Streetsmarts - How To Acquire Some

[Heng]

Get thrown in prison. You'll get learn all kinds of things real quick.

[MTW]

Yes, of course this has happened to me or I wouldn't feel that I could comment on it. I am a woman here, met Thai women, not bar girls, and I am not gay, and was ripped off so many ways, lied to, manipulated, and suffered financially because of it. And not because I tried to get into business here. Just trying to be a good friend back to my Thai friends, who really did nothing they didn't get paid for.

And please save the comments that I must have deserved it, I am stupid, whatever. I did however, stupidly have ideas about honor that do not exist here. I think many Western people have these same ideas, right or wrong.

[JimmyTheMook]

I often read on TV, "get a good Thai friend" to help you get lower prices, avoid scams, find a good girlfreind, etc.

If you are new to Thailand, I think this is the worst advise. Unless you are an executive working with others at your same level in Thailand, maybe some of these people can become friends that are not looking for financial benefits. But Thai people don't seem, in my opinion, to feel that people are really friends until they have known them for years, and years, and years. And that doesn't mean they trust those same friends the way a western person might.

Usually when you are new here, you will only meet people that are used to working with tourists, and know how to financially benefit from these situations. Your new "friend" will want to take you shopping, find you a house, get you a car, because they make commission. Thai people are aware of this situation much more than many western people are and just don't seem to feel offended by it in the same way I feel offended by it. Maybe it is because, if you are Thai, you have gotten commission some times in your life, so paying it doesn't seem so unfair.

Some Thai people know we don't expect this from their friendship, that is why it is kept mostly secret here. I don't at all mind to pay people for work they do, when I know they are working for me. However I do mind paying higher prices for most of what I do, because they are getting commission, when at the same time I am giving them credit as being such good, caring friends, better than western friends, and giving them gifts, feeling like I owe them to loan them money, and I am also bending over backwards to make them happy, when in fact, they are only doing their job.

And to be clear, I am only talking about "friends", platonic relationships.

Would make a good topic , this whole commisson thing that goes on here.

Seems someone always has their hand out.

[jdinasia]

Yes, of course this has happened to me or I wouldn't feel that I could comment on it. I am a woman here, met Thai women, not bar girls, and I am not gay, and was ripped off so many ways, lied to, manipulated, and suffered financially because of it. And not because I tried to get into business here. Just trying to be a good friend back to my Thai friends, who really did nothing they didn't get paid for.

And please save the comments that I must have deserved it, I am stupid, whatever. I did however, stupidly have ideas about honor that do not exist here. I think many Western people have these same ideas, right or wrong.

Never happened to me ... in fact horror stories like yours sadly made me keep people at arms length that in the end helped me a great deal ... (for no financial gain!)

[blizzard]

why, people in usa get commission to find u places to live, etc. you steer business to particular place you get paid.

i want to know how her love life goes if she has trubble with businesspeople.

Edited May 31, 2007 by blizzard

[torito]

Yes, of course this has happened to me or I wouldn't feel that I could comment on it. I am a woman here, met Thai women, not bar girls, and I am not gay, and was ripped off so many ways, lied to, manipulated, and suffered financially because of it. And not because I tried to get into business here. Just trying to be a good friend back to my Thai friends, who really did nothing they didn't get paid for.

And please save the comments that I must have deserved it, I am stupid, whatever. I did however, stupidly have ideas about honor that do not exist here. I think many Western people have these same ideas, right or wrong.

Very sympathetic of MTV as myself also lost significant amount of money in a farang fraud and legal corruption....I think this is a subject for another topic as I am aware that many busines people struggles with many aspect such as the one experienced by MTV. The business stuff in here is hard for farangs.

[blizzard]

ahh maybe mtw was trying to buy thai friends.

you cant buy friends, just like you cant buy a wife(thai one of course.....lol)

[MTW]

I am glad stories like mine have helped you. Although sometimes when I post about experiences like this I get called "bitter, twisted, a Thai basher" which really offends me.

I would like to give a small example of my Thai sister. After knowing her about 1.5 years, and knowing now that she was taking commission from many large purchases, here is an example that to me is just ridiculous. I invited her to go to Bali with me for about a month. (She was jobless at this time, due to her own choice, mostly I think now because she made so much money from me, that she didn't need to work anymore.) Anyway, I offered to pay for everything while we were gone. She needed a passport, and against my advise, waited too long in Chiang Mai to get one. So I paid for a RT ticket to BKK to get the passport, and gave her expense money. Of course she kept it all, never gave me the change, of which there should have been plenty. Then, when we had to spend the night in BKK, in order to pick up her passport, the hotel I booked directly, was suddenly more expensive. They made every excuse, including that they thought I was Thai when I booked, and I could not now get this price. She stayed quiet. Then suddenly, the manager came out to tell me what a good friend " Mr. X" is, and I certainly must pay this higher price. Well, MR. X is her boyfriend, and even though I avoided letting her make the reservations, and never asked my friend for advise about which hotel we should stay at, they still called afterwards, to try to get commission.

She tried to get commssion, on a trip I was taking her on for free, when I had to stay in BKK only because we had to pick up her passport, that I also paid for!! I realize this is small money, but why would you want to risk this for small money, if you were her? There are many, many things I could tell everyone, that included big money.

As well, I would like to say, that a couple of years ago when I had a house in an area of Chiang Mai that flooded the most in the giant flood here, that they found for me, she called to say that maybe I was going to have a flood and should move my car. However, I didn't know where to move my car, or how I would get back to my house in order to try to protect my things, and I had dogs I didn't feel good about leaving there. My friend and her husband were not living in an area that flooded, they were not working, and they never offered to come help me. I lost everything, all my furnitute, my computer, aircons, kitchen things, except some things that were on the second floor.

Then they took commission on the next house I rented, told me I could have dogs, in a moo baan that doens't allow dogs. So I never moved in. They also stole many of the stuff I put into storage at their house, or let the neighbors take it, asked to borrow more than 120,000 baht when I was homeless, which I gave them, etc. The flood was a great opportunity for them to get all the commissions over again because I needed to buy everything again. The story is so long and ridiculous. And yes, I guess I was stupid, but I never thought that some friend I had done a lot for, wouldn't even give me a free beer at the guesthouse they bought with mostly my money. But that happened too.

We are always warned about bar girls, but not about general Thai people here. I thought because I was a woman, and not getting involved in the sex industry, and not getting romantically involved with anyone, that I would not be a target for this sort of thing.

[jdinasia]

MTW .... you are right in your self-assessment above.

Being conned once can happen to anyone ... over and over takes real talent!

[blizzard]

girl you should post in womens forum there

you would get a lot of support.

here people would say get a clue, being jacked over and over again by your sis and you go back for more.......

you worst than any of the farang s that have posted with their silly story.

hope you learned. remember not all thais like the ones you describes, just most...........lol.

ay least one person heeded all the advice about bargirls, unfortunately one that doesnt go for them......lol.

Edited May 31, 2007 by blizzard

[LinkPopularity]

Get a good Thai friend and most problems can be avoided. Not easy if you're new here.

sure, like your Thai friend is not going to rip you off ... LOL !

to me, it's very easy, I see them as little children, serious, look at 5-6 year olds ... they are really very cruel and mean to each other. In the west we teach them to be human and civalized, here hardly ... but then again, the games they play are so obvious, it's so easy to win from them !

[MTW]

To Blizzard: I dont' have any problem with BUSINESS people.

I have a problem with people who pretend to help you, as a friend, but who are really business people in disguise. I have a problem, because I always tried to pay them back (not buy them), but didn't know they were getting paid for the work they did, and getting paid now double or triple because I was also paying them back.

I have problems with people who lie to me to get me to spend money in the wrong places.

What does my love life have to do with this as I stated that none of these relationships were sexual and I assume you can figure out that that includes romanitc.

And why does the fact that I am a nice honest person, and cannot predict the levels people will go here to make money, since this does not happen in the countries I have lived in before, nor would I ever do things like this, why does this make you think that my love life is screwed up??? And therefore, I am screwed up?

And you very well can buy a wife or a husband here. Those spouses may not be the people you expect them to be, just like the friends I got were not what I expected. But I am certainly not the bad person in this senario and was not trying to buy them. If I had bought them I wouldn't be angry and feel ripped off. I was trying to be a good friend, based on my culture, which is not relevant here, other than to say some Thai people know how to lie to us, based on what we expect due to our culture.

[blizzard]

no disrespect miss. dont be so uptight. i was thinking if your business deal are so horrible your lovelife must be great...........lol.

but if you think you can buy a GOOD spouse here than no wonder you get yourself into the situatins you get yourself into.

if you think people dont get screwed in other countries than i dont know what to say.

ps: jasia think you screwed up also, not only i.

[lannarebirth]

MTW, if you still reside in CM, I suggest you avail yourself of the Chiang Mai subforum here on Thai Visa. There will you will receive useful help from other CM locals and would be making yourself less dependent on the "kindness" of friends. Sooner or later, if we intend to stay here, we have to start learning to do most things for ourselves.

Edited May 31, 2007 by lannarebirth

[rgs2001uk]

mtw,

the thais already know this, dont worry its not just farangs they do it to each other as well.

there is an old thai saying that translates as follows.

its easy to find a friend to eat with

its not so easy to find one to die with.

why do you think thais dont actually have what you and i would call friends, they have accquaintances.

most thais tend to be family orientated, and do not trust people outside of the family circle.

[torito]

i said althought it is a small part it is what the world thinks of when they think of los. sorry if it offends you people.

To be more specific, people of your world....

I have probably visited all the places that you have....but I do not glorify this, neither I intend to force others to believe that this is Thailand, as I also have experienced the other 98% of its reality, which is great.

I have had many visitor from overseas, young people, adult people and all of them have the impression of Thailand been a great place to visit, cheap prices, very nice people, nice scenery, great food, hectic, exotic........very beautiful woman interest to the single one as they can see them everywhere...couples admire the beauty of the woman in here..

None of them have come here because of the sex industry neither was their first and last impression of this country.

This is a streetsmart lesson....be careful when listening farangs defining Thailand...some views may be totally simplistic and narrowminded and for sure will give you a wrong impression of the actual facts.

[JimsKnight]

a few things that come to mind :

read and speak thai.

when out, keep your wits about you (dont get blind drunk).

be the man in grey (that means keep low profile, covert, observe rather than be observed).

learn the streets and sois, the ones you frequent(for work,home,going out,gong shopping,doing errands) you should have a crystal clear mental map.You should also be familiar with the key routes in and out of your city(N,E,S,W).

be familiar with the common scams.

be coy about giving out personal details to strangers(name, what you do, where you live etc..), extract information, dont volunteer it

carry passport, cash, credit card, phone discreetly in front pockets.This is all you need to get out of most situation and make a quick escape.No buldges or bags.

dont do anything illegal.

etc.....

Well said kia you are in the groove!

But in addition, carry a 'decoy' wallet stuffed with useless cards (not credit cards but reward cards etc) and obsolete currency and coins. Find yourself stuck in a jam and need to get away? Throw the would-be mugger(s) your decoy in a convincing manner turn tail and skeddadle! Go-go gadget legs:)

When you reach a safe distance laugh out loud at outwitting the numbskulls and have a few cool ones as a reward

If by some chance they catch up with you / encounter you again ensure you carry some pepper spray or CS Gas (tazer maybe) as a last resort...As far as weapons go carry only this sort. Knives are a no-no as are firearms, these sorts of weapons are designed to kill and trying to talk your way out of maimed / dead people to the cops is near impossible.

Store passport in a safe place and carry photocopys of it.

Build up a network of trusted friends you can call upon if your up shit creek without a paddle!

It *May* be an idea to get to know the local cops and play the nice guy, you may earn their respect and be give their card to call upon if your in a fix (This can be a 'get out of jail free card' depending on what rank he is). On the otherhand they might be bad apples who mark you as an 'easy touch' for favours and cash.

Use your own transport whenever possible but learn the lay of the land when it comes to trains and buses etc.

In Thailand its an underground sport to see if its possible to fool the foolish into parting with big money.

Therefore, don't trust anybody with your money, don't buy into anything thats not in your name. Be wary of Farang or Thai who are desperate for investment. This isn't Thai bashing, its a statement of fact for anyone thinking I'm attacking the thais.

Torito

Sorry to hear that you got screwed over, we've all been there, some a lot more than others. But take strength from the old farang saying 'That which doesn't kill you, makes you stronger' and 'What goes around, comes around'. Those rip-off factory 'friends' of yours will get there just desserts, one way or the other...

Edited May 31, 2007 by JimsKnight

[qwertz]

i said althought it is a small part it is what the world thinks of when they think of los. sorry if it offends you people.

To be more specific, people of your world....

I have probably visited all the places that you have....but I do not glorify this, neither I intend to force others to believe that this is Thailand, as I also have experienced the other 98% of its reality, which is great.

I have had many visitor from overseas, young people, adult people and all of them have the impression of Thailand been a great place to visit, cheap prices, very nice people, nice scenery, great food, hectic, exotic........very beautiful woman interest to the single one as they can see them everywhere...couples admire the beauty of the woman in here..

None of them have come here because of the sex industry neither was their first and last impression of this country.

This is a streetsmart lesson....be careful when listening farangs defining Thailand...some views may be totally simplistic and narrowminded and for sure will give you a wrong impression of the actual facts.

T, this is a point well worth taking on board.

If I only listened to the farangs on the bar scene, I'd have a totally wrong and sweeping impression of the land.

But I find it hard to believe that so many grown men from developed countries can be so taken in.

That's one reason why I started this thread.

I can understand if it's a guy who only delivered the post or taught school all his life and was never exposed to trickery.

Speaking of farangs in LOS, there are lots of losers there who will take you just as quickly as a Thai would.

They can be quite plausible with their professed local knowledge and business skills.

An Aussie cousin of mine has been waiting 14 months for the delivery of silk he paid $9,000 for to a Brit.

Just one example of how a trusting guy and a straight businessman can be shafted.

[blizzard]

no offense torito.

but your description of los can be applied to any asian country similiar to thailand, vietnam, malayasia, etc.

what is it that people whose passports with stamp and stamps of thai visa come for???????????/

let me put it this way. the next time los makes the national news what will it be in reference too. the nice scenery, good food, cheap prices. maybe politics, but more often than not a caught pedophile or something similiar.

Edited May 31, 2007 by blizzard

[MTW]

Blizzard, obviously you are Thai or at least Asian, because you cannot refrain from calling my situation a "business deal" and this is obviously how Thais see it. But if it is all above board and honest, why do farangs not know about it?

Let me tell you again, these were NOT business deals. These things I complain about were purposely posed as frienships, as well as they made efforts to be my friends and I did not seek them out. But obviously, being Thai I guess, you cannot help but see these as only a business relationship because you understand Thailand. Well, in my country, nobody can get commission because they go to a furniture store with you.

Sorry, but when a woman, your same age, manages the hotel you have stayed at, at various times, for months, and she tries to be your friend, and you are also a woman, and not gay, not a lot seems strange about that. When she tells you she wants to go shopping with you, because she likes to go shopping, not a lot seems strange about that.

With all the various books about Thailand and Thai culture, which I read, none of them details the commission system as it is here. Why is that??????????

While there are some people on this thread, and others, which post something nice or in agreement with my experiences here, there are many more who decide to say something negative. Sometimes I think it is because you are mostly men, and think men are too smart to let this happen to them. Well, let me say that men in Thailand, also have an immediate peer group of farangs here to learn from and farang women do not have this benefit. Also, men, don't seem to be naturally people pleasers as most women, anywhere in the world, are raised to be.

I write here so that I can hopefully give some advise to newbies who are like me. Not to humiliate myself. I can at least not be ashamed for being taken advantage of, because I am a nice person who cares about my friends, as compared to some others who are manipulated because of their gender, and the sexual paradise they find Thailand to be. And by the way, how manipulated can a 50 plus year old man feel, when he is manipulated to pay extra money to his 18 year old bar girl????

And I don't think I should write on the women's forum so I can get more sympathy, as this shouldn't have anything to do with gender, and in Thailand, this is a cultural thing, not a gender thing. I happen to think that many farang men have been taken advantage of by Thai friends, but are unwilling to admit this, or not able to see it.

And to Blizzard, if you think "friends in the USA" would do this to you, they would have to be from a culture like Thailand, and the house you are renting would also have to be from people of the same nature. American people might suggest a house for you to rent, because their friend is the owner, but they will not be getting a percentage of it. And if you hire a broker you will know exactly what they earn from their business.

Yes, I was taken advantage of. I could not speak or read the language. I did not understand the culture even though I made every attempt to do so. So what????

[blizzard]

good luck girl.

the more you post the less sense you make.

[jdinasia]

And I don't think I should write on the women's forum so I can get more sympathy, as this shouldn't have anything to do with gender, and in Thailand, this is a cultural thing, not a gender thing. I happen to think that many farang men have been taken advantage of by Thai friends, but are unwilling to admit this, or not able to see it.

I am sure some men have been scammed ... and they speak of it often. But I doubt many have been scammed by someone they are not married to on the same scale that you have managed!

Yes, I was taken advantage of. I could not speak or read the language. I did not understand the culture even though I made every attempt to do so. So what????

You were taken advantage of over and over <or at least you think you were!> Most people learn lessons in one shot without having to repeat it over and over!

again Stories like yours did me a great disservice in my first year or two in Thailand as I was always looking for an ulterior motive that simply was not there! I have managed to live here for only 4 years so far, but have so far not been a victim of a serious scam even once! Granted I researched my move and had visited a few times before I moved here! but that is just doing my due diligence!

[blizzard]

she not gonna hear you sir. she only responds to me..........................lol.

[torito]

let me put it this way. the next time los makes the national news what will it be in reference too. the nice scenery, good food, cheap prices. maybe politics, but more often than not a caught pedophile or something similiar.

It is quite obvious 'blizzard'. News do not sell for being nice, but for been alarmings and especulative...

If you read newspapers there is a section named "Tourism", "Travel", "Leasure" or simmilar. This sections are allocated exclusivelly to these matters an in there you will read about the wonder of Thailand...island to be visited, beaches, diving excursions, etc. And if you surf the internet you will see the quantity of sites that talk about the wonders of Thailand.

In any newspaper or magazine in the world you will see frequently sexy girls on the fisrt page. And this is because sex sells. The fact that western pedophile explotes the poverty of third world countries is neither an argument that demostrates your view of Thailand.

I've got nothing against the 2% that you enjoy blizzard. I know it too. And I saw it in Philippines, in Indonesia, in HK, and Singapore, in Mamaysia and even in China.....Your narrow views give a distorted and incomplete description of this country.

[MTW]

What is it with some of you???? I must not have researched Thailand before I came here. I did do a lot of research, can you point me to any book you know about which details the commission system here?

"The more I post the less sense I am making" ...&lt;deleted&gt;????

This is why I dont' hang out with any of you in bars and therefore don't learn the real scoop about Thailand until I have experienced it myself.

[MTW]

And by the way, my first trip to LOS was in 1985.

[blizzard]

sir im not disagreeing with you. i enjoy bkk sex scene. i know bkk has a lot more , other than sex sex sex.

I KNOW IT IS ONLY A SMALL PART OF THAILAND.

BUT THE REST OF THE WORLD DONT KNOW. their perception is that los is a sex place, and let me tell you what they think that goes on here does go on here.

Edited May 31, 2007 by blizzard

[MTW]

And to jdinasia, I suppose being taken advantage of, screwed over, is BETTER, if you have a romantic relationship with them???

Whatever. Sorry I ever brought this up. My best advise to all newcomers to Thailand is: Get a Thai friend who will show you the ropes. Get a Thai friend who will get you a discount for everything you buy. Put your house in this Thai person's name. Get a joint account at the bank with this same person. Let this Thai person be part of your company in Thailand. Have this person find you a spouse.

Get all the Thai people you know, visas to work in your country. Adopt their children. Give them all citizenship in your country. And after you have done all that, blame yourself for being an idiot, because you did not understand the culture, you must not have done the proper research.

It is not the Thai people's fault that they had to trick you out of your money, if you were really a generous person, you would have donated most of your money to them. I mean, investment into the lottery is an important investment into Thai life. How can Thai people ever be "lucky" if some farang doesn't support them so they can spend most of their money on the lottery?? Do you really expect them to spend their whiskey money on the lottery???

[jdinasia]

And to jdinasia, I suppose being taken advantage of, screwed over, is BETTER, if you have a romantic relationship with them???

Whatever. Sorry I ever brought this up. My best advise to all newcomers to Thailand is: Get a Thai friend who will show you the ropes. Get a Thai friend who will get you a discount for everything you buy. Put your house in this Thai person's name. Get a joint account at the bank with this same person. Let this Thai person be part of your company in Thailand. Have this person find you a spouse.

Get all the Thai people you know, visas to work in your country. Adopt their children. Give them all citizenship in your country. And after you have done all that, blame yourself for being an idiot, because you did not understand the culture, you must not have done the proper research.

It is not the Thai people's fault that they had to trick you out of your money, if you were really a generous person, you would have donated most of your money to them. I mean, investment into the lottery is an important investment into Thai life. How can Thai people ever be "lucky" if some farang doesn't support them so they can spend most of their money on the lottery?? Do you really expect them to spend their whiskey money on the lottery???

LOL

but do you not ask yourself WHY tjis happens REPEATEDLY to you but not many others?

[qwertz]

That's not really the point JD.

I think MTW's input is most relevant.

It's not about how many times one person has been shafted but rather the fact that the risk exists for anyone who's not wise to it.

And it's true too that the only place you're likely to get the naked truth on the "commission" system is a forum like this.

Anyway, a fee that's demanded for basically just steering a punter at a colleague for a good ripping is not a commission.

It's a middle man mark up for doing little or nothing.

That's a bloody slender basis for a friendship which I deduce MTW was primarily looking for.

Too many people, and I name no specific nationality here, abuse friendship when it's offered and regard gregarious people as fools to be fleeced.

Read Torito or a good few others about what happens when you trust.

Or I'll get my cousin to pass me an insight on his first and last business venture in LOS.

And his so called (Brit) partner was supposed be a friend.

I can't imagine what an enemy would do for you.

I don't know if the tricky farangs taught the Thais or if it was vice versa.

The fact remains, it's endemic and it's this sort of behaviour that fuels the way people like Blizz think about LOS.