Lost Uk Passport And Serious Overstay

[owen01]

There have been a number of threads about UK Citizens with no passport and an extensive overstay - so I thought the following info might help somebody.

Also I would agree with those who say that this a very stupid situation to get oneself in - but hindsight is 20/20 and all that. I would also stress that many foreigners don't really understand the complexity of immigration problems ... until it's too late. For example - with no passport how do you get money sent to you even if you do know someone willing to send it. Overstays are a problem that can quickly spiral out of control. But let's assume that people will continue to be people and move on.

I have had this problem myself. About 3 years ago I found myself with a considerable overstay and no passport. The details are unimportant but the very thought trying to resolve the issue was frightening an contributed to the length of the overstay itself. I had previously had a run in with the law and spent a couple of nights in the clink.

I have a friend who was stuck in the IDC for a week so I have some idea how unpleasant and dangerous it is.

Eventually I got it sorted. So, assuming the guy has no passport - here's the skinny. There is really no point starting this process unless you have the requisite funds to see it through.

1. Report passport lost at Police Station - get the report document.

2. Go to British Embassy and report passport lost - they may be only willing to issue an emergency travel document (as in my case) if you have no other form of ID - in which case you'll need to agree with them when exactly (flight no. etc) you are going home (book the flight - take the confirmed booking to the embassy - once the doc has been issued then pay for the flight.)

3. Either with replacement passport issued or with Travel Doc arranged purchase your ONE-WAY flight back to the COUNTRY THAT ISSUED YOUR PASSPORT - the flight should be withing the next couple of days and preferably mid-week. With an overstay such as this it will not be sufficient to nip out to an adjacent country.

4. The embassy will also furnish you with a letter for immigration.

5. You need to take the following to Immigration in Suan Phlu

i.) travel doc /passport

ii.) one way ticket

iii.) letter from embassy

iv.) funds to pay overstay fine (20K) and extension fee (1900)

You are then depending on the goodwill of the Immigration Officials to not detain you as you are leaving the next day. Personally I brought representation that was known to Immigration.

They were extremely affable - they fingerprinted me and told me to be back at 9:00 the next morning. They also checked on the computer that I had no criminal case outstanding and attached this printout to my ticket, letter etc.

The next day I arrived at 9 sharp and was taken in a Police pickup to Thonburi court (I think it was a Saturday - that's why it was not the local court - hence my mid-week point). The Judge issued me with a deportation order and I was required to pay a 15,000 baht fine.

The immigration officer told me to take the paperwork - including the court order with me to the airport the next day to catch my scheduled flight. At Don Muang immigration I presented the set of documents and all was in order - I was not asked to pay an overstay fine - since I was officially being deported.

I don't know when you crossover from paying 20K overstay to court order - maybe it was due to my previous police problem - I'm not sure - but my advice is this.

1. Hire somebody who is known to immigration to go with you to Suan Phlu. Sunbelt sound alright but I didn't use them. The guy I used was an ex immigration investigator and he was excellent.

2. Be seen my immigration to treat it as a serious matter - write down (before you go in) the relevant dates and details - last entry date to Thailand - old passport number etc. if you have them.

3. Be presentable when you go to Suan Phlu - make the effort - you need them to WANT to help you.

4. If your family sends you funds to resolve your problem - BUY YOUR TICKET BEFORE USING THE ANY OF THE MONEY - air tickets are rarely as cheap as advertised -especially short notice bookings.

Good Luck

Owen

Edited June 20, 2007 by owen01

[madjbs]

Can you ever come back to Thailand though? I thought if your deported then you will be blacklisted, although this may only be if its at Thailands expense.

Jake

[owen01]

Can you ever come back to Thailand though? I thought if your deported then you will be blacklisted, although this may only be if its at Thailands expense.

Jake

I've been back many times since.

I was told by the Immigration Office at Suan Phlu that this wouldn't be a problem - however I got the distinct impression that this was because I went to them to rectify the problem rather than being caught by the cops. Similarly, I was told by the guy I brought with me that officially I was arrested and released on my own reconnaissance (ie. zero bail) -again because I went to see them rather than the other way round.

Edited June 20, 2007 by owen01

[Maestro]

...Thonburi court...The Judge issued me with a deportation order and I was required to pay a 15,000 baht fine... At Don Muang immigration I presented the set of documents and all was in order - I was not asked to pay an overstay fine - since I was officially being deported.

The 15,000 Baht you paid by order of the court was your overstay fine.

--

Maestro

[cali4995]

Owen01, showing an impressive pair of cojones in that he actually resolved the situation

and graciously can still offer some advice to others. Good job amigo!

Edited June 20, 2007 by cali4995

[owen01]

...Thonburi court...The Judge issued me with a deportation order and I was required to pay a 15,000 baht fine... At Don Muang immigration I presented the set of documents and all was in order - I was not asked to pay an overstay fine - since I was officially being deported.

The 15,000 Baht you paid by order of the court was your overstay fine.

--

Maestro

Any idea why it wasn't the full 20K ?

Owen

[sting0001]

There have been a number of threads about UK Citizens with no passport and an extensive overstay - so I thought the following info might help somebody.

Also I would agree with those who say that this a very stupid situation to get oneself in - but hindsight is 20/20 and all that. I would also stress that many foreigners don't really understand the complexity of immigration problems ... until it's too late. For example - with no passport how do you get money sent to you even if you do know someone willing to send it. Overstays are a problem that can quickly spiral out of control. But let's assume that people will continue to be people and move on.

I have had this problem myself. About 3 years ago I found myself with a considerable overstay and no passport. The details are unimportant but the very thought trying to resolve the issue was frightening an contributed to the length of the overstay itself. I had previously had a run in with the law and spent a couple of nights in the clink.

I have a friend who was stuck in the IDC for a week so I have some idea how unpleasant and dangerous it is.

Eventually I got it sorted. So, assuming the guy has no passport - here's the skinny. There is really no point starting this process unless you have the requisite funds to see it through.

1. Report passport lost at Police Station - get the report document.

2. Go to British Embassy and report passport lost - they may be only willing to issue an emergency travel document (as in my case) if you have no other form of ID - in which case you'll need to agree with them when exactly (flight no. etc) you are going home (book the flight - take the confirmed booking to the embassy - once the doc has been issued then pay for the flight.)

3. Either with replacement passport issued or with Travel Doc arranged purchase your ONE-WAY flight back to the COUNTRY THAT ISSUED YOUR PASSPORT - the flight should be withing the next couple of days and preferably mid-week. With an overstay such as this it will not be sufficient to nip out to an adjacent country.

4. The embassy will also furnish you with a letter for immigration.

5. You need to take the following to Immigration in Suan Phlu

i.) travel doc /passport

ii.) one way ticket

iii.) letter from embassy

iv.) funds to pay overstay fine (20K) and extension fee (1900)

You are then depending on the goodwill of the Immigration Officials to not detain you as you are leaving the next day. Personally I brought representation that was known to Immigration.

They were extremely affable - they fingerprinted me and told me to be back at 9:00 the next morning. They also checked on the computer that I had no criminal case outstanding and attached this printout to my ticket, letter etc.

The next day I arrived at 9 sharp and was taken in a Police pickup to Thonburi court (I think it was a Saturday - that's why it was not the local court - hence my mid-week point). The Judge issued me with a deportation order and I was required to pay a 15,000 baht fine.

The immigration officer told me to take the paperwork - including the court order with me to the airport the next day to catch my scheduled flight. At Don Muang immigration I presented the set of documents and all was in order - I was not asked to pay an overstay fine - since I was officially being deported.

I don't know when you crossover from paying 20K overstay to court order - maybe it was due to my previous police problem - I'm not sure - but my advice is this.

1. Hire somebody who is known to immigration to go with you to Suan Phlu. Sunbelt sound alright but I didn't use them. The guy I used was an ex immigration investigator and he was excellent.

2. Be seen my immigration to treat it as a serious matter - write down (before you go in) the relevant dates and details - last entry date to Thailand - old passport number etc. if you have them.

3. Be presentable when you go to Suan Phlu - make the effort - you need them to WANT to help you.

4. If your family sends you funds to resolve your problem - BUY YOUR TICKET BEFORE USING THE ANY OF THE MONEY - air tickets are rarely as cheap as advertised -especially short notice bookings.

Good Luck

Owen

I was in the same situation from 2003/june until october/2006 (but passport full , not lost). Did the same (Suan Phlu with a well know person) the outcome was similar (I had to pay the fine, but did not go to court) and I was back in Bkk 4 days after my departure with a non B and a WP.

So yes, as long as you play fair, the immigration will also play fair (they will consider you got exceptional problems, and you are doing your very best to fix the situation). The key being to go to meet them, and not wait they catch you.

[MarkBKK]

Can you ever come back to Thailand though? I thought if your deported then you will be blacklisted, although this may only be if its at Thailands expense.

Jake

I've seen this a few times on TV. My understanding is that the person being deported is put on the first available seat (often first class, since cabbage class is usually full) of their country's national carrier (or if unavailable, any carrier that will take them I think), at the deportee's own expense. The carrier then recovers the money (if the deportee hasn't sufficient sufficient funds on them). Is this no longer the case?

[sjaak327]

...Thonburi court...The Judge issued me with a deportation order and I was required to pay a 15,000 baht fine... At Don Muang immigration I presented the set of documents and all was in order - I was not asked to pay an overstay fine - since I was officially being deported.

The 15,000 Baht you paid by order of the court was your overstay fine.

--

Maestro

Any idea why it wasn't the full 20K ?

Owen

You didn't state the number of days you overstayed, Three years ago the daily fee was 200 baht, so either you overtayed 75 days, if it's more then I wouldn't know why.

Good post by the way.

[astral]

It is a very interesting post.

I think the OP was lucky not to be detained.

Perhaps because he had someone known to Immigration to vouch for him.

It all goes to emphasize the advice that we give here.

DO NOT OVERSTAY.

Too much hassle.

[owen01]

Maestro - The overstay was in the region of 2 years.

MarkBKK- I think that what you are referring to is either a "Persona Non Grata" deportation and/or an extradition

astral - Yes I agree that I was extremely lucky not to be locked up and I think it was most likely because the guy I went with used to work with the same section of immigration that deals with such matters - ie. Investigations.

Sting - Were you required to return to your home country ?

Also I forgot to mention I have a child in Thailand. While I am not with the mother, we are in contact and I brought what papers I had relating to this (DNA Test) to show Immigration.

Owen

Edited June 22, 2007 by owen01

[sting0001]

Maestro - The overstay was in the region of 2 years.

MarkBKK- I think that what you are referring to is either a "Persona Non Grata" deportation and/or an extradition

astral - Yes I agree that I was extremely lucky not to be locked up and I think it was most likely because the guy I went with used to work with the same section of immigration that deals with such matters - ie. Investigations.

Sting - Were you required to return to your home country ?

Also I forgot to mention I have a child in Thailand. While I am not with the mother, we are in contact and I brought what papers I had relating to this (DNA Test) to show Immigration.

Owen

Technically yes I was asked to go back to my country. In reallity it was not necessary due my passport situation, also the fact I had job, and most of all the position of the person who went with me to the immigration (difficult to say no when your boss say yes, if you get the point). My passport had to be re issued in KL (the local ambassy got a problem with the printer and was not able to issue one in Bkk ...). But technically, you have to return to your original country, and I have to buy the ticket for it, and the one for KL (btw us I did not care, happy I was to make me again honorable)

[Maestro]

Any idea why it wasn't the full 20K ?

The judge was bound by the law, in this case the Immigration Act, which states:

Section 81 : Any alien who stay in the Kingdom without permission or with permission expired or revoked shall be punished with imprisonment not exceeding two years or a fine not exceeding 20,000 Baht or both.

The on-the-spot fines are listed in an internal regulation of the Immigration Bureau, probably a Royal Thai Police Order, and they are for the convenience of the offenders, so that they don’t have to be brought to court for every little infraction. However, if an overstayer fined 20,000 Baht by Immigration does not want to accept it he can refuse to pay, be arrested and have a judge decide on the punishment. It’s really the same as with a fine for speeding in our home countries, etc.

A judge rules on each case individually, based on the facts and evidence presented to him, and he is free to mete out any punishment he sees fit within the limits of the law. This punishment can be less severe than the summary fines laid down in some internal regulation. In fact, the judge may not even be aware of that internal regulation; all that matters to him is the law.

--

Maestro

[owen01]

Technically yes I was asked to go back to my country. In reallity it was not necessary due my passport situation, also the fact I had job, and most of all the position of the person who went with me to the immigration (difficult to say no when your boss say yes, if you get the point). My passport had to be re issued in KL (the local ambassy got a problem with the printer and was not able to issue one in Bkk ...). But technically, you have to return to your original country, and I have to buy the ticket for it, and the one for KL (btw us I did not care, happy I was to make me again honorable)

Yes - it's much better to be on the straight and narrow - and not to have to look over your shoulder. If you Passport was full - how did you manage to get into Malaysia ? I like the 2 ticket idea!

Owen

Edited June 22, 2007 by owen01

[owen01]

Any idea why it wasn't the full 20K ?

The judge was bound by the law, in this case the Immigration Act, which states:

Section 81 : Any alien who stay in the Kingdom without permission or with permission expired or revoked shall be punished with imprisonment not exceeding two years or a fine not exceeding 20,000 Baht or both.

The on-the-spot fines are listed in an internal regulation of the Immigration Bureau, probably a Royal Thai Police Order, and they are for the convenience of the offenders, so that they don’t have to be brought to court for every little infraction. However, if an overstayer fined 20,000 Baht by Immigration does not want to accept it he can refuse to pay, be arrested and have a judge decide on the punishment. It’s really the same as with a fine for speeding in our home countries, etc.

A judge rules on each case individually, based on the facts and evidence presented to him, and he is free to mete out any punishment he sees fit within the limits of the law. This punishment can be less severe than the summary fines laid down in some internal regulation. In fact, the judge may not even be aware of that internal regulation; all that matters to him is the law.

--

Maestro

Makes sense - always wondered about the reasoning - many thanks for an expert response.