Any way to know if the vaccine has been updated ? I won't inject old stuff if ineffective for new virus

[webulo]

hello, is there a way to know if the vaccine has been updated ? I do not want to inject the old one as it seems that it should be updated to fight new variants ?

 

[Scott]

The 'old' stock is most likely not useless for you or most people.  It still goes a very long way from preventing you from getting seriously ill and it does help to prevent infection in the first place, but is less effective in prevention than was originally expected.

 

I believe the upgrades will be coming.  Moderna will be introducing a bivalent vaccine which produces antigens for both the original strain and Omicron.  I don't know when it will be on the market, but I suspect sometime in the fall.  

[KhunBENQ]

8 minutes ago, Scott said:

I don't know when it will be on the market, but I suspect sometime in the fall.  

That's what is published in Germany.

Whether it will be necessary and I would take a fourth shot is a different matter.

[TorquayFan]

Webulo - Scott is correct IMO.

 

There are no improved updated vaccines available yet. Have you had 2 or 3 doses?

 

If you are contemplating a 4th, (Pfizer, Moderna, AZ), I wouldn't be too quick myself - I'm waiting 6 months after my 3rd for the 4th. It seems immunity from the 4th booster falls after a shorter period.

 

That said with 3 on board, I caught a 2nd dose a few weeks ago, (mild symptoms only). Whether a 4th dose would have saved me who knows?

 

But the 4th booster should help you avoid infection, marginally I suspect, and it certainly helps to moderate any symptoms.

 

Moderna claim their new vaccine covers existing variants which is great BUT the real concern, is to find protection against new variants, as they arise.

 

Here's a recent statement from CEPI who have long promoted the need for 2nd generation Covid vaccines : "Multiple safe and effective COVID-19 vaccines are now globally available. But there is still substantial scope to optimize and improve the design and use of these vaccines to maximize their global health impact and their impact in different at-risk populations (such as elderly populations or in people who are immunocompromised) who may respond in different ways to a vaccine. We can make it easier to deploy vaccines through regimens of single-dose instead of multiple-dose vaccines, especially in countries with transient populations or weaker health systems, or in high-risk environments such as refugee camps. And developing vaccines that don’t require challenging cold-chain requirements would help in low-resource settings that lack this infrastructure." - https://cepi.net/news_cepi/why-the-covid-19-rd-job-is-not-finished/

 

Here's one 'Universal' candidate on trial in RSA atm : https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/history/NCT05047445

 

AIMHO

 

 

Edited June 10, 2022 by TorquayFan

[internationalism]

the last year thai government promised, that moderna in 2022 will be only the new generation.

Even the private hospitals were mentioning they would try to get the second generation.

I think nothing from moderna plans materialised so far.

I would wait for a booster sometimes before the next potential wave.

In the meantime do flu, some other vax for lungs (if of certain age or with medical conditions) and talk to dr about some other once

Edited June 10, 2022 by internationalism

[placnx]

On 6/10/2022 at 12:27 PM, TorquayFan said:

Webulo - Scott is correct IMO.

 

There are no improved updated vaccines available yet. Have you had 2 or 3 doses?

 

If you are contemplating a 4th, (Pfizer, Moderna, AZ), I wouldn't be too quick myself - I'm waiting 6 months after my 3rd for the 4th. It seems immunity from the 4th booster falls after a shorter period.

 

That said with 3 on board, I caught a 2nd dose a few weeks ago, (mild symptoms only). Whether a 4th dose would have saved me who knows?

 

But the 4th booster should help you avoid infection, marginally I suspect, and it certainly helps to moderate any symptoms.

 

Moderna claim their new vaccine covers existing variants which is great BUT the real concern, is to find protection against new variants, as they arise.

 

Here's a recent statement from CEPI who have long promoted the need for 2nd generation Covid vaccines : "Multiple safe and effective COVID-19 vaccines are now globally available. But there is still substantial scope to optimize and improve the design and use of these vaccines to maximize their global health impact and their impact in different at-risk populations (such as elderly populations or in people who are immunocompromised) who may respond in different ways to a vaccine. We can make it easier to deploy vaccines through regimens of single-dose instead of multiple-dose vaccines, especially in countries with transient populations or weaker health systems, or in high-risk environments such as refugee camps. And developing vaccines that don’t require challenging cold-chain requirements would help in low-resource settings that lack this infrastructure." - https://cepi.net/news_cepi/why-the-covid-19-rd-job-is-not-finished/

 

Here's one 'Universal' candidate on trial in RSA atm : https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/history/NCT05047445

 

AIMHO

 

 

Currently the new Moderna booster has just been assessed for the level of antibodies generated a month after the jab.

"Researchers found that the levels of neutralizing antibodies against Omicron among people getting the modified shot were 1.75 times as high as in people who received a booster shot of the original vaccine, Moderna said."

https://www.wsj.com/articles/modernas-covid-19-vaccine-targeting-omicron-produces-stronger-immune-response-11654686002

 

This will be monitored a further 2 months to see how rapidly these antibodies degrade. There was no mention of a clinical trial such as was done for the initial vaccine, but proof of concept has been demonstrated. The "bivalent" formulation is hoped to be more effective against new variants. In this case bivalent refers to a design generating antibodies to the original strain as well as Omicron.

[Tony125]

On 6/10/2022 at 10:24 AM, Scott said:

The 'old' stock is most likely not useless for you or most people.  It still goes a very long way from preventing you from getting seriously ill and it does help to prevent infection in the first place, but is less effective in prevention than was originally expected.

 

I believe the upgrades will be coming.  Moderna will be introducing a bivalent vaccine which produces antigens for both the original strain and Omicron.  I don't know when it will be on the market, but I suspect sometime in the fall.  

Moderna says updated COVID booster is superior to original

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/moderna-says-updated-covid-booster-is-superior-to-original/ar-AAYeo3L?cvid=fc2c748c5275495689cae71502f5a2ad

 

The old stock will still protect you from serious complications but not as effective as new vaccine in preventing innfection.

[Jaxxper]

Moderna is soon to release their latest version. When/if it will be available here I don’t know.

[LukKrueng]

On 6/10/2022 at 6:24 AM, Scott said:

but is less effective in prevention than was originally expected.

Of course. It was way less effective against the original variant than advertised...

[Scott]

4 hours ago, LukKrueng said:

Of course. It was way less effective against the original variant than advertised...

What 'original' variant are you referring to.  There have been a lot of variants, I don't know which one is considered the original one.  Most variants died out rather quickly.  

[placnx]

On 6/11/2022 at 10:05 PM, Scott said:

What 'original' variant are you referring to.  There have been a lot of variants, I don't know which one is considered the original one.  Most variants died out rather quickly.  

Really I refer to the virus detected in Wuhan in late 2019, on which the first vaccines including Moderna were based.

[Tony125]

Article from  The New York Times

How Long Does COVID Immunity Last? Will a Second Illness Be Worse? How Can I Prepare?

 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/long-does-covid-immunity-last-151754473.html

[Rimmer]

Troll posts removed

[TorquayFan]

Further trialing of Moderna's new vaccine continues and we don't know when it will be available in the USA and later in Thailand - maybe by next year. Meantime I noticed this report in today's DT which notes than infection with Omicron gives very little protection against re-infection.

 

""In the DT today :-

"" Catching omicron does not protect people from a future infection from the variant, Imperial College has found, as scientists said it explained why cases remain stubbornly high. Throughout the pandemic, studies have shown that a previous infection provides immunity against catching Covid again, as well as often protecting against other variants. But new research has found that there is virtually no extra immunity boost from getting omicron, leaving people at risk of being reinfected from the strain.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/06/14/catching-omicron-does-not-protect-against-future-infection-variant/

A 2nd Generation of vaccines is urgently needed . . . . . .

Edited June 16, 2022 by Scott
Edited for Fair Use

[placeholder]

On 6/15/2022 at 4:07 PM, TorquayFan said:

Further trialing of Moderna's new vaccine continues and we don't know when it will be available in the USA and later in Thailand - maybe by next year. Meantime I noticed this report in today's DT which notes than infection with Omicron gives very little protection against re-infection.

 

""In the DT today :-

"" Catching omicron does not protect people from a future infection from the variant, Imperial College has found, as scientists said it explained why cases remain stubbornly high. Throughout the pandemic, studies have shown that a previous infection provides immunity against catching Covid again, as well as often protecting against other variants. But new research has found that there is virtually no extra immunity boost from getting omicron, leaving people at risk of being reinfected from the strain.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/06/14/catching-omicron-does-not-protect-against-future-infection-variant/

A 2nd Generation of vaccines is urgently needed . . . . . .

As might be expected from the Telegraph, no mention was made of the fact that vaccination does provide enhanced protection against serious illness and death.

[TorquayFan]

Hello Place.

 

With respect and in defence of the DT on this occasion, the article was not about the vaccines - n.b. "Catching omicron does not protect people from a future infection".

 

 

 

 

 

 

[placeholder]

On 6/15/2022 at 4:07 PM, TorquayFan said:

Further trialing of Moderna's new vaccine continues and we don't know when it will be available in the USA and later in Thailand - maybe by next year. Meantime I noticed this report in today's DT which notes than infection with Omicron gives very little protection against re-infection.

 

""In the DT today :-

"" Catching omicron does not protect people from a future infection from the variant, Imperial College has found, as scientists said it explained why cases remain stubbornly high. Throughout the pandemic, studies have shown that a previous infection provides immunity against catching Covid again, as well as often protecting against other variants. But new research has found that there is virtually no extra immunity boost from getting omicron, leaving people at risk of being reinfected from the strain.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/06/14/catching-omicron-does-not-protect-against-future-infection-variant/

A 2nd Generation of vaccines is urgently needed . . . . . .

Well, there was this in there:

"They found that in people who were triple vaccinated and had no prior infection, an omicron infection provided an immune boost against previous variants such as alpha, beta, gamma, delta and the original ancestral strain, but virtually nothing against Omicron itself."

Also, you would think that they might mention that contracting Omicron may not prevent one from catching it again, but, like vaccination, it does offer protection against serious illness and death.

Here's another article about this same research that does mention the protective effects of vaccination against serious illness and death

https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/237315/omicron-infection-poor-booster-covid-19-immunity/

 

That noted you do make a point that I missed. Namely, that this article actually downplays the protective effects of being infected, contrary to what  most  Covid antivaxxers believe.

Edited June 18, 2022 by placeholder

[TorquayFan]

Placeholder - today - "Two new omicron subvariants, BA.4 and BA.5, are fuelling a new wave across Europe and the US. Early international studies suggest these strains may have evolved to evade the immune defences we’ve built from vaccination or past infection, although other evidence reassuringly suggests they do not cause more severe infection and symptoms are no different from normal."

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/health-fitness/body/rise-delta-plus-covid-cases-soaring-uk/?li_source=LI&li_medium=liftigniter-rhr

[Tony125]

‘Natural immunity’ after COVID infection might not last as long as you think. Here’s why

 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/natural-immunity-covid-infection-might-171002952.html

[Tony125]

 

New Omicron wave growing fast: ‘We were wrong to think Covid was over and vaccination is not enough’

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/opinion/new-omicron-wave-growing-fast-we-were-wrong-to-think-covid-was-over-and-vaccination-is-not-enough/ar-AAYEMbR?li=BBnb7Kz

 

 

NY Times report

Covid Cases Surge, but Deaths Stay Near Lows

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/covid-cases-surge-but-deaths-stay-near-lows/ar-AAYEUsv?li=BBnb7Kz

[Calvin1976]

Checked with Medpark Hospital yesterday for Moderna (@ 1,650 baht) for 2nd booster yesterday.

Was told vaccine received from 1st quarter 2022, consider updated version vaccine? ????

If 3 months after 1st mRNA booster, you are qualified for 2nd booster.

Edited June 28, 2022 by Calvin1976

[placnx]

On 6/28/2022 at 1:45 PM, Calvin1976 said:

Checked with Medpark Hospital yesterday for Moderna (@ 1,650 baht) for 2nd booster yesterday.

Was told vaccine received from 1st quarter 2022, consider updated version vaccine? ????

If 3 months after 1st mRNA booster, you are qualified for 2nd booster.

An updated Moderna might be available in the US in the fall. The FDA is just considering the question. Moderna already has two types tested for antibody response. One is a combo: original strain and Omicron; other is just Omicron.