Thaksin Mindset Plagues Country

[Ulysses G.]

I am not writing formal letters

What a lame excuse for a lame excuse!

[KireB]

I am not writing formal letters

What a lame excuse for a lame excuse!

Whe have a poet among us!

[observer21]

I am not writing formal letters

What a lame excuse for a lame excuse!

I said what are you

[steves_the_1]

i dont understand why people get so worked up about things it not like it going to change

p.s

what has grammar and capital letters got to do with the op, some people just dont like it up them do they

when all else fails nit pick the replys for grammar and punctuation mistakes

some people need to grow up

[vermin on arrival]

After Thaksin muzzled the Bangkok Post by having the editor fired, I really enjoyed reading The Nation as a source of news and admired it for it's ability to stand up to him despite what I assumed was enormous pressure. Now, when I read an article like this, I'm flabbergasted. Despite all of his exceses, to blame Thaksin for the culture of corruption in Thailand is rubbish. Is there any local paper that we can read to get balanced reporting of the news anymore?

I think what the article is trying to say is, while corruption existed before, the vast majority of the populace did not condone it, but rather, was held hostage by it. I think what's changed under Thaksin, is he seemed to indicate, that only by embracing the reality of corruption, could one ever likely succeeed. In other words, it seemed his advice to the masses was "don't be a sap, emnrace the corruption culture and get your piece of the pie". While it's true that laws are not generally enforced against the corrupt. No one ever before tried to change the mores of the nation to accept the practice, which he did.

Yes, fair enough. Don't get me wrong. I'm not an apologist for Thaksin. I'm glad he is gone. Certainly, Thaksin was very corrupt and there appears to have been much more corruption under his rule, but dont you think it is absurd for the author to say this:

"This kind of attitude is something new in Thai society. In the past, people everywhere had an unshakeable faith in honesty and ethical values and they hated corrupt politicians most of all."

LMAO. This is laying it on a bit thick isn't it? It really seems that he is trying to lay all of the blame for corruption at Thaksin's feet. There was rampant corruption before Thaksin, and however much I don't want it to be the case, I expect there will be rampant corruption in the future(albeit at a lower level than the previous administration). This does not look like any attempt at a balanced opinion does it?

[JR Texas]

After Thaksin muzzled the Bangkok Post by having the editor fired, I really enjoyed reading The Nation as a source of news and admired it for it's ability to stand up to him despite what I assumed was enormous pressure. Now, when I read an article like this, I'm flabbergasted. Despite all of his exceses, to blame Thaksin for the culture of corruption in Thailand is rubbish. Is there any local paper that we can read to get balanced reporting of the news anymore?

I think what the article is trying to say is, while corruption existed before, the vast majority of the populace did not condone it, but rather, was held hostage by it. I think what's changed under Thaksin, is he seemed to indicate, that only by embracing the reality of corruption, could one ever likely succeeed. In other words, it seemed his advice to the masses was "don't be a sap, emnrace the corruption culture and get your piece of the pie". While it's true that laws are not generally enforced against the corrupt. No one ever before tried to change the mores of the nation to accept the practice, which he did.

JR Texas to Vermin on Arrival: How did you get past the immigration screening process that prevents any expat with a brain from entering Thailand?

I think what you said is right on target. TOXIN the Magnificent basically sent a message to the masses that "greed and corruption" are good......same as Ronald Reagan and the Bad Bush.

I believe there are other elements of the Thai mindset that are currently plaguing the country. Allow me to generalize:

1) lack of independent thought (flow of cultural information totally controlled by ruling elite),

2) inability to use reason to solve problems,

3) inability to realize that the Thai way is not always the best way (will never ask a farang for advice on anything),

4) lack of ability to be innovative/creative,

5) inability to admit to making a mistake,

6) mai pen rai until the cows come home attitude (allowing shit to happen over and over again),

7) widespread feeling that they have to be taken care of by the rich/powerful (deeply ingrained in Thai culture)

To be fair, these are gross generalizations......but I think they reflect the dominant cultural ethos......and I could rip my country apart on many of the same issues.

[jumnien]

I don't think that a Thaksin mindset is plaguing the country. In fact, very few Thais seem hel_l-bent on starting their own successful mobile phone company. I do think that a Sonthi mindset is plaguing the military and that's where the focus of the rest of the country should be. When your house is burning down, it makes little sense to argue about the integrity of the previous owner; just concentrate on putting the fire (getting the military) OUT!!

[Ulysses G.]

p.s

what has grammar and capital letters got to do with the op, some people just dont like it up them do they

when all else fails nit pick the replys for grammar and punctuation mistakes

some people need to grow up

What utter tripe. When you go around calling other people "ignorant", you should at least attempt to appear educated yourself.

Edited June 17, 2007 by Ulysses G.

[Gary A]

Thaksin created corruption in Thailand? WOW, I didn't know that. Anyone who believes that is VERY naive. I can't believe anyone would publish such a stupid statement. Does anyone actually believe that things are better now? The worst part is that it's going to get worse before it gets better.

[wolfmanjack]

I think the people that scribble those editorials and holier-than-thou comments in the Bangkok dailies don't live in the same world as the rest of us. Typical, cosy middle-class shock horror that police or politicians might be corrupt, blah, blah. Bangkok-centric and totally ignorant of the rest of this country and its population, that would mostly wai Satan himself if he climbed out of a tinted-window Mercedes with a safari suit on.

This is so true. Up country corruption is just a part of daily life on many different levels. Something you accept & just add to the cost of everyday stuff. My wife's construction business has provided me with a lot of insight into how the process works. Corruption in the building industry from the word go until the very end.

A "therotical" rundown....

A job is released with a budget of X Baht.

All the building companies collude to get it at maximum price, negotiating & paying each other off in the process, rather than bidding against each other & forcing the price down.

The officials know what's going on, but rather than sort it out, they ask for a percentage off the top.

The building companies want to make more profit - so they cut corners, don't follow spec., use dodgy materials etc.

This leads to the govt. supplied engineer & QC officers wanting a piece of the pie.

Job's finished, QC signed off & now its time to collect the money. Not so easy, if you want it quickly, the accounting department needs motivation to write up a cheque. Sure you can wait, but for how many months????

"Theoretical" corruption costs of different projects for the building companies. (of total project value)

Dirt Road - 17.5%

Dam - 15%

Bituman Road - 15%

Cap Seal - 12.5%

Bridge - 12.5%

Concrete Road - 10%

Government Buildings - 7.5% - 12.5%

Not all provinces are the same. Generally higher in previous TRT provinces.

And who pays for all this???? The VAT tax..... Consumption by the poor of Thailand.

Cheers,

Soundman.

Not just some provinces. Sankhampaeng has got to be the most corrupt from what I hear.

[wolfmanjack]

Thaksin created corruption in Thailand? WOW, I didn't know that. Anyone who believes that is VERY naive. I can't believe anyone would publish such a stupid statement. Does anyone actually believe that things are better now? The worst part is that it's going to get worse before it gets better.

Since the military took over I have not had to pay a bribe to any police. In the past every single time i went to bkk i got hit up for 200 baht for a fictitious infraction at least once. I always got stopped Coming into town by the Don Muang Airport. That was always my first 200 baht "fine" for the 10 days I spend in Bkk each trip. The last 2 times i went i did not see any police out on the road at this location.

Also here in chiang mai i have never been stopped at any of the police check points since the coup. some of the other "fees" to renew licenses I had to pay under taxsin have disappeared also. Others have not.

In the case of the police i think it may be that the military do not like the police so they shut down part of their income generating activities. In regards to the other so called civil servants I am not sure what the cause may be.

[jumnien]

Down here in Hua Hin the police have been far more active in revenueing activities since the coup. Not sure that they are related.

[Gary A]

Since the coup, I have seen nothing that affects me. Police presence has not changed that I can notice. Out here in the boonies they have never been greedy anyways.

I have some friends who run entertainment sorts of businesses such as a swimming pools, restaurants, souvenir shops and places where people like to spend their leisure time. I can say for a fact that these places are really hurting. I don't think it's so much that the people don't have money but more the fact that they are not spending what they do have. They are not sure what lies ahead and they are certainly NOT optimistic.

[Foggy Bottom]

PS  why does England give visas to the likes of Thaksin

Funny you should mention that

Remember Thaksin's little Songkran holiday haunt oops - jaunt to the US Canada and UK a couple of years ago?

At the time I asked why such a nationalistic leader should abandon the traditional Thai new year to go off for a family weekend away. I speculated that he was house hunting.

He stunned us all by coming back with a deal from Tony Blurgh for Thailand to buy X billion dollars worth of obsolete and redundant ex-British military gear.

I guess his visa was the sweetener to seal the deal?

Edited June 17, 2007 by Gaz Chiangmai