'good' English.

[Davidcharles]

In the 40/50s, if you wanted a job at the BBC as a performer, or if you were an Actor, you had to speak, what then was considered to be, 'Good English' as taught by Schools such as RADA. Today thankfully every kind of Regional accent is to be heard on Radio and TV in the UK. Although it goes a bit too far at times.....

However, the question is, should teachers with Regional English accents, or Scottish,Irish or Welsh accents be teaching in Thailand?

Incidentally, I overheard a heated discussion recently, in Bangkok, about this.

One Brit, who sounded as if he had come from Surrey, was adament that it was "Not on". And as for Americans, Ozzies etc, well he was dead against those

teaching Thais to speak like them......

I worked in one small School a few months ago with a smashing guy from Glasgow,

who had a very thick accent.......and to hear his students copying his way of speaking was......well, quite amusing to say the least.

Any opinions on this Guys?

[Snapshot]

The language training business in Thailand is hooked on the idea that only "native" English speakers can teach English ... it doesn't really matter if they can teach or not ... and mostly the subject of "local dialects" - as you mention - doesn't come up. As long as you are a "native speaker" you are fully qualified to teach ... it's your "birth-right" in Thailand

And for the past twenty years there has been a "fight" here whether Thai people should learn "British English" or "American English"

The fight and misunderstanding about the native English speaker issue will go on for the next twenty years too ...

[daveh]

At my school, the students don't have the same teacher for long enough (they change each term) to pick up his/her accent. We have teachers from all over. I met one guy from an African nation (can't recall which one right now) that was studying for his TEFL. Although, English is the official language of his country and his first language, his accent was barely understandable, and he could hardly understand the British or American accents either. I feel sorry for any students that have to learn spoken English from him.

[mbkudu]

There are preferences that Thai students make when selecting an English teacher. I have heard Thais say that they like the British accent because it sounds

proper and I've heard them say they like the American accent because it is mostly flat sounding and easier to understand. When I taught English in Thailand I mostly used American based books because I am American. As time went on I started using both American and British sytems with different students. It is a matter of adaptation. Many of my good friends in Thailand are British, Australian, and American. I don't really have the time to argue with any pompous ass about which

system or accent is better. They're all fine as long as the student is happy with the

teacher. Personality and knowledge are far more important to the student learning

English than accent or system.

Sean Connery is the best speaker of English if you ask me. James Bond #1!

Look at all the lasses he bedded up in the Bond flicks. Says something there, eh?

[Alphonsyus A Skrunge-Worzle]

"We have really everything in common with America nowadays except, of course, language." Oscar Wilde's "The Canterville Ghost" (1882)

The twain will never meet, nor will they fully understand each other. I'm a fan of good British English. Much closer to the origin and easier to root.

[maerim]

I met an English "teacher" on a plane once, he was from Glasgow he was jawing away to me for hours.

I am a U.K. national from London where English is spoken that everyone can understand as to the above gentleman I had no idea what he was saying but I tell you one thing, I would love to hear his students speak the " English " he taught.

[KevinN]

Sounds like maybe he taught my "cousin" to speak english,,she learned at a hotel where she worked that is either Brit run or owned,and all the farangs there are Brit,Her knowledge is OK and she can speak well and never has any touble talking to me,But I can understand her about as well as if she were speaking Thai, I have worked with or around a lot of brits that spoke the same way,I really didn't know what they were saying. But I also know that there are a great many area dialects in the USA that people from other areas have trouble understanding.

[DogNo1]

I think that the "CNN" test of intelligibility might apply here. As you probably know, CNN employs announcers and commentators with a variety of accents. They are apparently understood by most CNN viewers. Perhaps English teachers should aim at this standard of intelligibility.

[Stocky]

I think that the "CNN" test of intelligibility might apply here.  As you probably know, CNN employs announcers and commentators with a variety of accents.  They are apparently understood by most CNN viewers.  Perhaps English teachers should aim at this standard of intelligibility. 

Eye-rack and Shah-roan!

Stick with the BBC please!

[Davidcharles]

Heard an Indian Lady Teacher once, saying "Vot is diss?" as she held up a book.

The class answered enthusiastically, "Dat is a boook".

It's hard enough for Thais to learn to say their Ls and Rs correctly, without telling them to say V for W, and D for Th.......Sad really.

[Davidcharles]

I think that the "CNN" test of intelligibility might apply here. As you probably know, CNN employs announcers and commentators with a variety of accents. They are apparently understood by most CNN viewers. Perhaps English teachers should aim at this standard of intelligibility.

I have no wish to knock Americans. They have been very kind to me in the past.

BUT, CNN Newscasters are awful in my opinion.

Their rapid, nasel, harsh, New York voices grate on my nerves!

Sorry, BBC News readers are definitely the very best, when it comes to spoken English.

It used to be far too Posh, but now it's just right. Music to my ears.....

[medicinebox]

There are variations in everyones accent. When I'm with my friends I probably talk with a geordie accent. But when I was working with foreigners in the dive industry I had no problem speaking clearly with a "neutral" accent. Its just a matter of speaking clearly and slowly and thinking ahead on what you are saying.

The best English spoken in my opinion, is what you hear on the black and white movies of the 30's-50's. Very proper indeed I'm sure.

[Davidcharles]

Oh MB! How can you say that the "Awfully terrible Darling...." type of English spoken in those films was easy on the ear?

I see where you are coming from otherwise and approve absolutely.

Jolly good old chap......

Funny though. People from my neck of the woods, Surrey, think they don't have an accent!

[konangrit]

I don't see a problem with slight regional accents be they American, British or whatever. But English shouldn't be taught in a strong accent as it's hard enough for some English speakers to understand others with strong regional languages, let alone understand a foreigner speak English in a strong accent crossed with their own native accent.

[medicinebox]

I don't see a problem with slight regional accents be they American, British or whatever. But English shouldn't be taught in a strong accent as it's hard enough for some English speakers to understand others with strong regional languages, let alone understand a foreigner speak English in a strong accent crossed with their own native accent.

Well bully for you my old china. As David Charles who posted before, is a truly British name I think he has an absolute darling attitude.

I'd go so far to say I'm quite fond of him.

I don't mean to be "too very" about it, but I think its all splendid...

Lets listen up for the have nots, nghaa, nghaa, nghaa.

[RDN]

deleted

[Snark]

"We are bound to a language which makes up in obscurity what it lacks in style" -Ros. and Guil. are Dead-

Microsoft spell checker is now the predominant definitive authority of the English language. In turn it insists on putting and apostrophe in the word aint among other foibles.

Accents are irrelevant if words are enunciated with accuracy and reasonable clarity. This excludes roughly 2/3rds of the Brits, 3/4 of the Americans, and 9/10ths of the Aussies. (Nobody knows what dialect is spoken in the Northern Territory. It is subject to debate if it even is a language.).

[maerim]

In my opinion the "best" English is heard on radio 4 in the U.K. where what's known as recieved English is spoken, especially by news readers, clear and and perfect understandable English.

I must say it'e one of the things I miss here.

The BBC world service on the other hand is going downhill fast.

Most people listen to this service to improve their English skills and also recieve unbiased news and information.

Over the past few years in the name of political correctness they have been using native speakers from the country in question the West Indies Africa etc. etc.

I have the utmost difficulty understanding these people, now they might think they can speak English but I have a bit of bad news for them, they can't.

This policy may be all well and good for the feel good factor but it seems to me that it is deafeating the object of the world service in the first place.

[stroll]

Accents are irrelevant if words are enunciated with accuracy and reasonable clarity. This excludes roughly 2/3rds of the Brits, 3/4 of the Americans, and 9/10ths of the Aussies.

Right, I shouldn't be so shy about my English. By this definition most Germans, Swedes, Dutch, Philipinos and others will qualify as an English teacher, but most Brits won't.

Btw, where have you been hiding, Snark, De Danan and I were just talking about you in the Buddhist forum?

[Johpa]

Nobody knows what dialect is spoken in the Northern Territory. It is subject to debate if it even is a language.

A wise sage once noted that a language is simply a dialect with an army behind it.

[KevinN]

Heard an Indian Lady Teacher once, saying "Vot is diss?" as she held up a book.

The class answered enthusiastically, "Dat is a boook".

It's hard enough for Thais to learn to say their Ls and Rs correctly, without telling them to say V for W, and D for Th.......Sad really.

Exactly,,That is why my wife,who speaks like a Thai speaking English,has asked me to come to school and help teach the kids how English sounds when spoken by a native English speaker,she has always taught English as that was her major,she said she learned English from Indians, Thai's,or other foreigners and never from a native English speaker.

So I go to school 2 days a week and help.

[Davidcharles]

Well done Kev!

But quite frankly, the English here on British TV these days can be quite awful!

The presenter on a kids TV show this morning is a real Cockney (East Ender),

and his grammar is terrible.....my little nephew likes him a lot, and is starting to

copy him!

Look, there is nothing wrong with regional accents. They are great, if you live in the area. But when you move away, you could have problems if you want a good job.

And certainly, teaching foreigners to speak with anything other than 'Good BBC Newsreader English', is not ideal......

[Alphonsyus A Skrunge-Worzle]

Was worried the hunters had caught up with the Snark. Good to see the Poojum is back!

Hopefully I can read more sensible and thought provoking posts now.

[Ajarn]

Let's not forget that American and British versions of English are different in many basic ways...spelling/pronunciation/grammar rules...

In teaching English here for many years, I've found many of these differences to be confusing to students- and teachers. In my experience, very few newish English teachers are even aware of the differences, and some students have received lower marks on tests simply because the student used, for example, an American English usage of a preposition of place, rather than the preposition used in British usage which the teacher was familiar with...

Since language is a direct reflection of culture, I feel that British English is partly a class-based language, and this has made the language somewhat more inflexible and less 'modern' when compared to American English. In the last few years, the models for teaching in Thailand schools are based more and more on American English...except maybe in some British schools, especially the more elitist ones.

[ProThaiExpat]

People who are considered "welll spoken" can come from the U.K, the U.S., France or wherever. Accents can be charming and makes speech more interesting to listen to as long as the accent doesn't get in the way.

The danger with generalities is there are so many exceptions. One would like to agree with the many posts regarding the quality of the accents spoken on the BBC, and perhaps they are speaking of the BBC aired in England. They certainly can't be speaking about BBC World News seen on channel 54 on UBC in Thailand.

There is one female news reader, who was on assignment in Bagdad during the war there and shortly thereafter, who is now reading news in the evening and she is barely intelligable.

Perhaps because she is so unattractive, but my guess the accent is Scottish?

I change channels when she comes on because the hard clip to the accent is most annoying and could hardly be touted by any reasonable person to be a standard one would ascribe to.

Can anyone name that "mistake".

[joinme2leave]

used to have thai g/f.

got a minor dispute with her.

since her english was like non existent and my thai too little as well I disappeared from our room (sipping one or more beers in a bar close by) - left her alone - waiting for further reaction - and (somehow stupid) hoping that she would find her OWN words to explain....

Ha! What an illusion:

She called me on my mobile about after 1 hour: even though she denied it, it was obvious to HEAR that she'd been asking for 'advice' of whattodo or say to me as kind of excuse.

All (and I mean it: ALL) I understood out of those few sentences was ....PARDON....

WITHN this second I knew she' d been phoning to a female friend of hers who'd been together with a brit for loong, loong time.

So quite easy for me to analyse that she DID not at all think about what to tell me but instead ask for advice.

Thank Buddha, even though I am no native english speaking soon-to-be-expat I do very well know the "difference" between u.k.-PARDON and rest-of-the-world-SORRY .

[RDN]

In my experience, very few newish English teachers are even aware of the differences, and some students have received lower marks on tests simply because the student used, for example, an American English usage of a preposition of place, rather than the preposition used in British usage which the teacher was familiar with.

I hope you don't teach your pupils to use prepositions to end their sentences - like you just did.

[KevinN]

I was born in Oregon,so I have a western accent,Then during the years shortly after WW2 a lot of oakies and arkies moved to Oregon and got into the timber industry,so going to school and chumming around with them I also picked up a southwestern accent,,then worked a few crews in Alabama and the deep south,more accent,and working around the world on pipelines with a bunch of 798ers whose local address is Tulsa Oklahoma,I have an accent that people find it hard to believe I am from the high country of eastern Oregon.

But luckily I am only teaching conversational English and how to speak like a Yank instead of a pommie. pip pip old chap,and all that tommy rot,eh wot.

[RDN]

...They certainly can't be speaking about BBC World News seen on channel 54 on UBC in Thailand.

There is one female news reader, who was on assignment in Bagdad during the war there and shortly thereafter, who is now reading news in the evening and she is barely intelligable.

Perhaps because she is so unattractive, but my guess the accent is Scottish?

I change channels when she comes on because the hard clip to the accent is most annoying and could hardly be touted by any reasonable person to be a standard one would ascribe to.

Can anyone name that "mistake".

Thank you PTE and thank God it's not just me! That woman is called Lyse Doucet. I thought she was Irish, but you may be right - she may be a Scott. Either way, she is the most unintellible perveyor of spoken news on TV. Just why BBC World employs her, I do not know. I have actually emailed them and complained that I can understand only about 70% of the words she mangles, which means I spent a lot of mental effort replaying inside my head the last sentence she uttered in order to make sense of it. This means of course that I missed the next sentence. I no longer try to understand her and switch over to CNN where all of their speakers are more understandable than that woman.

I tried to explain to the BBC that the point of a news reader is to communicate information to the listener. If the person cannot speak clear English the she (or he) is not fit for the job. I pity any non-English person trying to understand this woman. If I could email her personally, I would. I would tell her that she is not another "Kate Adie" who was an exceptionally good war correspondent.

[KevinN]

I only watch women doing the news and never listen ,I think kate Curric is a fox and the broad you guys it rippin is just to BUTT ugly for me to watch.