Suzuki Ciaz cvt sportmode gear problems?

[sanook 1]

2017 suzuki ciaz cvt, when press the sportmode button the gear stopped shifting at aprox 100 km/h (4000 rpm) still not shifting. I mean even in sportmode he should shift through all the gears? Any ciaz owners with same experience or would it be beginning of some gearbox problems? Any input much apprechiated. 

[VocalNeal]

And if you take your foot off at 4000? Does it shift up and then you reapply....

[transam]

There are only 2 gears in your CVT, which are gear ranges, the pulleys alter their positions to alter the revs which seem like gears.

 

Is the CVT working differently than it did before..?

How many KM on the clock.....?

At what KM intervals did you change the box fluid...?

[sanook 1]

11 minutes ago, VocalNeal said:

And if you take your foot off at 4000? Does it shift up and then you reapply....

No, its like there is no moore gears,nothing happens, only the rpms go up. But in normal mode it works as should. 

[sanook 1]

8 minutes ago, transam said:

There are only 2 gears in your CVT, which are gear ranges, the pulleys alter their positions to alter the revs which seem like gears.

 

Is the CVT working differently than it did before..?

How many KM on the clock.....?

At what KM intervals did you change the box fluid...?

The normal mode shift as it should, but the s mode doesnt. About 90.000 km. Every 10.000 km. 

[HauptmannUK]

Your car has the Jatco CVT7 (JF015E) transmission. It has a small Ravigneaux gearbox on the input side to switch ranges (switches over at about 44km/h in D - you may feel a sLight pause in acceleration when it shifts). The CVT gear ratio is controlled electronically according to vehicle speed/load conditions (basically sensing throttle position, road speed and engine speed). When you switch to Sport mode the engine will be allowed to rev higher. There is no set speed at which it changes ratio but obviously it shouldn't exceed red line. JATCO released a software upgrade (somewhere between 2017-2020, can't remember exactly when) reducing the maximum upshift rpm to about 5200rpm (note that this is not same as maximum engine rpm which IIRC is 6500rpm or thereabouts).

Without test driving you car its hard to say if there is a real problem or not. If it drives OK in D then I suspect not since moving to S is only selecting different ratio mapping in the TCM - all the same hardware is involved.

I suspect your car may never have had a CVT fluid change. The fluid is expensive. Also note that there are TWO filters on this transmission - an externally accessible cartridge filter and a strainer/filter assy accessed after removing the oil pan. 

[petermik]

As far as I am aware sport mode is for quick acceleration only and not intended for prolonged highway cruising....I have a Sylphy with the same CVT drive and I rarely use the sport mode...on a long highway run my fuel comsumption at 100kms/hr is mid 19 kms/litre in normal drive mode....cannot understand why you need to be in sport mode at this speed?

[VocalNeal]

2 hours ago, sanook 1 said:

No, its like there is no moore gears,nothing happens, only the rpms go up. But in normal mode it works as should. 

But it was OK before?

[VocalNeal]

Is this what your Ciaz does?

 

Sport mode engaged when amber light on dash next to "2" is illuminated.

 

 

[sanook 1]

12 hours ago, HauptmannUK said:

Your car has the Jatco CVT7 (JF015E) transmission. It has a small Ravigneaux gearbox on the input side to switch ranges (switches over at about 44km/h in D - you may feel a sLight pause in acceleration when it shifts). The CVT gear ratio is controlled electronically according to vehicle speed/load conditions (basically sensing throttle position, road speed and engine speed). When you switch to Sport mode the engine will be allowed to rev higher. There is no set speed at which it changes ratio but obviously it shouldn't exceed red line. JATCO released a software upgrade (somewhere between 2017-2020, can't remember exactly when) reducing the maximum upshift rpm to about 5200rpm (note that this is not same as maximum engine rpm which IIRC is 6500rpm or thereabouts).

Without test driving you car its hard to say if there is a real problem or not. If it drives OK in D then I suspect not since moving to S is only selecting different ratio mapping in the TCM - all the same hardware is involved.

I suspect your car may never have had a CVT fluid change. The fluid is expensive. Also note that there are TWO filters on this transmission - an externally accessible cartridge filter and a strainer/filter assy accessed after removing the oil pan. 

Thanks for explaining, i take the foot of the pedal at 4500 rpm(not flooring it, soft accelaration) as nothing happens. Previous owner changed (he stated) "Gearbox oil change-Suzuki ECstar cvt fluid green 2 and paid 1400 b ", but no record or service history/book. Is 1400 b a realistic price paid for cvt oil change (fluid/mechanic)? 

[sanook 1]

11 hours ago, VocalNeal said:

Is this what your Ciaz does?

 

Sport mode engaged when amber light on dash next to "2" is illuminated.

 

 

Yes very similar, only difference is when i take my foot of the pedal, the rpm start "wobbling" a bit on the way down.. 

[sanook 1]

12 hours ago, VocalNeal said:

But it was OK before?

Dont know, im interested to buy the car so only test drive it once, but the gearbox put me of(for now) 

[petermik]

15 hours ago, petermik said:

As far as I am aware sport mode is for quick acceleration only and not intended for prolonged highway cruising....I have a Sylphy with the same CVT drive and I rarely use the sport mode...on a long highway run my fuel comsumption at 100kms/hr is mid 19 kms/litre in normal drive mode....cannot understand why you need to be in sport mode at this speed?

At the above speed my revs are around 1750...in sport mode in the above it`s over 3500...heavy fuel consumption and totally unnecessary to be in this mode.

[VocalNeal]

I'd say it is mostly normal.

Just use "sport" when passing or going uphill if you need to. It appears that in "sport" at higher speeds it holds the car in about 4th gear. So you shift back to D or 5/6th gear once the need for "sport" is finished.

It is not load dependent like smaller CVT. So my foot off thing was nonsense.

[sanook 1]

47 minutes ago, VocalNeal said:

I'd say it is mostly normal.

Just use "sport" when passing or going uphill if you need to. It appears that in "sport" at higher speeds it holds the car in about 4th gear. So you shift back to D or 5/6th gear once the need for "sport" is finished.

It is not load dependent like smaller CVT. So my foot off thing was nonsense.

Thanks for your input, my guess also its normal after reading the comments, conclusion seems like he only uses up to 3/4 gear i s-mode then. 

[sanook 1]

59 minutes ago, petermik said:

At the above speed my revs are around 1750...in sport mode in the above it`s over 3500...heavy fuel consumption and totally unnecessary to be in this mode.

totally unnecessary i agree, but when you are looking to buy it id like to push/test the car a bit. Never seen a gearbox stop swifting gear at 100 km/h hence my concern. 

[HauptmannUK]

4 hours ago, sanook 1 said:

Thanks for explaining, i take the foot of the pedal at 4500 rpm(not flooring it, soft accelaration) as nothing happens. Previous owner changed (he stated) "Gearbox oil change-Suzuki ECstar cvt fluid green 2 and paid 1400 b ", but no record or service history/book. Is 1400 b a realistic price paid for cvt oil change (fluid/mechanic)? 

This JATCO CVT uses Suzuki Green-2 or Nissan NS3 fluid (same stuff). 1400THB only buys you about 4 litres. Certainly not enough to pay the mechanic to change it as well.

It is only possible to drain the fluid in the oil pan (couple of litres) so to refresh most of the oil in the transmission you need to do 3x drain/refill.  You'll need more than 8L of fluid.

On the first drain also change the filters.  Drain the fluid (19mm bolt) remove the oil pan (10mm bolts) remove filter (10mm) - and O ring. Replace with new items. Clean magnets in sump pan before replacing it. Cartridge filter is removed from passenger side under the car. Remove single 10mm bolt and remove cover. Replace element and O ring.

In the UK we charge about £150 retail to change fluid on this 'box and a further £75 to change filters.

Although better than earlier JATCO CVT this gearbox is still not the longest lived. They benefit a lot from fluid changes because they run very hot and the fluid degrades.  First sign of trouble is usually juddering or shuddering when pulling up a gentle incline under light throttle. Caused by belt starting to 'stick slip' on the pulley.

If you want a car with the most reliable CVT then choose a Toyota. The Aisin/Toyo K400 series CVT as used on the Yaris has been in production since about 2004, with major revisions around 2012. Toyota have refined it to now be pretty much as good as it gets for a CVT.

[HauptmannUK]

30 minutes ago, sanook 1 said:

totally unnecessary i agree, but when you are looking to buy it id like to push/test the car a bit. Never seen a gearbox stop swifting gear at 100 km/h hence my concern. 

Purpose of Sport mode is to allow the engine to run at higher RPM where it is producing more power. This is required for overtaking or hilly country.

To test the transmission in S mode. Stop the car and then, with clear road ahead, push the throttle to the floor. The RPM should max out at around 5500 and stay there until max speed is reached.

[sanook 1]

1 hour ago, HauptmannUK said:

Purpose of Sport mode is to allow the engine to run at higher RPM where it is producing more power. This is required for overtaking or hilly country.

To test the transmission in S mode. Stop the car and then, with clear road ahead, push the throttle to the floor. The RPM should max out at around 5500 and stay there until max speed is reached.

Will do! Thanks for all the advices/recomedantions, much apprechiated! 

[sanook 1]

On 4/17/2022 at 4:16 PM, transam said:

There are only 2 gears in your CVT, which are gear ranges, the pulleys alter their positions to alter the revs which seem like gears.

 

Is the CVT working differently than it did before..?

How many KM on the clock.....?

At what KM intervals did you change the box fluid...?

"only 2 gears in the cvt", does it mean the s mode only using those 2 and should pull out the s mode after reaching like 60-70 km/h? 

[transam]

14 minutes ago, sanook 1 said:

"only 2 gears in the cvt", does it mean the s mode only using those 2 and should pull out the s mode after reaching like 60-70 km/h? 

Not sure how the S mode works, it could keep it in the lower gear range longer, and/or use the tech to increase RPM's. If you put your foot to the floor it will really take off, use a lower range and raise the RPM to the limit...

[VocalNeal]

20 minutes ago, sanook 1 said:

"only 2 gears in the cvt", does it mean the s mode only using those 2 and should pull out the s mode after reaching like 60-70 km/h? 

The Ciaz produces its maximum power at 6000 rpm so after 6000 you are not gaining anything. 

Use "S" to gain maximum acceleration until you reach a speed you are happy with OR 6000 rpm whichever comes first.

 

[sanook 1]

3 minutes ago, transam said:

Not sure how the S mode works, it could keep it in the lower gear range longer, and/or use the tech to increase RPM's. If you put your foot to the floor it will really take off, use a lower range and raise the RPM to the limit...

Thanks, my concern is: should it keep swifting gears in even s mode at 4-5000 rpms(70/80 km/h) or this is normal the car wont gear anymoore in s mode at this speed ? 

[sanook 1]

2 minutes ago, VocalNeal said:

The Ciaz produces its maximum power at 6000 rpm so after 6000 you are not gaining anything. 

Use "S" to gain maximum acceleration until you reach a speed you are happy with OR 6000 rpm whichever comes first.

 

And when speed is reached just pull it back to normal mode? My experience with other cars is you can use the sportmode even for long distance highway cruising. Hence my concern. 

[transam]

2 minutes ago, sanook 1 said:

Thanks, my concern is: should it keep swifting gears in even s mode at 4-5000 rpms(70/80 km/h) or this is normal the car wont gear anymoore in s mode at this speed ? 

In S mode it hangs on to the peak torque.

Your Suzuki dealer has a diagnostic computer setup, they can alter how the engine and box works via a keyboard, had mine done once. It also gives a readout on pass & fail items. Well worth them connecting your ride to check it out.. 

[VocalNeal]

3 minutes ago, sanook 1 said:

Thanks, my concern is: should it keep swifting gears in even s mode at 4-5000 rpms(70/80 km/h) or this is normal the car wont gear anymoore in s mode at this speed ? 

Not exactly the most technical of explanations.

 

If you are doing 70/80 kms an hour and don't want to accelerate more get out of "S"

If going uphill at 70/80kms an hour and you wish to maintain speed or attempt to accelerate more stay in "S"

 

Go to Suzuki and ask them to drive in "S" and tell you if it is OK. OR find another Ciaz owner and ask them to take your car for a spin.

[sanook 1]

1 minute ago, transam said:

In S mode it hangs on to the peak torque.

Your Suzuki dealer has a diagnostic computer setup, they can alter how the engine and box works via a keyboard, had mine done once. It also gives a readout on pass & fail items. Well worth them connecting your ride to check it out.. 

Good idea thanks, do you remember how much you paid for them to connect and check the gearbox with the diagnostic computer setup? 

[VocalNeal]

May not be Suzuki's philosophy but with some manufactures "D" mode selects the highest gear possible for current stable conditions and "S" mode selects the lowest gear possible for the same conditions. 

[transam]

2 minutes ago, sanook 1 said:

Good idea thanks, do you remember how much you paid for them to connect and check the gearbox with the diagnostic computer setup? 

Nothing, they had cleaned the throttle body as idle rpm kept sticking a tad high..But, to take off and clean the TB and do the diag cost 500bht..???? 

[HauptmannUK]

There is no standard way in which 'Sport' mode is implemented by the different gearbox manufacturers. For example, some just raise the shift point rpm by about 30% so that the engine revs a bit higher in each gear.

 

In the case of the Jatco CVT7 the 'S' mode causes the transmission controller to keep the engine rpm near to maximum power (high rpm).  If you floor the throttle the engine will rev high and stay there as the car speeds up - for fastest acceleration.  S mode on this gearbox is not meant for cruising, its for overtaking and driving in hill country. The S mode is a function of the software programmed into the gearbox's electronic 'brain' (TCM - transmission control module). There are no mechanical components in the gearbox that are specifically for the S mode. In other words if the gearbox is shifting correctly in D mode, and not making a whining noise or juddering, then you can be reassured that it is mechanically sound.

 

If you're buying a used car its always well worth taking it to the franchised dealer to have fault codes read.  First get any (potentially misleading) historical codes cleared. Take the car for a good drive and then return to the dealer to have any new codes read. I would guess 1000-1500THB for this.

Be aware that on modern cars battery condition is critical. A weak battery can cause all sorts of strange problems. If in any doubt then renew it.