Cars with 2.0L engines and up

[Max Williams]

I've been looking around. It seems that all cars with a 2.0L engine or up are "imports" that's are overpriced or old cars with engine swaps. I'm from America and I'm looking for something like the Lexus is300, bmw 328i, Honda civic type r/s, it something a long those lines. I can't imagine how weak anything smaller than a 2.0 is. Am I blind or is the 1 million baht 328i a good deal? Please let me know so I can lower my expectations, thank you. 

[KhunLA]

Most Thais are too intelligent & practical, and realize, a larger engine, doesn't necessarily mean better performance.

 

When you compare specs, and fuel economy, you'll agree.  The extra spent is usually just for show vehicles and options, you probably won't use after the 1st month.   Especially if speed is your quest, as speed limits are 30 - 60 - 90 - 120.  any 1.5 will do that, and haul around a load.

 

Larger engine may provide more torque, but not much more HP.

Edited March 23, 2022 by KhunLA

[Max Williams]

56 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Most Thais are too intelligent & practical, and realize, a larger engine, doesn't necessarily mean better performance.

 

When you compare specs, and fuel economy, you'll agree.  The extra spent is usually just for show vehicles and options, you probably won't use after the 1st month.   Especially if speed is your quest, as speed limits are 30 - 60 - 90 - 120.  any 1.5 will do that, and haul around a load.

 

Larger engine may provide more torque, but not much more HP.

I agree. Speed isn't what I'm after. It's instant torque. Turbo is fine, I own a 1jz swapped E36. The lag of turbo and lack of torque from the smaller engines isn't for me. I wouldn't mind getting a regular 2.0 civic or gr Yaris, but even those are crazy expensive. As for economy, that's more related to your foot than the car. I've never been one to care much for it. I like to enjoy what I drive. I know I'm too used to the American market, just looking what's out there. 

 

I'd say the perfect daily for me would be inline or v 6 3.0 RWD. Or even 4 cylinder turbo 2.0. 

[KhunLA]

3 minutes ago, Max Williams said:

I agree. Speed isn't what I'm after. It's instant torque. Turbo is fine, I own a 1jz swapped E36. The lag of turbo and lack of torque from the smaller engines isn't for me. I wouldn't mind getting a regular 2.0 civic or gr Yaris, but even those are crazy expensive. As for economy, that's more related to your foot than the car. I've never been one to care much for it. I like to enjoy what I drive. I know I'm too used to the American market, just looking what's out there. 

 

I'd say the perfect daily for me would be inline or v 6 3.0 RWD. Or even 4 cylinder turbo 2.0. 

Might want to consider one of the hybrids (GWM or MG), or straight up EV (again ... GWM or MG), if not needing the range.

[Lacessit]

Not many large engines around now, turbo-charging 1.0 to 1.5 litre capacity seems to be the go. Unless the OP wants a Isuzu or Hilux.

An older Mitsubishi Diamante or Nissan Cefiro might fill the bill. A couple of the Honda Accords, but getting expensive plus how complicated is a ten-speed auto?

[marin]

2 hours ago, Max Williams said:

Am I blind or is the 1 million baht 328i a good deal? Please let me know so I can lower my expectations, thank you. 

1.6 million baht new.

[KhunLA]

Quote

Am I blind or is the 1 million baht 328i a good deal? Please let me know so I can lower my expectations

Depends how old it is, but definitely not new.   What's your budget, 1 mill + a bit more, then definitely look at the specs of the GWM & MG.

 

Haval H6 is looking really nice  .. ฿1.2 ish mill +/- depending which model.

"1.5L engine with variable geometry turbocharger and electric motor give maximum power 243 HP and maximum torque 530 Nm"

Edited March 23, 2022 by KhunLA

[Lacessit]

4 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Depends how old it is, but definitely not new.   What's your budget, 1 mill + a bit more, then definitely look at the specs of the GWM & MG.

 

Haval H6 is looking really nice  .. ฿1.2 ish mill +/- depending which model.

"1.5L engine with variable geometry turbocharger and electric motor give maximum power 243 HP and maximum torque 530 Nm"

The big questions with the Chinese brands is how good their after-sales support is going to be, and how durable the vehicles are. They haven't been around long enough to establish the track record the Japanese and Koreans have.

[vinny41]

41 minutes ago, marin said:

1.6 million baht new.

Not in Thailand here is BMW Thailand current price list

No 328I

Cheapest 3 series is the 320d M Sport at 2,519,000

https://www.bmw.co.th/en/topics/price-list.html

[Max Williams]

I definitely would rather German or Japanese. Looking to buy second hand. I don't like buying new cars. 

[KhunLA]

20 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

The big questions with the Chinese brands is how good their after-sales support is going to be, and how durable the vehicles are. They haven't been around long enough to establish the track record the Japanese and Koreans have.

GWM has only been around for 38 yrs

SAIC (MG) only been around for 67 yrs

Both offer excellent warranties & support.

 

The Anti-China sentiment from some folks is simply mind boggling.

 

GWM warranty & service:  https://www.gwm.co.th/aftersales/

... 5 year or 150,000 km quality warranty

... All GWM new vehicle customers will receive the 24/7* roadside assistance service we provide for 5 years

... GWM CARE Service Inclusive (GCSI) 

GWM is ready to take care of all customers. with a labor-free package for mileage-based maintenance* that comes with a new GWM vehicle up to 10 times over 5 years or mileage up to 100,000 kilometers for hybrid vehicles and up to 5 times over 5 years or mileage Not more than 75,000 kilometers for electric vehicles*

Edited March 23, 2022 by KhunLA

[KhunLA]

26 minutes ago, Max Williams said:

I definitely would rather German or Japanese. Looking to buy second hand. I don't like buying new cars. 

If import, new Thai made / assembled here, or Chinese made/assembled here, will be cheaper than 2nd hand EU or Japan, which 1 mill won't be much of a EU or Jap car, unless aged.

[Lacessit]

11 hours ago, KhunLA said:

GWM has only been around for 38 yrs

SAIC (MG) only been around for 67 yrs

Both offer excellent warranties & support.

 

The Anti-China sentiment from some folks is simply mind boggling.

 

GWM warranty & service:  https://www.gwm.co.th/aftersales/

... 5 year or 150,000 km quality warranty

... All GWM new vehicle customers will receive the 24/7* roadside assistance service we provide for 5 years

... GWM CARE Service Inclusive (GCSI) 

GWM is ready to take care of all customers. with a labor-free package for mileage-based maintenance* that comes with a new GWM vehicle up to 10 times over 5 years or mileage up to 100,000 kilometers for hybrid vehicles and up to 5 times over 5 years or mileage Not more than 75,000 kilometers for electric vehicles*

Offering a warranty, and actually doing what it says, are two different things.  GWM is a case in point, as a seaside-dwelling Australian found when his GWM was rusting out after 12 months, due to poor corrosion protection. To make the situation even more farcical, the dealership that refused to honor the warranty was located in the same beach environment. I understand the situation was only resolved in the customer's favor when Australian consumer law was invoked, there are no such laws in Thailand.

 

There's nothing mind-boggling about anti-China sentiment. It's the nation that gave the world a pandemic, and the origins of coronavirus are still unknown because the CCP will not allow an open investigation of the source. It's done some pretty nasty things inside its borders to its minorities, and annexed Tibet. It is building up its military to have a shot at Taiwan. One of the most polluted and polluting countries on the planet, due to its commitment to economic growth at any cost.

 

The CCP started a trade war with Australia as punishment for politicians speaking their minds on human rights abuses. That rebounded badly when items such as lobsters and wine found other markets, making what got to mainland China even more expensive.

 

When Chinese tourism was at its height in Chiang Mai, I learned from several Thai shopkeepers they detested the Chinese. Rude, pushy, forever trying to drive prices down. Crowded out other potential customers.

 

Personally, I've found Chinese to be polite and helpful as individuals. When they are in a pack, they change completely.

 

Perhaps you can enlighten me, what's there to like about China?

[tonray]

16 hours ago, Max Williams said:

I can't imagine how weak anything smaller than a 2.0 is.

You should try driving a 1.0 Turbo or even a 1.5...not waek at all given the weight and nimbleness of the new cars

[Max Williams]

1 minute ago, tonray said:

You should try driving a 1.0 Turbo or even a 1.5...not waek at all given the weight and nimbleness of the new cars

I have driven them. "There's no replacement for displacement" as they say lol. I love light and nimble cars, I have a Toyota FRS in America. I'd love something with the same feel. 

[tonray]

16 hours ago, Max Williams said:

I can't imagine how weak anything smaller than a 2.0 is

 

1 minute ago, Max Williams said:

I have driven them. "There's no replacement for displacement" as they say lol. I love light and nimble cars, I have a Toyota FRS in America. I'd love something with the same feel. 

Then why could you not imangine how weak they are if you had already driven them ?

[Max Williams]

1 minute ago, tonray said:

 

Then why could you not imangine how weak they are if you had already driven them ?

I drive a friend's yaris once. Hardly enough experience. I've never driven a performance oriented small displacement engine. I hear the gr Yaris is a blast with it's 1.6L, but it's twice the price here...

[Lacessit]

6 minutes ago, Max Williams said:

I have driven them. "There's no replacement for displacement" as they say lol. I love light and nimble cars, I have a Toyota FRS in America. I'd love something with the same feel. 

IIRC, there was a Mitsubishi 3000GT on sale somewhere in Bangkok a couple of years ago.

Now THAT'S displacement. Twin turbo, the FRS is a pussy in comparison.

[Max Williams]

Just now, Lacessit said:

IIRC, there was a Mitsubishi 3000GT on sale somewhere in Bangkok a couple of years ago.

Now THAT'S displacement. Twin turbo, the FRS is a pussy in comparison.

Love that car lol. FRS is slow for sure, but it's a fun car to drive. 3000GT is a sexy beast.

[Lacessit]

17 minutes ago, tonray said:

You should try driving a 1.0 Turbo or even a 1.5...not waek at all given the weight and nimbleness of the new cars

It's not a turbo, but I love the Mazda 2. Nimble, and the ability to choose auto or manual mode on a torque converter gearbox makes it much better for me than any CVT.

[tonray]

2 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

It's not a turbo, but I love the Mazda 2. Nimble, and the ability to choose auto or manual mode on a torque converter gearbox makes it much better for me than any CVT.

Yeah...GF has one...I like it too...not as much as my SWIFT...but almost

[Max Williams]

1 minute ago, Lacessit said:

It's not a turbo, but I love the Mazda 2. Nimble, and the ability to choose auto or manual mode on a torque converter gearbox makes it much better for me than any CVT.

Oh ya, that's the other thing. I'd love a good old fashion 5 or 6 speed. More fun to drive and where I'm at I don't have to worry about traffic. I'm a DIYer. I've been interested in the Mazdas but I've never worked on one. 

[stereolab]

15 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

It's not a turbo, but I love the Mazda 2. Nimble, and the ability to choose auto or manual mode on a torque converter gearbox makes it much better for me than any CVT.

Go one better, and try the CX-3. 2 liter engine.

[Lacessit]

4 minutes ago, stereolab said:

Go one better, and try the CX-3. 2 liter engine.

Mazda make good cars. So do Mitsubishi, but their marketing arm can't seem to get the message across.

[BKKBike09]

VW Scirocco is long in the tooth now but 2.0 turbo and DSG gearbox is a fine combination. Just a shame its FWD.

 

 

[Lacessit]

5 minutes ago, BKKBike09 said:

VW Scirocco is long in the tooth now but 2.0 turbo and DSG gearbox is a fine combination. Just a shame its FWD.

 

 

You prefer RWD? Each to his own.

The Germans found out in World War II the FWD Citroen was far more nimble in French streets than their RWD Mercs.

[Max Williams]

9 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

You prefer RWD? Each to his own.

The Germans found out in World War II the FWD Citroen was far more nimble in French streets than their RWD Mercs.

Some people, including myself, prefer the push feeling rather than the pull. Also oversteering can be fun lol. 

[Lacessit]

57 minutes ago, Max Williams said:

Some people, including myself, prefer the push feeling rather than the pull. Also oversteering can be fun lol. 

Most of the RWD cars I drove in my younger days  had terminal understeer.

I don't know if anyone remembers the Hillman Imp, a 5 psi change in tire pressures front and back was sufficient to give either understeer or oversteer in bountiful proportions.

[BKKBike09]

5 hours ago, Lacessit said:

You prefer RWD? Each to his own.

The Germans found out in World War II the FWD Citroen was far more nimble in French streets than their RWD Mercs.

FWD is fine but IMO RWD/AWD is better for grip under hard acceleration. Generally a bit more mechanically reliable too if driver has a heavy foot, there being no CV joints. That said, FWD with decent rubber and suspension can be a lot of fun.

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, BKKBike09 said:

FWD is fine but IMO RWD/AWD is better for grip under hard acceleration. Generally a bit more mechanically reliable too if driver has a heavy foot, there being no CV joints. That said, FWD with decent rubber and suspension can be a lot of fun.

In a straight line, yes. IMO FWD is more controllable accelerating on a curve. With RWD, things can go pear-shaped quickly.

The Hyundai i30N is FWD, probably only 2% of drivers can exploit its full capability.

No argument AWD is the best option. That is probably going to be the next stage of i30N development.