China?

[artao]

anti-Japanese?

news:

China, Japan younger generations encouraged to pursue China-Japan friendship

BEIJING, June 19 (Xinhua) -- Chinese President Hu Jintao on Tuesday hosted a banquet in the Great Hall of the People for a Japanese delegation, urging young people from China and Japan to enrich their friendship.

"Younger generations are the future of a lasting friendship between China and Japan. They should promote bilateral ties, learn from each other, talk to each other and trust each other so that friendship and positive actions flower," Hu said.

"I believe the future of China and Japan will be positive and the torch of friendship will be handed down from one generation to the next," Hu said.

The 200-odd member delegation is composed of representatives and the children of participants who attended a grand gathering in1984, as well as several Japanese diet men and staff from friendship organizations.

In the fall of 1984, 3,000 Japanese young people visited China at the invitation of Hu Yaobang, then general secretary of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of China.

They got together with about 1 million Chinese youth from all walks of life, and celebrated the 12th anniversary of the normalization of China-Japan relations.

It was the largest foreign group China had received since 1949.The event was described as unprecedented in the history of bilateral friendship.

"Twenty-three years ago, we organized friendly activities and get-togethers between Chinese and Japanese young people. Since then the delegates have played an active role in promoting friendship between China and Japan," Hu said.

During the banquet, young people from both countries enjoyed acrobatics, traditional folk songs and exchanged gifts.

As the day marked the Chinese traditional Duanwu Festival, or Dragon Boat Festival, delegates were offered "zongzi", a type of sticky rice dumpling that is traditionally eaten on this day.

Yasuhiro Nakasone, former Japanese prime minister who led the current 200-odd member delegation, also made a warm speech at the banquet, saying friendship and cooperation between Japan and China is "the basis of both development and prosperity in Asia and even peace in the world."

"Let's make joint efforts to carry on the Japan-China friendship from generation to generation," Nakasone said.

The delegation's visit to China from June 14 to 20 is also part of the activities celebrating the 2007 China-Japan Culture and Sports Year.

Editor: Yan Liang

source:http://news3.xinhuanet.com/english/2007-06/20/content_6264948.htm

[bendix]

Ahhhhh, yes, Xinhua. That remarkably independent news agency controlled by . . . . ummmm . . . . who?

[LaoPo]

The world survived perfectly well without Chinese demand* for decades and decades. We can do so again. There is always the resource hungry India to pick up the slack and they, so far as I know, are not in the habit of parading petty criminals around crowded football stadiums, inciting the crowds to bay for blood, before putting a bullet in the back of their heads and selling their body parts for transplants.

Civilised society my arse.

Civilized poster, aren't you?

Nice to see you have a dictator in your avatar...Joseph Stalin...admirer?

* Chinese demand?.... The West demands, require and runs around in China, looking for the best and cheapest products. The Western companies are settling in China. The West is putting Billions into the economy, [also] for their own benefit.

I suggest you take a better look into China and its people itself before writing such nonsense.

I said it before: give the Chinese population time....time is what they need to improve their own society. It took the USA and Europe (amongst other Western societies) hundreds of years to become civilized.

Don't ask too much and don't condemn an entire nation with a population of 1.3 Billion (!) for what the previous and present leaders did/do.

Be a bit more civilized yourself, if you please.

LaoPo

[chinthee]

The world survived perfectly well without Chinese demand* for decades and decades. We can do so again. There is always the resource hungry India to pick up the slack and they, so far as I know, are not in the habit of parading petty criminals around crowded football stadiums, inciting the crowds to bay for blood, before putting a bullet in the back of their heads and selling their body parts for transplants.

Civilised society my arse.

Civilized poster, aren't you?

Nice to see you have a dictator in your avatar...Joseph Stalin...admirer?

* Chinese demand?.... The West demands, require and runs around in China, looking for the best and cheapest products. The Western companies are settling in China. The West is putting Billions into the economy, [also] for their own benefit.

I suggest you take a better look into China and its people itself before writing such nonsense.

I said it before: give the Chinese population time....time is what they need to improve their own society. It took the USA and Europe (amongst other Western societies) hundreds of years to become civilized.

Don't ask too much and don't condemn an entire nation with a population of 1.3 Billion (!) for what the previous and present leaders did/do.

Be a bit more civilized yourself, if you please.

LaoPo

I told you all, he's a tasty treat just waiting to be eaten. Give me time.

[bendix]

I said it before: give the Chinese population time....time is what they need to improve their own society. It took the USA and Europe (amongst other Western societies) hundreds of years to become civilized.

LaoPo

I'm confused. Is China, then, in your opinion civilised or not?

In my view, the Chinese population doesn't need hundreds of years to become civilised. It only needs to rid itself of the current regime so that it has a government worthy of its people and so that it can take a place at the world's table of advanced nations based not solely (as now) because of its new status as a cash cow for the world but because it deserves its place as a good world citizen, respecting basic laws of decency and human rights.

As for the Stalin avatar, ever heard of irony?

[meemiathai]

I can't understand, Bendix, you want the whole race to go to hel_l? You don't think that there are good and bad people within every race? You like to see even good people suffer? You mentioned the charity work you did helping thai people so would you not do it if they were chinese? Do you treat everyone regardless of race fairly?

Huh?

What has race got to do with it? My comments have nothing to do with race and I resent the slur. I'm talking about a morally corrupt dictatorial and callous regime which suppresses the political, civil, religious and human rights of its billion+ people.

There are no good people at the top of the Chinese leadership. There are, instead, career dictators and auto-didacts.

That is why i hope the regime falls in upon itself and why I abhor the hypocracy of the western world who get morally sanctimonious and imposes trade sanctions on relatively innocuous countries like Cuba, yet wet themselves when it comes to do business with this bunch of thugs.

Still, as Mao himself once said, 'Why let bad politics spoil good business," huh?

Who then are the ones you think should be governing the country? How do you think then it should be run? You are bashing it but I don't think you have the slightest idea what it really is like. Do you think if we put a hundred or a thousand of Bendixs into the communist party, we will see any difference? Do you know how to control a country with 1.2 billion people?

[meemiathai]

I can not understand why the ranters carry on as they do, their input certainly does not help the op in his quest of whether or he he should go to China.

But it does very clearly show that racism is still alive and kicking !!

Agreed.

But was it a good read?

[meemiathai]

I said it before: give the Chinese population time....time is what they need to improve their own society. It took the USA and Europe (amongst other Western societies) hundreds of years to become civilized.

LaoPo

I'm confused. Is China, then, in your opinion civilised or not?

In my view, the Chinese population doesn't need hundreds of years to become civilised. It only needs to rid itself of the current regime so that it has a government worthy of its people and so that it can take a place at the world's table of advanced nations based not solely (as now) because of its new status as a cash cow for the world but because it deserves its place as a good world citizen, respecting basic laws of decency and human rights.

As for the Stalin avatar, ever heard of irony?

You seem to be saying that the government and the chinese population are 2 different things. They are the same. This government goes, the other is going to be the same just with different people.

And democracy is not yet ready for China.

[artao]

I read though that the editors were questioned about the ad and some were sacked too. Is that true? And if so, then is it really meaningless? (If not true, then I guess the foreign media overreacted?)

I don't know if someone has punished for the ad or not, because common Chinese don't care for the 64-riots, maybe the editor is hapless for leaving his work, or maybe just a criticism.

In a word, the more you know the truth about 64, the more you will support China goverment.

[meemiathai]

I read though that the editors were questioned about the ad and some were sacked too. Is that true? And if so, then is it really meaningless? (If not true, then I guess the foreign media overreacted?)

I don't know if someone has punished for the ad or not, because common Chinese don't care for the 64-riots, maybe the editor is hapless for leaving his work, or maybe just a criticism.

In a word, the more you know the truth about 64, the more you will support China goverment.

Funny you used the word "riot". Just see how different things are viewed from different angles.

If it was indeed a riot, why would they suppress the news?

[bendix]

I said it before: give the Chinese population time....time is what they need to improve their own society. It took the USA and Europe (amongst other Western societies) hundreds of years to become civilized.

LaoPo

I'm confused. Is China, then, in your opinion civilised or not?

In my view, the Chinese population doesn't need hundreds of years to become civilised. It only needs to rid itself of the current regime so that it has a government worthy of its people and so that it can take a place at the world's table of advanced nations based not solely (as now) because of its new status as a cash cow for the world but because it deserves its place as a good world citizen, respecting basic laws of decency and human rights.

As for the Stalin avatar, ever heard of irony?

You seem to be saying that the government and the chinese population are 2 different things. They are the same. This government goes, the other is going to be the same just with different people.

And democracy is not yet ready for China.

maimeethai, as you are Chinese (i guess), I'll defer to your greater wisdom on this, but i find that an extraordinary assertion. The Chinese people and chinese government are the same thing? And democracy is not yet ready for China?

In an earlier thread you asked what is the right form of government for China. I have no idea. I would hope it's one that doesnt harvest organs from arbitrarily executed prisoners, but maybe that's asking too much.

Let me turn your question around (because - really - it's a good one). Are you suggesting that because of the size of the population, a ruthless dictatorial regime is the only way it can be governed? That's a huge call.

Let's rid ourselves of one delusion. If the ruling party in China today is a Communist Party, I'm a banana. The combination of free-market economy (to a degree) and political restrictions is much closer to the classical fascist model. China is no more communist than I am, and I sit slightly to the right of Genghis Khan on the political spectrum.

I don't know what model of government it should have. Perhaps it doesnt matter what shade or format the government is. BUT - and this is a big BUT - while it continues to show scant regard for human rights and even basic political freedom, it (the regime) cannot be called civilised.

That, sadly, is China's tragedy. I sincerely hope that one day its people will realise they deserve better.

PS . . . on the plus side, at least this debate has moved away from the relative merits of Chinese girls compared to Thai.

[uptou]

so its agreed that thailand has the best looking chicks then?

[j_cheung]

The world survived perfectly well without Chinese demand for decades and decades. We can do so again. There is always the resource hungry India to pick up the slack and they, so far as I know, are not in the habit of parading petty criminals around crowded football stadiums, inciting the crowds to bay for blood, before putting a bullet in the back of their heads and selling their body parts for transplants.

Civilised society my arse.

Benedix:

1) That was way before the flood of foreign investment to build factories to take advantage of cheap labour and excellent infrastructure over the past 3 decades. Hence, keeping everyday products you use at an affordable price!

2) Indeed India will pick eventually up some slack but mostly in terms of back-office & service industries based in the southern cities, say Bangalore & Chennai. Have you seen the vast rapid development of heavy industries and solid infrastructure yet (with the some notable recent exceptions of Mittal Steel and the causeway bridge project in Mumbai)? This doesn't even consider the equally stiffling local labor unions and government cartels that would extract huge penalties and roadblocks from any foreign investments (e.g. Check the pre-meltdown Enron's power plant investment of the mid 90s). With given time & considerable foreign investments, India, Indonesia and (more likely) Vietnam could conceivably spread some of the supply-chain risk. If not, be prepared for any substantial rise in everyday inflation if the world's workshop closes down ...

3) Although abuses of the death penalty and illegal organ transplants had been documented over the earlier two decades, the practice of death by firing squads had been abolished in favor of death by lethal injection and all death penalty cases must now be deferred to the Supreme Court for final consideration. Now, this quip about "parading petty criminals around crowded football stadiums, inciting the crowds to bay for blood..." - Have we been watching too many reruns of Gladitor lately?

In no way has most forum contributors say that China today is a fully "civilised" society but their central government's awareness to promote such favourable ideals leads many to believe they are heading in the right direction.

[j_cheung]

I said it before: give the Chinese population time....time is what they need to improve their own society. It took the USA and Europe (amongst other Western societies) hundreds of years to become civilized.

LaoPo

I'm confused. Is China, then, in your opinion civilised or not?

In my view, the Chinese population doesn't need hundreds of years to become civilised. It only needs to rid itself of the current regime so that it has a government worthy of its people and so that it can take a place at the world's table of advanced nations based not solely (as now) because of its new status as a cash cow for the world but because it deserves its place as a good world citizen, respecting basic laws of decency and human rights.

As for the Stalin avatar, ever heard of irony?

You seem to be saying that the government and the chinese population are 2 different things. They are the same. This government goes, the other is going to be the same just with different people.

And democracy is not yet ready for China.

maimeethai, as you are Chinese (i guess), I'll defer to your greater wisdom on this, but i find that an extraordinary assertion. The Chinese people and chinese government are the same thing? And democracy is not yet ready for China?

In an earlier thread you asked what is the right form of government for China. I have no idea. I would hope it's one that doesnt harvest organs from arbitrarily executed prisoners, but maybe that's asking too much.

Let me turn your question around (because - really - it's a good one). Are you suggesting that because of the size of the population, a ruthless dictatorial regime is the only way it can be governed? That's a huge call.

Let's rid ourselves of one delusion. If the ruling party in China today is a Communist Party, I'm a banana. The combination of free-market economy (to a degree) and political restrictions is much closer to the classical fascist model. China is no more communist than I am, and I sit slightly to the right of Genghis Khan on the political spectrum.

I don't know what model of government it should have. Perhaps it doesnt matter what shade or format the government is. BUT - and this is a big BUT - while it continues to show scant regard for human rights and even basic political freedom, it (the regime) cannot be called civilised.

That, sadly, is China's tragedy. I sincerely hope that one day its people will realise they deserve better.

PS . . . on the plus side, at least this debate has moved away from the relative merits of Chinese girls compared to Thai.

Benedix:

I'll agree with you on their neo-Fascist model of central government trying to reign over an increasingly county fiefdom created by local officials and their commercial triad partners. However, I and many that live in that country believe basic commercial rights (e.g. private property ownership) and economic freedoms (e.g. ability to choose one's career and business) should take greater priority over political freedoms now. In fact, a few notable political scholars have argued that many post-war dictatorial regimes had been transformed from war-torn agragrian communities into industrialised urban societies (e.g. Spain, Chile, South Korea, Taiwan) through a concerted effort to develop a resiliant manufacturing base coupled with an educated and thriving middle class.

Postscript: Hmmm, do I have to choose or can I take both?

[qwertz]

I've tried, oh how I've tried but this thread, gentlemen, is just too heavy for me today.

However, I may check in tomorrow to see if you've managed to set the world to rights between you.

[bendix]

Now come come qwertz. Life is not all about comparing girls or body odours, you know. We're having a grown-up debate here . . . It's hardly our fault you have the attention span of a gnat, is it? :-)

[LaoPo]

I said it before: give the Chinese population time....time is what they need to improve their own society. It took the USA and Europe (amongst other Western societies) hundreds of years to become civilized.

LaoPo

I'm confused.

1. Is China, then, in your opinion civilised or not?

2. In my view, the Chinese population doesn't need hundreds of years to become civilised.

3. It only needs to rid itself of the current regime so that it has a government worthy of its people and so that it can take a place at the world's table of advanced nations based not solely (as now) because of its new status as a cash cow for the world but

4.....because it deserves its place as a good world citizen, respecting basic laws of decency and human rights.

5. As for the Stalin avatar, ever heard of irony ?

I numbered your answer as it easier for me to answer; hope you don't mind.

1. It's funny how many westerners look upon civilisation in the Far East; 'we' always find ourselves more civilized than the 'East'....think of that. Ever thought of differences in culture and views upon?

Personally I think that civilization in the East was far ahead of the west; even some 800 years ago when Marco Polo travelled throughout China and (for example) described the city of Hangzhou (where I am now...) with it's 1 million people, back than, as the most modern city he ever saw. This was in a time when London and Paris were small...very small with just 30/40.000 people.

The sewer system in Hangzhou was far ahead of western civilization, just to name an example.

But, to answer your question: civilization is in the eyes of the viewer and yes, 'our' civilization does not meet the standards in rural China, but come and see the cities....

It will take time to meet 'our' standards but, hey, who's making the rules of how to behave in any civilization ? YOU or YOUR society ?

2. they won't need hundreds of years [again].

3. Eventually they will get rid of their government(s)/new-style Emperors, but that takes time also; IF, just IF, there would a full adapted WESTERN style democracy tomorrow, anarchy would break out and the people would lose control. That can't happen BUT democracy will come, faster than you and I think.

4. I agree...but let's first look at ourselves in the West before commenting in the East....do you say 'we' are civilized, creating all the new wars around the world...occupying and fighting in other countries BECAUSE 'we' do not agree with them ?

5. Yes, I know; but that doesn't fit your bill/avatar. Nobody wants to be reminded of Stalin; look ahead instead backwards.

Have a nice day anyway.

LaoPo

[bendix]

Good post LaoPo. To be honest, i don't think we are as far apart in this discussion as we might have originally thought. I hear your points loud and clear and agree with them all, particularly the comments about looking at the west's record at the same time as criticising the CCPs.

Agree on all, that is, except not remembering Uncle Joe. Was it someone like Primo Levi or Simon Wiesenthal who said that we should not forget history, lest we let it happen again?

Anyway, moving on . . .

[chinthee]

I really can't believe what a bunch of pussies you guys are! Bendix doesn't know <deleted> about China and he wrapped you idiots around his little finger.

Disgusting. If you don't stand up for yourselves, you deserve to be shat upon.

[chinthee]

f'ing losers. Bendix knows nothing!!!

[LaoPo]

I really can't believe what a bunch of pussies you guys are! Bendix doesn't know <deleted> about China and he wrapped you idiots around his little finger.

Disgusting. If you don't stand up for yourselves, you deserve to be shat upon.

Well, Chinthee, you can call me whatever you like but let's keep it civilized, please ?

I do stand by my own opinion and it will be extremely difficult to let myself wrap around any finger...

LaoPo

[bendix]

Ummmm . . am I being flamed here, or is everyone else?

[chinthee]

Yes, please excuse me all and moderators. I lost control for a second.

[chinthee]

Yes, please excuse me all and moderators. I lost control for a second.

Again, my apologies...

[LaoPo]

Yes, please excuse me all and moderators. I lost control for a second.

Heat, humidity, a bad day and maybe booze...I know...I know...

Let's debate...I like it, whether I'm right, or wrong...I like it.

LaoPo

[qwertz]

Quote bendix: Now come come qwertz. Life is not all about comparing girls or body odours, you know. We're having a grown-up debate here . . . It's hardly our fault you have the attention span of a gnat, is it? :-)

This was a most hurtful thing to say and I've had to call my therapist to talk about feeling rejected again.

And another thing, I shan't read any of your nasty posts again until you learn to be civil.

BTW, you're right about the attention span, at least today, I've burned my toast twice and forgotten to put coffee in the percolator.

And if you think dementia is funny Mr..............................oh bugger, I've forgotten.

[Soph]

Interesting thread - im going to China next week for 2 months and was wondering how it is for single female travellers? I will be mainly in the North West and Xian. This is a huge step out of my comfort zone that is for sure!

Not sure how far northwest you'll be going, but Xi'an is great. I assume you'll be going to see the Qin Shi Huang and Terracotta warriors. One tip, make sure to hire an official english-speaking local guide at the site who knows the fantastic history of the area as he guides you through the site. It takes a few hours.

If you're going as far as Urumqi, in xinjiang province that is an entirely different culture altogether, and they speak a turkic tongue. Some of the best tightrope walkers in the world come from the gypsy tribes there.

Also, regarding being a female single traveller is generally no problem, but did I understand you'll be travelling alone for 2 months around China and you don't speak Mandarin? That would be very difficult, as English can be non-existent outside the major cities, unless you have someone meeting you everywhere or advanced planning. Can you give some more details?

Thanks for the advice - sorry for not getting back sooner, not been round here for a while. Just to confirm, I will be working in Urumqi at an English summer camp, so am not travelling for all that time. Hoping to pick up some language during that time.

[chinthee]

Interesting thread - im going to China next week for 2 months and was wondering how it is for single female travellers? I will be mainly in the North West and Xian. This is a huge step out of my comfort zone that is for sure!

Not sure how far northwest you'll be going, but Xi'an is great. I assume you'll be going to see the Qin Shi Huang and Terracotta warriors. One tip, make sure to hire an official english-speaking local guide at the site who knows the fantastic history of the area as he guides you through the site. It takes a few hours.

If you're going as far as Urumqi, in xinjiang province that is an entirely different culture altogether, and they speak a turkic tongue. Some of the best tightrope walkers in the world come from the gypsy tribes there.

Also, regarding being a female single traveller is generally no problem, but did I understand you'll be travelling alone for 2 months around China and you don't speak Mandarin? That would be very difficult, as English can be non-existent outside the major cities, unless you have someone meeting you everywhere or advanced planning. Can you give some more details?

Thanks for the advice - sorry for not getting back sooner, not been round here for a while. Just to confirm, I will be working in Urumqi at an English summer camp, so am not travelling for all that time. Hoping to pick up some language during that time.

Well, that is very interesting. I'm not sure if you've read up on Urumqi or not, but the local Ughurs are muslim and it is a turkic-speaking region. That region is the gateway to the western oil region and I actually became very good friends with several of those local people. They don't like to speak Mandarin as it is not their native tongue. However, the Chinese government has now sent so many Chinese speakers into the capital that you should also have a chance to practice Chinese, but not as much as you would elsewhere in China. That has also been the centre of the muslim insurgency in the past in China. Ask around and try to go see some of the high-wire performers - they are tight knit tribes from the outback. I personally know one of the most famous ones and he took his baby on the high wire to train him as did his father and many generations before. Good luck on your trip. If you get time for an interesting side trip out of China, you may consider going to Kazahstan, but make sure you do it with local tour guides.

[mogoso]

Quote bendix: Now come come qwertz. Life is not all about comparing girls or body odours, you know. We're having a grown-up debate here . . . It's hardly our fault you have the attention span of a gnat, is it? :-)

This was a most hurtful thing to say and I've had to call my therapist to talk about feeling rejected again.

And another thing, I shan't read any of your nasty posts again until you learn to be civil.

BTW, you're right about the attention span, at least today, I've burned my toast twice and forgotten to put coffee in the percolator.

And if you think dementia is funny Mr..............................oh bugger, I've forgotten.

[mogoso]

They say Kunming is very nice at this time of year...or anytime of year for that matter!!

Kunming reminds me of Chiang Mai. There are many local "hilltribes" with their own dress and dialects. They have an ok zoo and a small aquarium and you can visit the stone forest (train ride) and theres many local dressmakers, my wife enjoyed herself.

Weathers nice though