Moderna CEO warns COVID-19 shots less effective against Omicron, spooks markets

[Jeffr2]

https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/hong-kong-expands-travel-curbs-omicron-fears-australia-reports-5-cases-2021-11-30/

 

"There is no world, I think, where (the effectiveness) is the same level . . . we had with Delta," Moderna CEO Bancel told the Financial Times in an interview.

 

"I think it's going to be a material drop. I just don't know how much because we need to wait for the data. But all the scientists I've talked to . . . are like 'this is not going to be good'," Bancel said. read more

[Jeffr2]

So much for that South African doctor.

[Stocky]

11 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

So much for that South African doctor.

To be fair the South African doctor has more hands on knowledge than Bancel who's just blathering in the absence of data.

[blackprince]

On the other hand, "anecdotal accounts suggest the variant may cause less severe illness".

 

Too early for alarm. Let's let the experts do their work before we jump to conclusions.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/30/despite-reports-of-milder-symptoms-omicron-should-not-be-understimated

Edited November 30, 2021 by blackprince

[Jeffr2]

15 minutes ago, Stocky said:

To be fair the South African doctor has more hands on knowledge than Bancel who's just blathering in the absence of data.

I'm guessing that you didn't read the article. Not to mention his scientists CREATED  one of the best vaccines. Not a SA doctor. LOL

[Someone Else]

22 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

So much for that South African doctor.

There is absolutely no new information offered in this article by the CEO who is obviously engaged in a promotional effort on a financial news channel (which is fine, it's his job to pump the company which is certainly a respected frontrunner).  All he's doing is reiterating the scientific consensus that this variant looks quite bad on paper, just as WHO has.

 

Nothing he says casts doubt on the SA MD who simply reported their real-world clinical experience with a small group of young patients infected with the new variant. Not sure why some are so quick to dismiss what this clinician reported, I have seen nothing to suggest compromised credibility.

 

To my knowledge there are scant data on clinical outcomes from this variant to date, which seems the real story.  It's early days and we just have to wait for more robust data.  

[Bkk Brian]

23 minutes ago, blackprince said:

On the other hand, "anecdotal accounts suggest the variant may cause less severe illness".

 

Too early for alarm. Let's let the experts do their work before we jump to conclusions.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/30/despite-reports-of-milder-symptoms-omicron-should-not-be-understimated

I agree, let the experts do their work, they are busy seeing as there's a 400% increase in hospitalizations over the month and the head of an ICU unit has said young people, in their 20s to just over their late 30s, are coming in with moderate to severe disease, some needing intensive care. Let alone the Dr Salim Abdool Karim said at an online health ministry press briefing. "I am expecting we will top over 10,000 cases by the end of the week per day (and) see pressure on hospitals within the next two, three weeks."

[Sheryl]

54 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

So much for that South African doctor.

I did not see anywhere that the "South African doctor" (presumably meaning the GP who first noticed it)  made any statements/conclusions about vaccine efficacy.

 

Everything I read simply reported her experience with her patient population and drew no conclusions from that to the population at large. And certainly did nto attempt to predict vaccine efficacy.

 

People have attempted to draw far reaching conclusion from her very circumscribed remarks that did not go beyond a qualitative description of  what she has seen among relatively young, healthy people in her practice.  Rather like taking a button and sewing a shirt onto it.

[ChrisKC]

6 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

I did not see anywhere that the "South African doctor" (presumably meaning the GP who first noticed it)  made any statements/conclusions about vaccine efficacy.

 

Everything I read simply reported her experience with her patient population and drew no conclusions from that to the population at large. And certainly did nto attempt to predict vaccine efficacy.

 

People have attempted to draw far reaching conclusion from her very circumscribed remarks that did not go beyond a qualitative description of  what she has seen among relatively young, healthy people in her practice.  Rather like taking a button and sewing a shirt onto it.

"Rather like taking a button and sewing a shirt onto it."

 

Nice one, Sheryl, not heard that one before!!

[Jeffr2]

5 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

I did not see anywhere that the "South African doctor" (presumably meaning the GP who first noticed it)  made any statements/conclusions about vaccine efficacy.

 

Everything I read simply reported her experience with her patient population and drew no conclusions from that to the population at large. And certainly did nto attempt to predict vaccine efficacy.

 

People have attempted to draw far reaching conclusion from her very circumscribed remarks that did not go beyond a qualitative description of  what she has seen among relatively young, healthy people in her practice.  Rather like taking a button and sewing a shirt onto it.

Agreed. As you say, many are trying to use her statements to downplay the potential severity of the new variant. Nobody knows right now.

 

But this statement from Moderna is concerning. Again. We just don't know.

[Jeffr2]

https://edition.cnn.com/world/live-news/covid-variant-omicron-11-29-21/h_3c75325339ee57f0edfea53e02f45fd2

 

Omicron is the dominant coronavirus strain in South Africa, less than two weeks after first detected

The Omicron variant is now the dominant coronavirus strain in South Africa, less than two weeks after it was first detected in the country.

By contrast, it took the Delta variant a few months to become the dominant strain in South Africa in early 2021.

[Bkk Brian]

Here is the Moderna Medical Director in a video interview with the BBC yesterday, he said "nine of the spike protein mutations are known to cause immune escape with the vaccines and another 11 are predicted to be. Bring those together you have a very concerning virus"

 

Starts at 19.05

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogKR_idRx-k

 

Edited November 30, 2021 by Bkk Brian

[Chris.B]

Why doesn't he (CEO) talk in plain English? ☹️ Seems like some sort of double-talk!

Edited November 30, 2021 by Chris.B

[Sheryl]

Just now, Chris.B said:

Why doesn't he (CEO) talk in plain English? ☹️ Seems like some sort of double-talk!

 

Or better yet, stay quiet until all information is in.

 

 

[tomazbodner]

 

https://www.timesofisrael.com/first-image-of-omicron-shows-many-more-mutations-than-delta/

[connda]

BOOSTERS!!!  We need BOOSTERS!

Moderna Stock climbs 100 points!!!

You fools.

[blackprince]

41 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

I agree, let the experts do their work, they are busy seeing as there's a 400% increase in hospitalizations over the month and the head of an ICU unit has said young people, in their 20s to just over their late 30s, are coming in with moderate to severe disease, some needing intensive care. Let alone the Dr Salim Abdool Karim said at an online health ministry press briefing. "I am expecting we will top over 10,000 cases by the end of the week per day (and) see pressure on hospitals within the next two, three weeks."

I agree there's a lot more to this story and a lot more to come too. That's why I suggest hanging on until we get more evidence from the experts.

But current expert opinion is that it's more contagious (this seems certain now), but less dangerous (but this is far from certain at the moment).

 

But the real back story in my opinion is much bigger:

 

(1) this mutant strain has developed because the west has failed to live up its promise to vaccinate the poorest countries in the world (mostly in Africa), despite knowing that mutant strains will develop more rapidly in unvaccinated populations.

 

(2) the EU in particular has been engaging in "neo-colonialism" by locating covid vaccine plants in Africa, but sending the African made vaccines to Europe.

 

(3) The refusal of the west to waive covid vaccine patents at least until we get this under control (apart from the excellent team at Oxford University who stipulated this as part of their contract with AZ).

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/16/gordon-brown-hits-out-at-eu-neocolonial-approach-to-covid-vaccine-supplies

 

[Chris.B]

5 minutes ago, blackprince said:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/16/gordon-brown-hits-out-at-eu-neocolonial-approach-to-covid-vaccine-supplies

 

Gordon Brown ! 55555 ????????

[Jeffr2]

5 minutes ago, blackprince said:

I agree there's a lot more to this story and a lot more to come too. That's why I suggest hanging on until we get more evidence from the experts.

But current expert opinion is that it's more contagious (this seems certain now), but less dangerous (but this is far from certain at the moment).

 

But the real back story in my opinion is much bigger:

 

(1) this mutant strain has developed because the west has failed to live up its promise to vaccinate the poorest countries in the world (mostly in Africa), despite knowing that mutant strains will develop more rapidly in unvaccinated populations.

 

(2) the EU in particular has been engaging in "neo-colonialism" by locating covid vaccine plants in Africa, but sending the African made vaccines to Europe.

 

(3) The refusal of the west to waive covid vaccine patents at least until we get this under control (apart from the excellent team at Oxford University who stipulated this as part of their contract with AZ).

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/16/gordon-brown-hits-out-at-eu-neocolonial-approach-to-covid-vaccine-supplies

 

The biggest problem in SA now is vaccine hesitancy due to misinformation. Not a lack of jabs.

[Chris.B]

26 minutes ago, gearbox said:

is that the muppets who paid for Moderna many months ago 

Who do you think paid for the Moderna?

 

It probably isn't the farangs as most got vaccinated free, courtesy of the British and American governments.

 

So who does that leave? Ohhh the Thais! Nice of you to insult millions of Thais who, not only are your hosts, but had no choice when all their government offered them was Sinovac.....

☹️☹️

 

Edited November 30, 2021 by Chris.B

[Pravda]

I am just wondering about something. Why is the world going crazy and banning flights from South Africa? They obviously did some serious work and testing to find this mutation. In all honesty the world should be punishing countries like Thailand who literally doesn't have a clue and doesn't even do a bare minimum of testing the population.

 

Edited November 30, 2021 by Pravda

[Pravda]

3 minutes ago, Chris.B said:

Who do you think paid for the Moderna?

 

It probably isn't the farangs as most got vaccinated free courtesy of the British and American governments.

 

So who does that leave? Ohhh the Thais! Nice of you to insult millions of Thais who, not only are your hosts, but had no choice when all their government offered them was Sinovac.....

☹️☹️

 

True. I did pay for moderna and I finally received it this Sunday. I was the only foreigner in the hospital getting the shot. All of them were Thai and they didn't look rich.

[blackprince]

20 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

The biggest problem in SA now is vaccine hesitancy due to misinformation. Not a lack of jabs.

That's not strictly true. The biggest problem in SA is oversupply now - ie the supply exceeds the ability to get it into people's arms.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/28/world/africa/south-africa-omicron-vaccination.html

 

Apart from that, this issue isn't confined to South Africa. It's in Botswana too. And further spread would seem to be inevitable.

 

But the more general point about the west's failed promises which I made is far more important - it was a quote from Gordon Brown (as per my original link), and he should know as he's the WHO Ambassador for Global Health Financing.

 

He's also the guy that co-ordinated the global response to the Global Financial Crash, the guy who saved global capitalism (for better or for worse).

 

I know that a few people here are fixated by vaccine hesitancy, and yes it's a particularly big problem in your native USA, but other countries have other issues.

[Sheryl]

A trolling post has been removed

[Sheryl]

21 minutes ago, blackprince said:

That's not strictly true. The biggest problem in SA is oversupply now - ie the supply exceeds the ability to get it into people's arms.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/28/world/africa/south-africa-omicron-vaccination.html

 

Apart from that, this issue isn't confined to South Africa. It's in Botswana too. And further spread would seem to be inevitable.

 

But the more general point about the west's failed promises which I made is far more important - it was a quote from Gordon Brown (as per my original link), and he should know as he's the WHO Ambassador for Global Health Financing.

 

He's also the guy that co-ordinated the global response to the Global Financial Crash, the guy who saved global capitalism (for better or for worse).

 

I know that a few people here are fixated by vaccine hesitancy, and yes it's a particularly big problem in your native USA, but other countries have other issues.

Vaccine hesitancy is not inconsiderable in S Africa. This study, which precedes discover of the new variant, found that only 55% of South Africans intended to get vaccinated.

 

https://bmcpublichealth.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12889-021-12196-4

[Led Lolly Yellow Lolly]

What nobody seems to focus on is that while first line defense 'may' be less effective, T-cell defense will still almost certainly remain highly effective against serious illness or hospitalisation. This is what should help you sleep at night. . .

 

Personally I paid for Moderna, even though we had Sinopharm shots very early on. We had our first Moderna booster last week, but the medical advice was to sell our second doses. I find it pretty ironic I now have Moderna shots I'm trying to shift onto extended family.

 

In any case, I feel relaxed I have mixed vaccines which will very likely protect me and my immediate family from serious illness as the virus mutates.

 

 

 

 

Edited November 30, 2021 by Led Lolly Yellow Lolly

[Bkk Brian]

22 minutes ago, blackprince said:

That's not strictly true. The biggest problem in SA is oversupply now - ie the supply exceeds the ability to get it into people's arms.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/28/world/africa/south-africa-omicron-vaccination.html

 

Apart from that, this issue isn't confined to South Africa. It's in Botswana too. And further spread would seem to be inevitable.

 

But the more general point about the west's failed promises which I made is far more important - it was a quote from Gordon Brown (as per my original link), and he should know as he's the WHO Ambassador for Global Health Financing.

 

He's also the guy that co-ordinated the global response to the Global Financial Crash, the guy who saved global capitalism (for better or for worse).

 

I know that a few people here are fixated by vaccine hesitancy, and yes it's a particularly big problem in your native USA, but other countries have other issues.

Vaccine hesitancy or outright opposition has been a barrier to ending the coronavirus pandemic all over the world, though may be a particular problem in South Africa.

A survey found last month that about 54% of nationals say they are unlikely to get a Covid-19 vaccine and almost half say they believe prayer provides more protection than the shots.

One issue of concern in South Africa is a particular reluctance to be vaccinated among men, Crisp said. Almost 60% of those to have received a dose to date have been women.

 

https://businesstech.co.za/news/trending/512982/south-africas-vaccine-headache-switches-from-supply-to-demand/amp/

[Chris.B]

24 minutes ago, blackprince said:

That's not strictly true. The biggest problem in SA is oversupply now - ie the supply exceeds the ability to get it into people's arms.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/28/world/africa/south-africa-omicron-vaccination.html

 

Apart from that, this issue isn't confined to South Africa. It's in Botswana too. And further spread would seem to be inevitable.

 

But the more general point about the west's failed promises which I made is far more important - it was a quote from Gordon Brown (as per my original link), and he should know as he's the WHO Ambassador for Global Health Financing.

 

He's also the guy that co-ordinated the global response to the Global Financial Crash, the guy who saved global capitalism (for better or for worse).

 

I know that a few people here are fixated by vaccine hesitancy, and yes it's a particularly big problem in your native USA, but other countries have other issues.

Was going to reply but realised you are off topic. 

 

 

[Stocky]

2 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

his scientists

Indeed, he's not one of them, just a French billionaire who is the CEO.

[blackprince]

33 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Vaccine hesitancy is not inconsiderable in S Africa. This study, which precedes discover of the new variant, found that only 55% of South Africans intended to get vaccinated.

 

https://bmcpublichealth.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12889-021-12196-4

The narrative is getting a bit mixed up. Here's the actual chronology:

 

1. Mutant variants. The mutant variants have occurreed due to the west not honouring its promises re worldwide vaccine rollout. The west has reneged on its commitments to covax - this is well documented. As per my first link on my OP on this thread. The risk of not vaccinating the whole world has been  communicated clearly ever since the covid vaccines were certified for use.

 

2. The current situation in SA. My 2nd link, from the NYT as far as I remember, demonstrates quite conclusively that currently the issue in SA is over supply - ie the supply of vaccines in SA exceeds the ability to get it into people's arms.

 

3. Vaccine hesitancy in SA: this may become a limiting factor in SA's vaccine rollout in the future, but it is not yet a limiting factor, and neither was it responsible for the emergence of omicron.

 

All of the above is in the public domain.

 

Blaming everything on vaccine hesitancy is an oversimplification of the situation, which may be true for the US, but it's not the main factor in most other parts of the world.

 

 

Edited November 30, 2021 by blackprince