10,000 Anti-coup Demonstrators Expected At Sanam Luang Rally

[endure]

Isn't this the place where a moderator usually comes in and starts deleting derogatory and inflammatory name-calling posts?

No, it's the place where a moderator moans in quiet desperation and wonders why allegedly grown men can't disagree with each other without resorting to the antics of the schoolyard.

[chuchok]

Isn't this the place where a moderator usually comes in and starts deleting derogatory and inflammatory name-calling posts?

Doesn't seem too bad to me.Is it because some posters disagree with your own point of view?

[sriracha john]

a few people that have inspired suicidal followers...

Jim Jones, Joseph Di Mambro, Thaksin Shinawatra, Marshall Applewhite, Luc Jouret

[Johpa]

Do you refuse to see the similarities between Hitler rising to power on post WWI nationalist feelings and Thaksin coming on the back of economic crisis?

I guess one can find some superficial similarities between Thaksin and Hitler, but then one can usually find such similarities between any two nationalistic leaders. I am more concerned about a future Thaksin who will look for scapegoats amongst the outsiders, that being the Farangs. Think how easy it would be to divert attention towards that particular group: too much money, too few morals, too many brides who are either over-the-hill hookers or trophy brides. I mean the pink skins actually are not ashamed to be seen in public with those dark skinned Isaan women. The Bangkok elite is already trying to marginalize the rural poor so why not take out two birds with one stone and cast the pink skins into the mix and try to get the rural poor to misguide their frustrations on the shared outsiders.

Throw the Farangs into the well. Very Niiize!

[sriracha john]

The fallout from some of the lunatics supporting Thaksin...

Security tightened for members of ASC

Steps are being taken to ensure the safety of members of the Assets Scrutiny Committee (ASC) following their decision on Monday to freeze the assets of ousted prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra and his family. Security has been tightened amid fears that the 11 members could be in danger of assault by furious supporters of Mr Thaksin. Pol Lt Wutthikrai Jaturongseri, of the Metropolitan Police Bureau, was ordered by city police chief Adisorn Nonsi to ask for the home addresses of the ASC members, so that guards could be assigned to them. The security shield will comprise police provided by acting national police chief Seripisuth Temiyavej, the Metropolitan Police Bureau and Bang Sue police station. The ASC office is within the jurisdiction of Bang Sue police.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/News/13Jun2007_news03.php

[lukamar]

a few people that have inspired suicidal followers...

Forgot one.....

sriracha john

Edited June 13, 2007 by lukamar

[sriracha john]

Anti-CNS protesters make strange bedfellows

For months, we have seen several rounds of protests at Sanam Luang by Thaksin supporters who rallied against a government ban of a satellite television station known as People's Television, or PTV, under veteran politician Veera Musikapong, et al. Now the grievances about the PTV ban have disappeared from the protests, leaving only messages hoping for Thaksin's return. Sharing the path inadvertently with the pro-Thaksin people is a group of democracy advocates, whose strenuous fight against the CNS has made Mr Thaksin look like a ''democracy hero'' _ something the big boss of the defunct Thai Rak Thai party has never resembled. Certain figures in the group, now known as the Democratic Alliance Against Dictatorship (DAAD), such as Weng Tojirakarn, came out to deny they were supporting the ousted leader in exile. Unlike anti-Thaksin demonstrations, the protests led by the pro-Thaksin group are characterized by rowdy acts by demonstrators _ several of whom are ill-disciplined and violent. The ugly incidents pose a crucial question, if not a dilemma, for the DAAD people whether they should continue to mingle with those pro-Thaksin mobsters. This definitely does not mean they have to give up their right to protest . In fact, their voices against the CNS are noteworthy but they have to free themselves from naivety and abandon the unbecoming link. Decide now, time is running out.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/News/13Jun2007_news20.php

===================

If you sleep with dogs, you wake up with fleas. Does the justification for not separating themselves lie in the low number of protesters the non-PTV groups would attract?

[sriracha john]

a few people that have inspired suicidal followers...

Forgot one.....

sriracha john

uhmmm...ok, if you say so... but what I would do differently than Thaksin is to categorically denounce any and all of my followers who speak of such nonsense. I would totally distance myself from them and implore them to stop using my name in pursuit of such reckless actions. Instead, I would encourage them to seek psychiatric treatment to aid in their recovery from such delusional beliefs.

.... but then, I'm not tied up in trying to defend my ill-gotten gains.

[Plus]

Do you refuse to see the similarities between Hitler rising to power on post WWI nationalist feelings and Thaksin coming on the back of economic crisis?

I guess one can find some superficial similarities between Thaksin and Hitler, but then one can usually find such similarities between any two nationalistic leaders.

If you care to click back a couple of pages, that's where it started - there aren't that many dictatorships around with recongisable names, so people opt for Hitler first.

And similarities ARE there, people just blindly refuse to acknowledge them.

"Thaksin never was in almost absolute control..." - revisionism with absolutely no background in any shade of reality.

[younghusband]

Your comparison of the background to Hitler's and Thaksin's rise simply confirms my view you are talking pure bunkum.I really think you have taken leave of your senses or are profoundly ignorant of history.I incidentally love the sheer lunacy that "both have benefited their people economically", the silliness of which made me laugh out loud.If you really want to understand Hitler's rise to power -your brief references are just plain wrong- read Ian Kershaw's two volume masterpiece Hubris and Nemesis (but of course you won't.)

As to Mahathir and Lee Kwan Yew, yes both have skeletons in their cupboard.Ask any educated Malaysian or Singaporean.

"Hitler oversaw one of the greatest expansions of industrial production and civil improvement Germany had ever seen..."

"Hitler also oversaw one of the largest infrastructure-improvement campaigns in German history, with the construction of dozens of dams, autobahns, railroads, and other civil works...."

"In January 1933, when Hitler became Reich Chancellor, there were six million unemployed in Germany. A mere three years later, in 1936, there was full employment. Crying need and mass hardship had generally turned into modest but comfortable prosperity..."

Silly quotes, I guess...

If Kershaw argues against this "economic miracle" and Hitler's involvement with economy at all, it only underlines the similarities - there are plenty of critics of Thaksin's economic success, too.

>>>>

Unusual amount of abuse today, huh? Organ grinder, monkey, silliness, lunacy, illiteracy - what next? Maybe an argument worth considering, for a change?

I'm sorry if the banter got out of hand but preposterous posts need to be dealt with robustly.Of course it is the case that the German economy prospered under Hitler's early chancellorship but surely you can understand that Thailand's economic growth (actually mainly the result of prime pumping) under Thaksin does not mean the latter shared Hitler's characteristics.You may as well add any leader who has presided over economic growth to the mix.Time to move back to the topic?

[Plus]

Add as well nationalistic traits - struggle for new, post-war/post-crisis Germany/Thailand.

Add as well ideological similarities (acknowledged by Colpyat).

Add as well violent militias, which Colpyat also mentioned. Though he was talking about times long past, we've seen Thaksin's own "support" groups in action on few occasions, plus forest rangers trained by Youngyuth.

Add the fact that both were not pure blood German/Thai, and Hitler is suspected of being a quarter Jew.

>>>>>

All of that for similarities, nothing for fundamental differences so far (apart from the scale of violence).

We are talking about public political image, not Thaksin's hidden agenda to enrich himself while playing popular leader for the masses. I remember someone actually stressed that at least Hitler did what he did for the benefit of his nation (or so he thought), Thaksin did it all for himself.

There are boundaries for any analogy, and any analogy works within its boundaries, and is useful only within these boundaries - i.e. you can draw lessons or make projections only within boundaries.

This is all I will say on this subject. Robust abuse masqaraded as response is of no interest to me.

Back to the thread, please.

[younghusband]

Add as well nationalistic traits - struggle for new, post-war/post-crisis Germany/Thailand.

Add as well ideological similarities (acknowledged by Colpyat).

Add as well violent militias, which Colpyat also mentioned. Though he was talking about times long past, we've seen Thaksin's own "support" groups in action on few occasions, plus forest rangers trained by Youngyuth.

Add the fact that both were not pure blood German/Thai, and Hitler is suspected of being a quarter Jew.

>>>>>

All of that for similarities, nothing for fundamental differences so far (apart from the scale of violence).

We are talking about public political image, not Thaksin's hidden agenda to enrich himself while playing popular leader for the masses. I remember someone actually stressed that at least Hitler did what he did for the benefit of his nation (or so he thought), Thaksin did it all for himself.

There are boundaries for any analogy, and any analogy works within its boundaries, and is useful only within these boundaries - i.e. you can draw lessons or make projections only within boundaries.

This is all I will say on this subject. Robust abuse masqaraded as response is of no interest to me.

Back to the thread, please.

So an additional Thaksin problem is that he isn't "pure Thai".I don't know what "pure Thai" means but whatever criteria you might apply it would probably exclude some very very eminent figures.You couldn't make this stuff up, and your reference to Hitler's "partly Jewish" ancestry simply underlines your ignorance.

[thedude]

As to Mahathir and Lee Kwan Yew, yes both have skeletons in their cupboard.Ask any educated Malaysian or Singaporean.

ummmm didn't he ask you?

for one, both gentlemen actively funded and supplied arms to the Khmer Rouge, thus having a direct hand in one of the most extensive genocides in modern history numbering millions. of course, all this is forgotten now as both are portrayed as protectors of what was then a final capitalist frontier in s.e. asia, and the emergent economic success which they each engendered help ensure that it will remain but a footnote in their histories. one could argue that the peaceful and uninterrupted growth enjoyed in singapore and malaysia during those decades was no accident, and they had to do the necessary to keep the barbarians at the door in order to grow. was this worth millions of lives? again, history gets written by the winners.

[A_Traveller]

As to Mahathir and Lee Kwan Yew, yes both have skeletons in their cupboard.Ask any educated Malaysian or Singaporean.

ummmm didn't he ask you?

for one, both gentlemen actively funded and supplied arms to the Khmer Rouge, thus having a direct hand in one of the most extensive genocides in modern history numbering millions. <snip>

Some evidence to support this assertion would be interesting.

The present consensus is that China was the only country that gave direct aid to the Khmer Rouge in the form of cash and weapons.

Lee himself publicly asserts that some 1.3 billion was spent supporting rebel groups fighting Vietnamese and allied Cambodian forces after Hanoi's invasion of Cambodia, which toppled the Khmer Rouge regime in 1979.

He has further claimed that a Thai-Malaysian-Singaporean-US group, meeting in Bangkok coordinated US$55 million from Singapore, Malaysia about US$10 million and Thailand a few million, [Thailand has consistently denied this] in training, food and ammunition funnelled to the insurgents. This operation was however, dwarfed by China who spent some US$100 million on the non-communist forces and Lee claims some 10 times that amount on the Khmer Rouge.

Regards

[ColPyat]

Add as well nationalistic traits - struggle for new, post-war/post-crisis Germany/Thailand.

Add as well ideological similarities (acknowledged by Colpyat).

Add as well violent militias, which Colpyat also mentioned. Though he was talking about times long past, we've seen Thaksin's own "support" groups in action on few occasions, plus forest rangers trained by Youngyuth.

Add the fact that both were not pure blood German/Thai, and Hitler is suspected of being a quarter Jew.

>>>>>

All of that for similarities, nothing for fundamental differences so far (apart from the scale of violence).

We are talking about public political image, not Thaksin's hidden agenda to enrich himself while playing popular leader for the masses. I remember someone actually stressed that at least Hitler did what he did for the benefit of his nation (or so he thought), Thaksin did it all for himself.

There are boundaries for any analogy, and any analogy works within its boundaries, and is useful only within these boundaries - i.e. you can draw lessons or make projections only within boundaries.

This is all I will say on this subject. Robust abuse masqaraded as response is of no interest to me.

Back to the thread, please.

You are stretching it. No fundamental differences between Hitler and Thaksin?

Lets start about an ideology based on racial superiority by the Nazis, and no recognizable ideology by Thaksin, especially nothing about racial superiority (some of his erstwhile right wing supporters, later opponents though had a few issues with that, people such as Pramuan Rujanaseri)?

What about the fact that as soon as Hitler came to power he dissolved parliament, and sent political opponents to the concentration camps, and Thaksin never did anything like that?

What about Hitlers base politics of territorial expansionism, none of that by Thaksin?

etc.

It has been sufficiently disproved hat Hitler was partly Jewish, and is just fashionable under conspiracy theory buffs. Not even worthy of discussion. Read the books that Younghusband has recommended you to read.

Again, if you quote my posts, then please quote me correctly. I mentioned the Militias and Paramilitary organisations. But i have not talked about the past only, i have mentioned that they are very present in today's Thailand. And that they have very little to do with Thaksin.

The forest ranger conspiracy theory has never been supported by any evidence, and is just rumor. Of course forest rangers need to be armed - their job is extremely dangerous as they have to fight armed poachers and illegal loggers, and in the border lands do encounter armed drug smugglers. But them descending on Bangkok with their few rifles is lunacy and not logic, given they heavy concentration of far better armed military and police.

Yes, please don't say anything more about this subject. You give me a headache.

[hammered]

But while we discuss a buch of other world leaders lets not forget Mr. Thaksin's death toll which stands at at least 2500 and this has been reported the world over by international media and human rights groups. It doesnt actually matter what other world leaders have done in a final analysis, and there is no justification for it. I am sure we can all agree on that as we no doubt do not approve of extra judicial killings.

Can we now move back to the subject of the thread.

[ColPyat]

As to Mahathir and Lee Kwan Yew, yes both have skeletons in their cupboard.Ask any educated Malaysian or Singaporean.

ummmm didn't he ask you?

for one, both gentlemen actively funded and supplied arms to the Khmer Rouge, thus having a direct hand in one of the most extensive genocides in modern history numbering millions. <snip>

Some evidence to support this assertion would be interesting.

The present consensus is that China was the only country that gave direct aid to the Khmer Rouge in the form of cash and weapons.

Lee himself publicly asserts that some 1.3 billion was spent supporting rebel groups fighting Vietnamese and allied Cambodian forces after Hanoi's invasion of Cambodia, which toppled the Khmer Rouge regime in 1979.

He has further claimed that a Thai-Malaysian-Singaporean-US group, meeting in Bangkok coordinated US$55 million from Singapore, Malaysia about US$10 million and Thailand a few million, [Thailand has consistently denied this] in training, food and ammunition funnelled to the insurgents. This operation was however, dwarfed by China who spent some US$100 million on the non-communist forces and Lee claims some 10 times that amount on the Khmer Rouge.

Regards

You forget though that after Vietnam ousted the Khmer Rouge both US and the UK have also supported the Khmer Rouge massively, both with money, weapons and training. The British SAS is said not only having been involved in training, but also in active combat.

[jdinasia]

Add as well nationalistic traits - struggle for new, post-war/post-crisis Germany/Thailand.

Add as well ideological similarities (acknowledged by Colpyat).

Add as well violent militias, which Colpyat also mentioned. Though he was talking about times long past, we've seen Thaksin's own "support" groups in action on few occasions, plus forest rangers trained by Youngyuth.

Add the fact that both were not pure blood German/Thai, and Hitler is suspected of being a quarter Jew.

>>>>>

All of that for similarities, nothing for fundamental differences so far (apart from the scale of violence).

We are talking about public political image, not Thaksin's hidden agenda to enrich himself while playing popular leader for the masses. I remember someone actually stressed that at least Hitler did what he did for the benefit of his nation (or so he thought), Thaksin did it all for himself.

There are boundaries for any analogy, and any analogy works within its boundaries, and is useful only within these boundaries - i.e. you can draw lessons or make projections only within boundaries.

This is all I will say on this subject. Robust abuse masqaraded as response is of no interest to me.

Back to the thread, please.

You are stretching it. No fundamental differences between Hitler and Thaksin?

Lets start about an ideology based on racial superiority by the Nazis, and no recognizable ideology by Thaksin, especially nothing about racial superiority (some of his erstwhile right wing supporters, later opponents though had a few issues with that, people such as Pramuan Rujanaseri)?

What about the fact that as soon as Hitler came to power he dissolved parliament, and sent political opponents to the concentration camps, and Thaksin never did anything like that?

What about Hitlers base politics of territorial expansionism, none of that by Thaksin?

etc.

It has been sufficiently disproved hat Hitler was partly Jewish, and is just fashionable under conspiracy theory buffs. Not even worthy of discussion. Read the books that Younghusband has recommended you to read.

Again, if you quote my posts, then please quote me correctly. I mentioned the Militias and Paramilitary organisations. But i have not talked about the past only, i have mentioned that they are very present in today's Thailand. And that they have very little to do with Thaksin.

The forest ranger conspiracy theory has never been supported by any evidence, and is just rumor. Of course forest rangers need to be armed - their job is extremely dangerous as they have to fight armed poachers and illegal loggers, and in the border lands do encounter armed drug smugglers. But them descending on Bangkok with their few rifles is lunacy and not logic, given they heavy concentration of far better armed military and police.

Yes, please don't say anything more about this subject. You give me a headache.

Thaksin never dissolved parlaiment? or Thaksin never sued and sued and sued his opponents ... if only he had had access to a few concentration camps! <though H sending political opponents to camps?????>

again ... as analogy it stands far better than most pushed by Der Fuhrer's buddies in here!`

[jdinasia]

But while we discuss a buch of other world leaders lets not forget Mr. Thaksin's death toll which stands at at least 2500 and this has been reported the world over by international media and human rights groups. It doesnt actually matter what other world leaders have done in a final analysis, and there is no justification for it. I am sure we can all agree on that as we no doubt do not approve of extra judicial killings.

Can we now move back to the subject of the thread.

cheers to that ... but I think the revised estimates are as high as 7500 ... with something in the middle being more likely!

as a sidenote to that ... when Saddam was executed ... wasn't it for only a few hundred extra juducial murders?

[ColPyat]

But while we discuss a buch of other world leaders lets not forget Mr. Thaksin's death toll which stands at at least 2500 and this has been reported the world over by international media and human rights groups. It doesnt actually matter what other world leaders have done in a final analysis, and there is no justification for it. I am sure we can all agree on that as we no doubt do not approve of extra judicial killings.

Can we now move back to the subject of the thread.

The drug war killings issue is an issue that should be fully investigated, yet, this is the only issue that is avoided to be investigated beyond superficial lip service.

One problem is that it is entirely possible that it simply cannot be investigated because of the more than active participation in the planning and execution stages by many other factions in Thai power politics and beyond, and that Thaksin was just another participant in a concerted effort by all power factions here.

Thaksin alone could have never pulled it off.

[thai_narak]

They are being paid. For instance, most factory workers in Samutsakorn are being fetch by a van everyday and paid Bt200 just to sit in Sanam Luang. I think Thaksin is again financing these mobs now that the ban was lifted.

[ColPyat]

Thaksin never dissolved parlaiment? or Thaksin never sued and sued and sued his opponents ... if only he had had access to a few concentration camps! <though H sending political opponents to camps?????>

again ... as analogy it stands far better than most pushed by Der Fuhrer's buddies in here!`

My headache rises...

Thaksin's dissolution was entirely within the law, and he has called new elections straight away, and the dissolution was signed by the King.

Hitler dissolved parliament never to open it again, never to allow elections again, as elections were part of a by him despised political system.

Thaksin has never dissolved any opposition party, Hitler has dissolved every other party as soon as he came to power.

The first people that were sent to concentration camps by Hitler were socialists, social democrats, and communists.

[A_Traveller]

<snip>

You forget though that after Vietnam ousted the Khmer Rouge both US and the UK have also supported the Khmer Rouge massively, both with money, weapons and training. The British SAS is said not only having been involved in training, but also in active combat.

Pardon? Forgive me, I don't understand your post. [after .. ousted KR.. both US UK supported KR?] Please clarify for me.

Regards

[jdinasia]

They are being paid. For instance, most factory workers in Samutsakorn are being fetch by a van everyday and paid Bt200 just to sit in Sanam Luang. I think Thaksin is again financing these mobs now that the ban was lifted.

NO NO NO! Say it isn't true! I must be wrong! after all Thaksin has sooooooooooooo many supporters that he would never have to PAY people to be at his rallies!

[ColPyat]

<snip>

You forget though that after Vietnam ousted the Khmer Rouge both US and the UK have also supported the Khmer Rouge massively, both with money, weapons and training. The British SAS is said not only having been involved in training, but also in active combat.

Pardon? Forgive me, I don't understand your post. [after .. ousted KR.. both US UK supported KR?] Please clarify for me.

Regards

Sorry, i am not a native English speaker.

After Vietnam invaded Cambodia and threw the Khmer Rouge out, both US and UK have massively supported the Khmer Rouge in their guerrilla war against the Vietnamese occupiers. I hope i made myself more clear now.

[jdinasia]

Thaksin never dissolved parlaiment? or Thaksin never sued and sued and sued his opponents ... if only he had had access to a few concentration camps! <though H sending political opponents to camps?????>

again ... as analogy it stands far better than most pushed by Der Fuhrer's buddies in here!`

My headache rises...

Thaksin's dissolution was entirely within the law, and he has called new elections straight away, and the dissolution was signed by the King.

again as analogy goes ..... Thaksin=Hitler is a pretty good match ....

note ... we are currently under a government that was endorsed by HM. So if 'signed by the King' is enough for you .... then you can immediatlt stop all your protestations regarding our current government

[ColPyat]

They are being paid. For instance, most factory workers in Samutsakorn are being fetch by a van everyday and paid Bt200 just to sit in Sanam Luang. I think Thaksin is again financing these mobs now that the ban was lifted.

Any evidence? I believe the Thaksin opposition would be very glad if you could present them with proof.

I have no doubt that there are instances of this, but i very much doubt that it happens on such a large scale as you imply.

[ColPyat]

Thaksin never dissolved parlaiment? or Thaksin never sued and sued and sued his opponents ... if only he had had access to a few concentration camps! <though H sending political opponents to camps?????>

again ... as analogy it stands far better than most pushed by Der Fuhrer's buddies in here!`

My headache rises...

Thaksin's dissolution was entirely within the law, and he has called new elections straight away, and the dissolution was signed by the King.

again as analogy goes ..... Thaksin=Hitler is a pretty good match ....

note ... we are currently under a government that was endorsed by HM. So if 'signed by the King' is enough for you .... then you can immediatlt stop all your protestations regarding our current government

Don't nitpick.

The dissolution of parliament was done according to the letter of the law, and that included the signature of the King. The coup was not legal, and no law supported it. I hope you are able to see the difference.

[lukamar]

note ... we are currently under a government that was endorsed by HM.

So was the one before that (Thaksin's), and every one before that for the last 60 years. So what's your point?

[jdinasia]

Thaksin never dissolved parlaiment? or Thaksin never sued and sued and sued his opponents ... if only he had had access to a few concentration camps! <though H sending political opponents to camps?????>

again ... as analogy it stands far better than most pushed by Der Fuhrer's buddies in here!`

My headache rises...

Thaksin's dissolution was entirely within the law, and he has called new elections straight away, and the dissolution was signed by the King.

again as analogy goes ..... Thaksin=Hitler is a pretty good match ....

note ... we are currently under a government that was endorsed by HM. So if 'signed by the King' is enough for you .... then you can immediatlt stop all your protestations regarding our current government

Don't nitpick.

The dissolution of parliament was done according to the letter of the law, and that included the signature of the King. The coup was not legal, and no law supported it. I hope you are able to see the difference.

nothing nitpicky about it

we got rid of a not so benign dictator and got saddled with a junta .... the junta is every bit as legal today as Thaksin was .... Then again there was a reason TRT was disbanded and 111 execs were banned .....