Cns Leaders Warned To Steer Clear Of Superstition

[Steely Dan]

Superstition is a part of the culture here. I recently drove my brother in law to a temple in the mountains to get our shop sign blessed. Monks were holding a ceremony there and it seemed that a whole sub-culture existed buying, selling and comparing amulets flags and other good luck charms. At the end of the ceremony may people bought flags or carried away bottles of blessed muddy water. Now I don't profess to know much about Buddhism, but the behaviour I observed was pure idolatry and superstition, sadly this seems to permeate the whole Country and rather than exhibiting hard work, thrift and self reliance many sadly would rather rely on a 'Rich without reasons' medallion or some crumbling relic of a farrang just because he comes with added wallet. Sad really.

[qualtrough]

I do hope that the advice the Junta gets from fortune tellers here is a bit better than the advice received by Ne Win and other Generals and Colonels in neighboring Burma.

[qualtrough]

"I sniff a wind-up....nobody IN THEIR RIGHT MIND would do such a thing" ThaiPauly

You are probably right...I took the bait.

However, I have witnessed first-hand a Thai mother and father giving up a child with no remorse, emotion or feeling.

ThaiPauly is right on with that one.

[Steely Dan]

This nonsense isn't restricted to LOS. When Reagan was pres of the US, he and Nancy used her astrologer. Who knows why things are decided at the at the highest levels?

And of course in Myanmar the leaders moved their capital on the advice of a forune teller. Maybe the Thai Generals are planning to move from Bangkok and are currently consulting as to where.

[dave111223]

But there is a bright side to everything, I now know what fortune teller my wife goes to , so I'll visit her also , slip her a 1000 bath and bribe her to tell my wife she should encourage me to have a slender willing mia noi because it will bring us good luck

Hmmm who knows somebody else is also doing just the same thing to tell Mr Sonthi to be nice to Thaksin family , duh, I wonder who has enough money to bribe this fortune teller ?

Good point.

[rychrde]

superstition is rife everywhere in the world - think virgin birth, resurrection, heaven and hel_l, apocalypse etc etc. But the higher up one is on the human food chain the more extreme seem one's views. People seem to NEED to believe they have been especially chosen - divine right of kings anyone? - rather than a sequence of lucky accidents. I mean, someone has to be president. So as mentioned before, some of the references to the apocalypse by US presidents was especially scary, especially as they have the power to deliver! Perhaps the only protection we poor drones have is to be highly cynical of all the bs thrown at us. If the population start to believe all this crap then we're all on our way to our next life.

rych

[Xangsamhua]

Guy I know was a professional astrologer in Washington DC for many years. He said you'd be surprised who comes for readings there. Astrologers in DC have a code of conduct whereby not only is nothing revealed of the horoscope but of who has come for one.

Seems like people like to cover all the bases.

Edited June 17, 2007 by Xangsamhua

[khunmarc]

jsut because you dont believe in fortune telling doesnt mean that it doesnt work or isnt valid. i have based many life decisions on fortune tellers. i actually gave up my second child for adoption because it was going to be unlucky. my next two children were both predicted to be very great people and that has turned out correct so far. the one who went to adoption has had problems ever since, which goes to show you.

where the hel_l are you from?? India or another of them places that straddle the modern world and the old world at the same time?? I bet you one of them that "own" his wife !!!!

Fortune telling is nothing but mumbo jumbo and if the Thai government base its decicions on that crap shows they not too smart !!! I can see issan villagers stuck in the stuff but people who are supposetly educated and qualified to run the place !!!!

and I am sure glad I am not one of your kids !!! What if the sooth sayer tells you I am evil and got to be disposed of ?

[khunmarc]

Abhisit warns CNS leaders to steer clear of superstition

BANGKOK: -- Democrat party leader Abhisit Vejjajiva yesterday warned key members of the Council for National Security (CNS) not to base any of their political decisions on superstitious beliefs. Mr Abhisit said people could not be expected to accept key decisions made by the ruling military council if they were based on such irrationality.

His comments were in response to reports that CNS chairman Gen Sonthi Boonyaratkalin and other members of the military were heading to Chiang Mai today to consult renowned fortune teller Varin Buaviratlert. They reportedly want the fortune teller to perform magical rites to change the country's destiny following rising political tensions.

Hopefully he will tell the thai military mini-nazies to go back to their barracks !!!!

I see the future here..... Thai generals make bad prime ministers!!!!!!

the stars and the Gods are angry !!!!!!

maybe he can tell them where to find the insurgents in the South ... since they cant seem to find anything other then the road side bombs after they blow up !!!!!

unfu*(&^ real and they talking about building nuclear plants??? gee they couldnt even build proper bathrooms at their show case airport !!!!! better go see the fortune teller !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[frikkiedeboer]

jsut because you dont believe in fortune telling doesnt mean that it doesnt work or isnt valid. i have based many life decisions on fortune tellers. i actually gave up my second child for adoption because it was going to be unlucky. my next two children were both predicted to be very great people and that has turned out correct so far. the one who went to adoption has had problems ever since, which goes to show you.

ever given it a thought that the second child may have ended up having problems as a RESULT of having been given up for adoption? there is no such thing as a child who is born "unlucky" or "bad" a child grows and learns by what he/she experiences and is taught during the formative years. i think that perhaps this child is the lucky one, in that he/she has a chance of growing up without the influence of stupid superstition, and without the influence of parents who are prepared to discard a child based on their superstitious beliefs. i pity your remaining two "lucky" children, and hope that they escape the influence of such people as yourself!

frikkie

[Foggy Bottom]

[Gumballl]

Was it a "warning" that Vejjajiva gave, or advice? What could he possibly do... he is not the one holding the guns. Personally I could care one iota who sees who. If baffles me that anyone on TV would care either.

[SiamSquare123]

jsut because you dont believe in fortune telling doesnt mean that it doesnt work or isnt valid. i have based many life decisions on fortune tellers. i actually gave up my second child for adoption because it was going to be unlucky. my next two children were both predicted to be very great people and that has turned out correct so far. the one who went to adoption has had problems ever since, which goes to show you.

where the hel_l are you from?? India or another of them places that straddle the modern world and the old world at the same time?? I bet you one of them that "own" his wife !!!!

Fortune telling is nothing but mumbo jumbo and if the Thai government base its decicions on that crap shows they not too smart !!! I can see issan villagers stuck in the stuff but people who are supposetly educated and qualified to run the place !!!!

and I am sure glad I am not one of your kids !!! What if the sooth sayer tells you I am evil and got to be disposed of ?

Is life alone not enough? Did you even consider what I said? If I hadnt given him up for adoption, another child would not have been born. Isnt it better to have created four lives then to have created only 3 lives? And it is very stupid to say that his troubles have come from being in an adoption home and not the planned destination of his soul. He suffers from two different personality disorders - these cannot come jusr from being in an adoption home enviroment. He was born with these disorders. If we accepted him as our son, it would have disrupted our other children and it is possible that he would have passed the personality disorders onto them or brought those hidden genes in them out. So again, all evidence leads to it having been the correct decision. My wife is half Indian and yes, we did consult a series of fortune tellers and shaman types on the decision. They analyzed both my wife, myself and our son and our energy was not moving in the same ways. Although we gave him up after this, we would still send him gifts and allowed him to keep the same last name as us.

[OlRedEyes]

jsut because you dont believe in fortune telling doesnt mean that it doesnt work or isnt valid. i have based many life decisions on fortune tellers. i actually gave up my second child for adoption because it was going to be unlucky. my next two children were both predicted to be very great people and that has turned out correct so far. the one who went to adoption has had problems ever since, which goes to show you.

where the hel_l are you from?? India or another of them places that straddle the modern world and the old world at the same time?? I bet you one of them that "own" his wife !!!!

Fortune telling is nothing but mumbo jumbo and if the Thai government base its decicions on that crap shows they not too smart !!! I can see issan villagers stuck in the stuff but people who are supposetly educated and qualified to run the place !!!!

and I am sure glad I am not one of your kids !!! What if the sooth sayer tells you I am evil and got to be disposed of ?

Is life alone not enough? Did you even consider what I said? If I hadnt given him up for adoption, another child would not have been born. Isnt it better to have created four lives then to have created only 3 lives? And it is very stupid to say that his troubles have come from being in an adoption home and not the planned destination of his soul. He suffers from two different personality disorders - these cannot come jusr from being in an adoption home enviroment. He was born with these disorders. If we accepted him as our son, it would have disrupted our other children and it is possible that he would have passed the personality disorders onto them or brought those hidden genes in them out. So again, all evidence leads to it having been the correct decision. My wife is half Indian and yes, we did consult a series of fortune tellers and shaman types on the decision. They analyzed both my wife, myself and our son and our energy was not moving in the same ways. Although we gave him up after this, we would still send him gifts and allowed him to keep the same last name as us.

You are one sad sod. What scares me is the world is filled with deluded, superstitious and religious sods like you. And they don't seem to evolve. Maybe time to sacrifice some of them to pacify the gods and spirits.

[chuchok]

there are 6 billion people on this earth, saying that someone 'made' a child is pretty silly. everything in this universe is made up of particles, so God or the 'design' of this world is the one who made David.

if i had not given him for adoption, i would not have had two more children, i would have only had one. that means that him going to adoption, allowed our fourth child to be born. think about that for a moment if you will.

if you decide to keep a child it will change your life and your home forever. one has to consult the maner and degree inwhich they reside to determine the luck of the baby and whether or not it should be allowed in your home or raised outside of the home.

we do see david semi-often, less so since we came to thailand but still atleast once a year.

regardless, not everyone is an american so you should open yourself up to more liberal thinking and think of the universe in its molecular form.

Nice troll

[kmart]

This nonsense isn't restricted to LOS. When Reagan was pres of the US, he and Nancy used her astrologer. Who knows why things are decided at the at the highest levels?

And of course in Myanmar the leaders moved their capital on the advice of a forune teller. Maybe the Thai Generals are planning to move from Bangkok and are currently consulting as to where.

Moving your capital city would probably necessitate the use of a "Feng Shui" consultant rather than an Astologist. You'd want your skyscrapers, temples and other buildings facing the right way to harness the positive energy and all, no?

A good friend of mine swore on the magical powers of various amulets to keep him safe from harm and bad luck. I recently shot him to disprove his theories. - In the leg, mind... Luckily, he later saw the funny side.

Anyway must run. We've got the monks coming in to bless our new fridge. Bye.

[dkstoney]

Just ignore him/her and stay on topic.

Fortune-tellers, ghosts, amulets, spirit houses, ribbons wrapped around trees, food offerings, burnt offerings, residential exorcisms, magical haircuts, moles with extra-long hairs, trees and turtle shells that reveal lottery numbers, and on and on and on. This is the culture here and it certainly is not Buddhism. It's animism brought from the jungle and into the city. It's no different than blessing someone when they sneeze, refusing to open an umbrella indoors, changing course when a black cat crosses your path, making sure not to walk under ladders, throwing spilt salt over your right shoulder, washing the shards of a recently broken mirror, concious observance of Friday the 13th, Easter, Christmas, St. Patrick's Day, Halloween, and on and on and on. And it may be hard to fathom, but there are an awful lot of people in Western society that abide and observe these days and situations along with a whole slew of other things. Maybe instead of knocking them for their "mumbo jumbo" and all that, we can learn about ourselves from the outside with a little more ease. Maybe we should be looking for reflections of ourselves so that we can change the things that we don't like.

[Plus]

I do not fully subscribe to butterfly effect theory, but everything has effect on everything else throught the chain of connected events. We don't have scientific proof of links between position of the planets at birth and child's natural disposition and hiddent talents, but it doesn't mean they don't exist. Astrologers rely on empiric evidence - they don't know WHY it works, but they know it does.

Back on topic - there's no topic at all - Sonthi denied visiting or even planning to visit that fortune teller.

[Mid]

Sonthi denied visiting or even planning to visit that fortune teller.

wrong man in the wrong job ,

denial , smile

the damage HAS ALREADY been done .............................

[Ping]

Superstition is a part of the culture here. I recently drove my brother in law to a temple in the mountains to get our shop sign blessed. Monks were holding a ceremony there and it seemed that a whole sub-culture existed buying, selling and comparing amulets flags and other good luck charms. At the end of the ceremony may people bought flags or carried away bottles of blessed muddy water. Now I don't profess to know much about Buddhism, but the behaviour I observed was pure idolatry and superstition, sadly this seems to permeate the whole Country and rather than exhibiting hard work, thrift and self reliance many sadly would rather rely on a 'Rich without reasons' medallion or some crumbling relic of a farrang just because he comes with added wallet. Sad really.

Nope, it's not Buddhism. Superstitions were around long before Buddhism came to Thailand. In fact, strictly speaking Buddhism is opposed to superstition. It just melded into a 'best fit' situation and that's what you have today - a mix, over a long period, of superstition and Buddhism such that the division between the two is nebulous.

Before the flamers start, I admit to being no expert on this subject (and I have no intention of researching for the purpose of a reponse to this thread) but that is my understanding. Anyone who can provide some more authoritative advice would be appreciated.

[Maxi101]

Quote

jsut because you dont believe in fortune telling doesnt mean that it doesnt work or isnt valid. i have based many life decisions on fortune tellers. i actually gave up my second child for adoption because it was going to be unlucky. my next two children were both predicted to be very great people and that has turned out correct so far. the one who went to adoption has had problems ever since, which goes to show you

*************************

First i thought this is a nice example for selffullfilling prophecy and entirely sarcastic, but the longer you hold on the more I get the impression that you are serious .....

so serious that it might be good to suggest that you are looking for professional help and not for a fortuneteller. You eyes might pop!

[Plus]

Sonthi denied visiting or even planning to visit that fortune teller.

wrong man in the wrong job ,

denial , smile

the damage HAS ALREADY been done .............................

What else is he supposed to do about rumors? Acc. to Bangkok Post last week was full of gossip, including one about killing one of the junta generals.

It's a non story, we are spending too much time on it.

[chuchok]

Back on topic - there's no topic at all - Sonthi denied visiting or even planning to visit that fortune teller.

This was from the OP.

However Gen Sonthi denied the rumour, saying he was only meeting with the fortune teller for a meal.

I wonder what he had for lunch....

[sriracha john]

The unsurpassed Master of Voodoo....

More news from the "far side" or "tales from the dark side":

BANGKOK, Thailand (AP) -- Thai Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra is taking his fight to hold onto his job all over the country and beyond -- to the netherworld.

Thaksin, who has previously accused his political foes of using black magic in their efforts to force him from office, received a gift Tuesday -- a magical elephant prod -- to help him ward off bad luck.

"I will use this prod, along with spells and talismans, to control the fierce opponents who are trying to oust me," Thaksin said during a campaign stop in the northeastern Surin province where he rode an elephant.

After his Cambodia witchdoctor visits in Buriram, "The Grand Superstition Tour" continues into Surin:

PM rides jumbo 'to fight bad luck'

Embattled caretaker Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra yesterday resorted to riding an elephant while on the campaign stump in the lower Northeast to ward off bad luck and the ''dangers'' posed to him by demonstrators camping out around Government House. Taking his political campaign to Surin yesterday, Mr Thaksin rode a 34-year-old male elephant, Phlai Bua Ban, one of the four elephants featured in the epic film ''King Naresuan the Great''.

Mr Thaksin rode the elephant for 500 metres with former Surin MP and owner of the pachyderm, Suriya Ruampattana, sitting behind him to control it.

An elephant expert said there was a traditional belief that riding an elephant would help ward off bad luck and dangers as the elephant was an auspicious animal.

''Riding on the elephant's neck, not its back, is very risky as the jumbo is not familiar with the smell of the rider. It may resist and cause the rider to fall. But the [caretaker] prime minister can ride it. It's a traditional belief that a powerful man who rides on an elephant and can control it will be shielded from all dangers,'' said the elephant expert and local scholar who is well-versed in superstitious beliefs.

Mr Suriya gave a large hook used by mahouts to control elephants as a souvenir to Mr Thaksin in the belief it would help him in his troubled time, the expert said.

Thaksin onboard his "good luck pachyderm"

Edited June 18, 2007 by sriracha john

[Tony Clifton]

The unsurpassed Master of Voodoo....

More news from the "far side" or "tales from the dark side":

BANGKOK, Thailand (AP) -- Thai Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra is taking his fight to hold onto his job all over the country and beyond -- to the netherworld.

Thaksin, who has previously accused his political foes of using black magic in their efforts to force him from office, received a gift Tuesday -- a magical elephant prod -- to help him ward off bad luck.

"I will use this prod, along with spells and talismans, to control the fierce opponents who are trying to oust me," Thaksin said during a campaign stop in the northeastern Surin province where he rode an elephant.

After his Cambodia witchdoctor visits in Buriram, "The Grand Superstition Tour" continues into Surin:

PM rides jumbo 'to fight bad luck'

Embattled caretaker Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra yesterday resorted to riding an elephant while on the campaign stump in the lower Northeast to ward off bad luck and the ''dangers'' posed to him by demonstrators camping out around Government House. Taking his political campaign to Surin yesterday, Mr Thaksin rode a 34-year-old male elephant, Phlai Bua Ban, one of the four elephants featured in the epic film ''King Naresuan the Great''.

Mr Thaksin rode the elephant for 500 metres with former Surin MP and owner of the pachyderm, Suriya Ruampattana, sitting behind him to control it.

An elephant expert said there was a traditional belief that riding an elephant would help ward off bad luck and dangers as the elephant was an auspicious animal.

''Riding on the elephant's neck, not its back, is very risky as the jumbo is not familiar with the smell of the rider. It may resist and cause the rider to fall. But the [caretaker] prime minister can ride it. It's a traditional belief that a powerful man who rides on an elephant and can control it will be shielded from all dangers,'' said the elephant expert and local scholar who is well-versed in superstitious beliefs.

Mr Suriya gave a large hook used by mahouts to control elephants as a souvenir to Mr Thaksin in the belief it would help him in his troubled time, the expert said.

Thaksin onboard his "good luck pachyderm"

Thaksin never listens, proof here even with his astrologer.

Deranged man killed after destroying famous statue

DPA, BANGKOK

Wednesday, Mar 22, 2006, Page 5

A shrine official shows what is left of the Erawan Shrine in central Bangkok yesterday after a 27-year-old man attacked it with a hammer.

PHOTO: EPA

A mentally disturbed man was beaten to death early yesterday after he destroyed a much revered Brahman statue at the Erawan Shrine -- one of Bangkok's most popular places of worship, police and eyewitnesses said.

Thanakorn Pakdeepol, 27, was found dead in a pool of blood outside the shrine shortly after he attacked the sacred image at 1am, police said. He was beaten to death with a steel bar.

"I saw him climb over the fence and use a hammer to smash the statute," said Wandee Vichai, 42, a vendor who was one of the few eyewitnesses to the incident.

"I started to scream and some trash collectors came out and chased after the man. When I caught up with them he was lying dead on the pavement," Wandee said.

Lumpinee Police Colonel Supisarn PakdeeNarunart said two suspects had been arrested for Thanakorn's slaying.

The victim's father Saiyan Pakdeepol said his son had suffered from mental illness for several years and was nervous and depressed on Monday, one of Bangkok's hottest days so far this season with temperatures reaching 39oC.

"This is a sign that if the prime minister doesn't resign the country must sacrifice blood." Samridh Kaokrieng, astrologer Saiyan said his son had a breakdown and ran out of the house at midnight.

The incident, coming at a time of great political upheaval in Thailand, was immediately hailed by some as an inauspicious sign for embattled Thai Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra.

"This is a very unlucky omen, especially since the perpetrator was crazy and was killed after committing the sacrilege," said Samridh Kaokrieng, a well-known astrologer who once served as the prime minister's private fortune teller.

"This is a sign that if the prime minister doesn't resign the country must sacrifice blood," Samridh said.

The fortune teller recently lost his job with Thaksin after he informed the premier that the stars were not in his favor and he should step down.

[Mid]

It's a non story, we are spending too much time on it.

no smoke without fire ,

my feeling is that there's an uncomfortable element in this topic for you ??