Visa Extensions For Newlywed

[HAL9000]

Hi,

I am flying to Thailand July 13 and getting married July 17. I've read a lot of posts here but still find the issue of marrying a Thai and living permanently in Thailand to be a confusing topic.

Based on advice from this forum, I did obtain a 90 day Non-Immigrant "O" Visa.

My fiancee and I are very worried about my being able to reliably receive regular visa extensions so we can stay married together.

It is my understanding that before my 90 day stay is up I must go to immigration and apply for the one-year extension of stay based on marriage, and that I must renew each year.

What is not clear to me is exactly what I need to qualify for these regular renewals.

It looks like we are looking at a 40,000 baht average monthly income requirement. Is that the only financial requrement?

Are there documents to be presented or other requirements that must be met?

What happens if our income falls a little short? Will I be deported and our marriage ended?

My fiancee is very worried about anything separating us. At the same time, she feels the rules are flexible and that no Thai immigration official would expel us if we are in a good faith marriage.

Can anyone shed some light on this?

Thanks,

John

[lopburi3]

You can extend your stay after marriage for 60 days using a special one time provision. After that you will need non immigrant O visas like you currently have or extend your stay at Immigration on a yearly basis as you mention. That will require proof of 40k family income for the previous three months every time it is renewed. Believe you will also require local bank account/bank letter, copies of your passport/entry card, copies of wife id and home register, photo together inside and outside residence and showing the house number and clothing together. Wife will also have to be with you and sign paperwork each time. If over age 50 the are other options.

[HAL9000]

Thanks for your help. I am 52 years old. I did avoid the retirement visa option as I understood that visa does not lead to permanent residency, plus the income requirement is higher, I believe 65K. Hopefully they won't hold me to this higher requirement just because I'm 52 even though I am not retired.

It looks like the permanent residence permit is the only way out of annual visa renewals. Of course, that is a challenge in itself with having to be proficient in the Thai language and it is expensive too. Hopefully we will have the funds remaining by the time I am eligible to apply in three years.

Our main concern for the moment is that we can make enough in our little english workshop to cover the 45K income requirement. Right now my fiancee is averaging 30K per month. Hopefully we can bring that up the the necessary 45K and save enough for the permanant residence permit in the next three years.

You can extend your stay after marriage for 60 days using a special one time provision. After that you will need non immigrant O visas like you currently have or extend your stay at Immigration on a yearly basis as you mention. That will require proof of 40k family income for the previous three months every time it is renewed. Believe you will also require local bank account/bank letter, copies of your passport/entry card, copies of wife id and home register, photo together inside and outside residence and showing the house number and clothing together. Wife will also have to be with you and sign paperwork each time. If over age 50 the are other options.

[astral]

Hi,

I am flying to Thailand July 13 and getting married July 17.

Before you can get legally married at the Amphur office you need to make

a Declaration that you are free to marry, at your embassy, then get it translated into

Thai and stamped my the Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

Have you left enough time to do this?

I see you arrive on a Friday, and expect to get married on the next Tuesday.

The ceremony with the monks is NOT a legal marriage.

Good luck.

If you cannot meet the monthly requirement of 40K family income,

your visa will not be extended and you may find yourself being told to leave Thailand.

You will not be deported, but must leave when your visa expires.

They will not dissolve your marriage, but you will have to look at living apart,

or taking your wife to your home country.

[phutoie2]

[ photo together inside and outside residence and showing the house number and clothing together.

I thought this business about a photo of the wedding and proof of living together was a wind up at first, however on my extension application the immigration officer (Suan phlu did ask if we had a photo of our recent wedding. My wife explained it was at the local amphur (Don Muang) and we had no photo's, but we would be marrying in the family home later that year.

This apparently was accepted and no further discussion on the subject.

I must add that my financial affairs (the 40,000 baht Q) was the main critera being examined!!

Good luck John on your plans and perhaps take those pictures

[HAL9000]

Right. We are spending the following week in Bangkok to do the embassy visit, required translations, and civil marriage registration.

I just find it heartless that there is no respect for a couple to struggle together to make it financially. As long as she and I are happy with our income, what difference does it make to the authorities?

Thanks for your response.

Before you can get legally married at the Amphur office you need to make

a Declaration that you are free to marry, at your embassy, then get it translated into

Thai and stamped my the Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

Have you left enough time to do this?

I see you arrive on a Friday, and expect to get married on the next Tuesday.

The ceremony with the monks is NOT a legal marriage.

Good luck.

If you cannot meet the monthly requirement of 40K family income,

your visa will not be extended and you may find yourself being told to leave Thailand.

You will not be deported, but must leave when your visa expires.

They will not dissolve your marriage, but you will have to look at living apart,

or taking your wife to your home country.

[astral]

My wife made sure we invited a few local policemen and dignitaries to our marriage ceremony.

We also made sure they showed up in the photos.

[HAL9000]

Oh, that's nice. My fiancee's family is well connected in Sukhothai, so there will be lot's photos of that type. The wedding will be videotaped too.

I was thinking about what you said about possibly being forced to leave the country. I hope it doesn't come to that. My fiancee's hopes and dreams are all tied up with making our english workshop succeed, and she wants to be there to care for her parents as they age.

My wife made sure we invited a few local policemen and dignitaries to our marriage ceremony.

We also made sure they showed up in the photos.

[astral]

My fiancee's hopes and dreams are all tied up with making our english workshop succeed, and she wants to be there to care for her parents as they age.

I hope you have thought through the Work Permit side so you can help in the "English Workshop"?

[HAL9000]

I hope you have thought through the Work Permit side so you can help in the "English Workshop"?

I was wondering how that works. My fiancee will be listing me as joint owner of the workshop, which I guess makes me a businessman instead of a worker. Does that require the same work permit?

I presume I apply in country once I am there if a work permit is required. I guess I can work for free in the meantime?

[lopburi3]

After marriage you can extend your stay for 60 days using below section of National Police Order 606/2-006

7.23 In case of entering for

visiting a Thai wife /

husband or child.

The permission shall be

granted only one time with

the granted period not

exceeding 60 days.

If you are not able to extend your stay further (40k method) you can always obtain a non immigrant O visa at a Consulate and return for 90 days using that. If you obtain visa in home country it can often be multi entry for a period of one year. You can also obtain multi entry in Singapore with proof of 400k or more in a bank account. If you are married you are not going to be told to split - but you are expected to live on visa entry if you do not take wife to home country and can not meet the 40k family income extensions of stay.

As for PR I suggest you read the pinned item as most approvals seem to require a history of tax payments well above the 40k level.

[astral]

I hope you have thought through the Work Permit side so you can help in the "English Workshop"?

I was wondering how that works. My fiancee will be listing me as joint owner of the workshop, which I guess makes me a businessman instead of a worker. Does that require the same work permit?

I presume I apply in country once I am there if a work permit is required. I guess I can work for free in the meantime?

I suggest you start by reading this page.

The contact Sunbelt for their advise.

The outcome could affect your entire plan.

[TerryLH]

I didn't see it mentioned, maybe I missed it, but you'll also have to show immigration your marriage certificate.

Terry

[HAL9000]

If you are married you are not going to be told to split - but you are expected to live on visa entry if you do not take wife to home country and can not meet the 40k family income extensions of stay.

This is the best news I have heard to date. It takes a lot of anxiety off my mind. Thanks for sharing your knowledge and experience.

[HAL9000]

I didn't see it mentioned, maybe I missed it, but you'll also have to show immigration your marriage certificate.

Terry

Thanks Terry. I'll be sure to have it in tow.

John

[stevehaigh]

most of my married freinds here don't have the 40k/mth income so they live here on non-imm O visas and go to penang every 3mths. have done for years.

i doubt your english workshop income will count since i doubt either of you is paying tax on that income and without that, there is no proof of income. and without a WP, you are breaking the law anyhow so i would keep quiet about that.

steve

[owen01]

Hi,

I am flying to Thailand July 13 and getting married July 17.

Before you can get legally married at the Amphur office you need to make

a Declaration that you are free to marry, at your embassy, then get it translated into

Thai and stamped my the Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

Have you left enough time to do this?

I see you arrive on a Friday, and expect to get married on the next Tuesday.

Doesn't this delaration have to be made a minimum of 4 weeks before the wedding ??? (and a max of 12)

[torrenova]

So how does this work:

You get the 40k per month but does this have to be net ? Do you have to officially pay tax on it ? But only the wife could work as the husband's requirement would be 50k plus all the company crap no ? What is the husband supposed to be doing, just sitting in the rocking chair waiting to die ?

How does a self employed person pay tax on 40k ? Some months you make more than others but the tax is due only on an annual amount.

Also, as a trader, she may run down an inventory which looks like more profits but then when inventory levels are restored, it looks like you are making less money. How can you deal with that if you have to go show them every three months. Do you really have to go every 3 months ?

[Lite Beer]

Hi,

I am flying to Thailand July 13 and getting married July 17.

Before you can get legally married at the Amphur office you need to make

a Declaration that you are free to marry, at your embassy, then get it translated into

Thai and stamped my the Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

Have you left enough time to do this?

I see you arrive on a Friday, and expect to get married on the next Tuesday.

Doesn't this delaration have to be made a minimum of 4 weeks before the wedding ??? (and a max of 12)

No.

[astral]

Doesn't this delaration have to be made a minimum of 4 weeks before the wedding ??? (and a max of 12)

No.

Once the declaration is done, translated and certified you are free to get married immediately.

So how does this work:

You get the 40k per month but does this have to be net ? Do you have to officially pay tax on it ? But only the wife could work as the husband's requirement would be 50k plus all the company crap no ? What is the husband supposed to be doing, just sitting in the rocking chair waiting to die ?

How does a self employed person pay tax on 40k ? Some months you make more than others but the tax is due only on an annual amount.

Also, as a trader, she may run down an inventory which looks like more profits but then when inventory levels are restored, it looks like you are making less money. How can you deal with that if you have to go show them every three months. Do you really have to go every 3 months ?

Running her own business she will need to show her tax return from last year, showing an average GROSS income of 40K per month.

We are talking personal income here, not what the business makes.

The husband does not have to sit by, he may also have an income that contributes to the 40K of FAMILY income.

[owen01]

Doesn't this delaration have to be made a minimum of 4 weeks before the wedding ??? (and a max of 12)

No.

Once the declaration is done, translated and certified you are free to get married immediately.

Must just be a condition for Irish nationals then - http://www.irelandinthailand.com/affidavit.html

Edited June 22, 2007 by owen01

[astral]

Yes, that must be special for the Irish.............

There is no such regulation for the British.

I see no reason why you have to wait 4 weeks. I did not.

The 12 weeks is reasonable as the Thais like documents to be current,

not "mot a ue"

[owen01]

Yes, that must be special for the Irish.............

There is no such regulation for the British.

Probably give us time to sober up and change our mind.

[HAL9000]

If you are not able to extend your stay further (40k method) you can always obtain a non immigrant O visa at a Consulate and return for 90 days using that. If you obtain visa in home country it can often be multi entry for a period of one year. You can also obtain multi entry in Singapore with proof of 400k or more in a bank account. If you are married you are not going to be told to split - but you are expected to live on visa entry if you do not take wife to home country and can not meet the 40k family income extensions of stay.

Thanks. The lady who gave me my 90 day Non Immigrant "O" said that after we are married she can give me the 1 year Non-Immigrant "O" visa. I guess I could mail my passport back the the US and have it mailed back to me.

How would that differ from me going to immigration in Thailand and getting a one year extension of stay?

Would the consul in the US mail it to me in Thailand, or does it have to be mailed to a US address?

And would the visa be valid since I did not actually leave the country and get an entry stamp on return?

And what about not being in possession of my passport while it was in the mail?

I'm not clear too how living on visa entries differs from extension of stay to the visa. I guess it means the first visa expired and so you buy a new visa. I guess a new visa is easier because I was only asked to show $1000 US on deposit in my bank.

Singapore with 400K. I have $100K US in my federal retirement account. Does that count? It is US based, and it cannot be accessed since it is for retirement.

The work permit seems to be falling through as I just learned of the 2 million baht capitalization requirement of our english workshop. I misspoke on an earlier post on this thread when I said she currently makes about 30000 baht monthly. It is 12000. As a workshop geared towards primary age children, it is barely above a daycare center and she has few children coming. 2 million is an impossibility unless they count my retirement account.

Thanks for everyone's thoughts.

John

[beechguy]

If you are not able to extend your stay further (40k method) you can always obtain a non immigrant O visa at a Consulate and return for 90 days using that. If you obtain visa in home country it can often be multi entry for a period of one year. You can also obtain multi entry in Singapore with proof of 400k or more in a bank account. If you are married you are not going to be told to split - but you are expected to live on visa entry if you do not take wife to home country and can not meet the 40k family income extensions of stay.

Thanks. The lady who gave me my 90 day Non Immigrant "O" said that after we are married she can give me the 1 year Non-Immigrant "O" visa. I guess I could mail my passport back the the US and have it mailed back to me.

How would that differ from me going to immigration in Thailand and getting a one year extension of stay?

Would the consul in the US mail it to me in Thailand, or does it have to be mailed to a US address?

And would the visa be valid since I did not actually leave the country and get an entry stamp on return?

And what about not being in possession of my passport while it was in the mail?

I'm not clear too how living on visa entries differs from extension of stay to the visa. I guess it means the first visa expired and so you buy a new visa. I guess a new visa is easier because I was only asked to show $1000 US on deposit in my bank.

Singapore with 400K. I have $100K US in my federal retirement account. Does that count? It is US based, and it cannot be accessed since it is for retirement.

The work permit seems to be falling through as I just learned of the 2 million baht capitalization requirement of our english workshop. I misspoke on an earlier post on this thread when I said she currently makes about 30000 baht monthly. It is 12000. As a workshop geared towards primary age children, it is barely above a daycare center and she has few children coming. 2 million is an impossibility unless they count my retirement account.

Thanks for everyone's thoughts.

John

I would not send the passport out of the country! For now, I would try for the one-time 60 day extension Lopburi3 mentioned. Then go to some other country near Thailand

to get new "O" visas, until you get things more organized with your business or employment.

There are several posts about the 2 million baht capitalization, work permits, etc. You may want to do some research. Maybe it won't take the entire 2 million to accomplish what you want. Anyway, I don't think the retirement account is going to do you any good at this point.

Good luck!

[torrenova]

Doesn't this delaration have to be made a minimum of 4 weeks before the wedding ??? (and a max of 12)

No.

Once the declaration is done, translated and certified you are free to get married immediately.

So how does this work:

You get the 40k per month but does this have to be net ? Do you have to officially pay tax on it ? But only the wife could work as the husband's requirement would be 50k plus all the company crap no ? What is the husband supposed to be doing, just sitting in the rocking chair waiting to die ?

How does a self employed person pay tax on 40k ? Some months you make more than others but the tax is due only on an annual amount.

Also, as a trader, she may run down an inventory which looks like more profits but then when inventory levels are restored, it looks like you are making less money. How can you deal with that if you have to go show them every three months. Do you really have to go every 3 months ?

Running her own business she will need to show her tax return from last year, showing an average GROSS income of 40K per month.

We are talking personal income here, not what the business makes.

The husband does not have to sit by, he may also have an income that contributes to the 40K of FAMILY income.

I don't get this. The husband can contribute to the 40k per month but he is not allowed to work unless he gets a salary of 50k per month (to get a WP). So how does that work in practice ?

As for previous tax returns, what happens if the current income is 40k but there was nothing last year ? Surely the visa has to be based on current income or you could earn one year and then stop, thus earning nothing now.

Any pointers to what the real accurate decisive rules are ?

Thanks

[lopburi3]

There is no requirement to earn 50k that I know of. There is a requirement for one year extensions of stay in that area but it varies by nationality.

The rule is 40k and how they verify that is up to Immigration. Currently is seems to be last years tax paperwork.

The rules are in Police Order 606/2006 which you can download and read from pinned item at top of forum.

[lopburi3]

If you are not able to extend your stay further (40k method) you can always obtain a non immigrant O visa at a Consulate and return for 90 days using that. If you obtain visa in home country it can often be multi entry for a period of one year. You can also obtain multi entry in Singapore with proof of 400k or more in a bank account. If you are married you are not going to be told to split - but you are expected to live on visa entry if you do not take wife to home country and can not meet the 40k family income extensions of stay.

Thanks. The lady who gave me my 90 day Non Immigrant "O" said that after we are married she can give me the 1 year Non-Immigrant "O" visa. I guess I could mail my passport back the the US and have it mailed back to me.

Not possible. You can not obtain a new visa from another country while in Thailand.

How would that differ from me going to immigration in Thailand and getting a one year extension of stay?

It would only allow 90 day stay - you would have to exit/enter at the end of each stay.

Would the consul in the US mail it to me in Thailand, or does it have to be mailed to a US address?

The Consul should not even stamp it - they would not mail to Thailand.

And would the visa be valid since I did not actually leave the country and get an entry stamp on return?

No. It would be an invalid document.

And what about not being in possession of my passport while it was in the mail?

You will likely stay in jail until it is obtained if found out.

I'm not clear too how living on visa entries differs from extension of stay to the visa. I guess it means the first visa expired and so you buy a new visa. I guess a new visa is easier because I was only asked to show $1000 US on deposit in my bank.

Extension of stay requires 40k monthly family income. Visa may require none to proof of 400k in a bank account. Visa entry does not qualify for permanent residence.

Singapore with 400K. I have $100K US in my federal retirement account. Does that count? It is US based, and it cannot be accessed since it is for retirement.

The want a bank account statement within 30 days.

The work permit seems to be falling through as I just learned of the 2 million baht capitalization requirement of our english workshop. I misspoke on an earlier post on this thread when I said she currently makes about 30000 baht monthly. It is 12000. As a workshop geared towards primary age children, it is barely above a daycare center and she has few children coming. 2 million is an impossibility unless they count my retirement account.

If you qualify for teaching you might be able to obtain a work permit for that from a school.

Thanks for everyone's thoughts.

John

[HAL9000]

You can extend your stay after marriage for 60 days using a special one time provision. After that you will need non immigrant O visas like you currently have or extend your stay at Immigration on a yearly basis as you mention. That will require proof of 40k family income for the previous three months every time it is renewed. Believe you will also require local bank account/bank letter, copies of your passport/entry card, copies of wife id and home register, photo together inside and outside residence and showing the house number and clothing together. Wife will also have to be with you and sign paperwork each time. If over age 50 the are other options.

I am late following up on this. I am 52 years old, US citizen in the US coming to Thailand. I didn't ask about your over 50 comment because I understood the retirement visa is not right for me since I am marrying a Thai woman and I intend to work. Is there something I should know about the over 50 options?

Thanks,

John

[lopburi3]

If you intend to work the retirement would not work for you as they are no longer providing work permits for that extension. If you decide not to work it requires 800k in a Bank account located in Thailand for the previous three months, or 65k pension per month or a combination of the two.