The Constitutional Tribunal Disbands Thai Rak Thai - Election cheating

[rychrde]

The party has committed wrongdoings that have negative impacts on democracy system of the country.

Oh the irony.

Yeah, I also liked the line where they said "the Thai Rak Thai did not have enough political ideology to remain as a political party

Nice eh! To say that of the biggest political party in the country that for the first time won successive elections AND the first to gain an actual majority.

Very strong legal foundation there, Somchai!

Except that quotation was referencing Thaksin's use of the party as an instrument to avoid scrutiny of his business transactions by calling the subsequently voided elections.

Context is critical here.

Regards

ah...Taxin should really have taken more lessons from Berlusconi.

[chanchao]

The governments of Thailand, Burma, Laos, Vietnam...now...same...same.

Now that might be true, but the current government is still on record as moving towards a new constitution and elections fairly soon. Will the new constitution be better than the old one they dissolved? I doubt it. Have they been an effective government? God, no. But they are indeed showing signs of keeping their core promise, going away someday.

You DO realize that this was a first step in ensuring polarization, leading to a no vote or boycott of the constitution referendum.. Then what.. another stalemate with the military in charge.

Abhisit is such a sucker... He's being played like the London Philharmonic and doesn't even know it. One day he may realize that HE played an essential part in bringing about a military governent by boycotting elections.

Ah what the heck, I'm going to bed, then tomorrow I'll go back to discussing Fortuner drivers. G'night.

[solent01]

You can argue the logic of the verdicts till the cows come home, but this is now the new reality from which Thailand needs to move forward. Those who think it is not even possible for anything good to come from this are too pessimistic.

My thoughts also......

[Totster]

I have had to remove some posts, please remember the following rule..

No disrespect of the King of Thailand or The Thai Royal Family! Discussion of topics concerning the King or other current or deceased members of the Thai Royal Family is forbidden

Totster

[solent01]

For all of the sins of Mr Thaksin and TRT, banning a large party is simply a bad precedent, and a step back from democracy.

Are you forgetting that Nong T paid for the party 100% - it was not a democratic entity, it was his personal playpen bought and paid for from the proceeds of a company founded and then expanded on the back of privileged decisions while he was in the Chaovalit cabinet.

The words Nationalist and Socialist were occurring far too often in the TRT circuit for any "western-friendly" government to allow TRT to continue. Comparisons to a certain other party with those qualities, that was also put down by military intervention (on a massive scale) were becoming too common place - domestically and internationally. It had to stop, for the good of the country.

There is an additional subtle message in this decision - the old system of patronage and favour is starting to be closed down, wealth will in future not be the criteria for political office. Corruption is accountable also comes through as a further message in the decision.

Gaz

Good post

Second it.

I was just about to say that it would be nice to hear from some of our Thai members, then noticed this.

[chanchao]

You are so pessimistic. What a nightmare must your life be.

I wish it was just my life. This is the country my daughter will grow up in. I wish I could be more optimistic. Normally I am. I can choose to be optimistic of course: there's always beer, there's always sun, there's always smiles, and chances are the economy will implode and exchange rates will be just lovely again.

[RagingBrit]

Whatever the rights and wrongs are politics wise, where is this all leading to?

In this case it doesn’t seem that if the Thai public turns a blind eye, the political problems will go away.

plus it’s destroying the infrastructure of the country.

If this political strive continues it will result in the eventual ruin of Thailand.

Let’s hope that these political problems get resolved quickly, otherwise it will lead to many serious consequences for the country, maybe even civil war.

Edited May 30, 2007 by Totster

[ThaiGoon]

For all of the sins of Mr Thaksin and TRT, banning a large party is simply a bad precedent, and a step back from democracy.

Are you forgetting that Nong T paid for the party 100% - it was not a democratic entity, it was his personal playpen bought and paid for from the proceeds of a company founded and then expanded on the back of privileged decisions while he was in the Chaovalit cabinet.

The words Nationalist and Socialist were occurring far too often in the TRT circuit for any "western-friendly" government to allow TRT to continue. Comparisons to a certain other party with those qualities, that was also put down by military intervention (on a massive scale) were becoming too common place - domestically and internationally. It had to stop, for the good of the country.

There is an additional subtle message in this decision - the old system of patronage and favour is starting to be closed down, wealth will in future not be the criteria for political office. Corruption is accountable also comes through as a further message in the decision.

Gaz

Good post

Second it.

I was just about to say that it would be nice to hear from some of our Thai members, then noticed this.

These are the verdicts that I really was hoping for. I now hope the TRT members will keep their promises of respecting the court (the country and the king as well.) Now, it's time to move on (and forward.)

[gust]

For all of the sins of Mr Thaksin and TRT, banning a large party is simply a bad precedent, and a step back from democracy.

Are you forgetting that Nong T paid for the party 100% - it was not a democratic entity, it was his personal playpen bought and paid for from the proceeds of a company founded and then expanded on the back of privileged decisions while he was in the Chaovalit cabinet.

The words Nationalist and Socialist were occurring far too often in the TRT circuit for any "western-friendly" government to allow TRT to continue. Comparisons to a certain other party with those qualities, that was also put down by military intervention (on a massive scale) were becoming too common place - domestically and internationally. It had to stop, for the good of the country.

There is an additional subtle message in this decision - the old system of patronage and favour is starting to be closed down, wealth will in future not be the criteria for political office. Corruption is accountable also comes through as a further message in the decision.

Gaz

Good post

Second it.

I was just about to say that it would be nice to hear from some of our Thai members, then noticed this.

Maybe it's a bit late, but I really can't see where you got the hint that "the old system of patronage and favour is starting to be closed down".

[chanchao]

Let’s hope that these political problems get resolved quickly, otherwise it will lead to many serious consequences for the country, maybe even civil war.

I don't think it'll be that bad; look at history and that basically doesn't happen. What DOES happen you can read in any recent history of Thailand, but I can't see civil war, for that to happen you need more than just poltical division, you also need strong ethnic or religious division, and there's none of that. (Well, people would point at the deep South but that's a very localized issue, and there's massive support throughout the country for coming down on those seperatists like a ton of bricks.)

[ColPyat]

A very stupid decision.

There are many very pissed off people now in Thailand. If they would not have dissolved TRT there would have anyhow been almost no chance that the rump left would have won elections, after some of the most influential members have parted already.

Stay away from Royal Plaza tomorrow afternoon and evening. People will demonstrate, and they are very angry.

[jdinasia]

A very stupid decision.

There are many very pissed off people now in Thailand. If they would not have dissolved TRT there would have anyhow been almost no chance that the rump left would have won elections, after some of the most influential members have parted already.

Stay away from Royal Plaza tomorrow afternoon and evening. People will demonstrate, and they are very angry.

an honest and straight forward decision ... Thankfully!

[solent01]

Latest update from The Nation Blog.

"Would there be violence? I have discussed this with many people. Our preliminary analysis is "What will TRT gain from violence?" Clashes with troops and another coup, maybe? What would another coup serve TRT then?

This is not to mention the fact that all political upheavals in Thailand were "Bangkok-based". Not just that they happened in the capital, but they also involved largely non-grassroot protesters. This is not playing down the power of the rural people, but their priorities are clear _ the mouths they have to feed come first.

The other factor has to do with the fact that the previous upheavals ended with royal intervention. In 1974 HM the King told the Thanom regime to leave the country. In 1992, he reprimanded Gen Suchinda Kraprayoon and Chamlong Srimuang before TV audience and hours later Suchinda quit as prime minister.

How would His Majesty react to a TRT uprising and possible violence stemming from it? I guess TRT leaders have to ponder this question seriously.

Is TRT capable of instigating an uprising? Yes. Will they do it? This remains a big question mark."

[chuchok]

A very stupid decision.

There are many very pissed off people now in Thailand. If they would not have dissolved TRT there would have anyhow been almost no chance that the rump left would have won elections, after some of the most influential members have parted already.

Stay away from Royal Plaza tomorrow afternoon and evening. People will demonstrate, and they are very angry.

Very stupid indeed,but what have we come to expect?These guys are either corrupt more than the last govenment...or just plain thick!!!

[jdinasia]

For all of the sins of Mr Thaksin and TRT, banning a large party is simply a bad precedent, and a step back from democracy.

Are you forgetting that Nong T paid for the party 100% - it was not a democratic entity, it was his personal playpen bought and paid for from the proceeds of a company founded and then expanded on the back of privileged decisions while he was in the Chaovalit cabinet.

The words Nationalist and Socialist were occurring far too often in the TRT circuit for any "western-friendly" government to allow TRT to continue. Comparisons to a certain other party with those qualities, that was also put down by military intervention (on a massive scale) were becoming too common place - domestically and internationally. It had to stop, for the good of the country.

There is an additional subtle message in this decision - the old system of patronage and favour is starting to be closed down, wealth will in future not be the criteria for political office. Corruption is accountable also comes through as a further message in the decision.

Gaz

Good post

Second it.

I was just about to say that it would be nice to hear from some of our Thai members, then noticed this.

These are the verdicts that I really was hoping for. I now hope the TRT members will keep their promises of respecting the court (the country and the king as well.) Now, it's time to move on (and forward.)

I don't always agree with you TG ... but I do this time!

[rychrde]

link to reuters

http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/i...30?pageNumber=1

and BBC

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/6704083.stm

"Thai Rak Thai officials have promised to respect the verdict, and those who can will no doubt try to form a new party to compete in elections, our correspondent says."

Edited May 30, 2007 by rychrde

[chuchok]

I don't always agree with you TG ... but I do this time!

.more than half of the country voted democratically for TRT, yet most of the farang here hate them, and don't want them in power.Amazing really.No bias here at all....go the junta!!!

[ColPyat]

an honest and straight forward decision ... Thankfully!

Honest, straightforward, what do i know? I didn't understand the ten hour legal blathering, and so did not 90% of the Thai population either. It was a language used way over the head of the majority of the population.

What about the so called aim of healing the "divisions" in Thai society? Todays decision made those even worse.

[TAWP]

A non-democratic party gets dissolved and some posters here complains. Go figure...

[ThaiGoon]

I don't always agree with you TG ... but I do this time!

.more than half of the country voted democratically for TRT, yet most of the farang here hate them, and don't want them in power.Amazing really.No bias here at all....go the junta!!!

In the US, more than half of the country (or people who voted) voted for Bush in 2004 as well I think. And look at how popular he is at the moment.

[egeefay]

The governments of Thailand, Burma, Laos, Vietnam...now...same...same.

Now that might be true, but the current government is still on record as moving towards a new constitution and elections fairly soon. ... they are indeed showing signs of keeping their core promise, going away someday.

Yes, that's right. They are going to have free elections at the end of the year.

In preparation they are banning any political opposition parties and politicians that stand a good chance of winning.

That way they are guaranteed to have a slate of candidates that they approve of.

Thailand has never understood the concept of "Democracy" or "free and fair elections"

Edited May 30, 2007 by egeefay

[chanchao]

Latest update from The Nation Blog.

"Would there be violence? I have discussed this with many people. Our preliminary analysis is "What will TRT gain from violence?" Clashes with troops and another coup, maybe? What would another coup serve TRT then?

This is not to mention the fact that all political upheavals in Thailand were "Bangkok-based". Not just that they happened in the capital, but they also involved largely non-grassroot protesters. This is not playing down the power of the rural people, but their priorities are clear _ the mouths they have to feed come first.

The other factor has to do with the fact that the previous upheavals ended with royal intervention. In 1974 HM the King told the Thanom regime to leave the country. In 1992, he reprimanded Gen Suchinda Kraprayoon and Chamlong Srimuang before TV audience and hours later Suchinda quit as prime minister.

How would His Majesty react to a TRT uprising and possible violence stemming from it? I guess TRT leaders have to ponder this question seriously.

Is TRT capable of instigating an uprising? Yes. Will they do it? This remains a big question mark."

Thanks for posting that, it is indeed very insightful. Indeed TRT has nothing to gain from any uprising now. Something like this was always in the cards, I mean they got ousted in a coup.. then you expect to get hit.. Just like at the barber, when being shaven it's best to sit still. And any uprising would indeed depend on wide support from middle class Bangkok people, who are not exactly their target demographic in recent years.

The one thing the article doesn't outline though is that there's really two groups.. There's the TRT big-wig mafia-like power brokers and it's almost a good thing that they've been banned from politics, but then there's also the actual genuine Northern and North Eastern electorate, some of whom by now must realize that in a true democratic model, they command the most votes. So where Thaksin started with programs of economic development, support and healthcare plans for the region, they must now realize that these things are attainable when they organize themselves properly, if not under Thaksin / TRT then under any other unifying umbrella. Bangkok middle classes including those writing/reading The Nation better beware when that happens.

If I was in TRT but outside of those 100-something group that was banned then I'd try to get something off the ground along those lines, never mind the old TRT or Thaksin.

[jdinasia]

an honest and straight forward decision ... Thankfully!

Honest, straightforward, what do i know? I didn't understand the ten hour legal blathering, and so did not 90% of the Thai population either. It was a language used way over the head of the majority of the population.

What about the so called aim of healing the "divisions" in Thai society? Todays decision made those even worse.

No today's decision gave an honest and rather transparent reasoning behind EVERY decsion .... will everyone understand? well in some smaller places that don't get papers and don't get radio or TV ... and ONLY rely on the local kanman to tell them what is right ... no in those places people will not understand

[chanchao]

A non-democratic party gets dissolved and some posters here complains. Go figure...

Yes, please do, go figure. Take a notebook, and a pencil, go tour the North and North East and go ask people and draw up some figures. No money, no vote buying, just ask if they woudl have liked to go vote TRT. If most people want to vote for something, can you then label that something un-democratic? (Well, I gues you can, presumably. )

Edited May 30, 2007 by chanchao

[solent01]

I don't always agree with you TG ... but I do this time!

.more than half of the country voted democratically for TRT, yet most of the farang here hate them, and don't want them in power.Amazing really.No bias here at all....go the junta!!!

And lets not forget all those villages that recieved 1 million baht from Toxics government, only to find out later that is was in fact given to them as a loan (with interest payable if I am not mistaken), a loan that they never asked for. Personally I call that buying votes, shame these voters didn't understand that before making the X mark. And lets not forget the support at TRT rallies in Bangkok, where most of the attendies were from the North East, how many Baht per head did that cost them.

[ThaiGoon]

No today's decision gave an honest and rather transparent reasoning behind EVERY decsion .... will everyone understand?

Exactly.

[ColPyat]

an honest and straight forward decision ... Thankfully!

Honest, straightforward, what do i know? I didn't understand the ten hour legal blathering, and so did not 90% of the Thai population either. It was a language used way over the head of the majority of the population.

What about the so called aim of healing the "divisions" in Thai society? Todays decision made those even worse.

No today's decision gave an honest and rather transparent reasoning behind EVERY decsion .... will everyone understand? well in some smaller places that don't get papers and don't get radio or TV ... and ONLY rely on the local kanman to tell them what is right ... no in those places people will not understand

The only problem here is that the language used was for most Thais not understandable, mostly a very complicated legal Thai, so detailed that most people just could not concentrate long enough to get the context.

Even several educated people i have asked about that had difficulties to follow, and lesser educated Thais understood nothing. After the first 20 minutes into the statement there were even cheers, as many listeners have misunderstood and thought that both parties were exonerated. The same happened at the end of the sentencing, when at first people cheered, because they thought that TRT was not dissolved.

[gust]

Honest, straightforward, what do i know? I didn't understand the ten hour legal blathering, and so did not 90% of the Thai population either. It was a language used way over the head of the majority of the population.

I don't think it was very legal; it rather seemed to be quite normal language they used. It was just dead-boring because they repeated everything a hundred times to give it more weight and make it last as long as possible.

[jdinasia]

Chanchao .... are you asleep? guess not ... TRT did NOT get ousted in a coup .... Thaksin did. There was not gov't per se' when the coup happened there was .... Thaksin Parlaiment had been dissolved and Dr/Mr/Pol Lt Col T could not get a new election legally

[ColPyat]

Honest, straightforward, what do i know? I didn't understand the ten hour legal blathering, and so did not 90% of the Thai population either. It was a language used way over the head of the majority of the population.

I don't think it was very legal; it rather seemed to be quite normal language they used. It was just dead-boring because they repeated everything a hundred times to give it more weight and make it last as long as possible.

Depended on the judge, some were more legal (where i understood nothing), and some were just so terribly long winded that i forgot the beginning of the sentence before it finished.