Derogatory Or Not?

[phibunmike]

It's either black or white, are both Paki and Aussie are acceptable or not?

I think that is an over-simplification. A term gains its derogatory aspect, not simply from being a slang or abbreviated term, but from the intention behind it.

Aussie is used as an abbreviation, and quite often affectionately. Paki, from my experience, is usually said without affection - in fact the opposite - making it derogatory.

Similarly, Negro was originally supposed to be a neutral term - but later it gained negative connotations (through usage), and thus became a derogatory term. It wasn't because of the word itself, but the way it was used. Nigger, used by whites, is usually derogatory; used by blacks, it can imply kinship - the "acceptableness" of a word comes from the emotion behind it, not from the spelling.

Cheers,

Mike

[dave111223]

In England i've hear it many times, but usually accomanpied by some other choice works.

"Oi! You **#@*$ paki, $@$* off!"

"I think that $*@$@$* paki just kept half my change"

etc...

I've never heard the term used outside of England.

It blows my mind that 41% think it is a good word? I'm guessing mostly the people voting "No" are the people who have used it but don't want to consider themselves a racist.

I'd like to see one of these 41% go up to some Indian looking bloke on the street and address him as "Hey Paki" and find out if they are correct.

[bdenner]

Spare me days. Armageddon is upon us:- Climate change, the lack of fossil fuels, the big astroid is about to collide, that idiot GB is still has his finger on the button etc. all are about to destroy the world and all you bloody hand wringers and social engineers (now them last few words are racist) have got to worry about is if we should call a Paki a Paki or an Aussie an Aussie or whatever. Give me a break!!

[kmart]

As an often discriminated against "ethnic minority" in Thailand, I wonder if anyone is willing to fight my case against discrimination; dual-pricing; and shoddy services based on my skin colour alone? Bwaa, sob, wub-wub....

Didn't think so. Thailand is one of the least PC countries in the world. I wish the hand-wringers; shoe-gazers; and liberal apologists would go braid their hair and juggle bean bags somewhere else, thanks.

[qwertz]

Back home in Blighty I was called a Mick, although I was born in England (of Irish parents) and have never visited Ireland.

In Thailand I'm a farang and here in Germany I'm a Tommy, or der Engländer.

I'll start to worry if I'm ever called "the accused".

[farang prince]

Some US soldiers call Iraqi kids (Iraqipaki) although there is no mixed blood ppl of those 2 races in Iraq ,till now I wanna find out why they had used that term to call those miserable kids.

so its really common to be degraded or insulted by racist slurs as (Macaca) just for being not from a certain race or religion.

I was in Iraq a couple of years ago training Iraqi policemen. I was around hundreds of U.S. troops and I never heard any of them callling Iraqi kids "Iraqipaki". In fact, when Iraqi kids were around the U.S troops that I was with, the troops were gentle and very generous with the kids. I'm curious where you got this information.

Edited June 11, 2007 by farang prince

[smartecosse]

In England i've hear it many times, but usually accomanpied by some other choice works.

"Oi! You **#@*$ paki, $@$* off!"

"I think that $*@$@$* paki just kept half my change"

etc...

I've never heard the term used outside of England.

It blows my mind that 41% think it is a good word? I'm guessing mostly the people voting "No" are the people who have used it but don't want to consider themselves a racist.

I'd like to see one of these 41% go up to some Indian looking bloke on the street and address him as "Hey Paki" and find out if they are correct.

it was myself that started this thread as I was curious what other peoples opinions of the word paki were based on a discussion in another thread.

Like you I am amazed that such a high proportion actually think that its acceptable, absolutely amazing in this day & age. I thunk you are right in the fact that the voting for NO is people trying to justify that the words that they use isn't derogatory when in fact is.

For those people that have voted no,

Do you called Pakistani's "Paki's" to there face....................... such as

excuse me Paki, can I have 20 L&M please?

oi, Paki, Two cokes and a pint of whatever?

not quite the sme as saying "oi mate" is it but you 40% of you seem to think that it is.................

[farang prince]

In England i've hear it many times, but usually accomanpied by some other choice works.

"Oi! You **#@*$ paki, $@$* off!"

"I think that $*@$@$* paki just kept half my change"

etc...

I've never heard the term used outside of England.

It blows my mind that 41% think it is a good word? I'm guessing mostly the people voting "No" are the people who have used it but don't want to consider themselves a racist.

I'd like to see one of these 41% go up to some Indian looking bloke on the street and address him as "Hey Paki" and find out if they are correct.

it was myself that started this thread as I was curious what other peoples opinions of the word paki were based on a discussion in another thread.

Like you I am amazed that such a high proportion actually think that its acceptable, absolutely amazing in this day & age. I thunk you are right in the fact that the voting for NO is people trying to justify that the words that they use isn't derogatory when in fact is.

For those people that have voted no,

Do you called Pakistani's "Paki's" to there face....................... such as

excuse me Paki, can I have 20 L&M please?

oi, Paki, Two cokes and a pint of whatever?

not quite the sme as saying "oi mate" is it but you 40% of you seem to think that it is.................

The answer, Smartecosse, is that of course they don't. Nor do people who call blacks by the "N" word go into the ghetto and say it...unless they have a death wish. These racial slurs are always said among their peers, whose head nodding or silence, gives bigots tacit support. Bigots are cowards.

[smartecosse]

yeah but 40 % of those voting think that its ok

i mean if they really think that its not derogatory then going

oi paki, 2 pints here etc is acceptable by their standards. nice class of posters on TV eh

[zaza]

Some US soldiers call Iraqi kids (Iraqipaki) although there is no mixed blood ppl of those 2 races in Iraq ,till now I wanna find out why they had used that term to call those miserable kids.

so its really common to be degraded or insulted by racist slurs as (Macaca) just for being not from a certain race or religion.

I was in Iraq a couple of years ago training Iraqi policemen. I was around hundreds of U.S. troops and I never heard any of them callling Iraqi kids "Iraqipaki". In fact, when Iraqi kids were around the U.S troops that I was with, the troops were gentle and very generous with the kids. I'm curious where you got this information.

It seems to be you were a high ranking (GRWON UP) officer there;so I would ask you myself how many times you had been with a US patrol roving the streets and houses in Baghdad? did u have any contact with ordinary civilan Iraqi ppl(neither police-army men nor insurgents)? Do u know what the(YOUNG) US army men say or do when they enter or search the Iraqi houses ?????( rape cases, stealing jewelery and over use of power )

For forther information; pls take off your black sun glasses and step down from your armored vehicle to interact with this 3D war US game next time you hit Iraq and only then you can meet and hear what's going on there.

BTW; thanks for democrazy and OIL you had brought to Iraq

PS: OIL stands for :Operation Iraqi Liberation

Edited June 12, 2007 by zaza

[farang prince]

Some US soldiers call Iraqi kids (Iraqipaki) although there is no mixed blood ppl of those 2 races in Iraq ,till now I wanna find out why they had used that term to call those miserable kids.

so its really common to be degraded or insulted by racist slurs as (Macaca) just for being not from a certain race or religion.

I was in Iraq a couple of years ago training Iraqi policemen. I was around hundreds of U.S. troops and I never heard any of them callling Iraqi kids "Iraqipaki". In fact, when Iraqi kids were around the U.S troops that I was with, the troops were gentle and very generous with the kids. I'm curious where you got this information.

It seems to be you were a high ranking (GRWON UP) officer there;so I would ask you myself how many times you had been with a US patrol roving the streets and houses in Baghdad? did u have any contact with ordinary civilan Iraqi ppl(neither police-army men nor insurgents)? Do u know what the(YOUNG) US army men say or do when they enter or search the Iraqi houses ?????( rape cases, stealing jewelery and over use of power )

For forther information; pls take off your black sun glasses and step down from your armored vehicle to interact with this 3D war US game next time you hit Iraq and only then you can meet and hear what's going on there.

BTW; thanks for democrazy and OIL you had brought to Iraq

PS: OIL stands for :Operation Iraqi Liberation

I asked you a simple question: Where did you get the information that U.S. soldiers are calling Iraqi youngsters "Iraqipakis." You responded like a typical troll. It didn't take you long for your Credibility Meter to match your IQ -- 0.

[Scott]

I don't consider myself to be PC, but I don't like being called a Yank and I usually just don't respond to it. If people ask me "are you a Yank?" I tell them "no." It just seems like it's some sort of a setup for something. You don't know my name and don't seem to want to, but you want to know where I am from--like that is the deciding factor? I don't particularly like to identify people by place to begin with. Most of them have a name and that is who they are. I don't call people Pakis, Aussie's, Kiwi's or Brits.

I have friends who are from the UK and I have called them British and I've been corrected and told they were Welch, or Scottish or English. I've called them English and been corrected....

[canuckamuck]

I imagine if you walked onto a bar in Georgia or some other such place in the southern US and starting calling people yanks, you might have a little trouble opening your swollen eyelids in the morning. But maybe that's my Hollywood concept of the US talking.

Sometimes I think people go to far on the PC side though. There is a mountain near my home in Canada that aquired its name when a Chinese railway worker climbed to the top of it on a bet. For the next hundred years it was called Chinaman’s Peak. But then a bunch a PC wing nuts got together and declared it to be racist and they changed the mountains name to Ha ling’s Peak which is the name of the guy who climbed it. Why is it that the term Chinaman is racist, when Scotchman or Englishman is proper? We even have a Scotchman’s Hill, in the city nearby.

At least with a name like Chinaman’s Peak, you get a sense of the history and the attitudes of the day. And a bit of the often tragic story of building the railway through the Rockies. Thousands of Chinese workers were worked to death, the mountain was about all the recognition there was. Why must we revise history?

ha_ling.bmp

[farang prince]

I imagine if you walked onto a bar in Georgia or some other such place in the southern US and starting calling people yanks, you might have a little trouble opening your swollen eyelids in the morning. But maybe that's my Hollywood concept of the US talking.

Sometimes I think people go to far on the PC side though. There is a mountain near my home in Canada that aquired its name when a Chinese railway worker climbed to the top of it on a bet. For the next hundred years it was called Chinaman’s Peak. But then a bunch a PC wing nuts got together and declared it to be racist and they changed the mountains name to Ha ling’s Peak which is the name of the guy who climbed it. Why is it that the term Chinaman is racist, when Scotchman or Englishman is proper? We even have a Scotchman’s Hill, in the city nearby.

At least with a name like Chinaman’s Peak, you get a sense of the history and the attitudes of the day. And a bit of the often tragic story of building the railway through the Rockies. Thousands of Chinese workers were worked to death, the mountain was about all the recognition there was. Why must we revise history?

Canuckamuck, I agree with you that political correctness has gotten way out of control. At the same time, we have to recognize that there was a lot of racism among our forebears. Personally, if I was a Canadian government official involved with hearing a complaint about the naming of a mountain "Chinaman's Peak" I would probably have pointed out that maps for the last 100+ years have listed the mountain that way and that it has historical significance. No one is more politically correct than the Canadian government, who seem to run from their own shadow any time there is controversy over a racial or ethnic issue. As a dual citizen (Canadian/American), I sometimes wonder if there is a political leader in Canada that still has some balls left. It began with the Quebecoise issue, then spread to the indigenous tribes and has continued unabated through the years. I'm sure you often shake your head and wonder what will be next.

Getting back to the topic of the thread, I do have serious problems with calling an ethnic or racial group a name that is upsetting to the majority of them. I think the term "Paki" is highly offensive, especially in the context of how it is most often used. I just refuse to go along with racial or ethnic slurs that are insulting or hurtful and I can't understand the psyche of people who don't think that is a problem.

By the way, the American South is changing rapidly. Yes, there are still plenty of rednecks around, but they are being quickly outnumbered by highly educated, professional people from all over the United States, who are taking advantage of the tremendous economic growth throughout the South.

[Nebukanezar]

Damm 40% Think that calling someone a paki is cool? Must be allot of racists visiting the forum. You know there are allot more closet bigots than you may think. I never realized it till I started playing MMoRPGs (online games like World of Warcraft) or posting to You Tube. But take you tube for example, the amount of times people have called me Nigger on line has no joke got to be a 1000 to one ratio to how many times someone has had the balls to say it to my face.

I think it's just the nature of the spineless, racist peasant. Deep down they know their place in the food chain. Scum, truly dregs.

[kmart]

Damm 40% Think that calling someone a paki is cool? Must be allot of racists visiting the forum. You know there are allot more closet bigots than you may think. I never realized it till I started playing MMoRPGs (online games like World of Warcraft) or posting to You Tube. But take you tube for example, the amount of times people have called me Nigger on line has no joke got to be a 1000 to one ratio to how many times someone has had the balls to say it to my face.

I think it's just the nature of the spineless, racist peasant. Deep down they know their place in the food chain. Scum, truly dregs.

You never get any comments from Thais regarding your skin colour?

[November Rain]

Damm 40% Think that calling someone a paki is cool? Must be allot of racists visiting the forum. You know there are allot more closet bigots than you may think. I never realized it till I started playing MMoRPGs (online games like World of Warcraft) or posting to You Tube. But take you tube for example, the amount of times people have called me Nigger on line has no joke got to be a 1000 to one ratio to how many times someone has had the balls to say it to my face.

I think it's just the nature of the spineless, racist peasant. Deep down they know their place in the food chain. Scum, truly dregs.

Genuine question, as I don't play online games, so I don't know: How do they know what colour you are? Do you have a photographic avatar (like here) that one might assume is you, or is there another reason?

[Aujuba]

As an American I can say I had never heard the word until I came out to Asia and met English people. Words change with time. If people don't like, it don't use it. If you know a word might bother some people why would you use it other than to bother. You must be able to use other words to say the same thing. I don't know what the Redcoats think of this but they really should move on.

[PhilHarries]

Some folk seem to have misread the question.

The question was, is the term Paki derogatory or not?

It was not, is the term Paki cool/good?

There is a subtle difference and that's how you fail your finals, not reading the question.

As for whether the term is derogatory, I think it depends on the situation it is used in and the tone of your voice. I worked with a woman of Pakistani descent and she often referred to her bretheren as Pakis and when challenged over it merely pointed out it is a shortened form of Pakistani.

The use of the word traditionally in the UK is derogatory due to the way in which it has been used as a term of racial hatred. The fact that in the majority of occasions it is used it is nationalistically and racially incorrect would go right over the heads of those who are likely to use it.

Some people think the term farang is derogatory and racist yet many on this forum would disagree and claim it is just a term to refer to a grouping of peoples with white skin and round eyes So it's not derogatory for Thais to call caucasians farangs but it is for caucasians to call southern Asians Pakis.

So what is the PC term for people from the Indian sub-continent including, but not necessarily limited to, Indians, Pakistanis, Bangladeshis, Sri Lankans and Kashmiris(?)? How do you differentiate in conversation between ethnically diverse groups when you only know their broad ethnicity?

[endure]

So what is the PC term for people from the Indian sub-continent including, but not necessarily limited to, Indians, Pakistanis, Bangladeshis, Sri Lankans and Kashmiris(?)? How do you differentiate in conversation between ethnically diverse groups when you only know their broad ethnicity?

It depends where you come from. In the UK the PC term for people from the sub-continent is 'Asian'.

[Lucifer]

Some folk seem to have misread the question.

So what is the PC term for people from the Indian sub-continent including, but not necessarily limited to, Indians, Pakistanis, Bangladeshis, Sri Lankans and Kashmiris(?)? How do you differentiate in conversation between ethnically diverse groups when you only know their broad ethnicity?

Lets change some names...

So what is the PC term for people from the European sub-continent including, but not necessarily limited to, English, French, Germans, Italians, Spanish. How do you differentiate in conversation between ethnically diverse groups when you only know their broad ethnicity?

You've not thought this through, have you?

[Nebukanezar]

Damm 40% Think that calling someone a paki is cool? Must be allot of racists visiting the forum. You know there are allot more closet bigots than you may think. I never realized it till I started playing MMoRPGs (online games like World of Warcraft) or posting to You Tube. But take you tube for example, the amount of times people have called me Nigger on line has no joke got to be a 1000 to one ratio to how many times someone has had the balls to say it to my face.

I think it's just the nature of the spineless, racist peasant. Deep down they know their place in the food chain. Scum, truly dregs.

Genuine question, as I don't play online games, so I don't know: How do they know what colour you are? Do you have a photographic avatar (like here) that one might assume is you, or is there another reason?

Sure, they have gotten VERY advanced these days. The better ones allow you a myriad of customization options everything from skin color to facial pericings Check out the attached pic, you can't see my Avatar clearly in it but check out his face in the upper left hand corner. Then take a look at what is being said in the conversation window. We had just went after a very potent bad guy and he had a weapon myself and another person in the group could both use. We rolled for it (the computer randomly generates a number for the each of us between 1 - 100 the highest number wins) and I won. He becomes belligerent and calls me a "Black Nigger" one of many times..if You could can see You Tube (not in Thailand or have other means)

search for "Soulrutep" and see how many times I get racists stuff against hurled at me. No biggie though because in real life these folks have the good sense to keep their mouth shut.

I'm just surprised that 40% of folks think calling someone a Paki ,the way it's most commonly used, is cool.

Edited June 15, 2007 by Nebukanezar

[Nebukanezar]

Damm 40% Think that calling someone a paki is cool? Must be allot of racists visiting the forum. You know there are allot more closet bigots than you may think. I never realized it till I started playing MMoRPGs (online games like World of Warcraft) or posting to You Tube. But take you tube for example, the amount of times people have called me Nigger on line has no joke got to be a 1000 to one ratio to how many times someone has had the balls to say it to my face.

I think it's just the nature of the spineless, racist peasant. Deep down they know their place in the food chain. Scum, truly dregs.

You never get any comments from Thais regarding your skin colour?

Yes I commonly get comments about being from Kuwait or Dubai. Thais often Mistake me for being Arab. Then when I lived in Pattaya I used to get comments inquiring into certain masculine physical differences Neither of which I ever found to be at all offensive.

My fiance' (Thai) loves my color and begs me to go out side and lay next to the pool or on a beach so she can tan and get darker.

No I can honestly say the only negative comments I ever got about my skin color in Thailand were from white people, and English ones, if I need be more precise

Edited June 15, 2007 by Nebukanezar

[Nebukanezar]

Some folk seem to have misread the question.

So what is the PC term for people from the Indian sub-continent including, but not necessarily limited to, Indians, Pakistanis, Bangladeshis, Sri Lankans and Kashmiris(?)? How do you differentiate in conversation between ethnically diverse groups when you only know their broad ethnicity?

Lets change some names...

So what is the PC term for people from the European sub-continent including, but not necessarily limited to, English, French, Germans, Italians, Spanish. How do you differentiate in conversation between ethnically diverse groups when you only know their broad ethnicity?

You've not thought this through, have you?

Umm a no brainer, how about Europeans?

[LaReina]

Some US soldiers call Iraqi kids (Iraqipaki) although there is no mixed blood ppl of those 2 races in Iraq ,till now I wanna find out why they had used that term to call those miserable kids.

so its really common to be degraded or insulted by racist slurs as (Macaca) just for being not from a certain race or religion.

I was in Iraq a couple of years ago training Iraqi policemen. I was around hundreds of U.S. troops and I never heard any of them callling Iraqi kids "Iraqipaki". In fact, when Iraqi kids were around the U.S troops that I was with, the troops were gentle and very generous with the kids. I'm curious where you got this information.

It seems to be you were a high ranking (GRWON UP) officer there;so I would ask you myself how many times you had been with a US patrol roving the streets and houses in Baghdad? did u have any contact with ordinary civilan Iraqi ppl(neither police-army men nor insurgents)? Do u know what the(YOUNG) US army men say or do when they enter or search the Iraqi houses ?????( rape cases, stealing jewelery and over use of power )

For forther information; pls take off your black sun glasses and step down from your armored vehicle to interact with this 3D war US game next time you hit Iraq and only then you can meet and hear what's going on there.

BTW; thanks for democrazy and OIL you had brought to Iraq

PS: OIL stands for :Operation Iraqi Liberation

I asked you a simple question: Where did you get the information that U.S. soldiers are calling Iraqi youngsters "Iraqipakis." You responded like a typical troll. It didn't take you long for your Credibility Meter to match your IQ -- 0.

There ain't no way in hades that american soldiers where calling anyone paki anything. Half of the country does not know where Pakistan is, and I do not believe there are enough people from Pakistan in the US, for that term even to be used. Not all english speakers in Iraq are american.

But.. for the record, the term Yank is offensive, although most americans outside of the US shrug it off. It became considered derogatory during the civil war, and is still used in the South to refer to anyone from up North. Unfortunately, most southerners, consider any state that was not part of the confederation (even those that did not exist at the time of the civil war) to be the Union.

If you want to p*ss off a southerner you call them a yank. ALthough the word d*mn is usually in front of the word yank.

[November Rain]

Damm 40% Think that calling someone a paki is cool? Must be allot of racists visiting the forum. You know there are allot more closet bigots than you may think. I never realized it till I started playing MMoRPGs (online games like World of Warcraft) or posting to You Tube. But take you tube for example, the amount of times people have called me Nigger on line has no joke got to be a 1000 to one ratio to how many times someone has had the balls to say it to my face.

I think it's just the nature of the spineless, racist peasant. Deep down they know their place in the food chain. Scum, truly dregs.

Genuine question, as I don't play online games, so I don't know: How do they know what colour you are? Do you have a photographic avatar (like here) that one might assume is you, or is there another reason?

Sure, they have gotten VERY advanced these days. The better ones allow you a myriad of customization options everything from skin color to facial pericings Check out the attached pic, you can't see my Avatar clearly in it but check out his face in the upper left hand corner. Then take a look at what is being said in the conversation window. We had just went after a very potent bad guy and he had a weapon myself and another person in the group could both use. We rolled for it (the computer randomly generates a number for the each of us between 1 - 100 the highest number wins) and I won. He becomes belligerent and calls me a "Black Nigger" one of many times..

Having read that comment, I can absolutely see why you get pi$$ed off. How the h3ll do people get attitudes like that? Is there a cyber equivalent of a smack in the mouth, that you can reply with?

[calibanjr.]

Damm 40% Think that calling someone a paki is cool? Must be allot of racists visiting the forum. You know there are allot more closet bigots than you may think. I never realized it till I started playing MMoRPGs (online games like World of Warcraft) or posting to You Tube. But take you tube for example, the amount of times people have called me Nigger on line has no joke got to be a 1000 to one ratio to how many times someone has had the balls to say it to my face.

I think it's just the nature of the spineless, racist peasant. Deep down they know their place in the food chain. Scum, truly dregs.

Genuine question, as I don't play online games, so I don't know: How do they know what colour you are? Do you have a photographic avatar (like here) that one might assume is you, or is there another reason?

Sure, they have gotten VERY advanced these days. The better ones allow you a myriad of customization options everything from skin color to facial pericings Check out the attached pic, you can't see my Avatar clearly in it but check out his face in the upper left hand corner. Then take a look at what is being said in the conversation window. We had just went after a very potent bad guy and he had a weapon myself and another person in the group could both use. We rolled for it (the computer randomly generates a number for the each of us between 1 - 100 the highest number wins) and I won. He becomes belligerent and calls me a "Black Nigger" one of many times..

Having read that comment, I can absolutely see why you get pi$$ed off. How the h3ll do people get attitudes like that? Is there a cyber equivalent of a smack in the mouth, that you can reply with?

Comments like that are sooooooooo fk'ing adolescent you must really just laugh, no? I'm not giving out advice at all, being a pasty type, but at some point, when some people are just manifest neanderthals, it must be almost funny for you. Is that true, at all?

[November Rain]

Oooh, that's a new one for me. I've never been called a manifest neanderthal, before. I'll make a note of that one for my CV - thanks!

[calibanjr.]

Oooh, that's a new one for me. I've never been called a manifest neanderthal, before. I'll make a note of that one for my CV - thanks!

My bad, I was referring to the original quote from the wombat on that World of Warcraft deal, not you. But you know that doncha? I'm juss a bit slow in the heat, a bit keenyow on the Aircon.

Edited June 15, 2007 by calibanjr.

[dantilley]

search for "Soulrutep" and see how many times I get racists stuff against hurled at me. No biggie though because in real life these folks have the good sense to keep their mouth shut.

I'm just surprised that 40% of folks think calling someone a Paki ,the way it's most commonly used, is cool.

A couple of good posts and particularly your last comment there I really agree with. Thanks for you contributions.