China?

[Soph]

Wow - thanks again, its good to hear info - have done lots of research into the region and it sounds quite fascinating. We will be doing some school trips into the mountain areas, and on arrival I will find out more about getting to Kazahkstan. Getting really excited now! Looking forward to seeing these rope walkers too! Thanks again.

Edited June 30, 2007 by Soph

[chinthee]

Wow - thanks again, its good to hear info - have done lots of research into the region and it sounds quite fascinating. We will be doing some school trips into the mountain areas, and on arrival I will find out more about getting to Kazahkstan. Getting really excited now! Looking forward to seeing these rope walkers too! Thanks again.

Soph,

You enjoy that. That is one of the least explored areas of the earth and most fascinating. I admire your sense of adventure. Be careful. I know that whole area very well, and can tell you that you need to be careful.

[AlexLah]

No worrie , I have been in Uzbekistan and the Balkan just after the war.

China is great!

Do not believe all the negative story here.

People very friendly here in China and girls are OK.

[liketobe]

No worrie , I have been in Uzbekistan and the Balkan just after the war.

China is great!

Do not believe all the negative story here.

People very friendly here in China and girls are OK.

Sounds like all the issues have come to a close and the girls are "OK", with or with out body odour.

Great thread again TV'ers.

[Tinkelbell]

I guess it doesn`t matter too much which country is more polluted Thailand or China they are both really bad.When I am in Bangkok at least when the sun shines I often see blue sky.When I go to Guangzhou it is always very hazy .I forgot to mention earlier although I think its an asian thing as well but the Chinese love diigging holes and leaving piles of dirt everywhere.

regrds Ercorn

Neither do I. From my experience in China ( '01, '03 & '07), having been to Beijing, Shanghai, Xi-an, Hangzhou, living in Guangzhou for over a month twice in '01 & '07. I had not yet to see a clear blue sky not even a single day in China, it is always hazy as the OP mentioned. Is this got to do with the certain time of the year ? As I found out that I usually gone to China around the beginning of the year ( Jan - Feb).

Also, everytime when someone talking about the pollution in the US. I couldn't help but wonder am I missing something here. I say this as for a person who had spent years living in Hawaii, Miami, NY, Tampa, I never once experience a polluted air. I always feel blessed with gorgeous clear sky days.

[Soph]

I guess it doesn`t matter too much which country is more polluted Thailand or China they are both really bad.When I am in Bangkok at least when the sun shines I often see blue sky.When I go to Guangzhou it is always very hazy .I forgot to mention earlier although I think its an asian thing as well but the Chinese love diigging holes and leaving piles of dirt everywhere.

regrds Ercorn

Neither do I. From my experience in China ( '01, '03 & '07), having been to Beijing, Shanghai, Xi-an, Hangzhou, living in Guangzhou for over a month twice in '01 & '07. I had not yet to see a clear blue sky not even a single day in China, it is always hazy as the OP mentioned. Is this got to do with the certain time of the year ? As I found out that I usually gone to China around the beginning of the year ( Jan - Feb).

Also, everytime when someone talking about the pollution in the US. I couldn't help but wonder am I missing something here. I say this as for a person who had spent years living in Hawaii, Miami, NY, Tampa, I never once experience a polluted air. I always feel blessed with gorgeous clear sky days.

You should be sat where I am right now - my office is looking out over the Tian Shan mountain range, with the sun setting to the right and the most clear blue sky that is here most days. Im in Xinjiang and it is a truly beautiful part of China. Im sure its hazy during the winter months, but the summer here is a lovely time.

[meemiathai]

A female friend from the Hainan province of mine is back there and has been robbed a few days ago. She has to reapply an ID card. She has been going here and there for the last two days and told to buy loads of cigarettes. A few hundred dollars spent still not known when things could be arranged propperly! Enjoy corrupted China!!

[digitele]

JR,

I am sure there are a lot of good things on the surface in China. And yes I am sure the education system is much better than in Thailand. But we are talking about 1.2 billion people. Is it that difficult to build a beautiful outlook for the world to see with that man power?

Chinese in general are quite intelligent people. But the problem they have is most are very selfish and short sighted. They are the type that will kill the goose to get the golden eggs.

I suppose you as a farang(laowai) and working as a university professor(I guess), you won't have a lot of problems. But I think I saw you say you don't like to see people suffer. So are you saying that you think generally the average thais suffer a lot more than the average chinese?

I admit I have never lived in China but I have been living here in HK for 38 yrs. I have a lot of friends living and doing business in China. One friend does big business in China and complained a lot to me how seriously corrupted it is. I asked her why do you still do it, her answer is because she still makes fortunes after paying tea money. Guess how the money is generated. From the less protected people.

I have spent a good amount of time with mainland chinese women. Yes, most have bad teeth. And talk about cleaniness, they are no comparison to thai women!!! Thai women are money grabbers? Try chinese women! I am not bashing them though. They are actually good in nature, but it is a bloody human jungle in China. Like lions, hyenas, wild dogs, people eat people there.

I have of course been to those karaoke places. And women there are treated by chinese men like shit. You would not know if you don't have a good imagination of how evil human beings can be.

By the way, my mother and sister in law went together with my wife to Beijing last month. They threw up inside a toilet because it was too dirty!

I would like to learn more from you, JR.

Oh yes, I haven't even started talking about the faked stuff. You can get faked soy sauce, faked eggs and faked food using industrial material. So better watch what you put into your mouth. Lots of people are killed by food poison.

Wow, great posts!

[otton]

You seem to be saying that the government and the chinese population are 2 different things.

Which is exactly what you yourself seem to be saying all the time about Thailand... How funny, eh?

They are the same.

The correct answer to both of you.

True always and everywhere.

[meemiathai]

You seem to be saying that the government and the chinese population are 2 different things.

Which is exactly what you yourself seem to be saying all the time about Thailand... How funny, eh?

They are the same.

The correct answer to both of you.

True always and everywhere.

You caught me!

[otton]

You caught me!

Nothing special here, just the usual double standard always used by daydreaming Thai apologists like you

[Dakhar]

I like China, but I speak Mandarin, so I can function OK. Shanghai is my favorite city, the people are more "advanced." Less spitting and blowing smoke in your face... yelling etc.

Chinese women... mever dated a mainland chinese, dated a few Tiawanese... all of them pretty HiSo, but I got to say, I have met Isan farm girls with more Hygene.

I really like China, and I could live there a lot easier than Thailand, if the job was right, the pay right, I would do it.... but I know my wife would fight it with a passion. She hates China....

I have never been robed in Thailand, but I have in China!

[khunandy]

I work offshore for a Chinese company so most of my experience is confined to an offshore platform with 130 Chinese blokes. My limited experience with Chinese ladies is with a few office girls and BGs a week every month so I am probably not the best to contribute to this topic.

In the 3 years I have been here I have come to a few conclusions. I agree with the statement someone mentioned in a previous post where he said, I quite like then Chinese individually but as a collective I have to say I am not too fond of them. I have found them to be pushy, loud and rude. They really couldnt give a stuff about their environment (Thais are not much better actually) and if you think your bar bill gets padded in Thailand wait until you have a session in a Chinese bar.

The girls are definately not as hygenic as Thai girls, nor as fun loving. Everyone is very serious about money. It is probably a nicer place to go for a stroll down a boulavard in some tourist areas because you are not hassled by shop keepers (no Indian tailors) and they have so much money now that they have been doing quite a good job at making these sort of places attractive and pleasant.

As far as work goes , they are slippery charactors, always looking to blame the white guy or anybody really as long as the focus is not on themselves. I had a laptop stolen and reported it to the manager, his reply was that I must be wrong because everybody in the facility was "educated" It was a few weeks later when he found out that the laptop was actually a company asset that he reluctantly announced the theft.

In blaming others and denying the truth they are extremely skilled. They are also quite dangerous to work with, safety is more lip service than anything else and I sort of get the feeling that if you fell into a canal there would be 50 Chinamen standing on the bank watching you drown. Any accident will attract a crowd but very few offering to assist.

Some of the ladies are extremely attractive but for me they just dont have ..."it". As for a previous poster about their smell, I have to agree that the are a bit whiffy under the arms, nothing wrong with that from time to time but it is off putting. Where as most of the Thai girls I know insist on a shower whether they need it or not. I have had to actually ask (insist) Chinese girls have a shower.

Just as a point of interest the guys I know who have settled down with local girls seem to be happy enough but seem to have the same problems as the guys who settle down with some Thai girls. Most met in a bar where the girl was either working or socialising. Most go through the same dramas relating to trust, money, family bad luck stories etc etc. If anything I would say that the Chinese girls seem to be a bit more patient in hooking the fish though. The goal of building a village palace doesnt seem to be as popular, this could have a lot to do with the fact that an expat can actually own land in China (at least I think he can).

Interestingly one of my friends recently made the trip to his GFs home village in Central China and it sounded and looked, from his photos, very similar to an upcountry visit in Thailand.. Nice people with ready smiles. Poor by our standards but working and living as a functioning family unit. He came to work with the same photos we would come back from Issaan with, weird farm machinery, labour intensive rice farming, bit of a piss up on some local firewater and beer. Communal eating (but with small table and chairs ) He went to some amazing places in the mountains, touristy sort of places, but the crowds were incredible, jam packed.

The spitting and hucking up is terrible but maybe easing off a bit lately due to Government pressure and education, thats on the main streets anyway..the back streets still seem the same.

As for me, when I get into China I just dont feel the same joy as when I get back to Thailand. No doubt because of my ties in Thailand and I know I have to be away from my Thai life for a month but it "feels" nicer to sit down with a bottle of Singha and watch the Thais than it does in China watching the Chinese couples and their one fat, spoilt little son walking by.

Khun Andy

[meemiathai]

You caught me!

Nothing special here, just the usual double standard always used by daydreaming Thai apologists like you

And who are you? What is your other ID here?

You took just one sentence off from my post which I have totally forgotten about, how do you expect me to argue?

Gentleman?

I am thai apologist then what are you? Why do you have to hide? Scare of me pointing at your own double-standards?

[meemiathai]

I like China, but I speak Mandarin, so I can function OK. Shanghai is my favorite city, the people are more "advanced." Less spitting and blowing smoke in your face... yelling etc.

Chinese women... mever dated a mainland chinese, dated a few Tiawanese... all of them pretty HiSo, but I got to say, I have met Isan farm girls with more Hygene.

I really like China, and I could live there a lot easier than Thailand, if the job was right, the pay right, I would do it.... but I know my wife would fight it with a passion. She hates China....

I have never been robed in Thailand, but I have in China!

Look down and see if you've tied your shoe laces the next thing is you will be robbed.

[LaoPo]

A female friend from the Hainan province of mine is back there and has been robbed a few days ago. She has to reapply an ID card. She has been going here and there for the last two days and told to buy loads of cigarettes. A few hundred dollars spent still not known when things could be arranged propperly! Enjoy corrupted China!!

PM me if your female friend needs assistance in Hainan; where is she? Haikou or Sanya ?

LaoPo

[otton]

And who are you? What is your other ID here?

You took just one sentence off from my post which I have totally forgotten about, how do you expect me to argue?

What's there to argue? You have already admitted what's here for all to see anyway.

Gentleman?

I am thai apologist then what are you? Why do you have to hide?

Scare of me pointing at your own double-standards?

Board rules prevent me from telling you that. I wouldn't have any problem with it, I have no double standard.

Double standards are for daydreamers with an agenda, I am a realist with his feet firmly on the ground.

I hate double standards

[meemiathai]

A female friend from the Hainan province of mine is back there and has been robbed a few days ago. She has to reapply an ID card. She has been going here and there for the last two days and told to buy loads of cigarettes. A few hundred dollars spent still not known when things could be arranged propperly! Enjoy corrupted China!!

PM me if your female friend needs assistance in Hainan; where is she? Haikou or Sanya ?

LaoPo

Thanks! I will see if she needs any. Thank you anyway.

But may I ask what assistance you meant. You have connections? She is local. And recieving favours there almost guarantee paying back, and with a pretty woman that would mean sex. If you know what I mean.

[meemiathai]

And who are you? What is your other ID here?

You took just one sentence off from my post which I have totally forgotten about, how do you expect me to argue?

What's there to argue? You have already admitted what's here for all to see anyway.

Gentleman?

I am thai apologist then what are you? Why do you have to hide?

Scare of me pointing at your own double-standards?

Board rules prevent me from telling you that. I wouldn't have any problem with it, I have no double standard.

Double standards are for daydreamers with an agenda, I am a realist with his feet firmly on the ground.

I hate double standards

Congratulations for your success. And please do point me out in the future. I am always looking for improvement.

Looking forward to meeting you in the threads.

[otton]

In the 3 years I have been here I have come to a few conclusions.

Personal hygiene issues apart (really one of Thais' strong points) it sounds pretty much like Thailand actually.

I am saying this taking at face value what you say having no real experience with China myself but many years of living in SEA (Thailand mainly and Cambodia, Laos and the Philippines).

[otton]

Congratulations for your success. And please do point me out in the future.

I am always looking for improvement.

Looking forward to meeting you in the threads.

Count on that

I don't think I will be allowed here for long though

[meemiathai]

Congratulations for your success. And please do point me out in the future.

I am always looking for improvement.

Looking forward to meeting you in the threads.

Count on that

I don't think I will be allowed here for long though

Why?

[otton]

Why?

Because pointing out Thailand's negative points (no matter how true they are) is not well taken here...

[LaoPo]

A female friend from the Hainan province of mine is back there and has been robbed a few days ago. She has to reapply an ID card. She has been going here and there for the last two days and told to buy loads of cigarettes. A few hundred dollars spent still not known when things could be arranged propperly! Enjoy corrupted China!!

PM me if your female friend needs assistance in Hainan; where is she? Haikou or Sanya ?

LaoPo

Thanks! I will see if she needs any. Thank you anyway.

But may I ask what assistance you meant. You have connections? She is local. And recieving favours there almost guarantee paying back, and with a pretty woman that would mean sex. If you know what I mean.

1. I meant that I know a friend who knows a quite powerful -Chinese- Ladyfriend in Haikou.

2. But, sorry, your story is hard & difficult to believe; I mean that she had to pay "a few hundred dollars" and "loads of cigarettes"; sounds silly to me, knowing China a bit...

My wife tells me you just go to the police station and apply for a new one.

It is UNHEARD of that she is scammed/corrupted by the police. Chinese authorities are VERY strict in these things and IF someone did so, she should file complaints with the authorities and the one(s) who did that will lose their jobs and/or end up in jail !

If necessary my wife could assist...

LaoPo

[Acquiesce]

Haikou Hainan Island does have a place called Chengmai though.

[meemiathai]

A female friend from the Hainan province of mine is back there and has been robbed a few days ago. She has to reapply an ID card. She has been going here and there for the last two days and told to buy loads of cigarettes. A few hundred dollars spent still not known when things could be arranged propperly! Enjoy corrupted China!!

PM me if your female friend needs assistance in Hainan; where is she? Haikou or Sanya ?

LaoPo

Thanks! I will see if she needs any. Thank you anyway.

But may I ask what assistance you meant. You have connections? She is local. And recieving favours there almost guarantee paying back, and with a pretty woman that would mean sex. If you know what I mean.

1. I meant that I know a friend who knows a quite powerful -Chinese- Ladyfriend in Haikou.

2. But, sorry, your story is hard & difficult to believe; I mean that she had to pay "a few hundred dollars" and "loads of cigarettes"; sounds silly to me, knowing China a bit...

My wife tells me you just go to the police station and apply for a new one.

It is UNHEARD of that she is scammed/corrupted by the police. Chinese authorities are VERY strict in these things and IF someone did so, she should file complaints with the authorities and the one(s) who did that will lose their jobs and/or end up in jail !

If necessary my wife could assist...

LaoPo

I told my friend what you said and she said ask anyone living there they would tell you how corrupted those police are. So I am not sure who to believe.

She got very worried when I said I talked about the case on the internet and asked me not to mention her name. It would make things very difficult for her in the future.

I think she is fine though.

Anyway thanks again.

[Andrew Hicks]

lots of people are thinking of going somewhere else but thailand? philippines etc for various reasons visa rules etc...i was thinking china does any one know any website similar to stickmanbangkok or thaivisa for information on china, or does anyone have any experience there on bars,women, culture, etc, i have been there once for a short trip and the women are no where near as nice as bkk and not many people speak english, but i just wanted to get some ideas about there for an alternative to thailand as work seems easier to find there.

I have a theory that there is a cultural gentleness spreading east from India, encompassing Thailand and Laos. Colder winds blow from China which is a hard place, making Khmer and Vietnamese culture much tougher.

For these reasons I choose Thailand.

Malaysia's much more sophisticated and has a lot to offer, while the Phillipines is of its own kind.... loveable and barmy.

I was first in China in 1978 and the suffering and change they have undergone is enough to make it a difficult place.

Good luck in the bars and clubs and with the priorities of your life

[srisatch]

I just came back from Kunming. Not been there for 5 years. The place is transformed from a boondock to a European City. Clean, wealthy, civilised, paved central areas, lethally silent, electric motorbikes, appallingly hot VW and Citroen Taxis, but clearly the kind of place you can live a life...european food and wine easy to find...plenty of art, though little live music...Lijiang, Dali, Xishuanbanna all within striking distance, let alone Szichuan and Shangri La...Went to restaurants, karaokes and bath houses of a thousand varieties ranging from those where the family goes to those which are nothing but bordellos...the variety that of a huge country..nothing like Ratchada or Rama1X of course.

Interesting this thread got this far without a mention of the horrors perpetrated in Tibet!

Actually the 'world' (whatever that might be) survived for several thousand years with China and India at the heart of its trade and culture before Europe, let alone America came on the scene. This ios just what goes around comes around and this time it is come with the vengerance of huge populations.

Hygeine? You have all no doubt had the pleasure of listening to both Chinese and Thai girls on the subject of westerners' hygeine.......!!

All this is about is the eternal question...What's the reason for being anywhere? You can can steamed up about human rights, ecology, the price of saucepans or whatever.

I prefer not to live in totalitarian countries, whether politically totalitarian, culturally totalitarian or economically totalitarian. So I don't live in the USA. OK?

Happy Days!!

[sonnyJ]

Great reading has it been.

Anyone to guide me to serious basic Chinese courses avail. in Bangkok (language)?

[JR Texas]

Great reading has it been.

Anyone to guide me to serious basic Chinese courses avail. in Bangkok (language)?

I wrote this earlier, and just thought I would repost it here. I would add that corruption is extremely widespread in Thailand.......also China. But, in terms of dealing with police/immigration, I found China much easier and pleasant than Thailand. I also found far more corruption in Thailand than in China. Also, there is massive censorship in Thailand (same or perhaps worse than in China). The development going on in China is far greater than in Thailand. Thailand is insignificant in comparison. I could go on.........but know that there are many good places to live in China (islands away from the insanity). You just have to know where to go. This is what I said earlier:

Most of the views here seem extremely negative.......it makes me wonder whether the posters have actually been to China. Here is a different perspective......I have lived in China for about one year, in the north and south.

First, like all places, there are good and bad places to live in China. China is a huge country, about the same size as Russia and the USA.

Second, there are outstanding places to live in China that are superior to anything Thailand has to offer: Dalian in the north, for example, is a nice place surrounded by the ocean. Zhuhai, in the south and right across from Macau, is a very nice place.....clean city with nice parks....mountains on one side and the ocean on the other......much cleaner than any city in Thailand.

Third, the food is outstanding in many places in China.......wonderful food (I like the southern food better than the northern food)....how any person can say Thai food is better mystifies me........the variety of food in China is huge.

Fourth, in China you can find gorgeous mountain ranges and even deserts.......also you have the ocean and wonderful lakes and rivers, etc. You can find cool weather....one city is known for its perpetual Spring weather. Thailand is simply hot and humid and miserable most of the year.

Fifth, the Chinese people are, for the most part, very kind. The girls are also kind and many are both smart and gorgeous....I can't believe some of the stupid comments posted here about Chinese girls. And, for the record, virtually all of the so-called Karaoke Bars are places where men can meet women.......you know what I mean.......they are all over China. As an aside, Zhuhai even has its own Walking Street and it is much nicer than anything in Thailand. Reality check!

Sixth, the government is far more efficient than the Thai government and the visa/business rules actually make sense.....much easier to get a work permit, for example, in China than in Thailand. So simple and inexpensive and logical.....no leaving the country to do this and that and the other thing....no 90 day reporting.

Seventh, the system of education in China is far superior to anything in Thailand.......Thailand's top universities can't even remotely compete with China's top universities........and many universities in China are gorgeous places to be.......I was at two of them.

Finally, China's economy is far superior to Thailand.....no comparison....China is far more developed than Thailand.

Get real........I think this thread is dominated by the love Thailand or leave it crowd.