Streetsmarts - How To Acquire Some

[Pepe']

Yo Pepe, you learned yours the hard way too I guess.

Nothin' ain't worth nothin' 'less it's free.

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"Ey, yo, are you lookin' are me. Are you lookin' at me! I don't see anybody else here?

'Cause if your lookin' at me your gonna have a problem." - Robert DeNiro from Taxi

Still learning bro', still learning...

[phosamton]

Admitting your own fault in being scammed does not minimize how wrong it is to scam others, it's just acknowledging your power to prevent it by keeping eyes open and listening to your inner protective voice...that is a part of having streetsmarts

After 3+ years here I was "robbed" recently, and it put my ego in check, as I had thought I had been around the block in BKK enough not to be scammed in Thailand (was outside of BKK, foolishly let my guard down, thought that since I speak some Thai, live here, etc that made me special…was not in a tourist place either). Upon reflection my instincts were shouting warnings at me, but I chose to be naïve.

[Pepe']

Admitting your own fault in being scammed does not minimize how wrong it is to scam others, it's just acknowledging your power to prevent it by keeping eyes open and listening to your inner protective voice...that is a part of having streetsmarts

After 3+ years here I was "robbed" recently, and it put my ego in check, as I had thought I had been around the block in BKK enough not to be scammed in Thailand (was outside of BKK, foolishly let my guard down, thought that since I speak some Thai, live here, etc that made me special…was not in a tourist place either). Upon reflection my instincts were shouting warnings at me, but I chose to be naïve.

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Always trust your "gut." I know easier said than done.

[qwertz]

That's the word I was looking for, Pepe.

[Pepe']

That's the word I was looking for, Pepe.

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You mean lookin' don't ya...

[qwertz]

Right on.

There's some very good input on this thread.

Stuff like this is a must for the first timers and the unwary.

But let's face it, the scams are the same in Thailand as anywhere else.

It's just that we maybe drink and relax more when we're there and are more likely to get blindsided.

Add to that a touch of holiday romance and it has all the makings of the road to hel_l for some people.

[torito]

Right on.

There's some very good input on this thread.

Stuff like this is a must for the first timers and the unwary.

But let's face it, the scams are the same in Thailand as anywhere else.

It's just that we maybe drink and relax more when we're there and are more likely to get blindsided.

Add to that a touch of holiday romance and it has all the makings of the road to hel_l for some people.

And the more we learn their scams the better they get......always one step ahead of us!

[The Skipper]

Scams are occuring in every country, sure.

Very few places on the level of Thailand though. Nigeria is probably worse.

Thailand survives on Farming and Tourists.

In the rice field, a parasite is spotted, you do somthing. Eliminate the problem or lose the crop. Go hungry.

In the Tourist field, a parasite is spotted and NOTHING is done. They multiply, they destroy... and that is what is happening to Thailand.

Does this guy work for the TAT?

Of course not, yet he is out there hustling Tourists.... all day long... for years.

I wrote the TAT but recieved NO reply. Not suprised either.

And what about these guys?

Are they Taxi Drivers or professional scammers posing as Taxi Drivers?

They have zero interest in transporting tourists.

We all know, scamming tourists is their life.

EVERYBODY KNOWS IT.

Should'nt they be chased away by now?

Of course. That would be the right thing to do. We all know that.

The big issue in Thailand is the Authorities condone it.

No help for the victims. Nothing. That's not OK.

You can say they need to get smart, deserved to be cheated, TIT or go home or whatever. Cheating guests is not right. I don't care how long you've been here or how warped your sense of fair play has gotten.

Should some family really have to be on their game, be street smart to go on a Holiday and not get cheated all day long?

Edited June 7, 2007 by The Skipper

[bendix]

Are the TAT people on Sukhumvit Road scamming anyone? So far as i'm aware, it's nothing more than an attempt to hustle up some business to Taipan Hotel and sell some timeshare. Big deal. Just say no. When I first arrived I made the mistake of being jai dee and genuinely thought it was a tourist survey. I gave them my details. Next morning, I got a phone call saying how lucky I was to be awarded a free night at the hotel, in return for spending some time talking about stuff. Guess what i did? Just said no.

Are the tuk-tuk drivers scamming people? Yeah, i suppose so but EVERY guidebook I ever read warned about tuk tuk drivers, closed temples, jewellry shop frauds.

These things are annoying. They are an annoying part of life in pretty much every part of Asia, and well beyond too. But that's all they are - petty annoyances which can be learned about by a bit of basic research and that using that old chestnut - just say no. Noone, so far as i know, is having a gun pointed to their heads.

Edited June 7, 2007 by bendix

[torito]

There are non-street scams that one have to learn to deal with in here....this includes corrupted behaviour, "interpretations" of law and others when liaising with official matters....see below

I have just moved from England to Thailand.

Before i left England, I sent four tea chest size boxes of personal items cd's, books,photos, kitchen stuff, camera and lenses, breadmaker, etc, to Thailand.

Two weeks ago,

when the boxes got to Thailand, i paid an agent to clear it all through customs and deliver it to my new home. The agent now tells me i must pay another 7000 baht import tax for some of the items (not sure which ones) before i can get any of my things, oh, and now he tells me that two of my boxes have broken open.

None of the items are new, they are all used.

I understood that you were allowed to bring in one consignment of personal items TAX FREE

Am i being ripped off ?

Regards

Jaiyenyen

[Neeranam]

BTW, I found it a little hurtful too when a pretty shop assistant in the Big C sat by me in the coffee bar and asked me how I'd like to go bowling, with dinner afterwards of course.

She didn't know me from Adam but I knew her because she'd run the same number on a friend of mine the week before.

She invited the whole neighbourhood, who partied and left without a thank you when the bill came.

It's insulting because it's so bloody insincere if that's all we're worth there.

Her face was a picture when I asked if she had no more time for Alan after cleaning him out and told her I preferred BGs because they are at least honest about what they do.

Just so you know, men are targeted by the predators too.

Unbelievable.

A GIRL ASKS YOU OUT, TAKES THE WHOLE NEIGHBOURHOOD AND GIVES YOU THE BILL.

Why on earth did you pay???????????

Walk away.

There are far too many farang wooses about that give us a bad name. I must admit that I used to use this farang reputation to con the conners. One time some girls invited themselves out to a night club in Nontaburi. We had dinner(6 of us), when I overheard them saying that the farang would pay. Simple - off to the toilet, over a wall and jyump in a taxi, after getting totaly smashed on them of course.

[Jai Dee]

A number of posts containing personal attacks and flames have been deleted from this thread.

This is a public warning... next time it happens the offender(s) will be given a holiday from ThaiVisa.

Please keep the discussion civil and respectful.

[qwertz]

BTW, I found it a little hurtful too when a pretty shop assistant in the Big C sat by me in the coffee bar and asked me how I'd like to go bowling, with dinner afterwards of course.

She didn't know me from Adam but I knew her because she'd run the same number on a friend of mine the week before.

She invited the whole neighbourhood, who partied and left without a thank you when the bill came.

It's insulting because it's so bloody insincere if that's all we're worth there.

Her face was a picture when I asked if she had no more time for Alan after cleaning him out and told her I preferred BGs because they are at least honest about what they do.

Just so you know, men are targeted by the predators too.

Unbelievable.

A GIRL ASKS YOU OUT, TAKES THE WHOLE NEIGHBOURHOOD AND GIVES YOU THE BILL.

Why on earth did you pay???????????

Walk away.

There are far too many farang wooses about that give us a bad name. I must admit that I used to use this farang reputation to con the conners. One time some girls invited themselves out to a night club in Nontaburi. We had dinner(6 of us), when I overheard them saying that the farang would pay. Simple - off to the toilet, over a wall and jyump in a taxi, after getting totaly smashed on them of course.

Sorry, Neeranam, maybe I didn't make myself clear.

I naturally refused this generous invitation.

[Neeranam]

Oh, that's ok then.

[soundman]

Right on.

There's some very good input on this thread.

Stuff like this is a must for the first timers and the unwary.

But let's face it, the scams are the same in Thailand as anywhere else.

It's just that we maybe drink and relax more when we're there and are more likely to get blindsided.

Add to that a touch of holiday romance and it has all the makings of the road to hel_l for some people.

Qwertz - write a mini book. I'm sure you can get it published as an addendum to Thailand section of Lonely Planet.

Cheers,

Soundman.

[qwertz]

Soundman, I've already drafted a trilogy for the German market.

Do you reckon it would sell?

[Jet Gorgon]

MTW, you're preaching to the converted.

Lots of BMs have strong views on things.

Me too and I've been yellow carded a time or two for starting bun fights.

Gwertz, you started a bun fight? I cannot believe it. What thread?

MTW, if someone picks on you, just pm me; I'll get the posse and sort 'em out fer ya. Then if you don't hear from me for awhile, you'll know I'm doing time.

Maigo, you are the craziest loon I know. Gotta love it. (I live in a trailer park...)

[qwertz]

Rain, I can't remember what thread, it was back in my newbie days (or am I still a newbie?).

Anyway, I apologised with my usual poetic flair and I think pepe, thaigoon and one or two others have forgiven my acerbic comments.

Not sure about terry though, must stand him a drink some time to atone.

Go easy on MTW, I worry about her.

BTW, I take it you've been scolded too?

[Jet Gorgon]

Rain, I can't remember what thread, it was back in my newbie days (or am I still a newbie?).

Anyway, I apologised with my usual poetic flair and I think pepe, thaigoon and one or two others have forgiven my acerbic comments.

Not sure about terry though, must stand him a drink some time to atone.

Go easy on MTW, I worry about her.

BTW, I take it you've been scolded too?

You talkin to me, boy? Ya, I hurled some unbridled fury, which I thought was justified at the time (it was the wine, officer!).

MTW is a lady? We must protect the ladies here; not many as you know.

Good thread, Gwertz. I guess I have streetsmarts; my advice is to always be on the alert, because you never know what could happen. But, I've been swindled more than a few times, too, and expect to be done again before I pass on. Part of life, init?

[madjbs]

From what I have read MTW seams to be unprotectable! Perhaps she should consider getting some special tattoos!

[torito]

Soundman, I've already drafted a trilogy for the German market.

Do you reckon it would sell?

Seriously why not, do it in both languages....prenty of gringos in here and it is a never end subject. Great way to use some empty times...you can get more documented inputs from the TV guys if you request.

[qwertz]

Rain, I can't remember what thread, it was back in my newbie days (or am I still a newbie?).

Anyway, I apologised with my usual poetic flair and I think pepe, thaigoon and one or two others have forgiven my acerbic comments.

Not sure about terry though, must stand him a drink some time to atone.

Go easy on MTW, I worry about her.

BTW, I take it you've been scolded too?

You talkin to me, boy? Ya, I hurled some unbridled fury, which I thought was justified at the time (it was the wine, officer!).

MTW is a lady? We must protect the ladies here; not many as you know.

Good thread, Gwertz. I guess I have streetsmarts; my advice is to always be on the alert, because you never know what could happen. But, I've been swindled more than a few times, too, and expect to be done again before I pass on. Part of life, init?

Swindled?

Me too!

Not too often but big time.

But not in Thailand and not by Thais.

Because they learned most of their trickery from us.

And we only have ladies on this on this board, just not enough of them, IMO.

I've beeen catching your act, you're good at pushing buttons, keep up the good work.

[MTW]

I don't know what tatoos I should get, but probably I don't want to know.

In case it hasn't been clear to people, these things I wrote about are not happening to me now, or for a reasonably long time.

One poster wrote that he thought I was filtering all my Thai experiences through one bad person, and this was the reason for a lot of problems. This is 75% true. When you come here, don't know anyone, make a few friends, you get most of your recommendations for other workers, meet other people, etc., through those first friends. And as we all know, other people are not likely to tell you something bad about the Thai people who have latched on to you, and will just go along with the flow.

There is a recent thread about some farang people who want to know IF they should warn fellow farangs about situations in which they are being abused, and most farangs here say NOT to say anything out of fear. I believe a lot of things that happened to me, most Thai people don't even think anything is wrong on the face of it. However, after they knew what I was giving to my Thai fake friends, and how it all was really happening, they did not think it was okay, and started to tell me what was going on.

Western people do think it is wrong and we (usually) don't do these things to each other. I feel even shy sometimes about suggesting a hotel to stay at, when I am asked, for fear the person knows about the commission system here, and thinks I am getting some. As well, there are some people on this thread who have said things like "the same scams happen everywhere in the world" and to this I have to say: not true at all. While I have visited more than the average amount of countries, for even most very well-traveled people, first of all, this doesn't come up so much because we are not living there, are not looking for houses, cars, furniture. But even places I have stayed for long periods, this was not an option for the average scam artist. Just try going to any shop, restaurant, hotel, car dealer in America and getting a percentage of the business because you happen to be the taxi driver, or because "you are American" and your friend is from somewhere else.

I would like to say that I am careful to write that "some Thai people" do this or that, not all. But frankly, the commission system here, is due to the Thai business culture at least, and I must say that ALL Thai people know about it, and MOST of them will not point it out to a farang, and you will have to stay here a long time before you understand the depth of it, how easy it is for Thai people to get it on just about everything you do, etc.

I had a tuk-tuk driver try to get commission on my car, when I used him for the first time, to take me to the car dealer, AFTER I had made the deal already, and AFTER I had already left a deposit of 50%. I came back after the rest of my money got wired here, in a tuk-tuk that was called by my hotel. They guy didn't speak any English, and I thought it was strange when, after waiting outside for a while, he came in and sat himself down at a conference table with me, and a couple managers of the dealership. He talked in Thai to them, they gave him a water, and still he didn't leave. I wondered if maybe Thai people didn't understand the difference well between employees, management, and privacy concerns. However, when the tuk-tuk driver and I left, he was in a very good mood, bought me some food snacks, and then went and got drunk all night, and failed to pick me up the next day at the scheduled time. Why? Because he thought he had gotten some big commission. Ever since then, he gives me dirty looks whenever I see him, because I asked the car company if anyone had tried to get a percentage of my purchase, and was informed about him, and that their answer to him, was they would give him something later, but then didn't.

Frankly, I cannot understand why ANY car dealer would give commissions to people, especially like tuk-tuk drivers. Do they think I went out on the street, waived one down, and then asked him what brand and model car I should buy, and then to show me a dealer??? I bought based on an international repuatation, from years of researching cars, from years of car ads I have seen, and from tax concerns in Thailand. And there is only one dealer of the brand car I bought in my area. So where else could I have gone?

But the question I have is why does one of the major car companies in the world, without competing dealerships, feel the need to pay commission to any jerk who walks in with a farang?

Why do we need to pay tuk-tuk drivers 200 baht to go to the zoo, snake show, monkey show, whatever, when they get 100 baht back in commission from each of the 3-4 people in their tuk-tuk??? And then they charge you extra for waiting, and then take you to a shop on the way back and get something there, etc. I think if I was Thai one of the best jobs could be a tuk-tuk driver, at least in the city where I live, as I am sure many of them make as much money than any doctor, lawyer, vet, university teacher.

This is small money, but I mean I had no idea that anyone who went with me to a furniture store would get a huge amount of commission. And that this just meant that I was unable to get a discount on what I was buying, or a very significant discount. And this works against me even more, when I tell my Thai friend, "oh I love this stuff and want it no matter what" because I was unaware that she would tell the owner of the shop what I said, and that my friend would try to get me to pay the highest price in order to earn more money. I expected that since I was paying my friend for their time, was filling their car with gas, or taking my own car/driver, was taking them out for dinners and lunches, drinking and all, and even in my case, on vacations, having birthday parties for them, loaning them money, that they person would feel loyal to me and do what was best for me.

For at least half of my working life, I worked as a purchasing manager for several very large companies, in aerospace, in electronics, and in the retail business. I often was in charge of 50 million dollars or more of purchases. I followed whatever rules were in place for the companies I worked for. Some were very strict and I could not even accept a coffee cup. Some were not and I could accept trips around the world or whatever was offered to me. However, I can honestly say that I never broke the rules, and even for stupid things like office supplies where many companies offer you gifts for buying the regular copy paper and crap, that I never paid more for anything in exchange for a gift, and when I got gifts like food and things that could be shared, I put them out for my fellow office workers to enjoy. But I have heard that people in similar positions to me, accepted gifts like cars and such. You obviously cannot be doing your job properly if you are accepting gifts like that. But sorry, maybe I am an idiot, but I wasn't any more influenced from a 2 lbs. bag of candy, floor seats to sports events, expensive lunches (which just meant I would have to stay later to get my work done), or from hot air balloon trips to the wine country and a spa hotel week, or an invitation to the golf Masters Tournament, whatever. So, yes, I found it hard to believe that people I had to some extent employed here, as well as befriended (and I only say employed because I didn't want to take advantage of them, therefore compensated them) would take advantage of me.

Now I see how stupid I was, if you want to look at it that way. But based ON MY CULTURE, I was not stupid. Certainly if I invite some friend on a free vacation because I know they cannot afford it, I don't expect them to pay me back likewise. But if I call them and ask if they know a gardener I can hire, I don't expect to pay double the price of the gardener because my friend is taking half the money as a percentage for her trouble, and she made the call on my phone when she was at lunch with me that I paid for!!!

I have asked this before on this thread, but I am sure I have read pretty much every book about Thailand that is out there. Can anyone point out where this commission system is told to us????

And after reading this forum for at least a year, I have also never come across anyone talking about it.

And some people have asked how I could be so stupid to go back for more, time and time again. First, there were many more than one person who did this to me. Second, it is difficult to believe everyone you know is in on it to some extent. These people cannot do it alone. Every place they ask for money, has to be a place willing to pay, and that makes them guilty too. Next, I found it difficult to see how people who seemed to like me, and who were already benefiting finacially from my friendship, would want even more than that, because they are so ###### greedy. Getting more than you make in 10 years for free, isn't enough ... well, beyond my comprehension. And last of all, it took some THAI people fed up with how I was getting treated, and telling me what was going on, as well as me looking backwards, and then following up on what had really happened, to find the truth, as well as the main Thai people who were cheating me, getting lazy and thinking they didn't need to do a ###### thing for me, or even be nice to me anymore.

This mostly happened because I got a Thai boyfriend that they didn't hand pick for me, and then they started acting like jerks because they were thinking already that their gravey train had been cut off, and what was the point in pretending to be friends with me anymore??

One smart person on this thread pointed out that the problem was that I had started out as a customer to my fake friend. This was true. I saw this and when I first started seeing some small areas where I thought she was being extra greedy, I took this into account, and then thought that after we had become better friends, this would change, that she would become loyal to me. But she was never very loyal to me, and money came first and foremost, and the more she could make the better. It didn't matter if I handed her $1000 USD that day, if she could get 50 baht commission from something at the same time, she would. I think this is also very short-sighted as I would have helped this friend with any problems that would have come up in her life and I have the money to be able to do it. Apparently, she is in need of some kind of hip replacement surgery now, and if she hadn't done all these stupid things I would have happily paid for it. I would have taken care of her if her boyfriend throws her in the street. If she wanted to go to University in America, I would have tried to help her, maybe have paid for it.

I thought she was a worthy enough friend and had already put her in my will so that she would have gotten everything I owned in Thailand, plus enough money to buy a guesthouse, or apartment business, or a huge mansion somewhere in Thailand. I never told her this. Can you imagine how stupid she would realize her greed is if she knew this??? And can you imagine how quickly I would have died if I had told her this??

I think people need to spread the news about this commission system, at least those who know about it. This should not be a secret that you have to stay here 5 years before you find out about it. It isn't of much value to the average tourist, but since there are many of us who come here and set up a lot of things, with retirement money that we cannot earn again, we really should not be wasting it. And if we want to "waste it" we could at least decide to spend this money on what we think is a worthy charity rather than enriching useless, fake people who don't care one hoot about us.

PLEASE, to posters who hate me for some reason, I am begging you not to leave messages insulting me. If you want to write that your experience in Thailand has been 100% perfect and nobody ever screwed you, and in fact that you screwed them, go ahead. Write your experience as I am writing mine. But I am not writing this to get people's opinions about what is wrong with me. This is not what the post is about.

Thank you for taking my sensitive "victim" feelings into consideration.

[Jet Gorgon]

Think you showed your wallet when you should have pretended to be poor, MTW. Hope you walked away, but always keep smiling when you see your "friend".

[madjbs]

You could have written a book or two by now you realize! Not sure if anyone would buy it though.

As for the commission stuff, I’m pretty sure it mentions it in lonely planet especially when it mentions Tuk Tuks. I have simply never heard of anything like your story before, its bordering on hard to believe to be honest. I’m surprised you allowed the Tuk Tuk driver to come in with you as well, I would have run for the hills. The problem is you have gone from one extreme to the other, when you arrived you obviously were very very nieve and didn’t do much research (you absolutely cannot deny this). This in itself is not to hard to believe as many people are like this when they arrive. However you were the unlucky one and got royally screwed over and over as you didn’t seem to learn from your mistakes or perhaps you trusted that person too much. Anyway you now are at the other extreme and think that most, nearly all Thai people are like this. I know you will argue this is true but if that’s what you want to see that is what you WILL see. It is however not true.

If you really want to enjoy living here you should get out and do whatever you enjoy. Try and meet some friends in a neutral place (sports centre, nature trail etc..) whatever you like doing. That way you can try to get to know some people who have the same interests as you which is always a good base to make friends on.

Realize there is more life ahead of you than behind you (Probably, I don’t know your age) learn from your mistakes and start afresh.

Edited June 7, 2007 by madjbs

[qwertz]

Madjibs, I think you're on the right note.

The problem in a place like Thailand is finding the right company.

You need qualified advice from real friends when you don't know your way around.

That's problem number two, real friends are thin on the ground anywhere you go.

And many people only learn this after being scammed.

After that, they find it very hard to make the distinction, hence the distrust that develops.

Neither Lonely Planet nor the other guide books prime you for this.

There's a whole heap of people on this board alone who have suffered these vaious scams in one form or another and IMO, their input, like yours is more helpful than any book because they've been there.

And books don't talk back.

Edited June 7, 2007 by qwertz

[MTW]

To the above poster, these things are true. And when you say you are surprised that "I allowed my tuk-tuk driver to come in with me" this isn't what happened. He stayed outside in the tuk-tuk for maybe 15 minutes or more, then suddenly came in and sat down at the table. I thought maybe it was because he wanted water. I even asked the managers of the dealership "why are you talking to him, he doens't have anything to do with my business here? As well, he is not translating for me because he doesn't speak English, and you do." They had the choice to tell me right then and there, that he was asking for money. But rather than do that, they told him he could get some money, and didn't tell me until later when I asked if my girlfriend had asked for money, that this driver had asked.

And even this information, I maybe only got because I was lucky. I am not sure. But the big manager of this dealership is a (supposedly) single guy, and asked me for a date several times. We ended up going out to lunch and I said I would think about a date, and that is when I asked him the questions about commissions.

I mean this jerk guy even told me I would get carpets for my car as part of the deal, and then gave me carpets for some truck model that didn't even match the colors of my car. Should I have expected this based on the other cars I have bought in my life??? If they say they are giving you the carpets, it has always been for the car, model and color you are buying. How could I predict this would happen? He seemed angry when I got angry and didn't want the carpets and threw them out of my car. Now, if I buy a car here again, I know to ask, will the carpets you are giving me match my model and color??? No, I don't want grey stripped carpets in my biege leather interior and who would??? Maybe Thai people don't care and that was what he was used to.

And I will agrue with you that I didn't do much research. I am addicted to research, do it about everything to a much larger extent that most people and I learned a lot of things about Thailand, mostly that help to confuse the situation. I have said this before, but most or all Thai books say that the richer person should pay, say that the older person should pay, so everytime you could say I fit at least one of these categories. The books say Thai people will invite their friends to come to dinner, even if you didn't invite them. Even when my friends invited others, it wasn't really obvious to me at first. We would be somewhere, and others would come up and say hello, end up sitting at the table (not at my invitation) and then drinking and ordering, and then get a phone call or go to the bathroom and never come back.

I didn't know this was standard procedure. I felt embarrassed to ask them for money and if they have a jerk friend who skipped out on the bill, I don't mind paying, but I do mind when this is a set up, when I asked to go to a different place and they say they don't know where it is, when they call their friends and tell them to come eat and drink and then go away before the bill comes, etc.

All I can say, is that I think many farang men are onto this stuff, because you hang out together and talk about it. We farang women, don't often get the pleasure of your company or your wisdom. And even the farangs I met here at first, were mostly part of the leeches that my Thai friends were involved with, and after now several years here, have never one time given me a warning.

I don't think terrible things about all Thai people. But we don't have many threads about what good things Thai people have done for you, and don't need to warn people of these things.

[Jet Gorgon]

MTW, I agree with you, but I get tired reading your looooong posts. Can you shorten the War and Peace novels, please?

[torito]

And I will agrue with you that I didn't do much research. I am addicted to research, do it about everything to a much larger extent that most people and I learned a lot of things about Thailand,

qwertz, this was one of my early points..no matter how academically prepared we can be, we are always susceptible to scam.....

I remember the story of the great rhino...a rhino who was born in captivity. He was taken care very well, well fed, healthy and had and anormous strength and power....one day its keepers took him to the wild with the believe that given his power he would not be in danger...the first night the hyenas ate him...they were not scared by his size and strength and sensed his weakness...

Scams perceive human vulnerability, this is their specialty.

[qwertz]

And he was doomed anyway because puny little humans would have hunted him down for the horns they prized above all else.