Good points GuestHouse, also, as I pointed out in my earlier post, she seriously needs to research visa issues for her husband. Also, since he will be retiring, health costs and the state of health care where she chooses to live.

Again, I think she needs to do far more research on life in Thailand than just those memories of her childhood.

Education; quality and costs

Visas

Health Care

and last but most certainly not least: income.

Hello again everyone:

I have so many things to say to all of you, hope my little one sleeps long enough so I have time to write what 's on my mind.

First of all I would like to thank you all of you to take your valuable time to read and many of you even point out some things I never thought about. I do appreciate. Some of you make me feel so good that I cry. Thanks for kind words and understanding. Some of you might sound a little 'jai-rai' but I don't blame you since it's because you don't know a lot of informations about me, my husband and other details. Any way thank you.

Second, I meant to apologize my mistakes. I know I have made a lot of misspelling, and all kinds of mistake trying to communicate. To be honest my reading, speaking and listening skill is far better than my 'key-boarding.' Soory about that.

I admit that my knowledge about visa for my husband and son to be able to live in Thailand is close to none. I didn't have time to research that yet, since I don't even know if it's the right thing to move them there. That's why I started asking your opinion. But I'll make time to study that issue.

My husband and I consider ourselves 'STRANGE' people. Whenever we have time we are just stay home , read our books, listen to our huge collection of music, sometimes my husband plays piano, watch Star Gate, Indiana Jones, Falty Towers and other movies we have. We only go out to buy grocery, and we make lists of what we need to buy before we leave home. We don't drink alcohol and soda, don't smoke. We are not vegetarians but pretty close because we aet a lot of vegetable, tofu, nut. We only eat meat once in a while. We recycle everything. We don't join any church but we do give to charities. In this year til today we have donated close to 1,000$ in cash. We don't follow fasion. We don't were jewelry, but our wedding bands.

We take our son to the library once or twice a week. We go to public park or beaches to relax. We know people think that we are boring but we just love to be together like this. And we don't get to do it too often.

My husband is one of the best pilots in his company. He was a chief pilot, ground instructor, inflight instructor and simulation instructor, he made a lot of extra money from those job but he recently quit all those because he coulnd't take them anymore, since there were endless meetings with his students, several business trips. Poeple have high respect of him but he never let anybody call him 'captain' or 'sir' or even 'mister' but his first name. Each x-mas we receive about 100 cards from his colleagues, airport securities, janitors, doctors, lawyers. He is one of the nices and most generous man on earth. He doesn't like to be served. Since he is a captain, the airline always give first class seat when he goes on business trip while give other employees business or economy class. If he can't apgrade the seats for other poeple on his trip he alway volunteer to downgrade his own. He says poeple should be treated equally.

We don't like big city. Infact we try as much as we can to avoid going to big city.

About getting a job in Thailand. I have been offering a job as a lecturer at a university. It's been awhile that one of my friends who is a university professor encourage me to take the job. I won't make a lot of money but I will have a housing benefit and my son can go to ' unversity satis' school for free. I don't need a lot of money to survive but I know if I want to get a job in Thailand, I want to be the job that's respectable. The reason is I know what most people think when they see a Farang walking with a Thai woman. I don't want my husband and my son to get emotionally abuse from strangers. I also have secretly thinking about opening a drug store (pharmacy) in Thailand. I have friends who are doing that and they are living pretty well.

Believe me, I know how important education is, since my husband and myself are the living examples. We both came from very similar back ground and we have done pretty well with our lives.

This are some of the plans I have in my head. But I'm still quite unsure about what to do. I really don't know what you have to face living there. I wonder if any of you get attack, physically or emotionally from Farang haters? I've heard there are some Thai people who are pretty upset with Farangs living in Thailand. I don't have a chance to be there long enough to see how people react toward my husband and my son. Infact, I would like to know if you think that Thailand is the land of connection. I have a lot of friends in Thailand in all kinds of field that whenever we go there (on vacation) we always get special treatment (well, usaully we don't like it but having a little time but have too manythings to do, sometimes a little help is needed), like never had to wait in line at the bank, airport, government offices, discount at hotel, etc. I wonder if we live there, our lives will be so easy as when we are on vacation? really don't know. What kind if treatment do you receive from the people in Thailand?

Thank you for reading,

momathome

Momothome,

I think it's very charming and very touching that you are so frank and open about your feelings.

I sense in your above post that you are very concerned about how Thai people in general will view the relationship between yourself and your husband.

I have some experience of this. I lived in Bangkok 45 years ago where I taught English. My first girl friend (proper) was a Thai student. I agreed to teach her English in exchange for her teaching me Thai.

One weekend we visited Hua Hin and booked into a hotel. I was convinced we were going to make love. However, when the bellboy showed us the room, which had only one double bed, she asked the bellboy if he would bring a second bed to the room.

Being young and stupid, I thought she was trying to tell me that making love was off the agenda, but in fact she was just trying to create the impression she was not a bar girl.

So I understand your concern about this problem, but you should have a better idea about how real this problem is because you are Thai and understand all the subtleties of Thai culture and prejudices.

reading through all you have written, the points that come to my mind are:

- you have understandably very fond and nostalgic memories of your own childhood, and of Thailand. but need to keep in mind that no matter what you do, your child(ren) is not going to have the childhood you did. He is going to grow up in a very different world -- even if you go back to Thailand, because Thailand has changed a lot -- and be very different with respect to "fitting in" because whether in Thailand or the US, he will always be a bi-cultural, bi-racial child. That is not necessarily bad, it has its benefits, but it is important that you understand that it is quite different from anything you ever experienced growing up. You talk about how Thais would react towards your husband but to my mind the greater concern is how they would react to your son as a "look kreung". Depending on where in the US you live, your son might be better assimilated and have a better chance at feeling he belongs there than in Thailand.

- as I mentioned, Thailand has changed, a lot. Even just in the past 2 years the cost of living has gone up dramatically. It costs a great deal more than it did when you lived here.

The number one financial issue to my mind is not your working vs staying home (actually kind of sounds like you would like to go back to work...which is understandable and maybe you should let your husband know that). The big issue is your son's education. To have much in the way of future prospects and opportunities, it will be necessary to enroll your son in private international schools in Thailand, and these are very, very expensive. Few people can afford them on a retirement pension, and middle class Thais can't afford them either. I would suggest you sit down and try to do a budget that includes tuition at an international school (which if you live in Rayong might have to be a boarding school situation during the week) and compare that to what your husband's pension would be and what you could realistically earn.

Regarding your questions about how Thais might respond to your husband, he'd be safe enough physically but would of course face a number of challenges, being a foreigner in a country where he doesn't even speak the language. And yes, anti-foreigner sentiment in Thailand is much worse than before and rising. Not that all Thais are that way, of course. Actually I think the greater problem for him would be the language barrier and being simulataneously in a foreign culture and without his work, which no matter how stressful it may be has also provided him with a sense of identity. How he would react to all this depends on him, but it would certainly be an adjustment and it would be important that the retirement be his own choice. And that he have a chance to prepare by learning at least basic Thai.

It is understandable that you are lonely and homesick. Just being away from your homeland would be reason enough, and on top of it your husband travels for work a lot. I can understand how difficult it is for you and how much you need to be back home with your family. But from what I've read of your situation a complete move to Thailand doesn't seem like a very good or feasible solution at this time. Is it possible for you to spend a few months of the year there instead? Is it possible for your husband to arrange his work so that he flies Asian routes (so that even when you are in Thailand you can still see each other)? These might not be perfect solutions, but they may be the best under the current circumstances.

Good luck whatever you decide to do!

momathome,

It is possible that one reason your husband may be continuing to work, is because his prior wives may have claims on his returement income. It is not unusual tha divorced spouses are apportioned pension benefits from their prior spouses. What may seem like a lot in saving may not be as much as you think. Perhaps he is just trying to maximize these accounts. He has children from the prior marriages? are they all through school, including university? these are huge expenses and your husband rightly sees that he is at his peak earning potential right now and is in the best position to pay for these obligations (if they exist).. it's always difficult to know when to bail out of a good situation. I had a similar job to your husband earning well, but not his obligations. i bailed out sooner. i wish you and your family well, wherever you choose to reside.

I think you have your answer with all the emails that you got but I'll offer my experience so far. I've been to thailand 4 times on vacation. Last year I moved here. It was a hard decision, I have a new car, new house and had a good paying job in the states. I would not have left but I did not like my job. I have a top possition in a Thai/american company now but make less than half of what I did in the states. Living here has taken quite a bit of getting used to. Even though living here can be cheap, living here with all the same comforts from home(USA) is costing me more or about the same. If I had a good Thai wife I think I would be much happier living in the US. There are just too many things I had there that I can not get here or they cost twice as much here. Cars, boats, motorcycles, stuff that guys like. As for your husband, I think he would only make 20 percent of his sallary here, and thats if he is lucky. Since he has a good wife and everything materrial wise, I think there is no where to go but down. Only thing to offer him here is women. Not good for you. Even the strongest of men will be tempted by the countless number of young availble beutiful women. Also unless he speaks thai and has strong back ground in managment or starts a really good company here, making over 100,000 baht here a month will be hard. I bet right now you guys make well over 1/2 milllion baht now.

I understand that life is very lonely because you're staying home mom and husband absent @15 days of the month. Although your husband hates his job but he was twice divorced and now with the new family that can also put a lot of stress on him. Because he's starting all over again and probably the previous wives and child support could put a dent on him, therefore he would like to work longer for the retirement with you and your/his son's future. You need to change your mind set that now your son is your first priority and you owe it to him before you move to Thailand. I think he would have more opportunity in the US than Thailand.

Also you need lots of Bahts for him to go school either in Thailand or the US and I don't try to say you could not afford for him. Sure, you will be happy with your Thai family but take into consideration also that if the wind turns, your husband would not be lonely if he's not closed to his family?

I suggest you keep your condo and live both places at least 5 yrs before you make a permanent move. Try to think clearly and good luck!

Sure husband's situation, child, finance etc. are important issues that should be carefully discussed with the husband, but also, Momathome's loneliness and homesickness. If these problems are not addressed, things can detoriate quickly, which is not healthy for anyone involved.

Also, a mother who's with her child 24/7 and with fairly much no social life is, IMO, not a healthy situation. A child needs to learn it can be seperated from its mother for short periods of time, for example when mommy goes to a two hour hobby club or does a morning volunteer or part-time work. But mommy ALWAYS comes back!

Now the child is still young, but what when the child goes to school. Then Momathome is home alone most of the day. If i would be her, i would for sure climb the walls.

I won't be surprised if Momathome can do something else just for a few hours week, away from home and her responsibilities, her feelings of loneliness will decrease and her feelings of self-worth will increase. When that happens she probably will look at her situation as it is now differently, more positive.

Nienke

My feeling is it might not be a wise decision to remain in an unhappy situation for the sake of the education of one's child. This might put unfair pressure on the child, if the child senses, learns or is told that his/her parents are making such a sacrifice of their own happiness merely for his/her education.

A child's attitude towards education, willingness to learn and ability to get enjoyment from learning is really something that is fostered by the attidue of the child's parents to education. Momathome and her husband are both professionals with a university eduation, so any of their children should have a head start in that respect.

In fact, an intelligent mother who has the time to spend with her young child before school age can help give such a child an enormous head start in the 3 Rs (sometimes referred to as 'hot-housing') but not I suspect if she's unhappy with her situation.

I think the questions you need to address have been well presented ( I don't recognize any Jai Rai) I also think that some very practical advice has been given on what can be done now, without leaving the security of the current situation.

If you work through those posts, addressing the questions, and consider the suggestions, particularly with respect to going back to work in the US (even part time), then I think you will remove many of the barriers to find the right answer for all your family.

Take stock of what cards you and your husband have and how best to play them - Talking about taking up an appointment in a Thai University or setting up a Pharmacy, without first talking to your husband about his wishes, and your family's current financial resources is only fooling yourself with a pipe dream.

Accept that your life in Thailand is behind you, your future and your child's future is in the hands of you and your husband - Talk to him, make a plan with him and come to terms with life as it is, not what memory and sentimentality tell you it used to be.

Sometimes hard nosed, practical decisions and the safest options are not always the best choices.

You must both consult your hearts as well as your heads.

Why don't you see if your husband can take a one year sabatical, or something like that, and then you guys move here during that one year.

THEN, decide if you BOTH can handle it.

The visa issues, the stamps, the questions, his staying at home with no friends and nothing really to do (not that taking care of the little one is not work) while you work.

The crazy motorcycle drivers, not being able to find anything that you all of a sudden would like to have, the pollution.. the heat..

THen, let us know after the year is up what you decide.

momathome,

I can somewhat understand your issues of isolation as I am also a stay at home mother but have two children ( one boy age 3 and one girl 6 months) and I am very dedicated to them as you show with your son regarding nursing and education, etc. My husband is also a captain and has worked at the same small airline for 25 years and is currently number 1 in seniority. He has a similar salary to your husband. Unlike your husband, he is home based which means he can live anywhere he wants. Technically this is supposed to be the states but his company has always allowed pilots to unofficially live anywhere in the world provided they "make their way" to the base they will be flying out of for that bid. We keep a p.o. box in the states at our "official base" where we have company mail forwarded to us from. The bases he flies out of mostly have international starts.

I will turn 30 this month. This is the first marriage for both of us so we don't have to worry about supporting ex's or other children.

While I was born to American parents, I was born abroad and have lived most of my life as an expat in Europe and Asia. My husband is also American but he spent most of the last 20 of his 50 years living in Europe and Asia. I am half-Asian(Korean and Caucasian) but could pass as any Asian nationality.

We did not decide to move to America ( at the time I was teaching at an International School in northern China) until I was 4 months pregnant and decided that it would be better to give birth to my son in America. Family illnesses and deaths prolonged our stay and next thing we knew we were settled in the States and living the typical American family lifestyle. Spending way too much money on things that just made us feel more unhappy and tied down to fit in with the neighborhood lifestyle. I isolated myself completely with my children as I found I could not relate to any "natives" although technically we were both Americans living in our homeland. My husband also grew restless too and we both longed for Asia but we kept justifying that this was the best place for our children to learn native English and I wanted to make sure my son had a good grasp of American English before we left. (He had made up his own language at home the first 2 years and would not repeat English words until he was 2.5 and wanted to follow his peers) Also my husband and children are all blond and blue-eyed and I worried that my children might have trouble sticking out.

Now we have decided to move to Asia and think that Phuket would make the best compromise for our situation as Thais love little children, there are many mixed and farong looking children,the climate is to our preference, the air is clean, and help is cheap. ( The last factor being the key difference to the states) As I was trained in elementary education - I don't mind homeschooling my children if necessary but HELP in taking care of my children's basic needs and household help -that would take so much stress away from my life. I really believe it takes a village to raise a child and a Thai village beats an American suburb full of over scheduled soccer moms.

We are giving this a 1 year sabbatical try as we realize adjustments with a family in tow might be more complicated than when it was just us two.

If we cannot secure visas through the retirement factor( my husband just turned 50 so it is my understanding he is eligible but I'm not sure if he can get this is he is still working for an American company) then I might have to teach at an international school so the family can have visas.

One of the benefits of teaching at an international school is that your children usually get free tuition or a huge reduction. Sounds like your university gig would be a similar situation although I don't know what the uni school is like in comparison to an international school?

If you are not happy in the States- then your son will not be happy. And you cannot keep up your facade of happiness for your husband forever either or you will build up serious resentment towards him for your martrydom. Because your husband is gone half the time- you have to have outside outlets to rely on - and a 3 year old will be overwhelmed is he is the sole outlet.

You need some support in your isolation. I am lucky I am an American in America albeit a "Busified" America so I can deal with my husband being gone half the month but I cannot imagine how horrible it would be to be a foreigner in America in that situation stuck alone for long periods with just your son. If you cannot relocate to Thailand then you should bring Thailand to you.

Is it possible to bring over some relatives (parents, etc.) for long stays to help you in raising your son? Are there groups of Thai mothers near where you live that you could join or can you guys move to such an area? Your son deserves to be just as exposed to your culture as your husband's. To fully understand his mother - he has to be able to understand and respect the culture you come from. That is very hard to do unless he is regularly immersed in it and has peers from it.

I speak from experience there- I did not respect or try to learn my Asian mother's or grandmother's culture growing up because I felt western culture was superior and wanted to fit in with my western friends especially because I looked more Asian and wanted to prove I was just as "American" as my peers. But your son is only 3- he has at least 8 more years to go before that would become too much a factor.

Your husband has only so many years of flying left before mandatory retirement at 60 or possibly 65 with the current legislation. And if he is like my husband then flying is like breathing and you can't expect him to give that up.

Explore what is best for his flying career and see first if he can get a more flexible "unofficial" home base and commute on his own to work or look at a possible expat job elsewhere if there is none available in Thailand. T

hat expat job might not be in Thailand but maybe you would be happier in any expat community of pilot's wives in Asia than your current situation.

Realize he will have to give up a lot of seniority. This will likely mean a lot less flexibility and time off. But if he doesn't like his current job like you mention- it could be worth the switch and he could be in an expat airline that is expanding with future growth and rather than shrinking or status quo- I'm guessing?

There are plenty of international airlines looking for experienced American pilots to live as expats in their countries. Lots of startups in China and India. UAE in Dubai, etc. Most offer benefit packages that include housing, education, tax-free salaries to 85k etc. At least in those places you would be in a community of other airline wives with more similar situations to your own and you could all support each other.

Also FYI,

My husband has 5 friends from work who are currently married to Thai Wives. 2 live in Thailand. 3 live is the U.S. All but one of the women that had children moved back to Thailand to be near thier families and culture. The one that did not move back to Thailand and had a child is now getting a divorce.

All of the other wives that moved to Thailand are very happy and thier husbands are very happy. Most wonder why they didn't move sooner as it is much easier to raise small children in Thailand than in the states with all the extra help and support. That gives the wife more time to devote to her husband and makes her less likely to resent him for her having to be both parents when he is gone.

The airline industry puts a very unique strain on the family. Because the husband is gone at least half the time- it is the wife that has the responsibilities as sole parent for 50% of that child's life. She needs the support of her family and community when her husband is not there.

None of the his collegues wives have ever complained about being looked down upon while in Thailand with thier children. In fact, they described the situation similiar to the "worship" that you described if anything.

Marriage and Children with a foriegner is a whole different ballgame than "local girlfriend".

While I was teaching in Asia before I had children- I felt looked down upon whenever my husband was in town because locals would assume I was one of them and that I must be a bar girl with a foriegner. I was amused by this because I was flattered that I was assumed local. I also got much better prices for things that my tall blond blue-eyed husband so I would purposely do the shopping and bargaining alone. But when they saw him with me - most would avoid even looking at me and would only talk to him like I was a leper or something.

Since I've had children - I and my children have been nothing but doted upon in most Asian countries. The exception being Japan and to a lesser extent Korea. I feel that Thais genuinely love all small children and mixed and foriegn children are especially doted upon. That is generally the feeling we get throughout southeast Asia and most of China.