A Sad Story About A Very Elderly, Lonely, Englishman.

[Mobi]

Four years ago I was introduced to an elderly Englishman who had fallen on hard times, but even in his impoverished circumstances, he was able to survive reasonable well, and made several trips a week to some of the cheaper bars, and take advantage of ‘happy hour’ beer prices, and more importantly, rely on a few old friends to buy him a few.

He was a bit of a crusty old bastard, who had no topic of conversation other than how hard done by he was, and how he lost all his money to his ex wife many years ago, and how his UK pension had been frozen more than 20 years ago (which was his sole source of income) and so on. If you tried to change the subject, he would quickly bring it back to his own misfortunes. He swore he would never return to England, he lived in a small 2 bed apartment in Prakanong, and managed to survive by using the buses, and for the most part, buying fresh food from the market and cooking himself. Being with him was ‘hard going’ but a few did their bit to help.

Fast forward 4 years.

He is now 80, very frail and semi-crippled following a road accident, is now unable to use the buses and is more bitter and twisted than ever. I ran across him in central Bangkok, on one of his rare forays from home, and got him nice and pissed. It seems that he is now totally friendless, as he has lost such friends that he had, by asserting that no-one helped him when he had his accident, and when he meets any of them on one of his rare afternoons out, they never offer to help, or put him in a taxi, or offer him a lift etc etc.

He says that the farang community in Thailand is totally heartless, and the Thais are no better. He is desperate for some home help who can take care of his basic needs, and said he can provide room and board plus 7,000 Baht a month for anyone who could take him on. He told me he has tried to put the word out, but there have been no takers.

He certainly appears to be totally alone now, and his future is very bleak. As I said, he is a difficult old bugger, but he still has all his faculties, and he doesn’t deserve to spend his remaining years like this.

Certainly if he was in England, he would be looked after much better – by both the social services – and – even these days, I believe in most areas the neighbours would look out for persons such as he.

Is he right? Is the farang community here heartless and uncaring? Are the Thais equally heartless and uncaring? Many in his neighbourhood are aware of his circumstances and no-one ever offers to help – not even by giving him a lift the main roads when they see him hobbling along with his cane.

But he will never go home. So what is the solution? Is there one?

I don’t know the answers, but his plight bothers me a lot.

He is not a close friend - in fact I have only met him 2 or 3 times, but I would like to do something, if I can.

And on a practical level, does anyone know of anyone – maybe up country – who may be willing to take care of him? If so, please PM me and we can explore it further.

[jdinasia]

Don't YOU have a spare room Mobi?

[bendix]

So he's a miserable old git who has kicked all his friends away with his attitude, and now he's getting frail he wants them all to rally around again?

Sympathy and all that, but if he chooses to live here and forego the state help he'd get in the UK, what is anyone else expected to do about it?

[Prakanong]

I think the numbers of guys in this situation will only increase in the coming decades.

He is probably in the vanguard of guys in this situation - either can not or will not go home and has no support from family or friends far away from home.

I wonder if the British Embassy have any contacts but i would not hold my breath.

8 years ago I knew of an American Dr who used to help guys like this but mainly through catholic church contacts - he will be getting on a bit himself now and will be in his 70's I would guess

[uptou]

imo if he still has his reasoning then he has to admit to hiself that he has to go back to the uk where he will be looked after by the state,& probably quite well on dissabilities.

maybe some people feel comfortable with suffering,because its what they are used to.

Edited June 8, 2007 by uptou

[bendix]

And aren't stories like this perfect illustrations of why it's crazy to come to live here without adequate financial support for the long term.

In the visa section, people are complaining about the financial requirements for retirement and marriage visas increasing.

Well, here's why they are doing it people!

Why farangs chose to live on the poverty line here in Thailand when they could be caught in the social security net back home is completely beyond me.

[Trevor]

Sounds like the kind of English git I leave the UK to avoid!

I could turn his life around with a raw fat diet and testosterone supplementation. But he likely wouldn't eat it, and seems bent on feeling sorry for himself. Try 'buat' in a wat if noone will have you. RIP.

[Prakanong]

Just how straightforward is it to roll up back home in the UK though with no friends or family?

Do you go back to your home town?

Do you go where you last lived?

Is it really that easy that you turn up and they take full care of you?

I honestly do not know the procedure!

[duke69]

with 7000 baht he can travel to Pattaya, book a hotel room with balcony at 15th floor (should be enough) and few beers to get the guts to try to fly

[MiG16]

really people....I just dont get it.....Mobi has given all the facts...negatives included......hes really asking for practical solutions...not your opinions on what the old man should have or should not have done. Im not saying hes a charmer and all, but that doesnt mean anyone that tries to even attempt to help him in any small way should be told off and discouraged.

if YOU dont want to help, then just move on and read and post and debate on the numerous other threads will you....Im sure theres enough to keep you entertained on this board.

Mobi...I dont know anyone at the top of my head.....but can you give more details as to what sort of work this person is required to do? physical fitness I assume so the person can help the old man round the house? walk about etc? cooking, cleaning and other such household chores? and the person would need to speak english?

looking at the amount he is willing to pay....perhaps he can contact one of these agencies that provide nursing/maid help?

once I know some more details I will try to ask some cleaning people in the office if they know someone who might be able to do the work.......

[duke69]

really people....I just dont get it.....Mobi has given all the facts...negatives included......hes really asking for practical solutions...not your opinions on what the old man should have or should not have done. Im not saying hes a charmer and all, but that doesnt mean anyone that tries to even attempt to help him in any small way should be told off and discouraged.

if YOU dont want to help, then just move on and read and post and debate on the numerous other threads will you....Im sure theres enough to keep you entertained on this board.

Mobi...I dont know anyone at the top of my head.....but can you give more details as to what sort of work this person is required to do? physical fitness I assume so the person can help the old man round the house? walk about etc? cooking, cleaning and other such household chores? and the person would need to speak english?

looking at the amount he is willing to pay....perhaps he can contact one of these agencies that provide nursing/maid help?

once I know some more details I will try to ask some cleaning people in the office if they know someone who might be able to do the work.......

Indeed

People here just gave solutions ...... including me.

Perhaps so far in this topic, your reply is the only one to be "no reply".

Solutions?

live like you live today or "Jump" or piss back to UK .....basically this is what the solution will be, not many other solutions

[samran]

MiG16 is spot on.

As for my thoughts...surely the UK is the best place for him now. Or maybe somewhere in the hills of portugal or greece where it is warm and cheap.

I'm assuming given his fiancial capacity that he is probably an overstayer unable to extend his visa. The last thing he wants is to be banged up in the immigration detention centre. The British embassy is the only way to go.

[uptou]

i admire the op worrying about the guy,but to be fair ,how long can the guy expect to last in thailand in an "impoverished" condition.my mother is a social worker in the uk,who is constantly visiting people who have dissabilities or mental issues.

[Ping]

Something in this story doesn't add up... He cooks for himself and has (or used to have) the occasional happy-hour beer plus any he could scrounge. Yet he can afford to provide 'room and board' = additional utilities costs and all meals provided plus B7,000 PCM. Perhaps he is not quite as badly off as the OP thinks? The other thing that crossed my mind was why has UK frozen his pension? Could it be that for 20 years he has been avoiding all things UK for other reasons (need I spell it out)?

[pop_corn]

what about the british embassy?

I know my one at least will not let an old guy in that condition.

is th guy catholic or so? he can also go to the church and ask for help.

umm.. i feel very sorry everytime i read something like that, cuz i will never want my parents to be in a situation like that, broke my heart. BUT, when the beach party is over, and u dont hv money to live, u should know what is next. no?

[MiG16]

Perhaps so far in this topic, your reply is the only one to be "no reply".

Solutions?

live like you live today or "Jump" or piss back to UK .....

I normally refrain from getting into arguments with people on the forum, but I think this has gone too far. to suggest that someone doesnt deserve to live? what gives you that right? it is not your decision, and not even something you should put forward as an option.

its his life.....he can choose to continue to live it...yes even with all his whining that pushed friends away. and so what if hes a grumpy old fellow......what if Mobi is ABLE to find some paid help for the old man........whoever is hired will be making an income.....they can choose if they can put up with the old man.

im quite shocked with the attitude....and really wonder if you would say something like this to someone in real life? anyway dont bother replying to me...Im not interested in hearing any more of your opinion.

at the same time Im surprised and disappointed that the MODs would let a comment like that be made.

offtopic and all...but had to say it.....

I will take up the rest with Mobi in PM.

[bkkmadness]

It is a bit of an odd story, why do pensions get frozen?

He was a bit of a crusty old bastard, who had no topic of conversation other than how hard done by he was, and how he lost all his money to his ex wife many years ago, and how his UK pension had been frozen more than 20 years ago (which was his sole source of income) and so on.

He said he lost all his cash and his sole source of income, so for the last 20 years how has he been making money?

Edited June 8, 2007 by bkkmadness

[Prakanong]

It is a bit of an odd story, why do pensions get frozen?

Not all pensions are index linked or even have yearly increases.

The state pension now gets frozen if you are overseas in certain countries including Thailand.

With his private pension he may have purchased an annuity - the company who provides the pension takes his lump sum and offer to pay him a certain sum for life - worked out according to actuarial tables regading life expectency and roi on the money - he would probably get a better annuity 20 years ago that today with the same amount.

Thats my take on it - someone will know better on the in's and outs.

[A_Traveller]

I'm about to exit, so forgive the cut and run, but I recall that UK pensions have been subject to freezes before. It has nothing to do with the pensioner, but the pension itself. I recall a similar problem in Spain which went {is still going} through the courts with the result that pensioners had their pensions frozen at a set level whilst those in the UK increased.

On the go back to Blighty point, well, I have no family, though some friends {allegedly} and I've no idea how it would work, where would I go, to the area I last lived?

Regards

/edit typo //

Edited June 8, 2007 by A_Traveller

[bendix]

Why don't we have a whip-round and raise money for him? That way he can resume going to the bars, be cantankerous, blame everyone but himself for his plight . . . oh no, wait a minute. That aint gonna work.

Compassion? Yah, that's all very nice MiG. I guess charity starts at home though, and how much compassion should people show for someone who has negligently put himself in this position, and who rails against everyone else.

He's not a child. He knew what he was doing. He made his own choices.

If I choose to live here and decide to quit work, blow my money and booze and women, should I expect compassion from you all when it all turns to custard.

Mobi's OP suggests this guy has fallen on hard times. Not true. He threw himself headfirst into hardtimes.

[ThaiPauly]

I too admire Mob's intentions with this thread. He has a good heart and he has proved this on more than one occassion.

I don't see how he can return to the UK if he has been here so long though, they would just not put him in a flat and give him money (thats what they do in the UK for FOREIGNERS ..not people born there who contributed to society). I wonder how he gets his Visa's sorted out?...I would imagine that immigration know about him...have probably tried to get rid of him but the UK won't accept him.

He maybee the Victor Meldrew of Prakenong , ..but how is he gonna get on if he gets sick.which he is going to isn't he?

I hope there is some kind of solution, I am sure someone ..even maybe a Thai family would be happy to put up with (put up) him for that knd of money...but he would have to keep something back for medical expenses.

Well done Mobi for bringng his plight to our attention

[Gary A]

An emphatic NO! Farangs in Bangkok are NOT heartless. I was involved in a similar situation except that in this case the old fart was an American. The expat community finally got tired of the old fart complaining and quit buying him drinks and helping him get around. A number of different nationalities, mostly Brits and Americans started a fund, contacted his relatives in the US and bought him a ticket home. He was escorted to the airport and put on the plane. He was met by his relatives and now they have to put up with him. No one was forced to contribute but most did and the surplus was given to him in US dollars so he wouldn't be totally broke when he landed. The last we heard he is doing as well as could be expected.

[bendix]

I'll chuck in a thousand to kick it off.

[MiG16]

bendix....if u read.....Mobi wasnt asking anyone to contribute money....the old man is even offering to pay for the service of someone who will WORK FOR HIM.

like I said.....do we really need to sit here and debate about where or how he did or didnt go wrong in his life?

and again as i said...if any of you DONT want to help....Im sure no one is going to hold if against you either...I know i certainly wont. I personally am not always full of compassion all the time...and even in this case still dont know if i can help or not....but i think the way i see it is..if you want to try to help then go ahead and do it....and if you DONT want to help..thats also fine...but why make a big noise and point accusing fingers at the guy?

i assume people should have enough to do with their own lives than to make comments on things they dont care about?

[ThaiPauly]

I'll chuck in a thousand to kick it off.

Mobi...if you could organise what Gary A suggested I will put in a thousand as well...if he has anyone back home that would take the poor old sod

[Mobi]

It is a bit of an odd story, why do pensions get frozen?

He was a bit of a crusty old bastard, who had no topic of conversation other than how hard done by he was, and how he lost all his money to his ex wife many years ago, and how his UK pension had been frozen more than 20 years ago (which was his sole source of income) and so on.

He said he lost all his cash and his sole source of income, so for the last 20 years how has he been making money?

Just to clarify a few points

His sole source of income is his UK pension.

His UK pension was frozen, actually 25 years ago - because if you live in certain overseas territories - and Thailand is one - your pension is frozen at the rate it was paid when you took up residence in that country. This applies to anyone who receives a UK State pension and lives in Thailand - and in many other countries come to that.

So the man is receiving a pension at the rate set in 1982.

Even at that rate, he has sufficient income to cover his rent, basic food, and says he can afford to pay 7,000 for a maid. I know he has no other income, but I didn't do an audit of his finances , so I can't say more than that.

He was a merchant seaman and has spent all his adult life overseas. Whatever savings he had are long gone, but I do know he had a horrendous divorce settlement yonks ago. He has no family in England, and nowhere that he could call home.

He does speak some Thai, and I think he could get by with a non-English speaking maid. The duties as enumerated by Mig16 are about right.

Yes, it's so easy to condemn someone who may not have had the opportunities that many of you may have had, and who's life hasn't gone quite the way he hoped. And then increasing old age and infirmity has brought on depressive tendencies that render him a difficult person to be with and to help.

[uptou]

..but how is he gonna get on if he gets sick.which he is going to isn't he?

i think this is the main point.i wouldnt want to be an 80 year old cripple,p!ssing & sh!tting myself,relying on help from other people,in a foreign country whose state only takes care of its own if they have the cash.unhappy old people have a habit of deteriating quite rapidly.

[ColPyat]

Perhaps so far in this topic, your reply is the only one to be "no reply".

Solutions?

live like you live today or "Jump" or piss back to UK .....

I normally refrain from getting into arguments with people on the forum, but I think this has gone too far. to suggest that someone doesnt deserve to live? what gives you that right? it is not your decision, and not even something you should put forward as an option.

Very much agree with you here, some comments here are a disgrace.

They somewhat prove the point here that society here is harsh. Could i take care of the man?

No way, i got more than enough headaches that one day i won't end up like the poor bloke myself. The Land of Smile is only nice as long as one can take care of oneself, or has relatives who can do that. No social security net worth mentioning to fall back to, especially not for impoverished foreigners. And embassies are mostly overwhelmed with such complicated cases. They are bound to certain rules, and cases like the old man break all those rules. And there are far too many of those cases.

A parallel net to take care of such cases is just in its infancy, as foreign embassies have only recently realized that there is a problem.

Edited June 8, 2007 by ColPyat

[Prakanong]

It can not be the UK state pension as his sole income though - its not much now and frozen in 82 it would have been about 35 quid a week would it not?

Anyway that has nothing to do with the story really

[richard10365]

In BKK....7000 baht is a good paycheck for some. Especially when you don't need to pay rent. I think if you put up a sign on a bullitian board somewhere in the area where he lives you are likely to find someone who will take the job. I know a lot of people in BKK live on a lot less. It's auctually a pretty good job offer.