my life much easier, very happy to pay thanks. HDB? I freely admit I'm not well up on prices. On the other hand I don't care either. No thank you I'll buy privately! Most people I know in my circles pay rent of SGD3k upwards or are more interested in buing in at the SGD 1mio+ property market - BTW booming at the moment since you left. If you feel really entrepreneurial: interest/mortgage rates low to buy and speculate for real money. Top tax rate Singapore SGD 320k+ 22%. Top Thai tax 37% on THB 4mio+ (SGD180k). You telling me I should be smart to do something dodgy like you? Your appraisal was based on who was making most money. A sad way of looking at life if you ask me. I had some great times in Thailand on very little. But if you really insist on measuring on that sad scale, you're way below me sir...

Edited July 11, 2007 by AmericanGuy1066

[ThaiWanderer68]

Just curious sgthai

How many white faces have you ever seen running a stall in Chatuchak market as you suggest? In anticipation of your answer, please don't tell me that means there's an opportunity either. lol

[ThaiWanderer68]

BTW Small tip when you say you have your Thai nominees and Thai employees (who you don't pay), I hope you never insult them in the same way you seem to dismiss others on this board. You really wouldn't want any sort of tax audit on your business from what I've read. Employees, but not paying them only paying their NI? that will stick out a mile on your books.

BTW2 I loved the quote: "it is legal whatever you sell as long as the police say so..." lol. What happens when your friendly policeman moves on, or a sees you making money and decides he'd prefer the money is his own pocket instead and speaks to his native policeman.... lol

Each to their own though...

Edited July 11, 2007 by ThaiWanderer68

[AmericanGuy1066]

SGTHAI

[/url]

To clarify a bit mor of what I meant about HDB and CPF among others, the following may be of interest, as you clearly know very little about your country's housing scheme. PERHAPS YOU COULD EXPLAIN WHY THE SINGAPORE GOVT WEBSITE TOTALLY CONTRADICTS YOU:

Let me expand :

http://askhdb.hdb.gov.sg/

Question: Q:What is CPF Housing Grant?

[ Home Seekers > Buying A Resale Flat > Buyers' Enquiries on > Financial Schemes ] A:The CPF Housing Grant is a housing subsidy to assist primarily first-timer citizen married couples to buy a resale flat from the open market. The grant can be used for the initial downpayment of to reduce the housing loan quantum for purchase of the resale flat.

Question: Q:How can I finance my new flat?

[ Home Seekers > Buying a New HDB Flat (e-Sales) > Financing your Purchase > Plan for the Purchase ] A:You may need to make part of the payment in cash and the rest with your CPF savings, and to take out a housing loan. For more information on housing loans, visit our 'Financing Your Home'.

Further on funding: "http://www.hdb.gov.sg/fi10/fi10201p.nsf/WP...ly?OpenDocument

"Eligibility Conditions for HDB Concessionary loan

HDB provides housing loans at concessionary interest rate to eligible flat buyers, subject to HDB's credit assessment and prevailing mortgage loan criteria....

Or there's the quote from sgthai:

"Our PAP govt does not subsidies for anything at all.

Not for school,not for medical,not for old folks home,not for hospital,not for the unfortunate etc."

I'll leave it to others to decide which one they prefer to believe: sgthai or Singapore Government website. From my perspective there's so many holes in a lot of what you've said it's hard to believe the rest.

Edited July 11, 2007 by AmericanGuy1066

[sonicdragon]

BTW Sonic interesting comment about an economists perspective.

About Sing HDB and CPF comments, following may be of interest in clarifying some of the things i meant

http://askhdb.hdb.gov.sg/

Question: Q:What is CPF Housing Grant?

[ Home Seekers > Buying A Resale Flat > Buyers' Enquiries on > Financial Schemes ] A:The CPF Housing Grant is a housing subsidy to assist primarily first-timer citizen married couples to buy a resale flat from the open market. The grant can be used for the initial downpayment of to reduce the housing loan quantum for purchase of the resale flat.

Question: Q:How can I finance my new flat?

[ Home Seekers > Buying a New HDB Flat (e-Sales) > Financing your Purchase > Plan for the Purchase ] A:You may need to make part of the payment in cash and the rest with your CPF savings, and to take out a housing loan. For more information on housing loans, visit our 'Financing Your Home'.

Further on funding: "http://www.hdb.gov.sg/fi10/fi10201p.nsf/WP...ly?OpenDocument

"Eligibility Conditions for HDB Concessionary loan

HDB provides housing loans at concessionary interest rate to eligible flat buyers, subject to HDB's credit assessment and prevailing mortgage loan criteria....

Thanks for that. I think we may have our wires crossed or maybe you didn't understand me - I know that the government provides housing subsidy and I did not say otherwise. Indeed it is, and if it didn't the very fabric of singapore would disintegrate. I am simply pointing out that the government is raising money from its citizens in doing so, and therefore it is an (unofficial/hidden) tax. sgthai made a statment about high taxes in singapore, and knowing singapore very well I took this to mean these kinds of unofficial hidden taxes. As you rightly said the headline official taxes (income tax, gst, stamp duty etc) in Singapore are very low and in fact there are some fantastic tax benefits to new businesses. I just think there has been a misunderstanding between you and sgthai on this point. When I worked in singapore for many years almost all local staff in our office (who were well paid by comparison to the average local rates) complained about these indirect hidden taxes so it's no surprise to hear sgthai saying similar things.

[canadiangirl]

I really enjoyed reading this topic and learning how everyone from different country,culture and age group giving their own experience and opinion about doing business in Thailand.

I'm a chinese Singaporean in my late 40's and has been working and doing business in many countries especially in SE asia.

I, myself have been working in Thailand for the past 3yrs.

Many farang knows alot about legality and thai culture.

How about unspoken streets rules and regulation?

This can only be reveal to one if one actually gain their trust and confident.

Yes no one wants to live more poorly when one actually comes from a develop country.

But we can learn from the thais how they make their money from a small capital and together with our experience and knowledge we can improve on it thus elevating our standard of living in Thailand too.

And all it takes is to start a small business and make it grow.

Just use your brain and let others do your work.

Hi sgthai,

thanks for this post. I found it was one of the most interesting ones I have read on TV so far. The Chinese have a strong reputation for being shrewd businesspeople in SEA, so I found it very interesting to hear your opinions on starting a new business.

thanks! -CG

[AmericanGuy1066]

EUREKA!

I finally have it. A way to talk like with like some of you guys on entrepreneurial businesses practices. It fits perfectly with Canadiagirls quote about "shrewd Chinese businessmen", JimsKnight's quote about the Chinese being "10-50 years ahead" in the way they think, and Sgthai's grassroots Chinatown solutions.

It's a perfect answer to this thread. I reckon it would cost under THB 10k to set up. Read on...

First I must confess it wasn't my idea. I saw it first on BBC World TV this morning (Thu12Jul). Basically an entrepreneurial businessman in China found a way to cut costs on making those white buns, which I think are a type of dimsum. Instead of using meat he was using cardboard treated with industrial solvent - much cheaper and you can pick up waste off the streets - perfect for BKK. He was then selling the buns among others to (get this please...!) his "friends and neighbours" among others. Tho' he wasn't eating them himself for some strange reason.

So go for it. Chinese white dim sum buns with cardboard treated with solvent instead of using meat. There'll be plenty of customers down the market. I guess this could be extended to shredded cardboard + bleach instead of papaya in somtam, the possibilities are endless Chinese style with your friends and family as key target customers.

Combine this with sgthai's "as long as the police say it's OK" rule, and setting up companies, and who knows before long you could have a franchise like Yakult or 7/11

[sgthai]

Just curious sgthai

How many white faces have you ever seen running a stall in Chatuchak market as you suggest? In anticipation of your answer, please don't tell me that means there's an opportunity either. lol

Dear Thaiwanderer68,

Please read my post properly before you make any silly comment that might back fire to you.

I've mentioned the word trusted friend or spouse.

You mean when a farang owns a stall he must be there to sell his ware???

So I guess the boss of starbuck is also serving coffee or the boss of fed ex is delivering the parcel himself?

I've also mentioned that one can just used his brain and let other do his work.

And hey we are talking about people who is interested in business or want to make some extra money but have very low capital.

Of course if one is rich he don't have to come in here to seek advice or enlightenment.

If money is aplenty one can just go to any management consultant and they will be able to invest in any business of their choice.

Please understand the topic of this discussion.