Window film as an alternative to double glazing

[sometimewoodworker]

6 hours ago, unheard said:

If done right a wall constructed out of AAC bricks would be considerably more expensive labor-wise as compared to the standard red brick wall.

You'd need to go with an experienced AAC block layer or risk a possibility of the constant render cracking later on.

That is completely untrue. AAC blocks are vastly faster to lay than red bricks, while they both need string lines to ensure they are not out of plumb and that the courses are level due to the size, accurate square faces and the thinness of the glue AAC does not go out of plumb easily. An AAC block layer can be trained in very short order and when given the correct equipment is at least 3 times faster than a brick layer. ( under 3 people 3 hours vs 5 people for over 6 hours)

 

If you have ever tried to disassemble an AAC block wall that used the correct glue you would understand that your claim has no basis in fact.

 

All of that doesn’t address the ease of cutting chases, fire resistance, sound transmission, and heat transfer all of which are much better with AAC than red brick

 

here is a video produced in India however that makes no difference to the labour, though the costs will be a little different not by that much

 

 

 

Edited June 29, 2022 by sometimewoodworker

[unheard]

13 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

That is completely untrue. AAC blocks are vastly faster to lay than red bricks

You're arguing apples vs oranges.

Yes, AAC block can be layed down faster.

But...

Have you tried to price a brick laying job with AAC block vs Red brick?

Red brick is still the default wall material in Thailand!

Every brick layer knows how to do it right.

AAC blocks is a more expensive option since it requires a specially trained worker to be able to get it right, including rendering.

Trained as in the ability to build and finish the wall that doesn't have the constant cracking problem few years down the road.

Edited June 30, 2022 by unheard

[Encid]

21 hours ago, unheard said:

Like in your situation with solar... It probably won't be cost effective to go overboard with better insulating materials.

Walls, windows, ceiling, roof, doors - all contribute to thermal energy transmission.

Going "standard" would save you tons of money.

Getting back to the subject matter (although the bricks diversion was interesting and informative ) you may be right.

Save costs by going for a standard build rather than premium, and spend more on the solar/ESS system so we can be comfortable inside whenever we want may be the answer.

I just hate wasting energy though.

[sometimewoodworker]

2 hours ago, unheard said:

AAC blocks is a more expensive option since it requires a specially trained worker to be able to get it right, including rendering.

Did you bother to watch the video.

 

AAC is the cheaper option. Specially trained workers? BS. any worker who can lay bricks will take less than 30 minutes to cross train on AAC. Different tools, yes. Difficult tools, no.
 

Rendering is exactly the same process as on bricks just a different base coat and less render needed due to the smoother finish of AAC. So anyone who can render bricks can render AAC and in less time.

 

None of this is rocket science though you seem to be determined to make it seem as if it is.

 

Quote

Red brick is still the default wall material in Thailand!

Not in deepest Issan round here

Quote

Trained as in the ability to build and finish the wall that doesn't have the constant cracking problem few years down the road.

No problems with all the houses round here. Constant cracking? No. Use the correct AAC glue, no problems.

 

Cracking is never down to the infill material, it’s always poor foundations. 

 

Edited June 30, 2022 by sometimewoodworker

[unheard]

16 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

Cracking is never down to the infill material, it’s always poor foundations.

Render finish, not structural cracking.

Never a problem? ????

Edited June 30, 2022 by unheard

[unheard]

52 minutes ago, Encid said:

Save costs by going for a standard build rather than premium, and spend more on the solar/ESS system so we can be comfortable inside whenever we want may be the answer.

Yeah, it's a balancing act based on personal preference.

Plus other factors like house orientation, number, size and position of windows in the particular room(s) where you spend most of your time, wall shading etc, etc.

You might consider installing double glazed windows in just one bedroom and(or) living room as a compromise.

Or to take advantage of the much cooler night temperatures by creating ventilation paths inside of your house (depends on the geographical location) plus ventilated underfloor.

Your proposed design has huge glazed areas that would be more expensive to insulate than a house with much smaller windows.

You might want to re-think the design if thermal qualities is a priority. Otherwise it's gonna cost you.

Edited June 30, 2022 by unheard

[Encid]

1 hour ago, unheard said:

Your proposed design has huge glazed areas that would be more expensive to insulate than a house with much smaller windows.

Most of the huge glazed areas face East, and the South facing wall has no windows at all.

There are slight overhangs on the East side, so shading would occur at about 10am with the current design.

The West facing side does have large glazed sliding doors on one room only, but that would be shaded by an overhead patio and would only see direct sunlight after 4pm.

 

 

 

1 hour ago, unheard said:

You might consider installing double glazed windows in just one bedroom and(or) living room as a compromise.

That is a very good suggestion... thank you!

Probably the living room in the right in the image above... those sliding doors face due South.

[sometimewoodworker]

4 hours ago, Encid said:

The West facing side does have large glazed sliding doors on one room only, but that would be shaded by an overhead patio and would only see direct sunlight after 4pm.

What we have done to reduce the heat gain from our 2 large areas of glass, that gets the morning sun until about 9am, despite double glazing and low-e glass is to add silver backed perforated blinds, these allow enough light through that they are not claustrophobic but reflect about 90% of the IR. They are much more expensive, around 2 ~ 3 times, than other blinds but well worth the money the other areas of glass are shaded either by the roof, 2.5 ~ 5 metres overhang, or trees.

 

the effect is like this in the evening 

 

 

however as nobody who is not immediately beside the house has this view it isn’t a privacy concern

[sometimewoodworker]

5 hours ago, unheard said:

Render finish, not structural cracking.

Never a problem? ????

No, not since finishing in 2016 using the correct materials and methods 

 

NB vastly shorter reply missing information due to some strange glitches. SW or other

Edited June 30, 2022 by sometimewoodworker

[freedomnow]

Be good to see a complete passive cooling house thread..every trick in one place. Had started a folder a while back but got distracted.

[sometimewoodworker]

59 minutes ago, freedomnow said:

Be good to see a complete passive cooling house thread..every trick in one place. Had started a folder a while back but got distracted.

The problem with the first picture is the ash from sugar cane burning, along with the fact that you want zero direct sun through windows unless you’re in the north or at high elevations.

[freedomnow]

1 hour ago, sometimewoodworker said:

The problem with the first picture is the ash from sugar cane burning, along with the fact that you want zero direct sun through windows unless you’re in the north or at high elevations.

Yes, that top one was one for colder climates in the folder....passivhaus stuff

[unheard]

14 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

The problem with the first picture is the ash from sugar cane burning

Could you elaborate on the ash problem?

I don't quite see why it would be such a big obstacle for including a ventilated attic, even in  close proximity to the corn burning areas.

[unheard]

16 hours ago, freedomnow said:

Be good to see a complete passive cooling house thread

There's no much info on passive cooling out there.

Australia seems to be the only first world country that's is actively promoting passive cooling designs.

The rest of the first world countries mostly reside in temperate zones where cooling is not a priority.

[Saanim]

23 hours ago, Encid said:

Getting back to the subject matter (although the bricks diversion was interesting and informative ) you may be right.

Save costs by going for a standard build rather than premium, and spend more on the solar/ESS system so we can be comfortable inside whenever we want may be the answer.

I just hate wasting energy though.

In case of erection of walls with cavity a suitable construction material should be selected allowing load-bearing walls without having to construct concrete columns and beams what saves hundreds of thousands Baht and 2 -3 months construction time.  Then only problem is to persuade the Thai builders to do it so.  Then the house design is very easy, allowing any possible layout, doors, windows placed anywhere.

 

The wall cavity is very essential for the thermal insulation, with whatever material it's realized.  With the relative smaller temperature gradient to achieve (10 - 15 C) the quality characteristics of the blocks/bricks do not make such difference as in northern countries where we have to calculate with some 35 - 45 C difference (from -20C to +25C), and wind contribution. 

 

The local bricks and cinder blocks are very cheap in comparison with the light blocks.  And the cement, sand and workmanship is cheap either. 

 

Essential for the thermal calculations are large windows, whether tinted, double glazed, their thermal contribution overrides the wall quality. 

[sometimewoodworker]

2 hours ago, unheard said:

Could you elaborate on the ash problem?

I don't quite see why it would be such a big obstacle for including a ventilated attic, even in  close proximity to the corn burning areas.

Talk to SWMBO about that. It has nothing to do with corn, (the only time corn gets burned is if someone is a bad cook ????) nor is close proximity required though it can be much more exciting than is needed 

the ash will enter any where that is not sealed and will travel 10s of kilometres. The only way to reduce it is by positive vents that close when not in use, passive vents will always allow ingress of the ash and it is conducive in some conditions.

Edited July 1, 2022 by sometimewoodworker

[Saanim]

On 6/27/2022 at 5:37 PM, Encid said:

The amount of time and money spent on removing organic matter and killing algae from our large pool is ridiculous... never again!

Actually, a topic belonging to swimming pools: Once your swimming pool has at least one longer side with overflow, there is no such hassle you are mentioning. 

Then, watching what new has grown up and how the birds and butterflies enjoy the flowers along the pool side makes the daily long-time swimming not so boring as it would be in a hermetically enclosed pool.

[unheard]

52 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

passive vents will always allow ingress of the ash

same as with dust

But what is exactly the problem?
Just about any attic has at least minimal atmospheric ventilation built in via perforated soffits (usually in the roof's corners).

The roof itself is almost never hermetically sealed.

The difference being that the "ventilated attic" is much more open to atmosphere by allowing better air movement within its structure and at the same time still staying sealed from the living quarters as with any "normal" attic.

Does it really matter how much additional dust enter the attic since it's already super dusty?

Edited July 1, 2022 by unheard

[sometimewoodworker]

56 minutes ago, unheard said:

Does it really matter how much additional dust enter the attic since it's already super dusty?

Yes it does, no it isn’t 

[Encid]

21 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

What we have done to reduce the heat gain from our 2 large areas of glass, that gets the morning sun until about 9am, despite double glazing and low-e glass is to add silver backed perforated blinds, these allow enough light through that they are not claustrophobic but reflect about 90% of the IR. They are much more expensive, around 2 ~ 3 times, than other blinds but well worth the money the other areas of glass are shaded either by the roof, 2.5 ~ 5 metres overhang, or trees.

That sounds like a good product and ideal for our south facing windows and doors.

Where did you get them?

[sometimewoodworker]

54 minutes ago, Encid said:

That sounds like a good product and ideal for our south facing windows and doors.

Where did you get them?

They came from a curtain and blind specialist shop in Udon. I can get the location if required.

[Encid]

34 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

They came from a curtain and blind specialist shop in Udon. I can get the location if required.

Thanks but it is probably a bit early for me yet as we haven't even driven a pile yet, but useful to know that the product exists.

It helps with the planning of the build... knowing that there are products like this available.

 

We like the large glazed areas but want to mitigate the heat gain from the solar radiation through the glass.

 

It is starting to sound like double glazing and low-e glass together with those silver backed perforated blinds for the south facing windows/doors (living room) might be the answer. It would only be used late afternoon/evening when the sun is on the other side so it's just a matter of trying to not let it heat up too much.

 

For the east facing windows/doors (master bedroom and living room), the low-e glass together with those silver backed perforated blinds should suffice. Curtains with the solar backing block out nearly all the light and heat transfer would be negligible. Again, the master bedroom would only be used at night when the sun has gone down completely. 

[sometimewoodworker]

4 hours ago, Encid said:

Thanks but it is probably a bit early for me yet as we haven't even driven a pile yet, but useful to know that the product exists.

It helps with the planning of the build... knowing that there are products like this available.

 

We like the large glazed areas but want to mitigate the heat gain from the solar radiation through the glass.

 

It is starting to sound like double glazing and low-e glass together with those silver backed perforated blinds for the south facing windows/doors (living room) might be the answer. It would only be used late afternoon/evening when the sun is on the other side so it's just a matter of trying to not let it heat up too much.

 

For the east facing windows/doors (master bedroom and living room), the low-e glass together with those silver backed perforated blinds should suffice. Curtains with the solar backing block out nearly all the light and heat transfer would be negligible. Again, the master bedroom would only be used at night when the sun has gone down completely. 

We have quite large areas of glass, just one room has two 1400mm x 3300mm windows with a 2 metre opening, two glass doors that are 2200 high and a single door that is about 2100mm and that doesn’t include the clear story windows

 

we don’t have monkey bars as the outer sheet of the double glazing is laminated with 5 sheets of PVB so making it virtually thief proof, one of the door panels is about 43kg, also the thickness of the sheets are different to reduce sound

 

 

The windows and high ceilings make it a lovely house to be inside. The windows and doors were almost 1/5th of the cost of the house and while I would change the bottom of 1 if I were to build again I would not reduce the numbers and sizes of them

Edited July 1, 2022 by sometimewoodworker

[Encid]

On 7/1/2022 at 2:18 PM, Saanim said:

Actually, a topic belonging to swimming pools: Once your swimming pool has at least one longer side with overflow, there is no such hassle you are mentioning. 

Then, watching what new has grown up and how the birds and butterflies enjoy the flowers along the pool side makes the daily long-time swimming not so boring as it would be in a hermetically enclosed pool.

I really enjoy our pool... it is used every day, sometimes more than once... and I also enjoy watching the birds, the bees, the wasps, the butterflies, the lizards etc... and the pool overflows into a smaller pond which has a skimmer box so it's not an issue of surface dust or leaves etc.

 

 

The major problem is an overhanging leelawadee tree (aka frangipani) which continually drops all kind of organic matter into the pool all year round, except for cool season when it has no leaves. The other surrounding garden beds are fine... but I am really starting to hate that tree! If it's not the yellow mold that grows on the underside of the leaves, its the pigeon poop from birds resting overnight in it's branches, or the flower stems, and flowers, and leaves etc...

 

 

That is why I said "never again" to planting trees near a pool.

[Encid]

19 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

we don’t have monkey bars as the outer sheet of the double glazing is laminated with 5 sheets of PVB so making it virtually thief proof, one of the door panels is about 43kg, also the thickness of the sheets are different to reduce sound

That is also a great idea!

Although our planned build is out in farmland about 1km from the nearest village or another dwelling, security is a concern to me.

I can just imagine the local yaba-charged youths turning up one night on their motocycs and deciding to raid the farang's house to buy more yaba.

Lamination plus double glazing would provide that security... I too hate those steel security grills or monkey bars.

[unheard]

15 hours ago, Encid said:

Lamination plus double glazing would provide that security...

Those options are all great as long as you're prepared to pay for them..

In the west the cost of double glazed, tempered glass, argon filled windows is nothing special as compared to the rest of the build.

Here's a completely different story.

[unheard]

16 hours ago, Encid said:

That is why I said "never again" to planting trees near a pool.

You should really remove that tree ASAP.

I can't even imagine what all that organic matter does to your water chemistry.

Do you maintain the pool yourself?

Edited July 3, 2022 by unheard

[Encid]

1 hour ago, unheard said:

You should really remove that tree ASAP.

I can't even imagine what all that organic matter does to your water chemistry.

Do you maintain the pool yourself?

Yes I maintain the pool myself.

It is a constant battle to maintain the correct pH.

The cost of chemicals is just part of the problem... the main problem for me is the amount of time I have to spend cleaning it... 2 or 3 times a week... more, if it has been raining.

 

We are planning on selling the house in about 6 months or so... until then the tree will remain as it adds character and afternoon shade. It also has flowering orchids and birds nest ferns mounted in it, and is quite pretty.

I will just have to live with the problem a bit longer.

 

I'm sure that now you understand my reasons for not having trees anywhere near a home pool.

[Saanim]

9 hours ago, Encid said:

10 hours ago, unheard said:

You should really remove that tree ASAP.

I can't even imagine what all that organic matter does to your water chemistry.

Do you maintain the pool yourself?

Yes I maintain the pool myself.

It is a constant battle to maintain the correct pH.

The cost of chemicals is just part of the problem... the main problem for me is the amount of time I have to spend cleaning it... 2 or 3 times a week... more, if it has been raining.

 

Perhaps, the trees are overly blamed for the problems of the water, obviously the algae protection has not been effective enough. If it is only by the chlorine dosage and the pH has not been always properly maintained? Yes, the pH care costs a lot and the level fluctuates very often. 

 

I too have trees overhanging, also teak with its blossoms and large leaves dropping while in the middle of huge vegetation around.  However, no such troubles with a handful of copper sulphate once a month and a handful of simple chlorine once a week while no bothering to maintain the pH.     

[bluejets]

Design for the building position and environment, not what you think looks good.