10,000 Anti-coup Demonstrators Expected At Sanam Luang Rally

[hammered]

Thaksin's legacy is that he damaged the infrastructure of the '97 charter, the operation of a democracy within Thailand {checks, balances, and accountability}, and despite his protestations did little to advance the case of the poor within the country as a whole.

Regards

A recent Daniel Ten Kate Asia Sentinel piece points out the fallacy in believing Thaksin actually did much for the poor in the long term. It is quite an interesting read. Usually the Thaksinista apologists are rushing to praise Mr. Ten Kate's writings but this time they seem somewhat quiet. I wonder if Mr. Ten Kate now goes on the dont mention list along with Mr. Crispin.

Edited July 8, 2007 by hammered

[Mid]

'Bt200 million to be spent to have draft charter rejected'

Sun, July 8, 2007 : Last updated 19:43 pm

Old power group is preparing to spend Bt200 million to vote down the constitution draft after spending over Bt500 million to create political turmoil with regular street protests, a government public relation spokesman said Sunday.

Aran Wonganant, director of internal public relation centre said after a meeting that the old power groups have been mapping out three prong-strategies to to destroy Thailand.

reconciliation ,

r e c o n c i l a t i o n .............................................

[Jai Dee]

Domestic Public Relations Center : PTV and anti-coup rallies plan to destroy integrity of nation

Domestic Public Relations Center (DPRC) Chairman Aran Wonganat (อรัญ วงศ์อนันต์) said that PTV is trying to resort to the use of foreign press to destroy the reputation and integrity of the country.

Mr Aran further added that PTV and several pro-Thaksin groups have carried out actions to undermine the credibility of Thailand and create disunity amongst the Thai people. He further added that PTV's plan is to resort to international press and give the wrong information to discredit the country Mr Aran said that investigations have depicted PTV and anti-coup rallies have actually cooperated with old power cliques to seek ways to discredit Thailand.

The DPRC said these anti groups have spent atleast 500 million baht in disseminating distorted information about Thailand and its administration to the foreign media.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 09 July 2007

[Mid]

cite

First, the old power finance mobsters to create street protests in Bangkok including northern and northeastern provinces. The lastest scene, one of the protester encroached the Army's headquarters and was arrested.

snip

cite

Tsunami Volunteer Center Founder and Director Sombat Boonngamanong, P’ Nu Ring, also serves as Director of the Mirror Foundation, an NGO in

snip

[Jai Dee]

Former MPs in Chiang Mai requested to stay away from demonstration

The Military Circle 33rd in Chiang Mai province requests former members of the parliament (MPs) in Chiang Mai and Lamphun to not draw local people to join a demonstration against the government and the Council for National Security (CNS).

Deputy Commander of the Military Circle 33rd Col. Pratinant Saihassadee (ประตินันท์ สายหัสดี) says he has called on the ex-MPs to avoid inviting the people to participate in the demonstration which is scheduled to take place in Lamphun from July 9th – 11th. The deputy commander says he is afraid that chaos might occur if the people join the demonstration.

Only 5 former MPs in Chiang Mai have attended the meeting called by the Military Circle 33rd on the matter.

Meanwhile, Chiang Mai Ex-MP Suraphon Kiatchaiyakorn (สุรพล เกียรติไชยากร) affirms the former MPs have never arranged activities to stir up the situation and have not been involved in the demonstration.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 09 July 2007

[hammered]

Former MPs in Chiang Mai requested to stay away from demonstration

The Military Circle 33rd in Chiang Mai province requests former members of the parliament (MPs) in Chiang Mai and Lamphun to not draw local people to join a demonstration against the government and the Council for National Security (CNS).

Deputy Commander of the Military Circle 33rd Col. Pratinant Saihassadee (ประตินันท์ สายหัสดี) says he has called on the ex-MPs to avoid inviting the people to participate in the demonstration which is scheduled to take place in Lamphun from July 9th – 11th. The deputy commander says he is afraid that chaos might occur if the people join the demonstration.

Only 5 former MPs in Chiang Mai have attended the meeting called by the Military Circle 33rd on the matter.

Meanwhile, Chiang Mai Ex-MP Suraphon Kiatchaiyakorn (สุรพล เกียรติไชยากร) affirms the former MPs have never arranged activities to stir up the situation and have not been involved in the demonstration.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 09 July 2007

From what I have heard from relatives in the north, ex-TRT functionaries have been trying to encourage people in some areas to attend demos and there has been some vote no stuff started in ceratin places. However, even with money handed out the success of this to date has been very patchy. Some wont even take the relatively small amounts offered. At the moment from what I hear in the north for any group to assume a monopoly of the people would be wrong.

[Mid]

Military Release the Anti-Coup leader After Condemnation from Civic Groups

Prachatai

09 July 2007

(ที่มาของภาพ : สำนักข่าวชาวบ้าน)

snip

Mr. Sombat, the founder and the director of the Mirror Group Foundation, an organisation working to end human trafficking, has been critical of the military coup since 19 September 2006. He was the former coordinator with the 19 September Network against the Coup before he co-found the Thai Say No Group. This news compilation wishes to serve as the chronological events and updates on the arrest of Mr. Sombat on the night of the 6 July to the release on the 7 July. Mr. Sombat is the first ant-coup key figure that had been arrested by the military government.

snip

Translated and compiled by Pokpong Lawansiri

Prachatai.com

more photo's and the full article here

original in Thai here

all are equal , some more so than others .............................................

[Maxi101]

May I ask a bit humble if somebody can clarify the terms:

Old Power

New Power

I usually understand the oldest power being the monarchy.

Sorry to ask, but being confused

[hammered]

May I ask a bit humble if somebody can clarify the terms:

Old Power

New Power

I usually understand the oldest power being the monarchy.

Sorry to ask, but being confused

Old Power is generally used to refer to the Thaksinistas right now. Some would argue that they should actually be labelled new power but the reality is that the old power label has stuck to them now.

[Maxi101]

Thank you very much for the explanation, I thought at least that the old power are the handfull of rich and richest families.

[younghusband]

Thaksin's legacy is that he damaged the infrastructure of the '97 charter, the operation of a democracy within Thailand {checks, balances, and accountability}, and despite his protestations did little to advance the case of the poor within the country as a whole.

Regards

A recent Daniel Ten Kate Asia Sentinel piece points out the fallacy in believing Thaksin actually did much for the poor in the long term. It is quite an interesting read. Usually the Thaksinista apologists are rushing to praise Mr. Ten Kate's writings but this time they seem somewhat quiet. I wonder if Mr. Ten Kate now goes on the dont mention list along with Mr. Crispin.

I notice that, along with giving a completely incorrect summary of Daniel Ten Kate's article, you also fail to provide the link which would enable readers to make up their own minds.Is this I wonder because the article in question raises awkward issues -not least that Thaksin's pro-poor policies were quite effective- which undermine your own view of Thai politics? Actually both Ten Kate and Crispin are independent minded commentators who are always worth reading.I would put in a plea not to persist in portraying the current complexities in demonising one man, but I don't supose it would make much difference.

[younghusband]

Thank you very much for the explanation, I thought at least that the old power are the handfull of rich and richest families.

Actually you are broadly correct.Hammered can define "old power" anyway he likes, but the conventional interpretation is that it represents a group of feudal,military and business connections that was threatened by a nouveaux riche ethnically Chinese tycoon moving in on their longstanding monopolies and vested interests.

[hammered]

Thank you very much for the explanation, I thought at least that the old power are the handfull of rich and richest families.

Actually you are broadly correct.Hammered can define "old power" anyway he likes, but the conventional interpretation is that it represents a group of feudal,military and business connections that was threatened by a nouveaux riche ethnically Chinese tycoon moving in on their longstanding monopolies and vested interests.

I was referring to its common use in the Thai media which is in relation to the Thaksin regime and which would seem to answer the question posed. I was not trying to make any politcal point on this.

[hammered]

Thaksin's legacy is that he damaged the infrastructure of the '97 charter, the operation of a democracy within Thailand {checks, balances, and accountability}, and despite his protestations did little to advance the case of the poor within the country as a whole.

Regards

A recent Daniel Ten Kate Asia Sentinel piece points out the fallacy in believing Thaksin actually did much for the poor in the long term. It is quite an interesting read. Usually the Thaksinista apologists are rushing to praise Mr. Ten Kate's writings but this time they seem somewhat quiet. I wonder if Mr. Ten Kate now goes on the dont mention list along with Mr. Crispin.

I notice that, along with giving a completely incorrect summary of Daniel Ten Kate's article, you also fail to provide the link which would enable readers to make up their own minds.Is this I wonder because the article in question raises awkward issues -not least that Thaksin's pro-poor policies were quite effective- which undermine your own view of Thai politics? Actually both Ten Kate and Crispin are independent minded commentators who are always worth reading.I would put in a plea not to persist in portraying the current complexities in demonising one man, but I don't supose it would make much difference.

Obviously we read the article in a different way. By the way apologies for omitting the link. Now below. Here are few quotes relting to what is a mixed judgement on the Thaksin polices. He did encourage good growth which of course trickles down in theory but the populist polices still seem to me to be criticised for the inefficeint implementation with as I remarked before not much done in the long term and that is without really getting into the touched on unsustainability of the polices and how that could have affected future budgets to the detriment of all.

Indeed, the problem most academics had with the programs was the implementation. Instead of leading to increased efficiency and sustainable growth, much of the money was spent on consumer goods that ended up boosting household debt.

“We have to give credit to Thaksin’s policy because it inserted a lot of money into low-income farmers and workers, which reduced poverty,” said Somchai Jitsuchon, research director at TDRI who now serves as an advisor to the Finance Ministry. “But it was just temporary. The money just went from hand to hand without increasing the potential for production or income earning.”

Thaksin certainly spent a lot of cash on anti-poverty programs, boosting total expenditure to 2.3 percent of GDP in 2002 from a mere 0.74 percent in 1999, according to a 2005 World Bank study on the Northeast. But most of that money never made its way to the poor. The study found that nearly 90 percent of beneficiaries of both the debt moratorium and the revolving village fund were non-poor households.

“Many of these programs have low levels of coverage and high leakages of benefits to the non-poor as they cover large populations,” the study said. “Improved targeting by defining better criteria for allocating resources will be essential to reduce the population of poor people.”

The evidence on Thaksin’s economic management is mixed. His external policies helped boost exports, the main driver of economic growth, which helped reduce poverty. But his domestic stimulus measures were inefficient at targeting the poor and ultimately unsustainable.

Full article at: http://www.asiasentinel.com/index.php?opti...3&Itemid=31

Edited July 9, 2007 by hammered

[Jai Dee]

More than 2000 Nakhon Si Thammarat residents gather to show opposition to Sanam Luang demonstrators

Residents of Nakhon Si Thammarat province gathered today (July 9) to show their support for the Chief Privy Councilor.

More than 2000 residents of Nakhon Si Thammarat gathered at the Nakhon Si Thammarat provincial hall today (July 9) in order to show their support for Chief Privy Councilor and Statesman Gen Prem Tinsulanonda. Citizens called on opposition groups of the government and the Council for National Security to cease their actions and to refrain from conducting verbal attacks on Gen Prem. Former Nakhon Si Thammarat Senator Pichai Boonyakiet (พิชัย บุญยเกียรติ) was present among the crowd and also expressed his opposition to Sanam Luang demonstrators.

Senator Pichai called on demonstration groups to apologize to the Chief Privy Councilor, and revealed that Nakhon Si Thammarat residents will gather again if Sanam Luang demonstrators do not disperse. Nakhon Si Thammarat residents also presented a letter to Deputy Nakhon Si Thammarat Governor Somsak Khamthaweephrom (สมศักดิ์ ขำทวีพรหม) to express their support for the goverment.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 09 July 2007

[Siripon]

The million baht village fund was mainly distributed to those who had relatives on the village committee distributing the fund, and even when it reached others loans were often so small, 5,000 or 10,000 baht that the most it could do was pay for a mobile phone or downpayment on a motorcycle.

I know the colonel claims the 30 baht hospital scheme helped save many of those with Aids but villagers I know shun the scheme calling it 30 baht paracetomal, why didn't Thaksin's Health Ministers try to bring down the price of Aids drugs like the present incumbent Dr Mongkol is doing?

Trying to control the motorcycle taxi mafias, run by the police and army was one good thing Thaksin did for the poor.

[LaoPo]

'Old powers in bid to ruin Thailand'

The old power groups are preparing to spend Bt200 million to vote down the constitution draft after spending more than Bt500 million to create political turmoil with regular street protests, a government public relations spokesman said yesterday.

Aran Wonganant, director of the internal public relations centre, said the groups had been carrying out a three-pronged strategy to destroy Thailand.

First, they financed mobsters to create street protests in Bangkok and northern and northeastern provinces. In a recent incident, one protester encroached on the Army's headquarters and was arrested.

Second, they tried to destroy the business climate by disseminating distorted news via the Internet and foreign media that the country was under tightened military rule.

Third, they hired foreign lobbyists to present news and launch campaigns against Thailand, such as accusing the government of politically harassing deposed prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra by freezing his assets. Aran said the purpose was to create misunderstanding in other countries so that they would boycott Thailand.

Recently, the old power groups, including PTV and Thaksin's supporters, invited foreign diplomats to a meeting and told them that at least two diplomats would submit a letter in protest at the military-installed government, he claimed.

Aran said the centre had been tipped off that the groups spent more than Bt500 million on these actions and would spend another Bt200 million to block the passage of the new constitution by giving Bt500 to each person campaigning against the charter.

Samatcha Hoonsara

The Nation

Good PR from the Government....or not ?

LaoPo

[Mid]

Deposed Thai PM says people miss him

Last Updated 09/07/2007, 18:48:06

The deposed Thai prime minister, Thaksin Shinawatra, claims Thais still miss him and his anti-poverty policies.

The military ousted Mr Thaksin in a bloodless coup last September and has repeatedly warned Thailand's media not to report on the fallen prime minister.

But the English-language Bangkok Post and its Thai-language sister paper Post Today has run a lengthy interview with the billionaire conducted in Hong Kong where he was travelling at the weekend.

Mr Thaksin says he believes Thai people still miss him, despite a slate of corruption charges against him brought by the military-installed authorities.

The ousted prime minister pointed to his universal health scheme and debt relief for poor farmers as reasons that he believes he remains popular among Thais.

radioaustralia.net.au

[Jai Dee]

Authorities believe Sanam Luang demonstrators will attempt to provoke police into using violence

Authorities believe that Sanam Luang demonstrators will attempt to provoke law enforcement officers into using violence.

Metropolitan Police Commissioner Pol Lt Gen Adisorn Nonsri (อดิศร นนทรีย) commented on demonstration situations in Sanam Luang and reported that demonstrators will be conducting rallies in several areas of the city this week. Police officers have been deployed accordingly. Pol Lt Gen Adisorn expressed his belief that demonstrators will be altering their tactics by placing greater emphasis on provoking law enforcement officers and other authority figures in order to create violent situations.

The Metropolitan Police Commissioner asked demonstrators to seek more democratic and more peaceful methods of voicing their opinions.

Pol Lt Gen Adisorn also reported that authorities will be prosecuting Mr. Suchat Makbangtrai (สุชาติ มากบางไทร ), a member of Sanam Luang demonstrators who attempted to drive into the Royal Thai Army headquarters on Saturday July 7th. Police officers will be charging Mr. Suchat with several traffic violations as well as trespassing.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 09 July 2007

[hammered]

The million baht village fund was mainly distributed to those who had relatives on the village committee distributing the fund, and even when it reached others loans were often so small, 5,000 or 10,000 baht that the most it could do was pay for a mobile phone or downpayment on a motorcycle.

I know the colonel claims the 30 baht hospital scheme helped save many of those with Aids but villagers I know shun the scheme calling it 30 baht paracetomal, why didn't Thaksin's Health Ministers try to bring down the price of Aids drugs like the present incumbent Dr Mongkol is doing?

Trying to control the motorcycle taxi mafias, run by the police and army was one good thing Thaksin did for the poor.

In the villages I know up cuntry there is a kind of code when using the 30 baht scheme which consists of asking if there is anything extra and optional that could be done or prescribed if one were to pay a little more money after the 30 baht paracetemol deal is done.

Agree about the motorcycle taxi mafia.

[hammered]

Shawn Crispin has a new piece up at A-Times

From political darkness, economic optimism: http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/IG07Ae01.html

It looks at ecnomic growth through the 2000s. Why it happened and why it remains strong and challenges a few claims and myths. I wont say mopre than that incase I upset the Thaksin apologists. Anyway worth read.

I put it here as it seems to fit with some other stuff being debated.

[younghusband]

Shawn Crispin has a new piece up at A-Times

From political darkness, economic optimism: http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/IG07Ae01.html

It looks at ecnomic growth through the 2000s. Why it happened and why it remains strong and challenges a few claims and myths. I wont say mopre than that incase I upset the Thaksin apologists. Anyway worth read.

I put it here as it seems to fit with some other stuff being debated.

You keep on referring to the Thaksin apologists.No doubt there are some out there but there is no evidence of their presence on this forum.You are therefore like some latter day Don Quixote tilting at windmills.Surely you can understand it is possible to detest the junta without being a fan of Thaksin.It's interesting by the way that Shawn Crispin correctly picks up on the corruption and secretive practices of the junta, fully following in the steps of Thaksin.

[sriracha john]

Shawn Crispin has a new piece up at A-Times

From political darkness, economic optimism: http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/IG07Ae01.html

It looks at ecnomic growth through the 2000s. Why it happened and why it remains strong and challenges a few claims and myths. I wont say mopre than that incase I upset the Thaksin apologists. Anyway worth read.

I put it here as it seems to fit with some other stuff being debated.

You keep on referring to the Thaksin apologists.No doubt there are some out there but there is no evidence of their presence on this forum.

thanks for the laugh....

[thedude]

i wouldn't call 16 million voters "apologists". what is there to apologise for?

what about all the junta apologists on the board who have to rely on local newspapers to give them opinions?

[hammered]

i wouldn't call 16 million voters "apologists". what is there to apologise for?

what about all the junta apologists on the board who have to rely on local newspapers to give them opinions?

Ermm. Take a read of the Amnesty International and Human Rights watch stuff on Mr. Thaksin. Then there are a few corruption cases and then there is.... But we are all entitled to our opinions which actually most are quite capable of forming.

What has it got to do with 16 million voters who voted in a now cancelled election? This is about crimes and misdemeanours. these things are dealt with by the judicial branch and not by a popular vote. Thailand still has a few problems following a judicial decision made in 2001 to take into account election numbers rather than law.

[younghusband]

Shawn Crispin has a new piece up at A-Times

From political darkness, economic optimism: http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/IG07Ae01.html

It looks at ecnomic growth through the 2000s. Why it happened and why it remains strong and challenges a few claims and myths. I wont say mopre than that incase I upset the Thaksin apologists. Anyway worth read.

I put it here as it seems to fit with some other stuff being debated.

You keep on referring to the Thaksin apologists.No doubt there are some out there but there is no evidence of their presence on this forum.

thanks for the laugh....

Laugh away but most members can see the situation for themselves.

[blaze]

May I ask a bit humble if somebody can clarify the terms:

Old Power

New Power

I usually understand the oldest power being the monarchy.

Sorry to ask, but being confused

Old Power is generally used to refer to the Thaksinistas right now. Some would argue that they should actually be labelled new power but the reality is that the old power label has stuck to them now.

By applying the term 'old power' (also referred to as 'old clique') to the previous regime, its enemies are able to subtely imply that all the failings of Thai society in modern history can be blamed on that (actually, relatively new) regime. Newspeak at its finest- and rarely questioned.

[younghusband]

i wouldn't call 16 million voters "apologists". what is there to apologise for?

what about all the junta apologists on the board who have to rely on local newspapers to give them opinions?

Ermm. Take a read of the Amnesty International and Human Rights watch stuff on Mr. Thaksin. Then there are a few corruption cases and then there is.... But we are all entitled to our opinions which actually most are quite capable of forming.

What has it got to do with 16 million voters who voted in a now cancelled election? This is about crimes and misdemeanours. these things are dealt with by the judicial branch and not by a popular vote. Thailand still has a few problems following a judicial decision made in 2001 to take into account election numbers rather than law.

Amnesty International's report on the Thaksin human rights abuses is rightly scathing, specifically the drug war murders but also the military crimes in the South.But from the junta there is nothing on these abuses, and certainly no intention of pinning them on Thaksin.Ever wonder why? Could it be that these policies had the support of most Thais from the very top of the pyramid downwards.Doesn't make these offences right but let's not pretend that the power elite's pursuit of Thaksin has anything to do with justice, let alone morality.

[Mid]

same , same , but different ............................

[Tony Clifton]

i wouldn't call 16 million voters "apologists". what is there to apologise for?

what about all the junta apologists on the board who have to rely on local newspapers to give them opinions?

Ermm. Take a read of the Amnesty International and Human Rights watch stuff on Mr. Thaksin. Then there are a few corruption cases and then there is.... But we are all entitled to our opinions which actually most are quite capable of forming.

What has it got to do with 16 million voters who voted in a now cancelled election? This is about crimes and misdemeanours. these things are dealt with by the judicial branch and not by a popular vote. Thailand still has a few problems following a judicial decision made in 2001 to take into account election numbers rather than law.

Amnesty International's report on the Thaksin human rights abuses is rightly scathing, specifically the drug war murders but also the military crimes in the South.But from the junta there is nothing on these abuses, and certainly no intention of pinning them on Thaksin.Ever wonder why? Could it be that these policies had the support of most Thais from the very top of the pyramid downwards.Doesn't make these offences right but let's not pretend that the power elite's pursuit of Thaksin has anything to do with justice, let alone morality.

These murderous policies had the support of most Thais, or, were feared to death by most Thais? Looking at how many innocent ones were added to the death lists to settle old scores, children shot along with parents, who in his right mind would want to oppose Thaksin's dirty drug war and join Somchai the lawyer only to never be seen alive again?

I still remember Thais talking very softly when only criticizing Thaksin or TRT two years ago.

Edited July 9, 2007 by Tony Clifton