cleopatra2 Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 31 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said: My point is: Is he guilty only because he is a sleazebag? And about victim blaming: Sometimes I really don't want to hear that word "victim" in this kind of situation again. If someone attacks a woman and rapes her and hurts her then she is clearly a victim. If a girl or a woman decides she wants to make a lot of money by visiting rich guys I don't pretend they are victims. She didn't have to visit him. She could have walked away anytime. That is the issue. Guffrie claims that she was told to sleep with Andrew. She feared the consequences of not complying 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJRS1301 Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 6 minutes ago, cleopatra2 said: That is the issue. Guffrie claims that she was told to sleep with Andrew. She feared the consequences of not complying I am not sure there was any sleeping as such 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post OneMoreFarang Posted February 17, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted February 17, 2022 8 minutes ago, cleopatra2 said: That is the issue. Guffrie claims that she was told to sleep with Andrew. She feared the consequences of not complying Consequences like what? No luxury life anymore? Having to work all day to make a little money. The horror! That reminds me of a prostitute who I talked to many years ago in a country far away. I asked her why she doesn't do another job. And she said something like: Another job like what? Maybe work as a cleaner? I would work hard for a whole day. Or I can just open my legs and make the some money in half an hour. I understood her point. It seems Giuffre had to make a similar decision. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneMoreFarang Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 8 minutes ago, RJRS1301 said: I am not sure there was any sleeping as such Maybe she told him: Wake me up when your done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cleopatra2 Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 8 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said: Consequences like what? No luxury life anymore? Having to work all day to make a little money. The horror! That reminds me of a prostitute who I talked to many years ago in a country far away. I asked her why she doesn't do another job. And she said something like: Another job like what? Maybe work as a cleaner? I would work hard for a whole day. Or I can just open my legs and make the some money in half an hour. I understood her point. It seems Giuffre had to make a similar decision. Andrew's legal team decided it was best to negotatiate a settlement rather than test it in court. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJRS1301 Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 5 minutes ago, cleopatra2 said: Andrew's legal team decided it was best to negotatiate a settlement rather than test it in court. And Mummys team said, how much to make this tiresome matter disaapear, I have JUbillee to celebrate, and this tiresome son is again making a mess of things. How much , let me know 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritManToo Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 (edited) 5 hours ago, ozimoron said: I'm just saying that innocent people cooperate with the FBI when asked, especially royalty. Nobody in their right mind co-operates with the police. If they talk to you, they're looking to charge you. As my brief used to say ....... "Don't speak to the police unless I'm with you, and when I arrive, tell them you weren't there" Reason not to speak to the police without your brief present, they might lie and say you confessed. Reason to tell them you weren't there, being there is 50% of the way to proving guilt. Edited February 17, 2022 by BritManToo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chomper Higgot Posted February 17, 2022 Author Share Posted February 17, 2022 1 hour ago, OneMoreFarang said: Consequences like what? No luxury life anymore? Having to work all day to make a little money. The horror! That reminds me of a prostitute who I talked to many years ago in a country far away. I asked her why she doesn't do another job. And she said something like: Another job like what? Maybe work as a cleaner? I would work hard for a whole day. Or I can just open my legs and make the some money in half an hour. I understood her point. It seems Giuffre had to make a similar decision. Giuffre was not legally competent to make any such decision. This has been explained to you many times. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneMoreFarang Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 1 minute ago, Chomper Higgot said: Giuffre was not legally competent to make any such decision. This has been explained to you many times. That is what you tell us is the American law. But she made those decisions - competent or incompetent or whatever. All of us made decisions in our lives. I.e. when I was 15 and even younger it was my decision which other people (mostly teenager) I wanted to see. I also decided which people I avoided. But that was not in America and by now I know that America is somehow different... 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozimoron Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 1 hour ago, OneMoreFarang said: That is what you tell us is the American law. But she made those decisions - competent or incompetent or whatever. All of us made decisions in our lives. I.e. when I was 15 and even younger it was my decision which other people (mostly teenager) I wanted to see. I also decided which people I avoided. But that was not in America and by now I know that America is somehow different... Stop pretending that somehow what he did wasn't illegal in the UK as well as the USA and just about every country in the world. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lacessit Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 3 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said: My point is: Is he guilty only because he is a sleazebag? And about victim blaming: Sometimes I really don't want to hear that word "victim" in this kind of situation again. If someone attacks a woman and rapes her and hurts her then she is clearly a victim. If a girl or a woman decides she wants to make a lot of money by visiting rich guys I don't pretend they are victims. She didn't have to visit him. She could have walked away anytime. No, he is guilty because he has previous form as someone who can't keep it in his pants, and Epstein had a well-established record of grooming and coercing underage girls. She was not competent in the eyes of the law to have sex, so she is a victim, and no amount of semantics from you will change that fact. You expect me to believe when he was with her - the girl he denied ever meeting - they just played tiddlywinks? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liverpool Lou Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 7 hours ago, Sparktrader said: 9 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said: But she wasn't underage for sexual consent in New York or the US Virgin Islands, either! 6 months over Yes, so not underaged, as I said. Six months or six years, it makes no difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liverpool Lou Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 8 hours ago, cleopatra2 said: 9 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said: Get your relevance (and your understanding of what the legal case was) straight, there was no criminal case, the woman was suing him in a civil case. When she first, allegedly, had sex with him in London she was, at 17, i.e. over the age of consent in the UK. When she subsequently, allegedly, did the same thing in the US she was over 18 and there was no allegation of prostitution being an element in the case against Andrew. Prince Andrew has not been accused of trafficking her as evidenced by there being no criminal charges against him, either here or in the US. Expand You are confusing compliance with consent. No, I am not confusing anything. I am not arguing " compliance" or "consent", I'm stating that she was over the age of consent in the UK, and the US, when she had her escapades with Prince Andrew, that's all. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liverpool Lou Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 9 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said: 9 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said: 1. Andrew wasn't being sued for participating in paid sex so the age of consent for that is irrelevant. 2. No one ever accused him of statutory rape. Allegations against him are of criminal sexual activity with a minor. There are no such criminal charges against him. And the civil case is now over so there are no allegations now! She was over the age of consent in the UK (and the US) when she was, allegedly, involved with Prince Andrew. You can continue to bang on about her "being a minor" at the time for as long as you like but she was a "minor" (your choice of word) above the age of consent for sex and fully capable to give that consent. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozimoron Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 1 minute ago, Liverpool Lou said: There are no such criminal charges against him. And the civil case is now over so there are no allegations now! She was over the age of consent in the UK (and the US) when she was, allegedly, involved with Prince Andrew. You can continue to bang on about her "being a minor" at the time for as long as you like but she was a "minor" (your choice of word) above the age of consent for sex and fully capable to give that consent. You're ignoring the fact that she was compensated for sex (money changed hands) and that made it illegal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liverpool Lou Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 Just now, ozimoron said: 2 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said: There are no such criminal charges against him. And the civil case is now over so there are no allegations now! She was over the age of consent in the UK (and the US) when she was, allegedly, involved with Prince Andrew. You can continue to bang on about her "being a minor" at the time for as long as you like but she was a "minor" (your choice of word) above the age of consent for sex and fully capable to give that consent. Expand You're ignoring the fact that she was compensated for sex (money changed hands) and that made it illegal. Really? Where was it stated that Prince Andrew compensated her for sex? You're ignoring that rather relevant point and you're also ignoring the fact that he was not charged with having paid for sex with her, in fact he was never charged with anything criminal. By the way, paying someone for sex is not illegal in the UK. Soliciting for sex is, pimping is, running a brothel is, curb crawling is but paying for sex is perfectly legal (except in N Ireland). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liverpool Lou Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 9 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said: 9 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said: No one is the civil case has been accused of paying for sex with her nor taking her across state lines for paid sex! It is not necessary to be the person who trafficked the victim to be accused of a crime relating to the trafficking. Jesus Christ...he wasn't accused of any criminal activity, in any jurisdiction! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozimoron Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said: Really? Where was it stated that Prince Andrew compensated her for sex? You're ignoring that rather relevant point and you're also ignoring the fact that he was not charged with having paid for sex with her, in fact he was never charged with anything criminal. By the way, paying someone for sex is not illegal in the UK. Soliciting for sex is, pimping is, running a brothel is, curb crawling is but paying for sex is perfectly legal (except in N Ireland). Do you really believe she received no financial benefit from a billionaire (epstein) and a millionaire who was more than twice her age? Edited February 17, 2022 by ozimoron 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liverpool Lou Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 9 hours ago, ozimoron said: 9 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said: 1. Andrew wasn't being sued for participating in paid sex so the age of consent for that is irrelevant. 2. No one ever accused him of statutory rape. Really? Then what was the complaint? It was a civil case in which he was not sued for paying for sex, nor was he sued for statutory rape, she was not under the age of consent. Try reading up about it, I think it's been in the news quite a bit. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneMoreFarang Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 1 hour ago, ozimoron said: Stop pretending that somehow what he did wasn't illegal in the UK as well as the USA and just about every country in the world. How many guys do you know who (possibly) had sex with a 17 year old girl maybe 20 years ago? And how many of them were ever prosecuted for that? My answers are: many and 0 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liverpool Lou Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 2 minutes ago, ozimoron said: Do you really believe she received no financial benefit from a billionaire (epstein) and a millionaire who was more than twice her age? It doesn't matter what I, or anyone else believes, what you refer to was not in the civil suit, neither was he charged with it (or anything else, come to that!). That is what I am commenting about! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozimoron Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 2 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said: How many guys do you know who (possibly) had sex with a 17 year old girl maybe 20 years ago? And how many of them were ever prosecuted for that? My answers are: many and 0 Totally irrelevant isn't it? And the answer for me is none. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneMoreFarang Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 1 hour ago, Lacessit said: No, he is guilty because he has previous form as someone who can't keep it in his pants, and Epstein had a well-established record of grooming and coercing underage girls. She was not competent in the eyes of the law to have sex, so she is a victim, and no amount of semantics from you will change that fact. You expect me to believe when he was with her - the girl he denied ever meeting - they just played tiddlywinks? So you live according to: he is guilty until he can prove that he didn't do it. And how can he prove it? Basically he can't. Interesting concept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozimoron Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said: It doesn't matter what I, or anyone else believes, what you refer to was not in the civil suit, neither was he charged with it (or anything else, come to that!). That is what I am commenting about! Ms Giuffre, who was previously known as Virginia Roberts, claimed she was the victim of sex trafficking and abuse by financier Epstein from the age of 16. Epstein died in prison in 2019 while awaiting a sex trafficking trial. She said part of the abuse saw her lent out to powerful men, including Prince Andrew, who is the third child of the Queen and ninth in line to the throne. https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-60393843 So this supposedly innocent man allowed his career and fortune be ruined and the royal reputation forever sullied rather than stand up in court and allow the evidence to be aired? How gullible do you need to be to believe that? Edited February 17, 2022 by ozimoron 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liverpool Lou Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 9 hours ago, ozimoron said: Bottom line is that he wouldn't have kissed googbye to 15 large if he was telling the truth and we know he lied about not meeting her. £15m? Says who? "We know he lied about not meeting her"? Who the duck is "we"? You don't. You may want to think that but you definitely do not "know" that. Didn't he actually say that he didn't remember meeting her? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneMoreFarang Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 10 minutes ago, ozimoron said: Do you really believe she received no financial benefit from a billionaire (epstein) and a millionaire who was more than twice her age? Does this mean that any women who stays with a rich guy and has sex with him is a prostitute? Or how about women who are married and have sex and then get divorced and received a lot of money? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozimoron Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 1 minute ago, Liverpool Lou said: £15m? Says who? "We know he lied about not meeting her"? Who the duck is "we"? You don't. You may want to think that but you definitely do not "know" that. Didn't he actually say that he didn't remember meeting her? Right, who would? A girl less than half his age flies from the US to meet him courtesy of a billionaire friend and it slipped his memory? Sheesh. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozimoron Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 2 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said: Does this mean that any women who stays with a rich guy and has sex with him is a prostitute? Or how about women who are married and have sex and then get divorced and received a lot of money? Irrelevant, she didn't marry him. My point is that it stretches credulity to think she wasn't compensated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liverpool Lou Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 4 minutes ago, ozimoron said: 9 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said: It doesn't matter what I, or anyone else believes, what you refer to was not in the civil suit, neither was he charged with it (or anything else, come to that!). That is what I am commenting about! Ms Giuffre, who was previously known as Virginia Roberts, claimed she was the victim of sex trafficking and abuse by financier Epstein from the age of 16. Epstein died in prison in 2019 while awaiting a sex trafficking trial. She said part of the abuse saw her lent out to powerful men, including Prince Andrew, who is the third child of the Queen and ninth in line to the throne. https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-60393843 You're arguing that he paid her for sex and you back up that uncorroborated assertion with a link that does not mention Prince Andrew paying her for sex, Thank you and well done! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneMoreFarang Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 1 minute ago, ozimoron said: Right, who would? A girl less than half his age flies from the US to meet him courtesy of a billionaire friend and it slipped his memory? Sheesh. How many girls would love to travel in a private jet half around the world to meet a prince and have sex with him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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