Building a new house in Isaan

[Encid]

The steel roof for the raw water storage area has also been delivered and is being erected.

 

 

 

[Encid]

The 2" PVC ring main for the raw water supply has been buried around the pond and has 1/2" risers and taps located at each corner.

Everything has been pressure tested and no leaks found and no pump cycles after all the taps were turned off

 

This will make life easier for the family to water their garden plants and also provides a convenient location to fill the water storage bin in the hong naam.

 

If, at some stage in the future, we decide to keep the hong naam, we will make a more permanent solution that will include a hard-piped western style toilet complete with bum gun and wash basin and proper septic tank... at present it is a simple squat toilet only and a soakaway.

 

As you can see from the water level in the pond FIL has not been using the sub pump to top it up... he has already cleared out most of the fish and will refill it and re-stock it once the building work is complete.

 

 

 

 

 

[Encid]

When my niece sent me her photos of the build last night I noticed something that did not look right... the window opening between the inside kitchen and the Thai kitchen was in the middle of the wall between 2 columns, not as I remembered it to be on the drawings.

 

 

So I checked the CAD drawings, and sure enough it was located incorrectly... it should have been located hard up against the column.

 

 

I contacted the builder via LINE and told him about the problem, but asked him to do nothing until I had had time to look at the issue in CAD and maybe come up with a workaround.

 

I fiddled with it a bit this morning and came up with this arrangement for the Thai Kitchen reflecting the new window location (which would actually work better than the original layout), and sent it back to our builder.

 

 

Within minutes he sent me back the following photo... the window opening had now been relocated back into the proper position by his people on site.

 

 

Total time from notification of problem to rectification took only 90 minutes!

Just another positive about working with AAC block walls!

 

I will stick with the new arrangement for the Thai kitchen though (after re-centering the sinks underneath the window opening) because it really does work better.

[Muhendis]

1 hour ago, Encid said:

Just another positive about working with AAC block walls!

I wish I could enjoy some of those positives.

I've been chasing around all over the place trying to get 100 off 75 x 200 x 600. I can't find any in stock except DoHome who supply 200 minimum quantity.

[sometimewoodworker]

55 minutes ago, Muhendis said:

I wish I could enjoy some of those positives.

I've been chasing around all over the place trying to get 100 off 75 x 200 x 600. I can't find any in stock except DoHome who supply 200 minimum quantity.

See if anyone nearby is using them and you may be able to do a deal

[Muhendis]

2 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

See if anyone nearby is using them and you may be able to do a deal

Thanks, good idea, but all the building work around here is conventional concrete blocks with middle bits missing.

If I get 200 from DoHome your welcome to make an offer for 100 of them.

[Muhendis]

21 hours ago, Muhendis said:

Thanks, good idea, but all the building work around here is conventional concrete blocks with middle bits missing.

If I get 200 from DoHome your welcome to make an offer for 100 of them.

Went to DoHome today and was told that well worn phrase..........No Have

The girl did at least say "maybe next week" ☹️

[Encid]

A couple of weeks later and things are progressing albeit much slower than before.

 

Some of the columns have been extended a bit to provide the support necessary for the facia blockwork, and the supporting RC roof beams are being formed and poured in-situ.

 

The facia will conceal a sloping BlueScope roof and gutter similar to this:

 

 

 

Not an ideal situation as it is time-consuming work with the associated access (and safety) issues of working at heights.

 

But... it is getting there.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Encid]

A couple of days later and the roof support steel is being erected...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Encid]

We have had quite a few discussions about the gutters... how big they should be, how deep, what drain sizes, how many drains there should be etc.

 

Taking into account how heavy the rain can be in Isaan at certain times is a challenge for a concealed sloping roof, and I'm hopeful that our design can handle the torrential and extended deluges that we can expect from a tropical storm or the remains of a cyclone.

 

Here is the upper roof level gutter:

 

 

And here is the lower level gutter:

 

 

And this is the principle of design:

 

 

 

My builder's original plan was to have 4" PVC drain outlets as follows:

 

 

But as that upper roof gutter is 12m long I was not convinced that it could handle a tropical deluge without overflowing, so I changed the number of outlets as follows:

 

 

I am not overly concerned if the lower level gutter overflows (although I'd prefer that it doesn't), as that is covering the external deck area and the Thai kitchen.

 

In any case, the overflow will be directed away from the entrance and exit doors to the house.

 

[Muhendis]

Don't forget to leave plenty of space for the birds nests.

[MJCM]

8 minutes ago, Muhendis said:

Don't forget to leave plenty of space for the birds nests.

Yep ideal breeding grounds for pigeons 

[Will B Good]

22 hours ago, Encid said:

We have had quite a few discussions about the gutters... how big they should be, how deep, what drain sizes, how many drains there should be etc.

 

Taking into account how heavy the rain can be in Isaan at certain times is a challenge for a concealed sloping roof, and I'm hopeful that our design can handle the torrential and extended deluges that we can expect from a tropical storm or the remains of a cyclone.

 

Here is the upper roof level gutter:

 

 

And here is the lower level gutter:

 

 

And this is the principle of design:

 

 

 

My builder's original plan was to have 4" PVC drain outlets as follows:

 

 

But as that upper roof gutter is 12m long I was not convinced that it could handle a tropical deluge without overflowing, so I changed the number of outlets as follows:

 

 

I am not overly concerned if the lower level gutter overflows (although I'd prefer that it doesn't), as that is covering the external deck area and the Thai kitchen.

 

In any case, the overflow will be directed away from the entrance and exit doors to the house.

 

Read an interesting article the other day by a housing inspector in the US......he said the single biggest mistake people make is installing guttering and drain channels for rain water (where there is no underground drainage system).

 

He said the last thing you want to do is to constrain and funnel the rainwater......just let it drain naturally from the roof directly to the ground.........which is what we did.

 

Seems to work fine.......at least where you have large eves, as you tend to in Thai designed houses.

 

 

Edited May 3, 2023 by Will B Good

[Encid]

5 hours ago, Muhendis said:

Don't forget to leave plenty of space for the birds nests.

No thanks!

 

The BlueScope metal steel roof will be 5cm thick PU foam coated, with a PVC foil/metal sheet facing underneath.

 

 

The ends of the sheets (both high and low) will be covered by sheet metal and fixed in place by rivets  and sealed with silicone so birds (and other rodents) cannot make their way inside the PU foam.

 

The gutter design is such that the metal sheet will be formed so that it fits under the BlueScope metal steel roof, and sealed with silicone.

 

 

Appropriately formed sheet metal flashing will be installed along the non-gutter sides of the roof and also sealed with silicone.

 

 

 

And if birds do become a problem at some time in the future we could always install these along the length of the gutter(s): 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Will B Good said:

He said the last thing you want to do is to constrain and funnel the rainwater......just let it drain naturally from the roof directly to the ground.........which is what we did.

I agree 100%, and that is what we have done with our current terracotta tiled hip roofed house in Najomtien, but this roof is hidden behind an AAC block façade so gutters are mandatory.

And... we have no eaves!

 

As I said earlier, I have had a lot of discussions with my builder about gutters and roof drainage, and I think (and hope) that we have come up with a design that is practical and effective... time will tell. 

 

I am still interested to hear thoughts and comments though... we have time to change the design if someone comes up with a brilliant alternative!

 

[sometimewoodworker]

5 hours ago, Will B Good said:

Read an interesting article the other day by a housing inspector in the US......he said the single biggest mistake people make is installing guttering and drain channels for rain water (where there is no underground drainage system).

That is one view point.

We have gutters, we don’t have an underground drainage system, we prefer not to have an area around the house to avoid. Our gutters direct the water into the garden and pool.

5 hours ago, Will B Good said:

He said the last thing you want to do is to constrain and funnel the rainwater......just let it drain naturally from the roof directly to the ground.........which is what we did.

Again that is one view point, others disagree, as do we

 

You can choose to wear shoes without socks as a fashion and finance statement and to show that you can afford new ones when they start to stink. 
 

your choice

 

5 hours ago, Will B Good said:

Seems to work fine.......at least where you have large eves, as you tend to in Thai designed houses.

Your house, your design, your money. That you are happy is good enough.

[unheard]

5 hours ago, Will B Good said:

He said the last thing you want to do is to constrain and funnel the rainwater......just let it drain naturally from the roof directly to the ground.........which is what we did.

And he's entitled to his opinion....

Gutters are optional in the areas of very low precipitation.

Was he specifically referred to those areas?

[Muhendis]

When I wrote my birds nest comments I was thinking of the downpipes.

I have a very long bamboo pole at the ready for such events.

Being as how I'm a kind hearted kind of a fellow I wait until any such nesting birds are away.

They don't like it up 'em.

[firewight]

4 hours ago, Encid said:

The gutter design is such that the metal sheet will be formed so that it fits under the BlueScope metal steel roof, and sealed with silicone.

 

 

 

 

Any plans to collect the water for use in the future?

FYI love this thread, its great!

[HighPriority]

5 hours ago, Encid said:

No thanks!

 

The BlueScope metal steel roof will be 5cm thick PU foam coated, with a PVC foil/metal sheet facing underneath.

 

 

The ends of the sheets (both high and low) will be covered by sheet metal and fixed in place by rivets  and sealed with silicone so birds (and other rodents) cannot make their way inside the PU foam.

 

The gutter design is such that the metal sheet will be formed so that it fits under the BlueScope metal steel roof, and sealed with silicone.

 

 

Appropriately formed sheet metal flashing will be installed along the non-gutter sides of the roof and also sealed with silicone.

 

 

 

And if birds do become a problem at some time in the future we could always install these along the length of the gutter(s): 

 

 

 

I agree 100%, and that is what we have done with our current terracotta tiled hip roofed house in Najomtien, but this roof is hidden behind an AAC block façade so gutters are mandatory.

And... we have no eaves!

 

As I said earlier, I have had a lot of discussions with my builder about gutters and roof drainage, and I think (and hope) that we have come up with a design that is practical and effective... time will tell. 

 

I am still interested to hear thoughts and comments though... we have time to change the design if someone comes up with a brilliant alternative!

 

In Oz I’ve got an old shed 16m x 16.5m with a hipped roof, each side has 4 x 100mm pvc downpipes that feed to 2 runs of pipe that feed a 275,000lt tank.

I haven’t seen any overflowing of gutters. 
I also have a “U” shaped perforated stainless steel leaf guard in the guttering.

I think you will be fine with your proposed roof drainage.

[HighPriority]

2 hours ago, unheard said:

And he's entitled to his opinion....

Gutters are optional in the areas of very low precipitation.

Was he specifically referred to those areas?

Where I live in Darwin Australia we get 1600mm of rainfall in 6 months and most of it in December, January and February.

Traditionally Darwin houses didn’t have gutters, that’s changing somewhat.

Gutters and downpipes concentrate the flow of water and in times of heavy rain can cause significant erosion, it’s not rocket science to contour the land to avoid ponding from a gutter less roof shedding water.

The biggest drag of no gutters is the elevated houses in Darwin where the drip line is directly over the stairs… ????????‍♂️

[MJCM]

 

they don’t work one bit, the birds will make their nest in between the spikes. Been there done that

[couchpotato]

3 minutes ago, MJCM said:

 

they don’t work one bit, the birds will make their nest in between the spikes. Been there done that

Also been there done that..useless.

Last year I renovated our apartments, and also installed all new guttering (over 100m).  Laid mesh over the gutters for 2 reasons.

1) Birds can sit/stand there, but can't make nests..any bird<deleted> on top of the mesh is mostly washed away when it rains.

2) Also stops leaves accumulating in the gutters, and as the apartments are 3 floors high, the wind normally just blows leaves away.

 

This idea has worked very well.

[Will B Good]

17 hours ago, unheard said:

And he's entitled to his opinion....

Gutters are optional in the areas of very low precipitation.

Was he specifically referred to those areas?

No idea to be honest.....I was just taken by surprise to read what he was saying........................but for our house, in our situation, it made eminent sense........frequent torrential rain in the wet season with no surface water drainage system available. 

[Encid]

20 hours ago, HighPriority said:

I think you will be fine with your proposed roof drainage.

Thank you.

 

19 hours ago, HighPriority said:

Where I live in Darwin Australia...

I have worked for a couple of years in Darwin and also a few in Nhulunbuy so I know what top end weather is like... I was working in Darwin during Cyclone Marcus in 2018... unbelievable that despite all the damage nobody was killed.

 

Yes, Isaan weather can be very similar to the NT... but I think that the humidity here in Thailand is much higher and lasts longer.

[Encid]

21 hours ago, firewight said:

Any plans to collect the water for use in the future?

FYI love this thread, its great!

Thank you... I think that it's great too!

We can air opinions and ideas and as we are in the building stage you can see the actual progress too.

My family and friends overseas also like to read this topic to see what we're up to.

 

No immediate plans to do any rain water harvesting, although it might be a future project.

 

A lot depends on the future crops that we are going to try on the farm... with a plentiful aquifer supplying reasonably uncontaminated ground water I don't see an immediate need for rain water harvesting.

[Encid]

22 hours ago, Muhendis said:

When I wrote my birds nest comments I was thinking of the downpipes.

I have a very long bamboo pole at the ready for such events.

Being as how I'm a kind hearted kind of a fellow I wait until any such nesting birds are away.

They don't like it up 'em.

You are a nice guy hey?

 

One of my neighbours in our moobaan uses an Airsoft BB gun like this to keep the flying rats away... 

It is pretty accurate but not deadly.

 

Our nickname for him is "Rambo" 

 

 

Disclaimer: I do not and will not ever condone "Rambo's" behaviour... but he certainly enjoys it. 

 

[Encid]

6 hours ago, couchpotato said:

Also been there done that..useless.

Last year I renovated our apartments, and also installed all new guttering (over 100m).  Laid mesh over the gutters for 2 reasons.

1) Birds can sit/stand there, but can't make nests..any bird<deleted> on top of the mesh is mostly washed away when it rains.

2) Also stops leaves accumulating in the gutters, and as the apartments are 3 floors high, the wind normally just blows leaves away.

 

This idea has worked very well.

Great idea! 

 

What sort of mesh did you use?

Metal? Plastic?

 

[Muhendis]

3 minutes ago, Encid said:

You are a nice guy hey?

Depends who you ask ............????............????

[Encid]

5 hours ago, Will B Good said:

No idea to be honest.....I was just taken by surprise to read what he was saying........................but for our house, in our situation, it made eminent sense........frequent torrential rain in the wet season with no surface water drainage system available. 

In our situation I intend to initially make a spoon drain next to our access road (yet to be built) and direct the runoff water towards the farm.

I want to keep surface runoff and roof drain water well away from our retaining wall... just send it off in another direction.

[couchpotato]

9 minutes ago, Encid said:

Great idea! 

 

What sort of mesh did you use?

Metal? Plastic?

 

A type of nylon. Can get in various thickness. Very strong and I believe not a problem with the sun.