Non-o Visa Extension

[sua yai]

I've asked a few questions on this before and had helpful answers. However, some others have occured to me and I'm wondering if anyone can help.

To recap, I'm a Brit, been married to a Thai national for almost two years and am 50 next August. I've got a multi-entry Non O visa that expires on September 21st. Ive been turned down twice by my local Immigration Office for an extension "based on marriage/family income" as I don't bring the 40k per month into Thailand. (In fact, I actually havn't been permitted to make an application, so it's not really an official refusal. They've just said go away and come back with a Thai bank book showing a minimum of 40k per month being transferred into it from the UK each month for 3 months prior to application, or come back when you're 50 and apply for retirement).

So my questions are:

1. Can I apply in BKK, or will I simply be referred back to my local office?

2. Do I have any chance of getting the extension in BKK with all the supporting documentation, but the financial proof limited to an Embassy letter confirming income, bank statements from the UK and statements from my letting agents - no Thai bank account?

3. I've got to do another 90 day run on July 1st, so I'll get an entry stamp to approx the end of September. As the visa expires on 21st Sept, if I havn't got the extension sorted out, I'll exit again around the 19/20th to get the bonus 90 days. Am I able to make an application for extension after the visa has expired? Obviously my permitted to stay date will be in order till around Xmas. It's the validity of the visa here - I suspect that I won't be able to apply after 21st Sept?

4. Looking ahead to next year if nothing works for the marriage/income extension, I'll go for retirement. Again, proof of 65k income from the UK isn't a problem. However, does this have to be remitted to a Thai bank every month? I think, to be honest, I've asked that before and the answer was that it didn't need to be and could be income from any source - ie property, not pension. I'm just looking for confirmation again, please. I appreciate that things can change before August next year.

If neither of the options are available to me unless I transfer money to Thailand, the country is starting to look quite bleak for any further future for me. I do have decent income, but I need to leave as much as possible back home to take care of my business, whilst allowing my wife and I to have a reasonable lifestyle here.

Thanks for all your help.

[gzu88bv]

So my questions are:

1. Can I apply in BKK, or will I simply be referred back to my local office?

2. Do I have any chance of getting the extension in BKK with all the supporting documentation, but the financial proof limited to an Embassy letter confirming income, bank statements from the UK and statements from my letting agents - no Thai bank account?

3. I've got to do another 90 day run on July 1st, so I'll get an entry stamp to approx the end of September. As the visa expires on 21st Sept, if I havn't got the extension sorted out, I'll exit again around the 19/20th to get the bonus 90 days. Am I able to make an application for extension after the visa has expired? Obviously my permitted to stay date will be in order till around Xmas. It's the validity of the visa here - I suspect that I won't be able to apply after 21st Sept?

4. Looking ahead to next year if nothing works for the marriage/income extension, I'll go for retirement. Again, proof of 65k income from the UK isn't a problem. However, does this have to be remitted to a Thai bank every month? I think, to be honest, I've asked that before and the answer was that it didn't need to be and could be income from any source - ie property, not pension. I'm just looking for confirmation again, please. I appreciate that things can change before August next year.

Since it rains in my part of the world I try to help and answer your questions. Others please don’t shoot me if not always right.

I hope that you are still married, this would make it definitely easier. Let’s straighten things out a little bit:

Being a holder of a Multiple Non-O-Visa to be utilized before September 21, and as I understand seeking Retirement in this country, I would suggest to pick the Embassy Income Letter route (e.g. 40k per month when married; 65k if not married any longer).

At the same time (if not already available), I suggest to you to open right now a Thai account and have at least just the money you live on here transferred from the UK into that account and draw money from it.

From an age point, turning 50 in August qualifies you for retirement so to speak. However, be aware that you have to be 50 at least at the date of application! Earliest 30 days respectively latest 21 days before your Non-O-Visa expires, you do that Extension for Retirement (Form tm.7) at any immigration in the country. Since your Income Letter has to be picked up from your Embassy anyway and should be of actual date, I suggest you go to Suan Plu immigration in Bangkok and you may not always meet the same officer. Don’t forget to apply for the Re-Enty Permit (Form tm.8) once successful with your Retirement Extension.

Also make sure to take your wife with you, also bring along rental agreement or Tabian ban and the marriage papers.

Subsequently, don’t do the bonus borderrun you mentioned, since your actual visa will be voided and there will be only a stamp to stay in your passport.

Hope this helps, if not read my messages “Retirement Visa” of this month. Good luck!

P.S. If lopburi3 or maestro do not interfere, go for above!

[sua yai]

Thanks gzu88bv,

I'm not 50 till August next year, so the retirement option is not possible on this multi-entry visa anyway. I'll get a single entry from Penang (on the basis of being married) closer to the time, if I don't get the marriage extension in the meantime.

Good idea about applying for retirement in BKK though, if and when the time arrives.

[lopburi3]

1. You can always apply in Bangkok but will still have to meet the conditions - am not sure what proof of 40k income is required when from outside of country by Bangkok.

2. Retirement extension of stay requires 65k/800k or combination regardless of your marriage situation. You do not obtain for 40k.

3. Wife is required to attend for family extension - not for retirement extension.

4. Letter of income from Embassy does not need to be the same day - and in many cases it can not be. Also some seem to be able to use the same original letter for duration of passport.

5. You must be over age 50 for retirement - so some will write 51 as any age after your 50th birthday so don't get upset that they are making you older.

6. There is no fixed days before expiration of permitted to stay stamp but they prefer it be between 3 and 4 weeks remaining. The 21 day minimum is for change of visa status from tourist or visa exempt entry - not for TM.7 applications.

7. A re-entry permit is not required. But if you plan travel it is good to obtain just to be safe from any last minute forgetfulness.

[sua yai]

Thanks for that, Lopburi3.

I reckon a quick trip up to BKK will probably be worthwhile to have a word with Imm there about whether they require the 40k per month to be transferred to a Thai bank. If they don't, then I'll get all the other documentation and Embassy letter together and apply formally at Soi Suan Plu with my wife.

(I have tried to call them for clarification, but only get a recorded message and various menus to go through, none of which answer the above question).

I'm still a little confused about whether I can apply when my visa has expired (Sept 21st), but the entry stamp is still OK till around Xmas. Can you clarify, please? If it's OK, I've got plenty of time. If not, everything will have to be done between my next visa run on the 1st July and the expiry date of 21st Sept. Your point about applying between 3-4 weeks of the entry stamp finishing are noted. Again, I'm not rushed, but just wonder whether I have the second option up until Xmas.

[lopburi3]

Try calling the government hotline at 1111 and ask for immigration.

[opalhort]

Subsequently, don’t do the bonus borderrun you mentioned, since your actual visa will be voided and there will be only a stamp to stay in your passport.

I'm not sure if this is correct.

Suan Plu does not extent any visas, all they do is to extend your permission to stay in Thailand.

Sure you will have to show the visa which provided you with the current permission of stay, but you should be able to get an extension of stay while here on your "bonus" stamp even if the visa has expired.

opalhort

[lopburi3]

Your permitted to stay is what is extended so the visa validity is not a factor.

[sua yai]

Thankyou.

That was a surprise - re extending the permission to stay, rather than the visa.

[gdhm]

...4. Letter of income from Embassy does not need to be the same day - and in many cases it can not be. Also some seem to be able to use the same original letter for duration of passport...

Hi Lopburi3,

Regarding 4.

I was under the impression this was ALWAYS acceptable.

This seems to be a change on advice I received (on TV) nearly a year ago where I was told the Embassy letter is fine for the duration of the passport Number it refers to.

Are you now saying that we should all get yearly letters from our Pension companies and our Embassies because Immigration are yet again being inconsistent in their application of their Pension Extension requirements. If so will the Immigration Bureau ever tell us exactly what they need instead of this yearly circus of "guess what we need this time - but do NOT phone, write or email our Office first, because we will not answer you. You need to make the 3 hours journey (in my case) to see us and we will then tell you if if you have met our requirements or need to go away and revisit"

I am sure most pensions are index linked in some manner so if Immigration wanted pension pay slips AND the mandatory letter from the Embassies to match then a yearly letter from the Embassies and Pension companies would be mandatory, because most Pension pay slips will rise each year whilst the Embassy letter would remain static (be it below the actual pension income being received).

DOES ANYBODY have any information on what the Nong Khai (preferably Udon Thani sub branch require and accept at present

An additional question please Lopburi3.

How long before a Retirement Visa expires do you recommend visiting Immigration for renewal and if early when does the renewal run from the date of visit or the expiry date of the current Visa.

Kindest Regards, Dave

[lopburi3]

Some people report immigration wants to keep the original letter - others report that a copy was accepted - so it seems to vary.

Immigration reportedly prefers you always apply with between 3 and 4 week remaining on your permitted to stay stamp as this allows plenty of time if an item is not immediately available. The extension of stay will still end on the same date each year regardless of when you apply.

[gdhm]

Some people report immigration wants to keep the original letter - others report that a copy was accepted - so it seems to vary.

Immigration reportedly prefers you always apply with between 3 and 4 week remaining on your permitted to stay stamp as this allows plenty of time if an item is not immediately available. The extension of stay will still end on the same date each year regardless of when you apply.

Thanks Lopburi3,

The Udon Thani sub branch gave me back my original Embassy letter last time so I guess it will be OK.

My ONLY fear is that they will say my increased payslips do not match the pension quoted on the Embassy letter despite my original Pension company letter quotes that an Inflation increase is added each year based upon UK official RPI figures (up to a maximum of 5%).

It such a shame that law and rule abiding people like myself live in fear and worry each time we need to visit Immigration purely because we do not know what they will expect each time.

No reasonable person disagrees with Thailand's right to demand what it requires for Visa approval (strict or not) BUT it's surely reasonable and about time The Immigration Bureau treated Visa applicants with the basic decency of consistency of rules and requirements between offices (and between visits to the same offices). We ALL would then know where we stand, know what is required and in what format AND everybody INCLUDING Immigration Officers would wastes less time and be less stressed.

The real tragedy is that consistency of interpretation of the rules around the country should be easy if the individual offices were given exact instructions, and adequate training to make sure the rules were fully understood AND the Visa applicants were told the same. I for one and I am sure most Visa applicants are not wishing to fight, obstruct, get around the immigration Bureau rules or waste the officers time with incomplete or incorrect applications.

Thanks for your helpful and speedy (as always) advice Lopburi3, I will go up around 3 to 3 Weeks prior to expiry as you suggest.

Dave