Considering installing Solar.

[PR3]

Thanks for the heads up i was wondering how to deal with that and not lose the benefit of fitting it in the first place.

The plan is to put on extra load; maybe 3 ACs for the days when he comes (usually 21 to 23 of the month) so we get to use the extra generated.

I have a couple of weeks to play around and try find a solution provided we get enough sunny days.

With the current set up we're likely to knock around 300 units off the bill once the second string is online and we don't go daft with the AC.

This home has always been uncomfortably hot on the 2nd floor (despite fitting insulation) so..... if the solar only knocks a bit off a month once its all up and running; and we get to use both floors in comfort it's still worth it to be honest just for the convenience

I notice Crossy and 007RED have a switch fitted to stop export.

Not sure how it's configured and have yet to ask.

But I suppose fitting one is likely a good idea.

Main thing is as you so rightly mention is not to get nabbed.

Cheers.

PR3

[007 RED]

8 hours ago, PR3 said:

 

I notice there's a country code to input....haven't done that or set the time so need to do it.

I logged into the inverter through the WiFi dongle and set it all up.

Now as I understand it I must install Solarman on a device in order to monitor the inverter?

I no longer see its WiFi signature when I search so can't see what's going on.

I looked on apps and there's 5 to choose from.

Would you kindly point me in the right direction @Crossy and @007 RED.

Cheers in advance.

 

Firstly... well done in getting your system up and running.  It looks a good job.

 

Re:  Country Code.   If I recall correctly, Sofar inverters seem to be set at the factory with a country code # 22, which according to their spec sheet is for "General European" but I found that it seemed to work OK with this setting.  That said, I did change a few days after initial commissioning to # 41 a which again according to their spec sheet is for "Thailand MEA" .  I actually live in a PEA area,  but the pain in the rear fiddling with the change button and passwords at every stage whilst up a ladder put me off changing it again to # 40.  It works well and outputs the right voltage and Hz.

 

Re:  The Sofar monitoring system.  I would recommend initially registering your system via the PC.  I have attached below a link that will take you to the login screen.  Just click on "Registration" (bottom right) and enter the details requested.  It's a simple task.

 

https://home.solarmanpv.com/login

 

Once you've registered, then download an app for your phone via whichever app provider you have for your phone.  The App is called SOLARMAN SMART.

 

FYI... The phone app only provides limited data which cannot be manipulated.  The PC version provides very comprehensive information and data which you can download and manipulate if you so desire.

 

Good Luck.

[007 RED]

6 hours ago, PR3 said:

 

I notice Crossy and 007RED have a switch fitted to stop export.

Not sure how it's configured and have yet to ask.

But I suppose fitting one is likely a good idea.

Main thing is as you so rightly mention is not to get nabbed.

 

Yep..... you definitely want to make sure that your meter reader does not see the disc spinning backwards at a hundred mile an hour.

 

The first task is to be aware on what day(s) your meter reader comes.  If you're not aware, take a look at your past bills as this will give the meter reading date, or if you go to the PEA website you can obtain details of past readings for about a year or more.  I think you will find that the meter reader normally comes within a couple of days 'window' so its best to power down until you get your system set up to not export.

 

The first thing that you will need is a CT Clamp.  Some models of Sofar inverters provide this in the box.  If yours doesn't then you can get one via Shopee https://shopee.co.th/????ยอดขายอันดับ1-CT-กันย้อน-ตัวกันย้อน-1P-Grid-tie-On-grid-SOFAR-อินเวอเตอร์-กริดไทล์-ออนกริด-MPPT-Solar-โซล่าเซลล์-i.12941857.7171127309?xptdk=8b960a1c-d7a2-4435-9a63-4d0acf5fa17b

 

This needs to be clamped over the Positive supply cable coming from your meter to the consumer box in the house.  Note... it has a direction arrow engraved on the body of the clamp which must face towards the meter.

 

The wires attached to the CT clamp are then connected to your CT input connection on the inverter.  You will then need to set your inverter "REACTIVE" setting to zero.  Don't ask why they have called it reactive as I don't know, but it's the setting which dictates how much power can be fed into the grid.

 

With the CT clamp in place and the reactive setting set to zero, your inverter will not export, it will only produce enough (or less) power as is being used in the house.  If you put a simple switch into the line from the CT clamp to the inverter, when the switch is open the inverter will export, when close it will not export.  Its then a case of remembering when to turn off your export before the meter reader comes.

 

I initially did this using a simple light switch housed in a box a shown below.

 

I have subsequently adopted @Crossy NO EXPORT device which allows me to control the export facility via the internet as shown in the screen shot below.

 

 

I hope this helps and good luck with rest of your project.

 

[Phnom Penh Trader]

 Be aware that after 8-10 years your inverter will blow up they cost about £5-6,000 in the UK so probably even more expensive in Thailand?

Also that solar panels work in series so the whole array will only perform to the lowest performing panel,or if one stops working they all stop working.

For the earlier posts regarding using the majority of electricity at night that is what lithium ion batteries (x 2) are for to store the electricity produced in the day,that will require another inverter also to convert DC to AC cost around £5-6,000 in Britain.

Plus there are plug ins available to make the panels work in parallel meaning they all perform separately to the best of their abilities,they are about £80 per panel in the UK so probably again more expensive in Thailand?

Morale of the story : Being green ain’t cheap!

[Muhendis]

1 hour ago, Phnom Penh Trader said:

 Be aware that after 8-10 years your inverter will blow up they cost about £5-6,000 in the UK so probably even more expensive in Thailand?

Also that solar panels work in series so the whole array will only perform to the lowest performing panel,or if one stops working they all stop working.

For the earlier posts regarding using the majority of electricity at night that is what lithium ion batteries (x 2) are for to store the electricity produced in the day,that will require another inverter also to convert DC to AC cost around £5-6,000 in Britain.

Plus there are plug ins available to make the panels work in parallel meaning they all perform separately to the best of their abilities,they are about £80 per panel in the UK so probably again more expensive in Thailand?

Morale of the story : Being green ain’t cheap!

I would encourage you to do your research a bit before comparing UK prices with prices in Thailand. 

Also it would be helpful to others if you could give examples of inverters that have "blown up".

[Crossy]

1 hour ago, Phnom Penh Trader said:

 Be aware that after 8-10 years your inverter will blow up they cost about £5-6,000 in the UK so probably even more expensive in Thailand?

Also that solar panels work in series so the whole array will only perform to the lowest performing panel,or if one stops working they all stop working.

For the earlier posts regarding using the majority of electricity at night that is what lithium ion batteries (x 2) are for to store the electricity produced in the day,that will require another inverter also to convert DC to AC cost around £5-6,000 in Britain.

Plus there are plug ins available to make the panels work in parallel meaning they all perform separately to the best of their abilities,they are about £80 per panel in the UK so probably again more expensive in Thailand?

Morale of the story : Being green ain’t cheap!

 

Not cheap indeed, but most definitely not that expensive either.

 

A decent quality on-grid hybrid inverter which incorporates the MPPT controller, DC-AC inverter and battery charger runs to about 48,000 Baht (1,100 squid or so) for a 5kW unit, there are cheaper units available of course. We have one of these https://www.lazada.co.th/products/solar-sofar-hybrid-on-off-inverter-hyd-5000es-50kwpea-list-approve-i2064152396-s6736374882.html

 

I wouldn't use Li-ion batteries, they have a nasty habit of going whoosh if abused, LiFePO4 packs are much safer (although they still need appropriate safety precautions), a 48V 100Ah pack (About 4.5kWh of usable storage) runs to anything upwards of 50k Baht, DIY a pack with second-life cells and you can go cheaper if you like.

 

Panels are about 3-4,000 Baht for 340W polycrystaline, a bit more for mono.

 

Most panels incorporate bypass diodes which will mitigate shading to some extent although not as well as panel optimisers (but IMHO spend the $$$ on more panels) or micro-inverters (good luck adding storage).

 

[007 RED]

@PR3  Further to my post above concerning NO EXPORT, I've found this bit of info from Sofar in my files relating to the CT clamp.  Hope this helps.

[sezze]

I never heard of inverter blowing up . Prob a bit over the top , since the prices mentioned are also . In Belgium and Netherlands , prices of inverters are not so much different then in Thailand , leaving the cheapest ones out , so standard grid tie +/-1000 euro .  Inverters with batteries , somebody i know from my work is having a 22kW battery placed coupled with his grid tie inverter , fully programmable on hour by hour base ( in case they charge energy consumption unit price in peak ... ) fully installed with 12y warranty ( including batteries) if i remember correct for around 15000 euro .

Inverter blowing up , prob means , a small smoke trail , possible even a small pop , and some electric smell . 90/100 the condensators are gone and they are repairable . 

[PR3]

@007 RED Thanks so much for the detailed description of how to go about sorting the problem regarding no export and the setting up advice, so grateful.

I been on Husband duty today so didn't really get much done with regards to the solar other than cursory glances to check performance and finding the CT device what came with it.

The wiring is red and blue, I imagine the red is the +.

It was a hazy sunshine day with a few patches of cloud around but still managed to move forward pretty much zero between 9am and 3:30 this afternoon.

That felt like a result and is making me think about the next 4 panels.

Anyhoo back to the CT clamp. I was hoping to fit it inside the house consumer unit but there's insufficient space to get the damned thing around the live cable. 

And I'm more than reluctant to start messing around with hot wiring.

Only other place I can find access is the inspection/connection cover on the outside wall.

The thing is.....its about a 20 metre run to the inverter once I've negotiated corners, obstacles and placed it in trunking. 

Will that sort of length affect the performance of the CT device runnning in 2 x 0.5 outdoor cable (i bought 8 metres today so i could still use that up to the switch maybe)?

Otherwise I don't know.

Also the switch used to isolate the clamp, should it be a 2 pole or is a single pole switch okay on the live (I guess)  only reason I ask is that I have 2 single pole in stock.

And ...lol...so many questions. To identify the live rather than the neutral would a clamp meter suffice?

I think a beer is in order, not thirsty just a headache Lol.

Cheers All the Best.

PR3

 

[Crossy]

Cable length won't be an issue ???? 

 

 

To isolate the CT you just need to break one of the wires, it's low voltage/current** so any cheap switch will do the trick, I used a 125V rated miniature toggle switch.

 

** Do note that these high-frequency "transformerless" inverters can often give a "tingle" on the interface pins, so do kill the power to the inverter before handling the wiring. It's not going to do you any harm other than making you drop the screwdriver, but best to be safe. 

[007 RED]

7 hours ago, PR3 said:

 

Anyhoo back to the CT clamp. I was hoping to fit it inside the house consumer unit but there's insufficient space to get the damned thing around the live cable. 

And I'm more than reluctant to start messing around with hot wiring.

Only other place I can find access is the inspection/connection cover on the outside wall.

The thing is.....its about a 20 metre run to the inverter once I've negotiated corners, obstacles and placed it in trunking. 

Will that sort of length affect the performance of the CT device runnning in 2 x 0.5 outdoor cable (i bought 8 metres today so i could still use that up to the switch maybe)?

Otherwise I don't know.

Also the switch used to isolate the clamp, should it be a 2 pole or is a single pole switch okay on the live (I guess)  only reason I ask is that I have 2 single pole in stock.

And ...lol...so many questions. To identify the live rather than the neutral would a clamp meter suffice?

 

Hi @PR3... No problem...this is what the forum is for - sharing info and experiences.

 

 As indicated in my previous post it must be located somewhere between the consumer unit and the supply meter and it must be attached to the live supply wire.   Yes a clamp meter will help identify the live wire.  That said, if you put it on the wrong wire, or the arrow on the clamp is facing the house, the CT just wont work and your inverter will export all the time. So if that happens you just swap the clamp to the other wire and make sure the arrow is pointing toward the meter.

 

Initially I thought that I could clamp the CT onto the live cable on the pole outside the house and then run my CT connecting cable along with the few communications cables which pass our car port where the inverter is mounted.  I was advised that if the communications companies spot a non communications cable they are likely to cut it and report it to the local PEA because they (the communications companies) have to pay a 'rental' fee to the PEA to use their poles etc.

 

So I ended up locating the CT clamp in the roof space where the cables come in to the house from the pole.  I then ran the connecting CT cable across the roof space and across a 4 meter gap to the car port.  The CT cable being secured at both the house and car port.

 

The approximate length of connecting cable between the CT clamp and the inverter connection is about 30 meters.  When I discussed the wire size with @Crossy, he informed me that he has used 2 x 0.5mm² cable in the past without any problem, but with his current set up he used 2 x 1mm² cable for about the same length (30 meters).  So because of the cable having to cross the gap between the house and the car port I opted for the 2 x 1mm² cable and this has worked fine.

 

The light switch that I used was a single pole switch (big enough for her in doors to use).  It just need to open and close the circuit between the CT clamp and the inverter.  Remember.... when the switch is in the 'OPEN' position your inverter will EXPORT, and when closed it will NOT EXPORT.

 

Hope this helps and good luck.

 

PS.... Just seen that @Crossy has also replied.. he's an early bird too.

[PR3]

Hi Gents,

  Well I wired the CT up. With the arrow pointing toward the meter feed in.

Went to change the reactive settings to zero and just says fail every time.

At the moment there is   Reactive Enable or Reactive Disable.

                                          Under excited,  utility or over excited.

                                          Reactive setting.

 

The inverter is currently on....Reactive enable, under excited and *.** for settings.

If I try to change anything I get a fail notice.

I feel I've done everything right but I'm stumped for now.

 

Meter reader doesn't come for 13 days yet so gives a bit of time.

 

It'll l have to wait til a bit later in the day i got an iceing up aircon to deal with and the lekky gate is playing up...never a dull moment here.

Cheers

PR3

[Crossy]

39 minutes ago, PR3 said:

Hi Gents,

  Well I wired the CT up. With the arrow pointing toward the meter feed in.

Went to change the reactive settings to zero and just says fail every time.

At the moment there is   Reactive Enable or Reactive Disable.

                                          Under excited,  utility or over excited.

                                          Reactive setting.

 

The inverter is currently on....Reactive enable, under excited and *.** for settings.

If I try to change anything I get a fail notice.

I feel I've done everything right but I'm stumped for now.

 

Meter reader doesn't come for 13 days yet so gives a bit of time.

 

It'll l have to wait til a bit later in the day i got an iceing up aircon to deal with and the lekky gate is playing up...never a dull moment here.

Cheers

PR3

 

Could be the wrong setting? 

 

On your inverter it's "Reflux Power" or "Anti Reflux" I think, check the manual.

 

"Reactive" is something else and should be left as default (it's used for correcting poor Power Factor).

[007 RED]

@PR3.... my humble apology for putting you through any unnecessary stress.... @Crossy is perfectly correct, it is the REFLUX POWER setting which should be set to zero to stop export when a CT clamp is connected to the inverter and not the REACTIVE setting which I incorrectly advised in an earlier post.

 

FYI... I've just scaled the ladder and checked my inverter setting to make absolutely sure.

 

I hope that you've managed to get it to work now.  Grovel, grovel ???? ????

 

 

Edited September 8, 2022 by 007 RED

[PR3]

Lol that's okay a bit of stress is a normal condition at this house,

I was reading earlier this morning regarding power reflux and did wonder.

So, up the ladder I set the Power reflux at 0 and the inverter wound down and made 0.03 kW despite the sun showing a little and 2 washing machines on.

This was with the CT on or off. 

So I disabled the power reflux and back up to 1kw.

 

I am going to have to do a bit more research in the manual and do a bit more experimenting tomorrow after sorting the gate and with nothing running in the house.

 

Oh I bought another 420w panel when I went for 20metres of 1mm twin cable. 

Lots of self control.

I put it with the other 3 next to the concrete mixer I "needed" earlier in the year hahaha.

Cheers Gents

PR3

[Crossy]

25 minutes ago, PR3 said:

This was with the CT on or off. 

 

Working from memory here but IIRC disconnecting the CT will NOT make it export unless the solar input is zero (the inverter stays at whatever power it was generating at the time.).

 

Connect the CT at any time and it will stop export immediately.

 

We only change our CT connection at midnight coz that's when the auto system does it.

[PR3]

Hi Gents,

I've removed the CT from where it was and will put it in the consumer unit.

It's a tight squeeze in there so I'd rather only do it once.

@Crossy the images are what I got in the Sofar install kit.

This is what I'm supposed to be fitting I expect.

And the arrow should point towards the meter?

Will bring inside house and put in an enclosure with 2 pole toggle switch I had handy.

[Crossy]

Yup, that's the beast.

 

Arrow points towards the meter (incoming supply) if it's installed on the live wire as per the instructions.

 

It WILL work on the neutral but needs to point the other way.

 

[PR3]

Brilliant thanks for that.

PR3

[PR3]

Well no idea what's gone on. Just checked the inverter on the way back from the putting some garbage out and it's dead.

Was perfectly fine all day and haven't touched anything.

Tried isolating and firing up again and nothing..oh dear.

Will have a proper look in the morning, hopefully just a fuse or something.

 

[PR3]

Quick update,couldn't wait til morning so went and checked it out, 232v ac from the connection plug so seems power is not an issue.

I so hope its not failed after only a few days.

I really don't fancy the warranty roller-coaster.

Ahhhh cr*p

[PR3]

Further update....So I bypassed the overload protection (just in case it couldn't send enough current?) and instead connected to the 2 pole AC mcb on the combiner panel and still no life at the inverter.????

Have contacted the supplier will update as things develop and of course have another check of everything else in the morning.

Fingers crossed can sort it out.

Will try stay positive and look at fitting the second string as soon as.

All the best.

PR3

[007 RED]

11 hours ago, PR3 said:

Well no idea what's gone on. Just checked the inverter on the way back from the putting some garbage out and it's dead.

Was perfectly fine all day and haven't touched anything.

Tried isolating and firing up again and nothing..oh dear.

Will have a proper look in the morning, hopefully just a fuse or something.

 

@PR3.... Looking at the time that you posted the above e.g. around 9pm, and taking account that you mentioned  "just on the way back from putting out the garbage", I would assume that it was dark.  If I'm correct in that assumption, then your inverter would be 'asleep' and doing nothing.  This is normal.  You should find that once the sun starts to appear on the horizon at around 6:30 am it will, or should, kick back into life.  Likewise, once the sun disappears below the horizon at around 6:30 pm the inverter will go into 'sleep' mode again. 

 

I hope that I'm right and that you've not got a problem with the inverter.

 

Good luck 

Edited September 11, 2022 by 007 RED

[PR3]

@007 RED Thanks for the tip. 

I wasn't even aware they went to sleep.

One thing I will say, they are deep sleepers because nothing I could do would wake it up.

I went outside  just now and the alarm was on because the power supply was off, reconnected everything back up where it should be and all is well.

That really had me worried I tossed and turned all night.

 

So in summary I didn't sleep well at all because the inverter did.????

 

Live and learn I suppose.

Cheers All

PR3

[007 RED]

1 minute ago, PR3 said:

@007 RED Thanks for the tip. 

I wasn't even aware they went to sleep.

One thing I will say, they are deep sleepers because nothing I could do would wake it up.

I went outside  just now and the alarm was on because the power supply was off, reconnected everything back up where it should be and all is well.

That really had me worried I tossed and turned all night.

 

So in summary I didn't sleep well at all because the inverter did.????

 

Live and learn I suppose.

Cheers All

PR3

Glad that my assumption was correct. 

 

Yes 'basic' inverters go into 'sleep' mode when there is no light to activate the photoelectric cells.  If you look at the spec data for your inverter you will see a mention of something called 'Start-up Voltage... mine is 70V.... which means that the panels need to produce 70V before the inverter will 'kick into life.  At that point the inverter goes into a 'Check' mode and if everything is OK it starts producing AC.

 

FYI... things are different if you have a hybrid inverter that is connected to batteries as these will remain active to monitor/control the 'backflow' of DC from the batteries and convert to AC. 

 

Time to relax now.... have another beer.

[KhunLA]

Just leave a night light on ... helps avoid stumping one's toes also.

[PR3]

Good Evening All

 

So yesterday i had a plan about putting the rails on for the second string of panels.

Started to get stressed out over the potential of falling through the damned thing.

The frame has 800 x 800(mm) gaps where the tin goes on its a bit of a twitcher.

No chance of access due to the boards already being in place sooooo.

Consequently got 1 rail on at the edge ????

Today awoke with a bit of determination. So I cut a load of box up I had left from the supports off the first string and got cracking. By hook or crook I was gonna get this done.

Had to maneuver the bits of steel around to provide support whilst balancing me and the damned panels.

I had to keep taking a break because my feet were sweating so bad in my crocs (happens when I'm full on sh***ing it) so made it hard to feel sure footed.

But eventually got it finished. Pheeeew.

I have to add was so happy to look at it done at last.

Stuck the meter on and getting 166vdc from the 4 panels which is as spec thankfully.

Haven't finished the wiring up that's tomorrow's task and that's when I'll have a better idea of how it's gone and whether they'll perform on load.

Fingers crossed will be okay.

On a seperate note was getting 2.37kw from the front string (according to the inverter readout) so happy with that from a lab rated 2.96.

Will update with the final push (until storage and a hybrid become necessary..????)

All the Best.

PR3

 

 

[PR3]

Well all went well with cabling and trunking so at midday brought the 2nd string online.

3.32kw was the best I saw but it hasn't been the sunniest of days.

Still, very pleased with the result.

Total cost in the end was a smudge over 91000baht so not too expensive at all.

Fingers crossed nothing goes pear shaped anytime soon. 

I'll update from time to time.

Thanks ever so much for all the assistance  and advice I have been given.

Quite sure I'd never have got through the install without the help.

Thinking about it I still haven't tested the CT no export as yet so no doubt I'll be asking for more .

All the Best Everyone.

Mark.

[PR3]

Good Evening All,

 

Apologies; I haven't been posting for a while have been sick with many things starting with covid last November Since then Type A flu (worse than but likely complicated by covid). Mystery illness that had me on my *ss and then food poisoning. 

 

Anyways a bit better now and slowly on the up.

 

Cold season wasn't the best time for the Solar set up. 

 

It certainly poked holes in my original plans of very low winter bills when it became apparent that the 7 panels on the front of the home hardly do anything as the sun pretty much doesn't touch them for about 7 weeks.

At that time the back 4 made the solar power so better than nothing, shame really as there isn't much room to mount more in that location.

 

Anyways the CT clamp still doesn't work...lol.

Despite my many attempts,  have finally contacted Sofar regarding this and waiting for a reply.

Until then we lose roughly a day and halfs free power.

 

Most important update is that one of my solar panels has shattered. 

 

Went to check them today as it had poured down in the afternoon and there it was, completely end to end and edge to edge small crazed bits of glass. Most depressing. I checked for any signs of localised damage perhaps something had fallen on it but nothing, maybe thermal shock caused by the downpour...who knows?

 

We contacted the shop we bought from and things looked promising for a replacement at first.

Then they transferred us to the claims department and pretty much got farked off immediately no warranty and very little explanation; so will contact the manufacturer next to see their response.

 

Not going to name and shame until then, and only by PM don't want to end up in bother..Lol.

 

I did climb over and check it seems its laminated so nothing is going to get inside thankfully. 

 

I'll keep an eye on the output from PV2 and observe just how bad it's affecting the other 3.

Anyways on a better note I didn't die and sunny season is coming. 

 

Hopefully a decent sumer will see more production.

 

All the Best Gents.

Mark.

 

 

[007 RED]

@PR3 Glad to hear that you're on the mend. Covid can knock you for 6, but then to get type A flue on top as well is shear bad luck.  Take things easy.

 

Sorry to hear that the CT is not doing what it should despite having tried all the combination that have been suggested.  It is a possibility, albeit remote, that the CT is faulty.  Hopefully  Sofar can give you some additional pointers.

 

Having a panel shatter is not something that happens every day.  It is possible, as you said, that the downpour caused a thermal shock, but personally l think the odds on that happening are very slim. You didn't mention, but if the cracking/crazing is horizontal across the panel, it might have been caused by thermal expansion of the glass withe the retaining clamps being to tight.  Lets hope the manufacturer arranges with your supplier to provide a replacement asap.

 

As l said earlier, take thing easy, relax and have another beer.  There's always tomorrow.

 

Good luck.