DE filter trick to change powder easily ?

[Saanim]

1 hour ago, Chaichara said:

Thank you for the lecture, but it detracts from the fact that this is a pool forum. That's all that former pool professionals are interested in discussing here. People can and do get quickly ill from poorly maintained pool water because it's constantly recycled. It's not a bathtub where you pull the plug and flush the water away after every use. Nor does passing the water through a few grains of crushed glass destroy the unsafe microorganisms.

I am not discussing a bathtub, just debunking a wrong statement of the former swimming pool professional: 

 

Quote

 

  3 hours ago, sappersrest said:

There is no good bacteria in a swimming pool any bacteria is bad for your pool

Bacteria is only good in a sewage works, 

 

And yes, my swimming pool water is constantly recycled (how else do we handle swimming pool water?) with a regular maintaining that, however, does not overdo the chlorine level. The chlorine - as generally known - is not really good for our health.   

 

[Chaichara]

1 hour ago, Saanim said:

I am not discussing a bathtub, just debunking a wrong statement of the former swimming pool professional: 

 

And yes, my swimming pool water is constantly recycled (how else do we handle swimming pool water?) with a regular maintaining that, however, does not overdo the chlorine level. The chlorine - as generally known - is not really good for our health.   

 

Is the bold type strictly necessary? Are you a pool professional? Under what technical terms of reference are you 'debunking' anything? Please provide peer reviewed academic sources.

[Saanim]

30 minutes ago, Chaichara said:

Is the bold type strictly necessary? Are you a pool professional? Under what technical terms of reference are you 'debunking' anything? Please provide peer reviewed academic sources.

Sorry, if the bold type has disturbed you, it's not easy (for me as a non-professional) to get here 2 quotes, so that's how it resulted.

 

No, I am not a pool professional. Is this forum for profis only?

 

Debunking anything? Yes, that's what I did. But if you need a peer reviewed academic sources you have to go to another forum, here is a debate forum, not for scientists. Neither for professionals...????  

 

[Chaichara]

1 minute ago, Saanim said:

Sorry, if the bold type has disturbed you, it's not easy (for me as a non-professional) to get here 2 quotes, so that's how it resulted.

 

No, I am not a pool professional. Is this forum for profis only?

 

Debunking anything? Yes, that's what I did. But if you need a peer reviewed academic sources you have to go to another forum, here is a debate forum, not for scientists. Neither for professionals...????  

 

Many jurisdictions have laws regarding the water quality and sanity of pools for public purposes. These measures are the results of independent scientific studies commissioned by the governments. Some of the more serious pool professionals and companies base their calculations for filtration and disinfection on these reports.  I do. One does not 'debunk' such scientific papers but of course there are plenty of shirt-sleeve pool 'pros' who always want to know better.  What one does in their private pool in the confines of their own back garden is up to them, but genuine pool consultants and companies won't take the risk of spreading dilettantish and possible harmful information. Like car manufacturers, they have a duty to the pubic they serve with their their products and the safety that surrounds them. We don't debunk the criteria for motor vehicle Construction & Use regulations - or do we? Debate that.

[Saanim]

1 hour ago, Chaichara said:

Many jurisdictions have laws regarding the water quality and sanity of pools for public purposes. These measures are the results of independent scientific studies commissioned by the governments. Some of the more serious pool professionals and companies base their calculations for filtration and disinfection on these reports.  I do. One does not 'debunk' such scientific papers but of course there are plenty of shirt-sleeve pool 'pros' who always want to know better.  What one does in their private pool in the confines of their own back garden is up to them, but genuine pool consultants and companies won't take the risk of spreading dilettantish and possible harmful information. Like car manufacturers, they have a duty to the pubic they serve with their their products and the safety that surrounds them. We don't debunk the criteria for motor vehicle Construction & Use regulations - or do we? Debate that.

I do not claim any procedure, I just describe how it works in my pool over 15 years. It's up to everybody's common sense - and his own testing - what is the best for him. 

 

In my beginning years I too have followed many advices by professionals.  Later by my own backyard experience - and by reading other sources - I found that the professionals' advices - always maximalistic - mainly lead to their increased sale, so I had downsized and simplified many of my treatment procedures.  Most of the professional pool forums are owned by pool shops, so the sale of the chemicals and additional equipment - also re-constructions - keep them alive over the years, unlike a sale of pools (how many pools do you buy in one life?).

 

A high level of chlorinated water is not really much healthy for a swimmer even if he/she is not suffering under asthma problems. That is proven by many medical studies (reviewed approved by peers), many can be found by googling. (Even if some are suppressed by strong pool business).  And for kids this was found much more serious.

 

The chlorine vapours (heavier than air) are laying on the water surface. And when there is not much air draft around - and the water is fenced off by a risen edge at the skimmer pools - the only way to dispose the vapours is by the deep breathing of the skimmer ????. 

 

 

 

 

  

 

 

 

 

    

  

[unheard]

2 hours ago, Chaichara said:

What one does in their private pool in the confines of their own back garden is up to them, but genuine pool consultants and companies won't take the risk of spreading dilettantish and possible harmful information. Like car manufacturers, they have a duty to the pubic they serve with their their products and the safety that surrounds them. We don't debunk the criteria for motor vehicle Construction & Use regulations - or do we? Debate that.

I'm sorry, but the only duties the car manufacturers serve are to their shareholders.

I, as anyone else, do respect and actually admire the honest and competent work of any, not just a pool, professional that takes pride of his/her work.

Unfortunately the world is full of the fly-by pros, especially in the pool maintenance business!!!

And you, as an honest Pro (I suspect), are surely aware of many such examples.

Otherwise there would not be no need for a huge online forum (U.S. based) which is full of testimonies of many, many pool owners (new members are still sighing up and then sharing their stories)whose pools have been systematically neglected by the small and BIG U.S. based thus government regulated pool maintenance companies.

 

Check out for yourself:

 

https://www.troublefreepool.com/forums/

 

 

Edited February 5, 2022 by unheard

[sappersrest]

3 hours ago, Saanim said:

I do not claim any procedure, I just describe how it works in my pool over 15 years. It's up to everybody's common sense - and his own testing - what is the best for him. 

correct

[sappersrest]

3 hours ago, Saanim said:

In my beginning years I too have followed many advices by professionals.  Later by my own backyard experience - and by reading other sources - I found that the professionals' advices - always maximalistic - mainly lead to their increased sale, so I had downsized and simplified many of my treatment procedures.  Most of the professional pool forums are owned by pool shops, so the sale of the chemicals and additional equipment - also re-constructions - keep them alive over the years, unlike a sale of pools (how many pools do you buy in one life?).

Again correct can't disagree with that

[sappersrest]

4 hours ago, Saanim said:

A high level of chlorinated water is not really much healthy for a swimmer even if he/she is not suffering under asthma problems. That is proven by many medical studies (reviewed approved by peers), many can be found by googling. (Even if some are suppressed by strong pool business).  And for kids this was found much more serious.

once again  correct but studies apply to indoor pools  the conclusions in most cases were due to incorrect water balance and poor ventilation.

the main cause was a high count of THMS in the atmosphere . not really applicable to outdoor pools.

but can occur with extremely heavy bather loads in poorly managed pools.

[sappersrest]

4 hours ago, Saanim said:

The chlorine vapours (heavier than air) are laying on the water surface. And when there is not much air draft around - and the water is fenced off by a risen edge at the skimmer pools - the only way to dispose the vapours is by the deep breathing of the skimmer ????. 

 

totally incorrect the chlorine smell in badly managed pools is in fact combined chlorines, if you are into google research break point chlorination.

once again in a badly managed pool  stinging eyes and a shortage of breath is down to the formation of  nitrogen tri chloride  (tear gas) a reaction of hypochlous  acid   with is actually the killing agent when chlorine is mixed with water.

use google correctly and it is all  there, most university publish research papers just need to spend a little time.

low levels of chlorine are to be highly recommend if you have the time and a good test kit 1ppm is  ok with a low ph of 7.2 is possible

 

[Bagwain]

19 hours ago, perconrad said:

I have a sandfilter with Zellbrite.

 

Sometimes there is a thin layer of fine dirt on the bottom which the filter do not take.

 

Then I scatter a spoonful of DE in the skimmer basket with the pump running and make a vacuum of the pool.

 

It is then easy to see that the filter now collects the fine dirt as the return water to the pool diminishes and then I make a backwash and there is then no fine dirt on the bottom for a while.

 

I live in Isaan, Sisaket, and I guess it is the fine dust from the rice fields which settles on my pool bottom.

 

The reason you get a better result by adding DE media is because it builds up a bit more pressure which the filter needs to do its job properly! Trouble is that most people think by doing weekly or more backwashing, they will get a better result! Not so. Typical domestic pool will be fine with monthly or even longer till a backwash is required. Or do it with the pressure gauge if it is working! Bather load is also a factor.

[Bagwain]

22 hours ago, Chaichara said:

Correct, Sapparest, and thank you for that, but for years, some of the other participants in this  TV pool forum have a strange habit of totally confusing pool filtration with pool disinfection.  Two entirely different processes even if they (sometimes) take place in the same pump room. Sorry to say, but even some who claim to be pool professionals get it wrong. Are we not already saturated with the constant stream of fantastic/fantasy claims for crushed recycled glass - for example?

You obviously are lacking experience with glass media. I for one don't make fantastic claims. There is a large distintion between recycled plate glass and recycled bottle galss. The later causes more problems than it supposed to solve. My experince with "Recycle Plate Glass" over 6 yrs & Zeolite the previous 8 yrs shows that the former is better!

 

By the way I don't own a shop or sell chemicals. I have been in the industry for 30 yrs, (4 countries) mostly commercial till Thailand. Shops are a headache to say the least! 

[Chaichara]

4 minutes ago, Bagwain said:

You obviously are lacking experience with glass media. I for one don't make fantastic claims.

By the way I don't own a shop or sell chemicals. I have been in the industry for 30 yrs, (4 countries) mostly commercial till Thailand. Shops are a headache to say the least! 

Nothing is obvious, Bagwain. Those of us who have professionally built and serviced hundreds of pools across Europe and Thailand for 50 years have almost certainly accumulated some knowledge - some of us may even be actually technically and and academically qualified to boot, beyond the claims in the manufacturers' brochures. It's already been mentioned that the tone of your comments may not always instill confidence in those who read them.  You may not be actually selling the stuff, but your persistent claims could lead one to assume you have have some kind of vested interest in moving a stockpile of it.

[Bagwain]

1 minute ago, Chaichara said:

Nothing is obvious, Bagwain. Those of us who have professionally built and serviced hundreds of pools across Europe and Thailand for 50 years have almost certainly accumulated some knowledge - some of us may even be actually technically and and academically qualified to boot, beyond the claims in the manufacturers' brochures. It's already been mentioned that the tone of your comments may not always instill confidence in those who read them.  You may not be actually selling the stuff, but your persistent claims could lead one to assume you have have some kind of vested interest in moving a stockpile of it.

You sholdn't assume anything as we know where that leads! By the way no stockpile!

[Chaichara]

17 minutes ago, Bagwain said:

You sholdn't assume...

'Could' is a modal verb.

[Saanim]

15 hours ago, Saanim said:

...

The chlorine vapours (heavier than air) are laying on the water surface. And when there is not much air draft around - and the water is fenced off by a risen edge at the skimmer pools - the only way to dispose the vapours is by the deep breathing of the skimmer ????. 

 

 

 

 

  

 

 

 

 

    

  

Sorry, in my previous post a typo: skimmer = swimmer:

 

Quote

The chlorine vapours (heavier than air) are laying on the water surface. And when there is not much air draft around - and the water is fenced off by a risen edge at the skimmer pools - the only way to dispose the vapours is by the deep breathing of the swimmer 

. 

[Chaichara]

10 minutes ago, Saanim said:

Sorry, in my previous post a typo: skimmer = swimmer:

 

. 

Small indoor pools in poorly ventilated spaces, particularly where a large sliding door-window cannot be fully opened up to the outside, can accumulate very unhealthy levels of chemical residue at face level when bathers are in the water. Fortunately, new technologies are now available for disinfecting pools almost totally avoiding the  use of chlorine or any harsh disinfectants. They are also far more economical.

[sappersrest]

This topic is going way off course now ,I would with respect ask the op to contact the moderater to lock it from further comments

[Chaichara]

5 minutes ago, sappersrest said:

This topic is going way off course now ,I would with respect ask the op to contact the moderater to lock it from further comments

I think this is an excellent idea. I have rarely gotten so involved in such a tedious discussion.

[Saanim]

11 hours ago, sappersrest said:

totally incorrect the chlorine smell in badly managed pools is in fact combined chlorines, if you are into google research break point chlorination.

once again in a badly managed pool  stinging eyes and a shortage of breath is down to the formation of  nitrogen tri chloride  (tear gas) a reaction of hypochlous  acid   with is actually the killing agent when chlorine is mixed with water.

use google correctly and it is all  there, most university publish research papers just need to spend a little time.

low levels of chlorine are to be highly recommend if you have the time and a good test kit 1ppm is  ok with a low ph of 7.2 is possible

 

You might be correct, I am no chemical expert. What I just wanted to say that the higher levels of chlorination are better to be avoided (not only by people suffering with eyes/ears problems, asthma, skin). That's why I use sparsely the chlorine - no high percentage and not with the cyanuric acid addition (that is not evaporating together with chlorine, thus causing problems with its higher level rising later).

 

My low chlorine use (not really much detected by my measurement) has the purpose of certain bad germs disposal, not algae disposal, for that I have better and cheaper means.

 

Perhaps the germs disposal is not 100%, why should it? We are confronted (and bombarded) with much higher level of bad bacteria on our every other step outside of our pool, starting by touching a door knob. There are also medical studies proving that the overzealous care to live in a germ-free ambiance leads to a reduced natural protection.

 

And when I use a low chlorine level I do not need to care about pH level that is important only for the optimal chlorine efficacy. And not for the clarity of the water, nor for any unhealthy conditions of the water.

 

         

[unheard]

4 hours ago, Saanim said:

much higher level of bad bacteria on our every other step outside of our pool, starting by touching a door knob.

I think you're mixing two different things.

Do you lick your door knobs at every opportunity?

Do you eat your meat/fish dishes raw?

Do you prefer to drink untreated/unfiltered water?

You might get away with practicing such a diet for a while...

Until it hits you.

 

Here's a much more relevant question:

what is your precise pool water chemistry readings?

You won't know unless you test it with a high quality pool water testing kit, on the regular bases.

And if you don't know for sure, what else, beside you, is swimming in your pool, then the only solution is to maintain an appropriate level of free chlorine.

You might say: why to worry, I'm the only user..

How do you know who or what might invite itself for a little swim into your pool in the middle of the night?... Some day...

Edited February 6, 2022 by unheard

[unheard]

4 hours ago, Chaichara said:

Fortunately, new technologies are now available for disinfecting pools almost totally avoiding the  use of chlorine or any harsh disinfectants. They are also far more economical.

Can you please elaborate on those?

I'm not aware of any new tech that can safely and economically displace chlorine as the main disinfectant besides UV, Ozone and Oxygen that might sound cool and sexy but the underlying problem is that neither provides an easily controlled and/or economical disinfectant solution , comparable to chlorine in convenience and cost.

[Chaichara]

2 minutes ago, unheard said:

the underlying problem is that neither provides an easily controlled and/or economical disinfectant solution , comparable to chlorine in convenience and cost.

Please quote your scientific/academic source.

Nobody is talking about anything 'cool'  or  'sexy'. World class developers don't waste R&D and setting up manufacturing plant in their factories on modern systems for fun, especially when they save effort and money for end users and can outsell traditional, clumsy, hard-to-manage chlorination.

[Bagwain]

48 minutes ago, Chaichara said:

Please quote your scientific/academic source.

Nobody is talking about anything 'cool'  or  'sexy'. World class developers don't waste R&D and setting up manufacturing plant in their factories on modern systems for fun, especially when they save effort and money for end users and can outsell traditional, clumsy, hard-to-manage chlorination.

You need to get of your "High Horse"

"Unheard" made a valid point!

Why don't you prove him wrong?

Maybe you have some new befangled Tech that is better and you would like to share & flog? Bahahahaha

So far you have only provided one graph pertaining to glass. Which by the way was not specific to the type of glass. 

Sounds like you are full of your own wonder of academia!

 

[Chaichara]

12 minutes ago, Bagwain said:

You need to get of your "High Horse"

"Unheard" made a valid point!

Why don't you prove him wrong?

Maybe you have some new befangled Tech that is better and you would like to share & flog? Bahahahaha

So far you have only provided one graph pertaining to glass. Which by the way was not specific to the type of glass. 

Sounds like you are full of your own wonder of academia!

 

The difference is, I'm not  a shill, and I have nothing  to  'flog'.

[Bagwain]

1 minute ago, Chaichara said:

The difference is, I'm not  a shill, and I have nothing  to  'flog'.

Did you mean she or shim?

[Bagwain]

6 hours ago, sappersrest said:

This topic is going way off course now ,I would with respect ask the op to contact the moderater to lock it from further comments

Yep as the brainiac keyboard warriors at getting adjitated!

[Chaichara]

9 minutes ago, Bagwain said:

Did you mean she or shim?

I meant 'shill', quite clearly, 'shill'.

[unheard]

1 hour ago, Chaichara said:

World class developers don't waste R&D and setting up manufacturing plant in their factories on modern systems for fun, especially when they save effort and money for end users and can outsell traditional, clumsy, hard-to-manage chlorination.

I've asked you to please share some info on those "modern systems".

 

And the following question would be, then why in the world anyone continue to use the "clumsy, hard-to-manage chlorination" if those new systems can do everything better and "save effort and money"?

I've mentioned a few newer technologies that are well known and readily available for purchase, yet somehow just about every private pool owner everywhere in the world continues to use chlorine as a main disinfectant.

Edited February 6, 2022 by unheard

[Bagwain]

16 minutes ago, unheard said:

I've asked you to please share some info on those "modern systems".

 

And the following question would be, then why in the world anyone continue to use the "clumsy, hard-to-manage chlorination" if those new systems can do everything better and "save effort and money"?

I've mentioned a few newer technologies that are well known and readily available for purchase, yet somehow just about every private pool owner everywhere in the world continues to use chlorine as a main disinfectant.

PuraPool offers a "Oxy Minerale" system that uses pink Himalayan salts! Great for the skin as well. 

Look up Analyte!

Natures best disinfection!

Very popular system!

By the way "Chaichara" We are autherised dealers before the shark comes out in you! ????

Edited February 6, 2022 by Bagwain