Thai G/f & Baby Visa Application Questions

[Siamesepiggster]

Hi,

I am a 40 year old Britsh National, been in Th for 8 years. Either Thurday or Friday of this week will be applying for a visitor passport for my Thai g/f and our 1 year old baby to visit the UK for 1 month. Thai g/f has had 3 previous visitor visas over the last 4 years.

I know that we need to complete two application forms - one for the baby and one for my Thai g/f, but questions are as follows;

1) Does my baby have to go to the visa application centre with my Thai g/f or can my g/f submitt both forms without a need for the baby to be present? I understand that the baby doesn't have to have the fingerprint and biometric photo taken as she is under 5 years old according to the new rules.

2) If the baby does have to go, could I take her there as her father/legal guardian rather than the mother?

3) Should both application forms be attached/submitted at the same time as they are in essence a joint application?

4) Would £7,000 showing in my Thai bank account be regarded as sufficient funds for a 4 week stay, as I don't have a job as such to demonstrate regular income (export but no registered business just yet - will set up later in the year).

Many thanks.

SP

[the scouser]

SP,

I'd lodge both applications together with one lot of supporting documentation. There is no indication from the embassy website that children under 5 will be required to attend the visa application centre, but perhaps you could check that with them.

In terms of a four-week holiday, £7000.00 should be more than sufficient. The one thing which would concern me is that if this is your sole source of funds, the embassy might question whether it is sufficient to pay for the holiday and provide for yourselves upon your return. If you, therefore, have evidence of any additional funds or income, perhaps include that with the application, too.

Scouse.

[Mahout Angrit]

One set of supporting documentation can cover the joint application but for some daft reason the fees must be on separate bank drafts.

[Mahout Angrit]

Just noticed you said you will apply Thurs/Fri this week....the VAC is not accepting applications this week. Also I guess you do not have time to get a UK passport for the babe so you wouldn't then need the visa for it.

[Siamesepiggster]

Just noticed you said you will apply Thurs/Fri this week....the VAC is not accepting applications this week. Also I guess you do not have time to get a UK passport for the babe so you wouldn't then need the visa for it.

Many thanks for the information guys. Mahout Angrit, are you sure that the VAC are not accepting applications this week? I know that they open back up on Thursday and Friday. This is the notice on the British Embassy website (shown below). Please let me know if I have missed something mentioned elsewhere. Many thanks.

SP

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Important Visa Notice

We regret to inform you that the UK Visa application centre (VFS) will be closed to all customers between 15 June and 20 June 2007. Our continuing aim is an efficient, proximate service to you, therefore, essential administration will necessitate our short term closure. Bangkok is a busy regional hub and to continue to meet service delivery commitments we need to ensure our systems and legislative frameworks accommodate all our stakeholders' requirements. We are very sorry for the inconvenience this may cause, but the closure has proved unavoidable during office hours. The VFS centre will accept applications up until the close of play on 14 June and will reopen on 21 June.

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[Mahout Angrit]

Many thanks for the information guys. Mahout Angrit, are you sure that the VAC are not accepting applications this week?

Sorry you are correct, I looked at the calendar for July. Yes they should be open. Good luck

[RalphUK]

1) Does my baby have to go to the visa application centre with my Thai g/f or can my g/f submitt both forms without a need for the baby to be present? I understand that the baby doesn't have to have the fingerprint and biometric photo taken as she is under 5 years old according to the new rules.

Have you discovered the answer. It will be of interest to others to post here when you do.

The embassy website implies a child under 5 doesn't need to attend. Some other UK embassy's websites (Austria for example) say children under 5 must attend to have a digital photo taken which I find surprising. I can't find a definitive answer on UKvisas website. I have searched under 'biometrics'

[Siamesepiggster]

1) Does my baby have to go to the visa application centre with my Thai g/f or can my g/f submitt both forms without a need for the baby to be present? I understand that the baby doesn't have to have the fingerprint and biometric photo taken as she is under 5 years old according to the new rules.

Have you discovered the answer. It will be of interest to others to post here when you do.

The embassy website implies a child under 5 doesn't need to attend. Some other UK embassy's websites (Austria for example) say children under 5 must attend to have a digital photo taken which I find surprising. I can't find a definitive answer on UKvisas website. I have searched under 'biometrics'

Hi Ralph,

I rang the Visa Application Centre on Wednesday of this week to ask them if the baby (1 year old) was required to attend for the biometric photo. The Thai who answered the phone didn't know so she went to ask her colleagues. After a rather long wait she came back and said that she would be required to attend to have here biometric photo taken but no fingerprints were required. Therefore my Thai g/f, the baby and myself went to the VAC yesterday (Thursday).

Having been shut down for four days as you can imagine the scene was rather chaotic. We arrived about 11AM and were given a numbered ticket so as to wait our turn. We couldn't enter the centre as there were too many people inside and had to wait outside. Using the ticket I calculated that there were 172 people in front of us!! We were told that the wait would be at least 3 hours and that maybe at the end of this we might have to come back tomorrow!

There was a grubby looking oldish Farang ranting relentlessly at the security guard at the entrance to the VAC about various things, as if the guard was able to sort anything out, his job was to wave his metal detecting security wand at the people entering. I asked one of the other security guards politely if I could speak to one of the managers. Shortly after a nice young lady came out and I used my silky skills to tell her that we understood why there was a queue and while we didn't at all mind waiting like the rest (blatant lie) would there be any chance whatsoever that the baby could have her biometric photo taken first so that I could take her home and then my g/f could wait in line to have both applications processed. She went back in and within 2 minutes came back out again. We were ushered in and both my g/f and baby were processed immediately! Fifteen minutes later we were all on our way home! Very lucky I guess, but politeness never hurts. We'll get the decision on Monday. The irony was though that the baby didn't require to have her biometric photo taken after all!!!

One thing I was very peeved about though when we initially approached the desk, at the entrance I was told that I couldn't enter - only my Thai g/f and our baby could. This was by a VAC member of staff, not a security guard. I explained to them that I completed the application for my baby, not my g/f, and I had signed the form, not my g/f, as the baby would be travelling with me and that any questions that they would have I would have to answer, not my g/f. But they point blank refused. I think that this was totally wrong. But anyway, as I described above, this turned out to be irrelevant in the end.

Another irony and slight peeve I have is that since the British Embassy have now subcontracted out the visa application process, a bunch of Thais now decide whether or not I, a British national, can take my British baby (already submitted application and had interview at the Embassy for her to get her British nationality - 5 months processing time) can go to my country for 4 weeks. Ah well, rant over.

Hope the above answers your question.

Regards,

SP

[the scouser]

Another irony and slight peeve I have is that since the British Embassy have now subcontracted out the visa application process, a bunch of Thais now decide whether or not I, a British national, can take my British baby (already submitted application and had interview at the Embassy for her to get her British nationality - 5 months processing time) can go to my country for 4 weeks.

SP,

At least for the time being, the application centre only takes in the applications. They are then passed to the embassy for consideration, where they are assessed by the UK-based staff. Some of the VAC staff, though, do try to give the impression that it their decision to make.

Scouse.

[RalphUK]

Thankyou for your reply Siamesepiggster. I hope you have good news on Monday.

The VACS job is simply to accept the fee and make sure the basics, the completed application form, passport, copy of ID are submitted and to check copies of documents such as bank books, housebook, land and property title against the original. They make a nice little earner from people forced to use the photocopier and commission on bank drafts. And now they take the photos and finger scans -won't belong before they charge extra for that.

I have dealt with VACS on behalf of a relative and found the two clerks I dealt with to be churlish and unhelpful with only a basic grasp of english. But that's another story. Of course I can no longer be admitted according to thier website. You should have been admitted as the childs father.

In contrast the embassy and consular staff I have had contact with have been unfailingly polite and professional.

Unfortunately the matter of taking along a child under 5 is not untirely satisfactorily resolved.

Lastly, I think you may be entitled to a British passport for your child but that is outside my experience.

Good luck

RalphGBJ (I made a mistake with RalphUK, as I do not "belong" to the UK but it appears I cannot change my moniker).

Edited June 22, 2007 by RalphUK

[RAZZELL]

One thing I was very peeved about though when we initially approached the desk, at the entrance I was told that I couldn't enter - only my Thai g/f and our baby could. This was by a VAC member of staff, not a security guard. I explained to them that I completed the application for my baby, not my g/f, and I had signed the form, not my g/f, as the baby would be travelling with me and that any questions that they would have I would have to answer, not my g/f. But they point blank refused. I think that this was totally wrong. But anyway, as I described above, this turned out to be irrelevant in the end.

Are they "allowed" to refuse you entry when accompanying the visa applicant eg a girlfriend???

RAZZ

[RalphUK]

Are they "allowed" to refuse you entry when accompanying the visa applicant eg a girlfriend???

RAZZ

Taken from UK-VAC website.

Due to security concerns, only the principal applicant will be allowed to enter the application centre. However, interpreters are allowed to accompany physically challenged applicants.

Before biometrics only one person, the applicant or representative, was allowed in. A nuisance but not a problem as no one is going to be interviewed. Some are needlessly, but understandably, intimidated.

Nowhere near enough seats outside the centre but Regent House, in which it is located, has space to hang around and is fully air-con.

[teacher]

Just noticed you said you will apply Thurs/Fri this week....the VAC is not accepting applications this week. Also I guess you do not have time to get a UK passport for the babe so you wouldn't then need the visa for it.

No he will not have time to get his baby a passport.

You have said your baby does that mean that the baby carries your surname on it's birth certificate?

I really dont understand why on earth you have not already registered his baby? You have had a year to do it, and for all the benifits that it carries to have dual nationality.

Unfortunately you should have done this within the first year the baby was born and, you dont even have to be married now.

Under 5 year olds do not need to be finger/hand printed.

[RalphUK]

Just noticed you said you will apply Thurs/Fri this week....the VAC is not accepting applications this week. Also I guess you do not have time to get a UK passport for the babe so you wouldn't then need the visa for it.

No he will not have time to get his baby a passport.

You have said your baby does that mean that the baby carries your surname on it's birth certificate?

I really dont understand why on earth you have not already registered his baby? You have had a year to do it, and for all the benifits that it carries to have dual nationality.

Unfortunately you should have done this within the first year the baby was born and, you dont even have to be married now.

Under 5 year olds do not need to be finger/hand printed.

I don't think Mahout Angrit is claiming the child as his own. Nor do I see why he should register another man's child? Are you hinting at a scandal here?

Whatever I don't think the OP deserves a lecture even if he could pass on his nationality which he can't.

If the baby is a year old it was born before July 2006 in which case the father cannot pass on his British nationality as he was not married to the mother.

I am not aware of a requirement to register a birth at the embassy within the first year.

[RalphUK]

Sorry -duplicate post deleted

Edited June 24, 2007 by RalphUK

[Siamesepiggster]

Sorry -duplicate post deleted

Already applied for British Nationality for the baby. There was a 2 month initial wait to submit the application and have a short interview at the British Embassy, now have to wait a further 5 months which is the processing time. My name was on the Thai Birth Certificate.

SP

[the scouser]

From the circumstances you've described, your child has no automatic entitlement to British citizenship, so you're applying to register him. If your child had been born on or after 1 July 2006, he would have automatically acquired British citizenship at birth, so I wouldn't foresee any problems with the registration.

Scouse.

[RalphUK]

Sorry -duplicate post deleted

Already applied for British Nationality for the baby. There was a 2 month initial wait to submit the application and have a short interview at the British Embassy, now have to wait a further 5 months which is the processing time. My name was on the Thai Birth Certificate.

SP

Out of curiosity. When was your child born. I assume before 1/7/06 and you are relying on the "Home Secretary's Discretion".

My understanding was this was usually only granted when the parents subsequently married. Marriage is of couse no longer a criteria for births after 1/7/06 and I wonder why it wasn't made retrospective.

But a very interesting topic and I have little doubt relevant to other forum members who may be interested in any info given you by the embassy.

Edit: spelling -again! AND AGAIN

Edited June 25, 2007 by RalphUK

[Siamesepiggster]

Sorry -duplicate post deleted

Already applied for British Nationality for the baby. There was a 2 month initial wait to submit the application and have a short interview at the British Embassy, now have to wait a further 5 months which is the processing time. My name was on the Thai Birth Certificate.

SP

Out of curiosity. When was your child born. I assume before 1/7/06 and you are relying on the "Home Secretary's Discretion".

My understanding was this was usually only granted when the parents subsequently married. Marriage is of couse no longer a criteria for births after 1/7/06 and I wonder why it wasn't made retrospective.

But a very interesting topic and I have little doubt relevant to other forum members who may be interested in any info given you by the embassy.

Edit: spelling -again! AND AGAIN

Hi,

Yes, the baby was born before 1/7/06 (by a few days!!) and I'm 'relying on the Home Secretary's discretion'. Don't know where you got your understanding that "this was usually only granted when the parents subsequently married". I have thoroughly researched this subject and never come across such a reference. I'm sure that Scouse could confirm this or otherwise. If what you say is correct it would be very useful if you could post the relevant text and the source/reference. Many thanks.

SP

[RalphUK]

I am no expert and do not claim to be. But the issue of registering illegitimate child (UK father) is fascinating and has compelled me to research just a little.

I find it outrageous that Leaflet BN4 (Immigration and Nationalty directorate) 'British citizenship - children born outside the United Kingdom' still states 'B. Women can pass on their British citizenship to illegitimate children, but men cannot'. This is plainly wrong and was wrong even before 1/7/06.

My understanding:

Since 1981 citizenship has normally been allowed (UK govt published assertion - not mine) albeit at Home Secretarys discretion, provided their was sufficient compelling evidence of paternity.

An intention of the 2002 Immigration and Nationality Act was to permit automatic right to citizenship for illegitimate children (UK fathers) but the required regulations concerning proof of paternity were not issued and the relevant part of the Act remained pending, so to speak. Pressure from the House of Lords in January 2006 compelled the Govt to finally issue the appropriate regulations. They decided that a birth certifcate giving the UK father's name issued within 1 year of birth is sufficient proof of paternity. Wow. Took them 4 years to decide that.

I am certain the OP will have no problems.

[RalphUK]

Sorry -duplicate post deleted

Already applied for British Nationality for the baby. There was a 2 month initial wait to submit the application and have a short interview at the British Embassy, now have to wait a further 5 months which is the processing time. My name was on the Thai Birth Certificate.

SP

Out of curiosity. When was your child born. I assume before 1/7/06 and you are relying on the "Home Secretary's Discretion".

My understanding was this was usually only granted when the parents subsequently married. Marriage is of couse no longer a criteria for births after 1/7/06 and I wonder why it wasn't made retrospective.

But a very interesting topic and I have little doubt relevant to other forum members who may be interested in any info given you by the embassy.

Edit: spelling -again! AND AGAIN

Hi,

Yes, the baby was born before 1/7/06 (by a few days!!) and I'm 'relying on the Home Secretary's discretion'. Don't know where you got your understanding that "this was usually only granted when the parents subsequently married". I have thoroughly researched this subject and never come across such a reference. I'm sure that Scouse could confirm this or otherwise. If what you say is correct it would be very useful if you could post the relevant text and the source/reference. Many thanks.

SP

I did not deliberately ignore your question. Took me over an hour working on my last post many distractions) and you posted in the meantime.

I am wrong to state that subsequent marriage was usually the only acceptable criteria.

The critical issue was and is proof of paternity. In many countries an unmarried father of a child cannot be included on a birth certificate unless he is present. The mother may not wish him to be included. This could sometimes be remedied if the parents subsequently married. Without a name on an original or re-issued birth certifcate, I am told a father stood little chance of succeeding in an application to the Home Secretary.

I cannot substantiate this.

It is this issue which I have clearly misunderstood but if my error elicits corrections and contradictions which allow the forum to be correctly informed then I have done some good (Yes -a pitiful excuse for posting inaccuracies).

Even now a certificate must have been issued within one year of the birth to ensure automatic acceptance.

[the scouser]

Even now a certificate must have been issued within one year of the birth to ensure automatic acceptance.

That is not so.

Registration under section 3(2) of the British Nationality Act 1981 does require registration within one year of the child's birth, but there is nothing preventing SP's daughter applying under section 3(1) for which there is no limitation other than that the child is a minor. Indeed, if SP is not British by descent, his child would not be able to seek registration under the provisions of 3(2).

SP is under no obligation to marry his partner in order for his child to be registered as a Brit cit, and, given that had the child been born post 30/6/06 she probably would have had a claim to automatic acquisition, it would be perverse and without the spirit of the legislation for the Home Sec. to not now allow the child's registration.

Scouse.

[RalphUK]

Even now a certificate must have been issued within one year of the birth to ensure automatic acceptance.

That is not so

Registration under section 3(2) of the British Nationality Act 1981 does require registration within one year of the child's birth, but there is nothing preventing SP's daughter applying under section 3(1) for which there is no limitation other than that the child is a minor. Indeed, if SP is not British by descent, his child would not be able to seek registration under the provisions of 3(2).

SP is under no obligation to marry his partner in order for his child to be registered as a Brit cit, and, given that had the child been born post 30/6/06 she probably would have had a claim to automatic acquisition, it would be perverse and without the spirit of the legislation for the Home Sec. to not now allow the child's registration.

Scouse.

I believe I was correct

SP may very well not qualify under Section 3(2), and may be applying under Section 3(1). However I was not refering to the twelve months registration quoted in Section 3(2) which for all practical purposes can be extended to 6 years. In the context of my post I was referring to the birth certificate.

1. These Regulations may be cited as the British Nationality (Proof of Paternity) Regulations 2006 and shall come into force on 1st July 2006.

2. The following requirements are prescribed as to proof of paternity for the purposes of section 50(9A)© of the British Nationality Act 1981—

(a) the person must be named as the father of the child in a birth certificate issued within one year of the date of the child's birth; or the person must satisfy the Secretary of State that he is the father of the child.

I had already contradicted amother poster who claimed registration was required within a year.

As previously said it took 4 years for 2006 regulations to be issued -so you are quite correct any refusal by Home Sec would be preverse.

Edited to delete a smiley which mysteriously appeared

Edited June 25, 2007 by RalphUK