Bangkok on high alert for violence

[quiksilva]

The news on channel 5 says: Democrat party not guilty of breaching the Election Act as the Act is considered void after the coup. So how, then, can anybody (incl. TRT) guilty of anything?? The old constitution is also void. So of which laws are we talking then? Anybody can explain?

The best explanation I have read is the one from the Nation's Editor.

the verdict is based on the interim charter and organic laws on the MPs, senators elections and political parties. The essence of the 1997 charter is still enshrined in the organic laws. So, the ruling is based on both charters, though one has been abolished, and the organic laws.

[A_Traveller]

The Tribunal has dissolved the small parties accused of being hired by Thai Rak Thai.

Earlier, the Tribunal ruled that the post-coup announcement on party dissolution can have retroactive effects. This is very important because it means that if the Thai Rak Thai is found guilty, all 118 party executive members including those who resigned from the party earlier like Somkid Jatusripitak and Somsak Thepsuthin will be banned from politics for five years.

From The Nation{Blog}

Edited May 30, 2007 by A_Traveller

[hammered]

Looks like the Democrats are largely of the hook.

The hiring of the smaller parties was their biggest worry!

Legally they had anything to worry about as the evidence against them was so weak. Their worry was always politics. The evidence against TRT was always much stronger. It will be interesting to see how that goes. It may be telling that Suthep the main Dem potential fall guy was in court. Will Thammarak the main figure in the TRT allegations be sitting there. He was last heard fo froma safe house.

It is good to see the court judging the issues on legal points and not bending to political issues.

It is also good to see that the all issues are being presented transparently, hence the length.

The way the tribunal are handling themselves today and the way they are making and explaining their verdicts is very very impressive.

Now if they can handle the TRT verdict with a degree of impartiality that would be truly impressive.

So far everything has been done by the law and evidence. If the same is done with the TRT it could either way. The evidence and charges are stronger, but is it enough for guilty verdicts on some of the charges?

[quiksilva]

More from that blog

Earlier, the Tribunal ruled that the post-coup announcement on party dissolution can have retroactive effects. This is very important because it means that if the Thai Rak Thai is found guilty, all 118 party executive members including those who resigned from the party earlier like Somkid Jatusripitak and Somsak Thepsuthin will be banned from politics for five years.

[rychrde]

The news on channel 5 says: Democrat party not guilty of breaching the Election Act as the Act is considered void after the coup. So how, then, can anybody (incl. TRT) be guilty of anything?? The old constitution is also void. So of which laws are we talking then? Anybody can explain?

my feelings exactly! Looks like they've found a loophole large enough to drive an elephant through. Everyone saves face.

[A_Traveller]

More from that blog

Earlier, the Tribunal ruled that the post-coup announcement on party dissolution can have retroactive effects. This is very important because it means that if the Thai Rak Thai is found guilty, all 118 party executive members including those who resigned from the party earlier like Somkid Jatusripitak and Somsak Thepsuthin will be banned from politics for five years.

quicksilva are you stalking me

Regards

[A_Traveller]

The Constitutional Tribunal rules on Wednesday that Democrat Party is not guilty of violating the election laws, so it is not subject to party dissolution.(Details of six allegations inside)

The Tribunal delivered the sentence after reading the verdict since 2pm.

Senior Democrat party members who sit in the court room seemed to be relieved after the Tribunal read the final verdict.

The nine-member Constitution Tribunal addressed six questions in reaching its decision on the electoral fraud involving the Democrat and Progressive Democratic parties.

The first question - Did the Democrat Party make campaign speeches to frame Thai Rak Thai Party and its leader Thaksin Shinawatra?

Verdict : Acquittal.

The second question - Did the Democrat Party lead three electoral candidates from Progressive Democratic Party to frame the Thai Rak Thai Party for bankrolling them?

Verdict : Acquittal.

The third question - Did the Democrat Party arrange for the leader of the Better Life Party to frame the Thai Rak Thai Party for bankrolling the small party?

Verdict : Acquittal.

The fourth question - Did the Democrat Party try to prevent candidates from small parties from entering the race?

Verdict : Acquittal.

The fifth question - Did the Progressive Democratic Party falsify its membership records to enable its candidates to run in the three Trang constituencies?

Verdict : Guilty

The sixth question - Did the Democrat and Progressive Democratic parties commit wrongdoing that constitutes a cause for disbanding?

Verdict : Acquittal for Democrat/Disbanding Progressive Democratic parties and revoking voting rights of all party executives including those who resigned their position.

Summary from The Nation

[A_Traveller]

Thai Rak Thai Party

5:20 pm : After listening to a verdict on the Democrat Party case for almost three hours, key TRT members and their supporters are reportedly getting bored with the long session. Thus, some canvassers step on the stage to start attacking the junta while praising former premier Thaksin Shinawatra for his great service for the nation.

From The Nation Judgement Day Page

[sriracha john]

"showtopic number" changed for this thread?

from email notification :

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...view=getnewpost

= Board message (does not exist)

thread topic number used to be 122885, now it's 1231288

My apologies for that... mea culpa.

A thread merge went wrong.

mai pen rai.... just had never encountered that before....

Jai Dee.... at the forefront of the cutting edge on the Internet

[quiksilva]

More from that blog

Earlier, the Tribunal ruled that the post-coup announcement on party dissolution can have retroactive effects. This is very important because it means that if the Thai Rak Thai is found guilty, all 118 party executive members including those who resigned from the party earlier like Somkid Jatusripitak and Somsak Thepsuthin will be banned from politics for five years.

quicksilva are you stalking me

Regards

sorry about I'll leave you to it, I have to run anyway.

Looks to me as though the TRT are in for a hard time of it tonight.

[larvidchr]

Looks like the Democrats are largely of the hook.

The hiring of the smaller parties was their biggest worry!

Legally they had anything to worry about as the evidence against them was so weak. Their worry was always politics. The evidence against TRT was always much stronger. It will be interesting to see how that goes. It may be telling that Suthep the main Dem potential fall guy was in court. Will Thammarak the main figure in the TRT allegations be sitting there. He was last heard fo froma safe house.

It is good to see the court judging the issues on legal points and not bending to political issues.

It is also good to see that the all issues are being presented transparently, hence the length.

The way the tribunal are handling themselves today and the way they are making and explaining their verdicts is very very impressive.

Now if they can handle the TRT verdict with a degree of impartiality that would be truly impressive.

So far everything has been done by the law and evidence. If the same is done with the TRT it could either way. The evidence and charges are stronger, but is it enough for guilty verdicts on some of the charges?

This is a court operating under a millitary dictatorship, normally most of you gentlemen scorn at the police and their investigations and Thai court decisions, now it is all of a sudden all honky dory, please, you can not belive anything at face value, would you belive any decision from a Hugo Chavez, Fidel Castro court or any other dictatorship court, I dare say no you would not.

I think some prudence is in order here.

Kind regards

[hammered]

The news on channel 5 says: Democrat party not guilty of breaching the Election Act as the Act is considered void after the coup. So how, then, can anybody (incl. TRT) be guilty of anything?? The old constitution is also void. So of which laws are we talking then? Anybody can explain?

my feelings exactly! Looks like they've found a loophole large enough to drive an elephant through. Everyone saves face.

The election act was void because it was not mentioned in laws ammended under revolutionary decrees after the the coup. Other laws and constitutional elements were so they remain law. The criminal law is also still in place as is the civil law. Not much change really.

[Kan Win]

Democrat escapes party dissolution

The Constitutional Tribunal rules on Wednesday that Democrat Party is not guilty of violating the election laws, so it is not subject to party dissolution.(Details of six allegations inside)

The Tribunal delivered the sentence after reading the verdict since 2pm.

Senior Democrat party members who sit in the court room seemed to be relieved after the Tribunal read the final verdict.

The nine-member Constitution Tribunal addressed six questions in reaching its decision on the electoral fraud involving the Democrat and Progressive Democratic parties.

The first question - Did the Democrat Party make campaign speeches to frame Thai Rak Thai Party and its leader Thaksin Shinawatra?

Verdict : Acquittal.

The second question - Did the Democrat Party lead three electoral candidates from Progressive Democratic Party to frame the Thai Rak Thai Party for bankrolling them?

Verdict : Acquittal.

The third question - Did the Democrat Party arrange for the leader of the Better Life Party to frame the Thai Rak Thai Party for bankrolling the small party?

Verdict : Acquittal.

The fourth question - Did the Democrat Party try to prevent candidates from small parties from entering the race?

Verdict : Acquittal.

The fifth question - Did the Progressive Democratic Party falsify its membership records to enable its candidates to run in the three Trang constituencies?

Verdict : Guilty

The sixth question - Did the Democrat and Progressive Democratic parties commit wrongdoing that constitutes a cause for disbanding?

Verdict : Acquittal for Democrat/Disbanding Progressive Democratic parties and revoking voting rights of all party executives including those who resigned their position.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2007/05/30...es_30035592.php

[rychrde]

The news on channel 5 says: Democrat party not guilty of breaching the Election Act as the Act is considered void after the coup. So how, then, can anybody (incl. TRT) be guilty of anything?? The old constitution is also void. So of which laws are we talking then? Anybody can explain?

my feelings exactly! Looks like they've found a loophole large enough to drive an elephant through. Everyone saves face.

The election act was void because it was not mentioned in laws ammended under revolutionary decrees after the the coup. Other laws and constitutional elements were so they remain law. The criminal law is also still in place as is the civil law. Not much change really.

ok, now makes more sense!

thanks

[Tony Clifton]

Seems that people at the TRT headquarters had no interest in listening, as usual, to the court' s decision as they spend almost the entire time barking into a microphone.

[ozzydom]

The news on channel 5 says: Democrat party not guilty of breaching the Election Act as the Act is considered void after the coup. So how, then, can anybody (incl. TRT) be guilty of anything?? The old constitution is also void. So of which laws are we talking then? Anybody can explain?

According to the ABC news they judges said that the charges should have been laid under the interum constitution announced by the junta when they staged the coup.

[hammered]

Looks like the Democrats are largely of the hook.

The hiring of the smaller parties was their biggest worry!

Legally they had anything to worry about as the evidence against them was so weak. Their worry was always politics. The evidence against TRT was always much stronger. It will be interesting to see how that goes. It may be telling that Suthep the main Dem potential fall guy was in court. Will Thammarak the main figure in the TRT allegations be sitting there. He was last heard fo froma safe house.

It is good to see the court judging the issues on legal points and not bending to political issues.

It is also good to see that the all issues are being presented transparently, hence the length.

The way the tribunal are handling themselves today and the way they are making and explaining their verdicts is very very impressive.

Now if they can handle the TRT verdict with a degree of impartiality that would be truly impressive.

So far everything has been done by the law and evidence. If the same is done with the TRT it could either way. The evidence and charges are stronger, but is it enough for guilty verdicts on some of the charges?

This is a court operating under a millitary dictatorship, normally most of you gentlemen scorn at the police and their investigations and Thai court decisions, now it is all of a sudden all honky dory, please, you can not belive anything at face value, would you belive any decision from a Hugo Chavez, Fidel Castro court or any other dictatorship court, I dare say no you would not.

I think some prudence is in order here.

Kind regards

To be honest I worry more about some US supreme court decisions than anything in todays court! A court under a junta can do a good job at times just as courts in democracies can do bad.

[Aussietraveller]

Now they have stopped.

Are they finished for the day, or just having some Som Tam?

[terryp]

This is turning into a fiasco, they should both (parties) be disciplined and banned… another load of bollacks…some things never change especially Thai politics….

I bet this time next year all the Thai’s will be complaining again that some TRT hybrid is stealing all the Thai money and crippling the economy????

WAKE UP...you are nothing better than the worst in Asia

[A_Traveller]

Starting again..

I think... sorry I'm not sure what's live and what's recorded right now. Far as I know they will continue today.

Just to confirm they've started the opening statements on the TRT case.

Regards

/edit confirm//

Edited May 30, 2007 by A_Traveller

[womble]

Are any of the main accussed TRT in the courtroom?

Can't see Thamarrak.

Who's there?

Just the new leader of TRT and some others who I don't recognise.

[hammered]

Are any of the main accussed TRT in the courtroom?

Can't see Thamarrak.

Who's there?

Just the new leader of TRT and some others who I don't recognise.

Thammarak will be having a drink. Its 6 o'clock. Hopefully he wont be in the state he was on coup night.

[blaze]

Looks like the Democrats are largely of the hook.

The hiring of the smaller parties was their biggest worry!

Legally they had anything to worry about as the evidence against them was so weak. Their worry was always politics. The evidence against TRT was always much stronger. It will be interesting to see how that goes. It may be telling that Suthep the main Dem potential fall guy was in court. Will Thammarak the main figure in the TRT allegations be sitting there. He was last heard fo froma safe house.

It is good to see the court judging the issues on legal points and not bending to political issues.

It is also good to see that the all issues are being presented transparently, hence the length.

The way the tribunal are handling themselves today and the way they are making and explaining their verdicts is very very impressive.

Now if they can handle the TRT verdict with a degree of impartiality that would be truly impressive.

So far everything has been done by the law and evidence. If the same is done with the TRT it could either way. The evidence and charges are stronger, but is it enough for guilty verdicts on some of the charges?

This is a court operating under a millitary dictatorship, normally most of you gentlemen scorn at the police and their investigations and Thai court decisions, now it is all of a sudden all honky dory, please, you can not belive anything at face value, would you belive any decision from a Hugo Chavez, Fidel Castro court or any other dictatorship court, I dare say no you would not.

I think some prudence is in order here.

Kind regards

A court under a junta can do a good job at times just as courts in democracies can do bad.

And not just courts- but also those responsible for designing social, economic and foreign policy... but...

The coup was engineered to remove Thaksin and the TRT from the political landscape- not the Democrats. This court was hand picked by the people who made the coup. For that reason, the decisions it renders will always be regarded with suspicion. Particularly if those decsions conform to what can be expected from a court established by a dictatorship.

Justice must not only be done- it must be seen to be done. And perception- will haunt these decisions for a long time. They may be the right decsions- but they've been achieved in the wrong context.

[A_Traveller]

The coup was engineered to remove Thaksin and the TRT from the political landscape- not the Democrats. This court was hand picked by the people who made the coup. For that reason, the decisions it renders will always be regarded with suspicion. Particularly if those decsions conform to what can be expected from a court established by a dictatorship.

Justice must not only be done- it must be seen to be done. And perception- will haunt these decisions for a long time. They may be the right decsions- but they've been achieved in the wrong context.

Which is why the reading into the public record is so important. Ultimately the case will be reviewed, as was Thaksin's concealment action, which led to many questioning the verdict. In other words the viability of the judgement itself will be subject to a through review. Whatever the position that can only be for the good.

Regards

[blaze]

The coup was engineered to remove Thaksin and the TRT from the political landscape- not the Democrats. This court was hand picked by the people who made the coup. For that reason, the decisions it renders will always be regarded with suspicion. Particularly if those decsions conform to what can be expected from a court established by a dictatorship.

Justice must not only be done- it must be seen to be done. And perception- will haunt these decisions for a long time. They may be the right decsions- but they've been achieved in the wrong context.

Which is why the reading into the public record is so important. Ultimately the case will be reviewed, as was Thaksin's concealment action, which led to many questioning the verdict. In other words the viability of the judgement itself will be subject to a through review. Whatever the position that can only be for the good.

Regards

True enough. And until the review- by a body perceived to be impartial- occurs, the verdicts won't mean a lot.

[larvidchr]

[quote hammerd

The way the tribunal are handling themselves today and the way they are making and explaining their verdicts is very very impressive.

To be honest I worry more about some US supreme court decisions than anything in todays court! A court under a junta can do a good job at times just as courts in democracies can do bad.

I agree the jugdes suits looked nice. and the setup made it look just like a real court.

And I can understand you dont like decisions in a democratic court you dont agree with,

but decicions in a farce like setup, by jugdes with a knife to their throat, under a millitary dictatorship is ok if they go your way.

I will maintain my wiew, that allready flawed Thai courts havent suddenly become heavens of truth, after they have come under the control of the millitary coup makers

Remember this is Thailand, and the responsebility for internal security have just been handed over to a 71 year old notorius massmurdere who claims he has 700.000 informers, there is a lot at stake for anybody stepping across the line

Kind regards

[Tony Clifton]

It's fun to watch them squirm.

[TBWG]

It's fun to watch them squirm.

Hi

Summary to date by BBC world news...............

Key Thai party cleared of fraud

Democrat leader Abhisit Vejjejiva

The Democrat Party was Thai Rak Thai's main rival

Thailand's Constitutional Court has acquitted the Democrat Party of all charges of violating the country's election laws.

If the party had been found guilty, it could have been disbanded and its leaders banned from politics.

The judges now have to consider similar charges against the Democrats' main rival, the Thai Rak Thai Party, and its former leader Thaksin Shinawatra.

Police are on standby in Bangkok amid fears of violence at the verdicts.

The country's interim Prime Minister Surayud Chulanont, who was installed after Mr Thaksin was ousted in a coup last September, said he would issue an emergency decree if necessary to quell any unrest.

Damaged democracy

The Constitutional Court ruled that the Democrat Party neither slandered Mr Thaksin nor urged voters to cast a "no" vote in last year's controversial election campaign, which was subsequently annulled over allegations of electoral fraud.

The judges also found the Democrats not guilty of bribing a smaller party to influence the results of the poll.

Ex PM Thaksin Shinawatra (archive image)

Mr Thaksin's Thai Rak Thai party could be disbanded

"There are no legal grounds to disband" the Democratic Party, one judge concluded.

But a series of charges threatening the dissolution of Thai Rak Thai remain to be decided, and a verdict is expected later on Wednesday.

The now exiled Mr Thaksin - Thai Rak Thai's founder and former leader - together with other prominent politicians, could be barred from office for five years if the judges find them guilty of fraud.

Whatever the court's final verdict, it is unlikely to clear the air in what is already a damaged democracy, the BBC's Asia correspondent Andrew Harding says.

There are fears that a ruling against Thai Rak Thai might prompt street demonstrations, and a former Thai Rak Thai deputy has already threatened to mobilise thousands of protesters if the court rules against it.

But if Thai Rak Thai is not disbanded, analysts fear that the justification for the military coup which ousted the party and its leader would be undermined.

Mr Thaksin and Thai Rak Thai remain hugely popular, particularly in rural areas of Thailand, and the credibility of the interim government installed by the military coup leaders is increasingly on the line.

TBWG:wai:

[gust]

Belated thanks to quiksilva and hammered for the good answer.

I had to read the newspapers everyday for more than a year (and still often didn't understand what the point was...), but now I can't be bothered anymore...

[jdinasia]

larvidchr ... you are kinda funny!

I'll look in again in an hour or three ... not up to trying to understand the proceedings for the next section!