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DE filter trick to change powder easily ?


SlyouThai
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From experience im a strong believer DE filters are way better than sand filters. The problem is with overflow pool, when you backwash or clean you need to add your DE powder mix and most of time i will do it using the vaccum hole of the pool . I make my mixture in a big bucket and i use a plastic pipe to go inside the vaccuum and suck it all in. Its actually not that easy to do and if you do it in a villa where you have customers it really look like a cheap work.

 

Any idea what could be done in the pump room to be able to have the mix directly entering before the pump and filter ?

 

Thanks

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Perhaps, easier would be to pour the DE powder directly into the pump - once you open the plastic lid of the pump basket - perhaps in more than one go.

 

BTW, what is your experience with the DE?   Few times I had added it into my sand filter, did not see any difference, beside the hassle with the powder. 

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Does your pool have a skimmer?  Easiest way to add DE to the filter in a way that evenly coats the filter elements is to make a DE slurry in a bucket, and then slowly pour it into the skimmer intake.  If you don't want customers to see this you could do it at night or very early morning. 

 

 

 

1 Concrete Pool Skimmer Installation & Repair Service in San Diego, CA -  Voted Best in January 2022

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You could try this or a variation of the theme it would have to be made out of pvc or 316 stainless steel

The concept is for introducing chemicals into a closed loop boiler system. But should work for your use. 

If not google dosing pots for a better choice.

Filter-Feeder-Installation-Diagram__94798.1531685235.jpg

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Ok the usual suspects havent taken the bait, it is a grossly over engineered solution to a fairly simple problem.

A simpler solution involves a saddle clamp a few pvc fittings a valve and some one inch hose, answers on a postcard please.

 

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Sapparest provides some of the most intelligent answers on this forum. In my former days as a pool engineer, D.E. filters were all the rage and naturally one brand monopolised the market. In terms of filtration, they were highly efficient. The filter grids of the better brands were all made by the same OEM and are interchangable. However, D.E. was always messy and maintenance intensive, not to mention the recommended yearly total disassembly to check on the grids that often require replacing.

 

Then came Zelbrite. A media which together with a new, quality brand sand filter, is far less expensive and far outstrips the performance of D.E.,  and is almost totally maintenance free except for occasional backwashing.

(and no, I'm not a shill for the product, or even for the people who sell it -  just a happy  pool owner using  it for 17  years and perfectly  happy  with  my  local  pool company who built the pool and still give me the best service.)

zeolite.png

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On 1/18/2022 at 1:51 PM, Chaichara said:

Sapparest provides some of the most intelligent answers on this forum. In my former days as a pool engineer, D.E. filters were all the rage and naturally one brand monopolised the market. In terms of filtration, they were highly efficient. The filter grids of the better brands were all made by the same OEM and are interchangable. However, D.E. was always messy and maintenance intensive, not to mention the recommended yearly total disassembly to check on the grids that often require replacing.

 

Then came Zelbrite. A media which together with a new, quality brand sand filter, is far less expensive and far outstrips the performance of D.E.,  and is almost totally maintenance free except for occasional backwashing.

(and no, I'm not a shill for the product, or even for the people who sell it -  just a happy  pool owner using  it for 17  years and perfectly  happy  with  my  local  pool company who built the pool and still give me the best service.)

zeolite.png

"Eco Clear" recycled plate glass is just as good as Zeolite! Zelbrite is a brand name. In fact it is better!

"Eco Clear" doesn't clog up with metals or algae like Zeolite which then needs recharging with brine or replacing!

In this test you can bet they used bottle glass not recycled plate glass as the microns show. Big difference!

"Eco Clear" filters down to 3 microns.

 

image.png.7e9d34e68392d3189bc562fed3b15dbb.png

 

image.png.5908f6a201ca711901d8b9a35857b4e2.png

 

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On 1/17/2022 at 5:16 PM, sappersrest said:

Ok the usual suspects havent taken the bait, it is a grossly over engineered solution to a fairly simple problem.

A simpler solution involves a saddle clamp a few pvc fittings a valve and some one inch hose, answers on a postcard please.

 

ok thanks , not sure i visualize it yet in my head but if you have a schema or picture that would be greatly appreciated.

 

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On 1/20/2022 at 4:22 PM, Bagwain said:

"Eco Clear" recycled plate glass is just as good as Zeolite! Zelbrite is a brand name. In fact it is better!

"Eco Clear" doesn't clog up with metals or algae like Zeolite which then needs recharging with brine or replacing!

In this test you can bet they used bottle glass not recycled plate glass as the microns show. Big difference!

"Eco Clear" filters down to 3 microns.

 

image.png.7e9d34e68392d3189bc562fed3b15dbb.png

 

image.png.5908f6a201ca711901d8b9a35857b4e2.png

 

from experience i dont agree with that , at some point i had a pool turning green with customers inside , with zellbrite filter . WE couldnt get the pool back running 24/7 the pump. The pool team bring a transportable pool/filter combo with DE filter. Without 10 hours the pool was crystal clear without the need of schoking

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2 hours ago, SlyouThai said:

from experience i dont agree with that , at some point i had a pool turning green with customers inside , with zellbrite filter . WE couldnt get the pool back running 24/7 the pump. The pool team bring a transportable pool/filter combo with DE filter. Without 10 hours the pool was crystal clear without the need of schoking

Your reply doesn't make sense. 

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3 hours ago, Bagwain said:

Your reply doesn't make sense. 

had a pool with Sand filter ( zellbrite ) had a lot of trouble to keep it crystal clear with good chemical balance. At some points it start turning whitish/green even with 24/24 on pump for a few days without improvement . We changed the filter to a DE filter and 12 hours later the pool was cristal clear

Edited by SlyouThai
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1 hour ago, SlyouThai said:

had a pool with Sand filter ( zellbrite ) had a lot of trouble to keep it crystal clear with good chemical balance. At some points it start turning whitish/green even with 24/24 on pump for a few days without improvement . We changed the filter to a DE filter and 12 hours later the pool was cristal clear

So how long was the Zeolite in use? 

It clogs up espeicially with high metal content in the water.

"Eco Clear" doesn't have this issue and is as good as DE without the ongoing consumerables and hassles!

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2 hours ago, Bagwain said:

So how long was the Zeolite in use? 

It clogs up espeicially with high metal content in the water.

"Eco Clear" doesn't have this issue and is as good as DE without the ongoing consumerables and hassles!

was quite new because we were already having problems with the pool so we emptied the filter and change media to Zellbrite

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9 hours ago, SlyouThai said:

from experience i dont agree with that , at some point i had a pool turning green with customers inside , with zellbrite filter . WE couldnt get the pool back running 24/7 the pump. The pool team bring a transportable pool/filter combo with DE filter. Without 10 hours the pool was crystal clear without the need of schoking

also i would add this , most pool companies in phuket have emergency pump/filter combo they can carry in a pickup and put in place in a pool that need a quick "bad" water solution. Everytime they bring a DE filter , never a sand filter with eco or Zeolite. Thats probably for a reason 🙂  

Edited by SlyouThai
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13 hours ago, SlyouThai said:

also i would add this , most pool companies in phuket have emergency pump/filter combo they can carry in a pickup and put in place in a pool that need a quick "bad" water solution. Everytime they bring a DE filter , never a sand filter with eco or Zeolite. Thats probably for a reason 🙂  

No doubt that DE is good filtration. Eco is just as good, cheaper and no ongoing consumerables!

The reason they use the DE as a mobile set up is becuase they are lighter than a sand filter!

 

Edited by Bagwain
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  • 2 weeks later...
On 1/18/2022 at 1:51 PM, Chaichara said:

Sapparest provides some of the most intelligent answers on this forum. In my former days as a pool engineer, D.E. filters were all the rage and naturally one brand monopolised the market. In terms of filtration, they were highly efficient. The filter grids of the better brands were all made by the same OEM and are interchangable. However, D.E. was always messy and maintenance intensive, not to mention the recommended yearly total disassembly to check on the grids that often require replacing.

 

Then came Zelbrite. A media which together with a new, quality brand sand filter, is far less expensive and far outstrips the performance of D.E.,  and is almost totally maintenance free except for occasional backwashing.

(and no, I'm not a shill for the product, or even for the people who sell it -  just a happy  pool owner using  it for 17  years and perfectly  happy  with  my  local  pool company who built the pool and still give me the best service.)

zeolite.png

 

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I've been in the pool business all my life and am 72 years old now. Forget Diatomaceous Earth DE and dump your DE filter = too much hard work expensive to maintain at 100% performance.  Forget sand (3  years max life) - forget Ecoclear (6 years life) - Zelbrite 5 years then EASILY re-generate with salt water overnight for 5 years more and so on.... BUT backwash sand weekly (waste of water, salt & chemicals) - backwash Zelbrite one time every 4 to 6 weeks - filter throughput is higher and faster because if filer user 100 kilos of sand you only use 75 kilos of Zelbrite.  Zelbrite takes out smaller particles than all other media and removes chloramines, some bacteria and some viruses (chlamydia) PM me for my prices and delivery anywhere in Thailand....

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12 minutes ago, bobholds said:

I've been in the pool business all my life and am 72 years old now. Forget Diatomaceous Earth DE and dump your DE filter = too much hard work expensive to maintain at 100% performance.  Forget sand (3  years max life) - forget Ecoclear (6 years life) - Zelbrite 5 years then EASILY re-generate with salt water overnight for 5 years more and so on.... BUT backwash sand weekly (waste of water, salt & chemicals) - backwash Zelbrite one time every 4 to 6 weeks - filter throughput is higher and faster because if filer user 100 kilos of sand you only use 75 kilos of Zelbrite.  Zelbrite takes out smaller particles than all other media and removes chloramines, some bacteria and some viruses (chlamydia) PM me for my prices and delivery anywhere in Thailand....

As others have stated, D.E. , once the best known method, compared to modern, maintenance-free sand filters, is messy, maintenance intenhsive (regular cleaning and replacement if the screens, etc), is now very oldfashioned. Zelbrite is the absolute way to go (forget shills trying to get rid of their over-purchase of stock of glass media).

 

That said, Bob, yours is not the only store selling it.

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5 hours ago, Chaichara said:

As others have stated, D.E. , once the best known method, compared to modern, maintenance-free sand filters, is messy, maintenance intenhsive (regular cleaning and replacement if the screens, etc), is now very oldfashioned. Zelbrite is the absolute way to go (forget shills trying to get rid of their over-purchase of stock of glass media).

 

That said, Bob, yours is not the only store selling it.

Again putting all glass media into the same basket! Wrong again!

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Am I here correct in a forum for pool problems? 

 

Or is it here to show off how many professional years some have had?

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16 minutes ago, Saanim said:

Am I here correct in a forum for pool problems? 

 

Or is it here to show off how many professional years some have had?

By your replies, ignorance is bliss!

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22 hours ago, bobholds said:

BUT backwash sand weekly (waste of water, salt & chemicals) - backwash Zelbrite one time every 4 to 6 weeks

" backwash one time every 4 to 6 weeks"? To force the crystal clear water through the dirty filter that collected any possible filth over 4 - 6 weeks? The reason to save water and chemicals? 

And you neither make vacuuming, leaving the dirt laying at the bottom over 4 - 6 weeks? That also because of saving water and chemicals?

 

Of course, the vacuuming directly into drain will lose a lot of water. However, it needs to be done more frequently. Not only because of the fallen leaves and dust laying at the bottom, but also because of the sediment after reaction of H2O with all the wonder chemicals after time period. 

 

I do the vacuuming through the filter, if frequently (1 x week), the filter can manage the dirt. If not, in the half of it, shortly backwashing and vacuuming again. Then the backwashing does not take so long, some 20 seconds with a short rinsing i-between.

 

By this way I kill 2 birds with one stone, not much water loosing. Neither chemicals, since the chlorine level I keep very low, just to get some protection against bad bacteria, keeping the good bacteria alive...😀  

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11 hours ago, Bagwain said:

By your replies, ignorance is bliss!

Both, but the more professional they are, the more polite they express themselves. There is a difference between a polished pool showroom with a truly qualified pool expert and a street marketeer with a surplus of stock in his garage desperate to get rid of.

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11 hours ago, Saanim said:

Am I here correct in a forum for pool problems? 

 

Or is it here to show off how many professional years some have had?

The reason why several of us have divulged the no of years in the industry is because of late there has been some terrible and in some cases downright dangerous advice given  by those who think that  they know .

Yes it is a forum for advice , and in my case is given freely without bias.

As proffesionals we are bound to give industry standard advice which is in mot cases the same the world over.

By all means if you have a pool and want advice , please post.

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14 minutes ago, sappersrest said:

There is no good bacteria in a swimming pool any bacteria is bad for your pool

Bacteria is only good in a sewage works, 

Correct, Sapparest, and thank you for that, but for years, some of the other participants in this  TV pool forum have a strange habit of totally confusing pool filtration with pool disinfection.  Two entirely different processes even if they (sometimes) take place in the same pump room. Sorry to say, but even some who claim to be pool professionals get it wrong. Are we not already saturated with the constant stream of fantastic/fantasy claims for crushed recycled glass - for example?

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On 1/12/2022 at 5:30 PM, SlyouThai said:

I make my mixture in a big bucket and i use a plastic pipe to go inside the vaccuum and suck it all in. Its actually not that easy to do and if you do it in a villa where you have customers it really look like a cheap work.

You just need a professional looking bucket and some bright blue hose with the correct fitting for the skimmer.  

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1 hour ago, sappersrest said:

There is no good bacteria in a swimming pool any bacteria is bad for your pool

Bacteria is only good in a sewage works, 

Without bacteria there is no life.

 

Quote

 

Yet, not all bacteria are bad guys. In fact, our bodies are home to an estimated 100 trillion “good” bacteria, many of which reside in our gut. Not only do we live in harmony with these beneficial bacteria, but they are actually essential to our survival.

Good bacteria help our bodies digest food and absorb nutrients, and they produce several vitamins in the intestinal tract — including folic acid, niacin, and vitamins B6 and B12. According to research published in the journal Best Practice & Research Clinical GastroenterologyTrusted Source, beneficial bacteria may also protect us against their dangerous relatives that cause disease by crowding them out in the gut, producing acids that inhibit their growth, and stimulating the immune system to fight them off. https://www.healthline.com/health/cold-flu/good-bad-germs

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Saanim said:

Without bacteria there is no life.

 

 

Thank you for the lecture, but it detracts from the fact that this is a pool forum. That's all that former pool professionals are interested in discussing here. People can and do get quickly ill from poorly maintained pool water because it's constantly recycled. It's not a bathtub where you pull the plug and flush the water away after every use. Nor does passing the water through a few grains of crushed glass destroy the unsafe microorganisms.

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I have a sandfilter with Zellbrite.

 

Sometimes there is a thin layer of fine dirt on the bottom which the filter do not take.

 

Then I scatter a spoonful of DE in the skimmer basket with the pump running and make a vacuum of the pool.

 

It is then easy to see that the filter now collects the fine dirt as the return water to the pool diminishes and then I make a backwash and there is then no fine dirt on the bottom for a while.

 

I live in Isaan, Sisaket, and I guess it is the fine dust from the rice fields which settles on my pool bottom.

 

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