Thai Higher-ups Want To Cull Out Undesirables -

[jitagon]

Anyway, as a result, the home purchase by farangs has deceased greatly. Since a very small % of the Thai population can afford to spend several million baht for a home and farangs can't purchase them, who is purchasing them.

Sure the housing market may take a hit for farangs who buy homes, but I think some people severely overestimates the impact of farangs on the housing market. It's elitist to think that not many Thais can afford these homes. There are plenty who can.

Then maybe you should take a little educational trip around my neighbourhood on Phuket. Not ONE house in this area is owned by a thai national, except those of course who are the wives of the farang who paid for everything. not ONE new house bought, paid for, and occupied by a family whose members are entirely made up of thai nationals. and so where are all your thais who can afford these properties? and of course, the thais who have invested heavily in all the buildings to sell on to said farang (and which are now looking to stay empty for a very long time) are mightiliy pissed off. as one recently glumly pointed out 'what are we to do now? all the rubber trees are gone'. elitist? condescending.

[jdinasia]

Anyway, as a result, the home purchase by farangs has deceased greatly. Since a very small % of the Thai population can afford to spend several million baht for a home and farangs can't purchase them, who is purchasing them.

Sure the housing market may take a hit for farangs who buy homes, but I think some people severely overestimates the impact of farangs on the housing market. It's elitist to think that not many Thais can afford these homes. There are plenty who can.

Then maybe you should take a little educational trip around my neighbourhood on Phuket. Not ONE house in this area is owned by a thai national, except those of course who are the wives of the farang who paid for everything. not ONE new house bought, paid for, and occupied by a family whose members are entirely made up of thai nationals. and so where are all your thais who can afford these properties? and of course, the thais who have invested heavily in all the buildings to sell on to said farang (and which are now looking to stay empty for a very long time) are mightiliy pissed off. as one recently glumly pointed out 'what are we to do now? all the rubber trees are gone'. elitist? condescending.

We must live in DIFFERENT Phukets

[jdinasia]

Thailand was to easy for far to long on visa policy.

You know what that does, it ended up attracting many drop outs, undesirables, unseccessful and nonproductive type farangs. Not the type to build a foreign community on. A true haven for

the scammers of insurance and government income lowlifes.

It definetly is turning off many decent farang retiree's and successful farangs that would come and

spend as they do in the west. Quality of the farang community is almost to the point it is a destitute

bunch of low income drop outs from their own society bringing their failures and problems with them.

A new class of poor arrives.

Then again Thailand gets what is deserves a country that rewards liars and crimminals.

Khun? how many years ago did you leave Thailand? and how long did you live here when you were here?

[jdinasia]

LOL ... a bit daft that!

Makes you wonder how many of Thailand's policy maker's daughters Arty knows?

Not sure were you are coming from slick but you dont need to be a rocket scientist to work out how proud the thais are of there heritage.

Not too long ago they had changing the name of Thailand to Siam on there agenda..... ever thought about the reason why?

So the answer to the question ... How many daughters of policy-makers do you know? is actually ZERO right?

why is knowing their daughters important? It is their parents, usually their dads that you need to know.

Sorry Samran you'd have to go back one more in the post to understand that Smarty Arty proposed that the changes in policy were because policy makers daughters were running around with farang

[Khun ?]

went there most of 20 years when not working. Married one but not the right one, if there is one.

Bought a house there but never lived in it and sold it rather than worry about it being empty.

Just decided after my last couple month vacations there it was not in my future plannings

anymore. The place really turned to crap after the 97 crash, made it to easy for all the trash

from other countries to show up. Didn't work most of my life to live with it like it is now days

as I do not need to live on a budget and much better places to be. Big world, much life to live

and things to see. I know it does not deserve to see any of my baht any longer.

I no longer help the money request I get from there, I put them on ignore now.

[lamphun]

went there most of 20 years when not working. Married one but not the right one, if there is one.

Bought a house there but never lived in it and sold it rather than worry about it being empty.

Just decided after my last couple month vacations there it was not in my future plannings

anymore. The place really turned to crap after the 97 crash, made it to easy for all the trash

from other countries to show up. Didn't work most of my life to live with it like it is now days

as I do not need to live on a budget and much better places to be. Big world, much life to live

and things to see. I know it does not deserve to see any of my baht any longer.

I no longer help the money request I get from there, I put them on ignore now.

I'd say "Visit Thailand Year" 1985 was the turning point.

[Khun ?]

I could only imagine it back that far but a few years later it was a nice place.

I have lived in many places over the years and kind of thinking of living in

the lakes of back home in rural areas. The cost would be at most 25%

more than Thailand and other countries I have been to, but a hel_l of alot more relaxed and trust worthy people.

No one needs to make money off you, or be your friend, other than the commonalities that are shared.

I miss change of seasons, roads you might see another vehicle every mile or two and just putting across the lakes

to drink a few brews and find out what is going on around the neck of woods.

Can always take a few months in cold season and see places like Equador and pplay a few rounds of golf in 75 dgree weather year round at 3k meters altitude.

Edited June 10, 2007 by Khun ?

[Khun ?]

I also have one of these RV's I would like tour around central america and a couple boats I recently bought.

Letting go of Thailand for a while wasn't so easy but thinking over the last couple years has me no where near the place. Life is great and no visa required.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/RARE-92-TOY...1QQcmdZViewItem

[tango]

I also have Thai health insurance.

Hi...Just a note to check the fine print to ensure that your health insurance covers you for life: most stop at age 70, in many cases just when you need it most. My ex-boss wanted me to switch to her sister's Health Ins Co which failed to cover past age 70. I stayed w Blue Cross as I must remain continuously with it as of age 60 and beyond to maintain health coverage for life. Just a thought.

[Lite Beer]

I also have Thai health insurance.

Hi...Just a note to check the fine print to ensure that your health insurance covers you for life: most stop at age 70, in many cases just when you need it most. My ex-boss wanted me to switch to her sister's Health Ins Co which failed to cover past age 70. I stayed w Blue Cross as I must remain continuously with it as of age 60 and beyond to maintain health coverage for life. Just a thought.

Hope I die before I get old.

A good line for a song.

[jdinasia]

went there most of 20 years when not working. Married one but not the right one, if there is one.

Bought a house there but never lived in it and sold it rather than worry about it being empty.

Just decided after my last couple month vacations there it was not in my future plannings

anymore. The place really turned to crap after the 97 crash, made it to easy for all the trash

from other countries to show up. Didn't work most of my life to live with it like it is now days

as I do not need to live on a budget and much better places to be. Big world, much life to live

and things to see. I know it does not deserve to see any of my baht any longer.

I no longer help the money request I get from there, I put them on ignore now.

So the answer to my questions were? .... you don't live here? You didn't live here? You visited here? etc?

Got it ... I knew you weren't in Thailand but it is confusing why your profile says you are

I am also confused why if you "know it <Thailand> does not deserve to see any of my baht any longer" ..... why you participate ? Just to knock a place you could not adjust to? To gloat over people that made <apparently> the same mistakes you did? etc etc

[Khun ?]

why you confused, I am not. A person does not have to live in a place full time to know what they like and don't like.

My profile says I live there has been mentioned before, but you know what, it has been quite a while since I joined here and do not remember the question being ask so it has been that way since I joined.

Why adjust to a place that is changed from the way you liked it. When a place turns to &lt;deleted&gt; you just don't spend your money there no more. They should of cleaned up the visa situation years ago.

Does one need to put on rose colored glasses to post here. The foreign population has increased 10 fold for long stays

in the past decade and I would estimate 80% are of low to barely above poverty incomes in their home countries.

That in itself is not to appealing for most that managed to do average or better and worked on a decent retirement

plan and did not drop out to the must live cheap crowd, to anywhere that would have them on the cheap.

This same crowd the majority hate where they come from, never done anything to advance their situation before they

showed up in anothers country, then complain for being in the same situation they was before they got there but with less to no rights or opportunities, not that it would do them any good anyway.

[65Craig]

went there most of 20 years when not working. Married one but not the right one, if there is one.

Bought a house there but never lived in it and sold it rather than worry about it being empty.

Just decided after my last couple month vacations there it was not in my future plannings

anymore. The place really turned to crap after the 97 crash, made it to easy for all the trash

from other countries to show up. Didn't work most of my life to live with it like it is now days

as I do not need to live on a budget and much better places to be. Big world, much life to live

and things to see. I know it does not deserve to see any of my baht any longer.

I no longer help the money request I get from there, I put them on ignore now.

Just curious... Why do you even bother posting on a Thai Forum site when obviously you don't like what the country has become since '97 and seem to have no plans on entering again or have the country see any of your money?

[Gary A]

why you confused, I am not. A person does not have to live in a place full time to know what they like and don't like.

My profile says I live there has been mentioned before, but you know what, it has been quite a while since I joined here and do not remember the question being ask so it has been that way since I joined.

Why adjust to a place that is changed from the way you liked it. When a place turns to &lt;deleted&gt; you just don't spend your money there no more. They should of cleaned up the visa situation years ago.

Does one need to put on rose colored glasses to post here. The foreign population has increased 10 fold for long stays

in the past decade and I would estimate 80% are of low to barely above poverty incomes in their home countries.

That in itself is not to appealing for most that managed to do average or better and worked on a decent retirement

plan and did not drop out to the must live cheap crowd, to anywhere that would have them on the cheap.

This same crowd the majority hate where they come from, never done anything to advance their situation before they

showed up in anothers country, then complain for being in the same situation they was before they got there but with less to no rights or opportunities, not that it would do them any good anyway.

Yes, and I have seen your type also. Condescending looks at other people and always an obvious better than thou attitude. You can keep your little aluminum jon boat and cross that lake for the three or four months of the year when it isn't frozen. Feel perfectly free to stay in your little tin can and park in the supermarket parking lots. Perhaps you come from circumstances where you were born with a silver spoon in your mouth and are now running low on cash.

I'm quite happy living where it never freezes and where I don't have to keep up with my neighbors. I'm also happy that I don't have to report to anyone where I spend my money because what I have is mine. No one ever gave me anything so I'm not accountable to anyone.

You are free to live where you choose and I'll just stay here if that's alright with you.

[backflip]

"I've just read several threads in this 'Thai visa' category and it saddens me...."

Thus began the very first post on this thread. Immediately following the post is an advertisement for the "Envirolet Composting Toilet". Is this just a coincidence, or a harbinger for the discussion that followed?

[phutoie2]

The only change in the retirement visa that I can remember is they lowered the age to 50. It has been the 800,000 in the bank or 65,000 per month for a long time. I have never seen anyone use the combination of both used but that supposedly is doable.

Just done it at Bangkok immigration, 500,000 baht in Bangkok Bank and pension from UK at 51,000 baht per month, Result = retirement pension for one year. (I am over 50)

Confusing to me as well, as on TM7, I was asking for one year extension based on marriage to Thai wife.

[Gary A]

The only change in the retirement visa that I can remember is they lowered the age to 50. It has been the 800,000 in the bank or 65,000 per month for a long time. I have never seen anyone use the combination of both used but that supposedly is doable.

Just done it at Bangkok immigration, 500,000 baht in Bangkok Bank and pension from UK at 51,000 baht per month, Result = retirement pension for one year. (I am over 50)

Confusing to me as well, as on TM7, I was asking for one year extension based on marriage to Thai wife.

Immigration would much rather that you get a retirement visa than the marriage visa. It saves them a lot of work and it is a lot easier for you and yours.

[brahmburgers]

am just wondering why there were no responses to my earlier assertion that farang (short-termers and long-haulers) bring in roughly 180 billion baht per year - of outside money. That's numbers from one set of calculations, taking in to account dowries, land purchases, biz start-ups, ....as well as monthly incidentals. How does it relate to my OP, one might ask?

It relates because we're talking about how Thai imm regulations, in their various interpretations, appear to dissuade good farang at least as much as dissuade so-called 'undesirables' from staying here. When the immense amount of outside revenue we bring in is taken in to account, that's should make the heavies in BKK wake up and smell the coffee. ....perhaps, just maybe, they may adjust their miscombobulated visa rules and instead implement regulations that are more sensible, consistant, and fair.

The result of not amending the rules could be a continuation of the trend of decent farang leaving Thailand - to settle elsewhere.

Edited June 11, 2007 by brahmburgers

[wolfmanjack]

am just wondering why there were no responses to my earlier assertion that farang (short-termers and long-haulers) bring in roughly 180 billion baht per year - of outside money. That's numbers from one set of calculations, taking in to account dowries, land purchases, biz start-ups, ....as well as monthly incidentals. How does it relate to my OP, one might ask?

It relates because we're talking about how Thai imm regulations, in their various interpretations, appear to dissuade good farang at least as much as dissuade so-called 'undesirables' from staying here. When the immense amount of outside revenue we bring in is taken in to account, that's should make the heavies in BKK wake up and smell the coffee. ....perhaps, just maybe, they may adjust their miscombobulated visa rules and instead implement regulations that are more sensible, consistant, and fair.

The result of not amending the rules could be a continuation of the trend of decent farang leaving Thailand - to settle elsewhere.

The current rules do not dissuade short timers so the money they contribute should not be in your calculations. I believe there are many billions of baht in the long term falangs though and also agree that some of the new rules are getting rid of or at least irritating good falangs that live here. This may be their intention so instead of waking up and smelling the coffee they may be breaking out the champagne. The HiSo's and most of the ruling elite do not care about the poor thais that directly benefit from the income brought in by us. that is why they are making it harder to stay when the only thing they really have to do is make it a requirement that you have a police check to get a long term visa if the reason is to get rid of the criminal element.

[JR Texas]

am just wondering why there were no responses to my earlier assertion that farang (short-termers and long-haulers) bring in roughly 180 billion baht per year - of outside money. That's numbers from one set of calculations, taking in to account dowries, land purchases, biz start-ups, ....as well as monthly incidentals. How does it relate to my OP, one might ask?

It relates because we're talking about how Thai imm regulations, in their various interpretations, appear to dissuade good farang at least as much as dissuade so-called 'undesirables' from staying here. When the immense amount of outside revenue we bring in is taken in to account, that's should make the heavies in BKK wake up and smell the coffee. ....perhaps, just maybe, they may adjust their miscombobulated visa rules and instead implement regulations that are more sensible, consistant, and fair.

The result of not amending the rules could be a continuation of the trend of decent farang leaving Thailand - to settle elsewhere.

The current rules do not dissuade short timers so the money they contribute should not be in your calculations. I believe there are many billions of baht in the long term falangs though and also agree that some of the new rules are getting rid of or at least irritating good falangs that live here. This may be their intention so instead of waking up and smelling the coffee they may be breaking out the champagne. The HiSo's and most of the ruling elite do not care about the poor thais that directly benefit from the income brought in by us. that is why they are making it harder to stay when the only thing they really have to do is make it a requirement that you have a police check to get a long term visa if the reason is to get rid of the criminal element.

JR Texas: Simple solution for long-term residence if you do not meet the current rules: criminal background check (done from local embassy) plus simple payment system for unlimited number of extensions (1, 3, 6, 12 months). No more running around from country to country for stamps.........

So freakin' simple, even an idiot from Texas can figure it out! The problem is, as stated many times, the rule changes have nothing to do with preventing crime. If they did, then such solutions would be taken seriously.

Relatedly, if money is the sole criterion, such a system would address that issue (pay-to-stay?).

To me (and a growing number of others), what is happening smacks of xenophobia.

[Mid]

xenophobia

wish it was easier to spell ..........................................

[jdinasia]

JR ....

You spend more money running around ...

plus far more importantly you have your papers checked at borders/airports etc on a regular basis.

I would rather see a 30k non-imm multi available here than having to travel ... but hel_l once a year to head out to the UK/USA/Australia is not an issue

if you want to talk about hard visas .... try the USA or even Texas

[Khun ?]

Yeah guess I am not the type to bragg how cheap I am or need to be. Then be the saviour of some poor populace that puts up

with my sorry arse for the money and play god to. I am still working and posting this from my place of work which I own. I also employee a couple guys with thai families who are on western wages well above average western pay. Been of average western income most of my life but did manage to help others before I done for myself many times which was not by legal obligation or I lived and benefitted from it also.

Keep up with the visa requirements and reporting your monetary worth. Enjoy the two weeks of bearable temps a year

and hope the rains permit the neighbors fields to flourish while the all mighty farang is their gold standard of living in the hood.

Must be hard knowing the commodity you are is some day not going to be good enough to keep you around.

I might be selling my tin can then if you can afford to make it to the beach or forest in The Americas somewhere.

I do not have any Jon boats but a spare tube may be available at the local tire shop if needed.

Enjoy life, be kewl and not the families needed fool.

why you confused, I am not. A person does not have to live in a place full time to know what they like and don't like.

My profile says I live there has been mentioned before, but you know what, it has been quite a while since I joined here and do not remember the question being ask so it has been that way since I joined.

Why adjust to a place that is changed from the way you liked it. When a place turns to &lt;deleted&gt; you just don't spend your money there no more. They should of cleaned up the visa situation years ago.

Does one need to put on rose colored glasses to post here. The foreign population has increased 10 fold for long stays

in the past decade and I would estimate 80% are of low to barely above poverty incomes in their home countries.

That in itself is not to appealing for most that managed to do average or better and worked on a decent retirement

plan and did not drop out to the must live cheap crowd, to anywhere that would have them on the cheap.

This same crowd the majority hate where they come from, never done anything to advance their situation before they

showed up in anothers country, then complain for being in the same situation they was before they got there but with less to no rights or opportunities, not that it would do them any good anyway.

Yes, and I have seen your type also. Condescending looks at other people and always an obvious better than thou attitude. You can keep your little aluminum jon boat and cross that lake for the three or four months of the year when it isn't frozen. Feel perfectly free to stay in your little tin can and park in the supermarket parking lots. Perhaps you come from circumstances where you were born with a silver spoon in your mouth and are now running low on cash.

I'm quite happy living where it never freezes and where I don't have to keep up with my neighbors. I'm also happy that I don't have to report to anyone where I spend my money because what I have is mine. No one ever gave me anything so I'm not accountable to anyone.

You are free to live where you choose and I'll just stay here if that's alright with you.

[jdinasia]

went there most of 20 years when not working. Married one but not the right one, if there is one.

Bought a house there but never lived in it and sold it rather than worry about it being empty.

Just decided after my last couple month vacations there it was not in my future plannings

anymore. The place really turned to crap after the 97 crash, made it to easy for all the trash

from other countries to show up. Didn't work most of my life to live with it like it is now days

as I do not need to live on a budget and much better places to be. Big world, much life to live

and things to see. I know it does not deserve to see any of my baht any longer.

I no longer help the money request I get from there, I put them on ignore now.

Just curious... Why do you even bother posting on a Thai Forum site when obviously you don't like what the country has become since '97 and seem to have no plans on entering again or have the country see any of your money?

Simple ... he couldn't cope ... and resents people that can! Strangely I never hang out in the Central America forums online ... went there often over the years!! Lived there for 6 months ... I couldn't cope! I left! <Not with a "they'll never see any of my $$ again!" kind of statement though ... I coped well enough to go back with friends etc if they want to go > Why would I waste my valuable lifetime whinging on about a place I just couldn't cope living in? .... oh wait I wouldn't!

[wolfmanjack]

Earlier some of us were talking about the impact that the falangs that live here full time have on the thai economy. I found a website, BBC NEWS, that estimates there a 41,000 brits living in thailand. I used the number of 100,000 in my earlier post. Based on 41,000 Brits I would guess there are around 100,000 americans. Another website says there are over 1 million americans (as in from the USA) living in Mexico. Imagine the amount of foreign income that is already being brought in by expats and the amount that could be brought in.

[Khun ?]

why does anyone need to cope with a place that they have been to for almost 20 years.

Time to try a new pair of shoes, better things to do than cheap women and booze and low income foreigners.

I do read several message boards, newspapers and classifieds from latin countries. None of them seem to have the

visa complainers that fall apart all to often in basic life situations as asia.

Edited June 11, 2007 by Khun ?

[JR Texas]

Earlier some of us were talking about the impact that the falangs that live here full time have on the thai economy. I found a website, BBC NEWS, that estimates there a 41,000 brits living in thailand. I used the number of 100,000 in my earlier post. Based on 41,000 Brits I would guess there are around 100,000 americans. Another website says there are over 1 million americans (as in from the USA) living in Mexico. Imagine the amount of foreign income that is already being brought in by expats and the amount that could be brought in.

JR Texas: I think the economic impact of the "long-stays" is significant........no idea, actually, what it is. But it has to be a large number. I think the impact of the long-stays is particularly significant during the off season.

Some argue that the rich, short-stay tourists are more valuable..........my guess is that they are not. But I do not have any hard evidence on this.

Wolfmanjack.......I think you commented on the fact that you once studied economics, so you are aware that every single dollar matters (especially in a developing country).........and that dollars circulate within an economy (except for when they get into the hands of the extremely rich and then they move out of the country into secret bank accounts in places like Switzerland, Austria, Hong Kong, Singapore and Panama).

Why Thailand would want to eliminate even one dollar is a mystery to me.......makes no economic sense.....both rich and not-so rich farangs spend dollars.

[wolfmanjack]

Earlier some of us were talking about the impact that the falangs that live here full time have on the thai economy. I found a website, BBC NEWS, that estimates there a 41,000 brits living in thailand. I used the number of 100,000 in my earlier post. Based on 41,000 Brits I would guess there are around 100,000 americans. Another website says there are over 1 million americans (as in from the USA) living in Mexico. Imagine the amount of foreign income that is already being brought in by expats and the amount that could be brought in.

JR Texas: I think the economic impact of the "long-stays" is significant........no idea, actually, what it is. But it has to be a large number. I think the impact of the long-stays is particularly significant during the off season.

Some argue that the rich, short-stay tourists are more valuable..........my guess is that they are not. But I do not have any hard evidence on this.

Wolfmanjack.......I think you commented on the fact that you once studied economics, so you are aware that every single dollar matters (especially in a developing country).........and that dollars circulate within an economy (except for when they get into the hands of the extremely rich and then they move out of the country into secret bank accounts in places like Switzerland, Austria, Hong Kong, Singapore and Panama).

Why Thailand would want to eliminate even one dollar is a mystery to me.......makes no economic sense.....both rich and not-so rich farangs spend dollars.

Yes JR I majored in Economics and minored in finance. That was a long time ago and I do not remember all I learned. Also things have changed Since then. None of my professors taught the trickle down theory. As you pointed out the extremely rich are one of the siphoning off factors that lowers the money multiplier ratio.

The money circulating in the economy is what i was trying to get across in my posts about the money multiplier. My new guess on the number of Falangs living here now has to be around 400,000-500,000. That is a huge impact on the economy when you consider the incomes of those people and most of that money coming in as foreign currency.

It also baffles me why thailand would want to eliminate $$$ that are so easy to get. The retirement market should be sought after by a country with so many poor people. the jobs that could be created could take care of all of the graduates that want to enter the work force every year.

[Gary A]

I'd guess that each retired farang would on average spend a minimum of 40,000 baht per month. My living expenses are less than 30,000 per month but I like a lot of unneeded toys and big boy toys are expensive. If we knew how many farangs are actually retired here, I'd say a half million a year would be a safe estimate.

[lopburi3]

I would suggest someone look at there extension number before they make half a million guesstimates for the number of holders. Mine were done in the middle of the year and Thai wife was way under 3,000 and for retirement is very low three digits (this is in Bangkok).