Getting past “general doctors” at hospitals ?

[scubascuba3]

36 minutes ago, tingtongfarang said:

i spent a week in hospital after heart failure and never seen a single doctor, only nurses who would lift me onto a gurney and wheel me to the atm every 2 days, had to sign myself out, gf came and wheeled me out to a taxi, i was in a realy bad condition.

Sounds like a nice experience, was it because you couldn't or wouldn't pay the full fee? which hospital?

[tingtongfarang]

1 hour ago, scubascuba3 said:

Sounds like a nice experience, was it because you couldn't or wouldn't pay the full fee? which hospital?

i was paying the full price.. thy just wanted paying every 2 days or hand over my card and pin number that was nono 100%

Edited September 19, 2022 by tingtongfarang

[FolkGuitar]

3 hours ago, CMBob said:

I can understand your angst at the additional tests they required of you but, once you learned that you couldn't only get the one hearing test, why not simply decline at that point in time?  

Yes, I could have declined, except that I needed a very accurate audiogram, with more exhaustive testing than is usually given in a Hearing Aid store. I also hoped that with Bangkok Hospital being the newest, and some consider the best, their equipment had a chance to be new and better as well. I was willing to put up with their policy of having to see a doctor first. However, I would have preferred that they at least inform me of this practice when I called to find out about the cost of an audiogram. At THAT point, I should have been told that I would be required to buy an entire package, and if I wanted one test, I'd have to pay for two of them plus a consultation.  Had I simply been told that when I called, I wouldn't have given it a second thought. I didn't want those extras, but I'd put up with them if necessary as I did need a careful exam.  I'm quite sure the person who told me the cost of the exam knew that I would have to pay for unwanted tests and consults because of hospital policy, but didn't want to scare off a potential customer.  I find that practice rather underhanded.

 

3 hours ago, Sheryl said:

It appears you have mistitled the thread and your problem is not "getting past" a general doctor to see a specialist - -which as many others have explained, is a non-issue in a private hospital, you simply request the specialist you want, no referral is required --

Really?  Bangkok Hospital IS a private hospital. Just three days ago I was NOT permitted to see the Audiologist without having a pre-exam by an ENT doctor FIRST, then the ENT doctor would prescribe the Audiolgy test.  I specifically stated that I did NOT want an ENT to examine me as I was NOT there for any medical 'problem.'  No deal. Either see the doctor first, or no Audiology test.

[Sheryl]

4 hours ago, FolkGuitar said:

 

 

Really?  Bangkok Hospital IS a private hospital. Just three days ago I was NOT permitted to see the Audiologist without having a pre-exam by an ENT doctor FIRST, then the ENT doctor would prescribe the Audiolgy test.  I specifically stated that I did NOT want an ENT to examine me as I was NOT there for any medical 'problem.'  No deal. Either see the doctor first, or no Audiology test.

 

Getting an audiology test of course requires a doctor's oreder, so do all other types of tests, the only exception being check up packages.

 

This has nothing to do with the subject, which is whether or no it requires first seeing a general doctor to get a referral to see a specialist.  Were that the case (it is not) you would not have been able to see the ENT doctor directly.

[NancyL]

I agree with Sheryl's recommendation to see Dr. Morgan first.  Yes, I know she is a "general doctor", but she can help the OP to understand what specialist is needed, if any.  I think the OP mentioned that the lump is causing his wife pain, so it probably does need some attention.  It could be anything from a lipoma to lymphoma, two very different things, both in terms of the type of specialists required and how serious they are.  Dr. Morgan can help the OP and his wife to understand what they're dealing with.

Sometimes the specialist doctors here have a tendency to "dismiss" patients if the problem doesn't fall within their speciality.  

[arithai12]

9 hours ago, FolkGuitar said:

Really?  Bangkok Hospital IS a private hospital. Just three days ago I was NOT permitted to see the Audiologist without having a pre-exam by an ENT doctor FIRST, then the ENT doctor would prescribe the Audiolgy test.  I specifically stated that I did NOT want an ENT to examine me as I was NOT there for any medical 'problem.'  No deal. Either see the doctor first, or no Audiology test.

I find that quite normal and I don't understand what's the issue - or how it's related to the OP.

The ENT doctor IS the specialist, not the technician performing the audiology test. The doctor will not only prescribe the test -if needed- but also see you after to talk about it.

It's like you enter a hospital and demand to get an x-ray of your chest because you feel a pain, without seeing a doctor. Or a lady who has missed two periods and wants to get an ultrasound and take the result home without talking to an ob-gyn.

 

If you want to skip the doctor,  maybe you can try a shop selling hearing aids, I think they will do an extensive test and discuss it with you.

[FolkGuitar]

7 hours ago, arithai12 said:

1. The ENT doctor IS the specialist, not the technician performing the audiology test. The doctor will not only prescribe the test -if needed- but also see you after to talk about it.

 

2. If you want to skip the doctor,  maybe you can try a shop selling hearing aids, I think they will do an extensive test and discuss it with you.

1.  I'm not sure why people post opinions and believe them to be facts...

An 'Audiologist' is a 'Doctor of Audiology,' not a technician. Those who pursue the profession of audiology will be required to complete a bachelor's degree and a AuD, PhD, or AuD/PhD combination degree.

Not quite a learn-on-the-job technician.

 

2. Had you actually read my comments in this thread before you posted, you would have known that I DID go to a Hearing Aid store first, but wanted a more thorough exam with more up-to-date equipment.  Of course hearing aid shops will do audiology testing, but few have the facilities of a large hospital. That said, they only charge 300-400 Baht for an exam that lasts 5 minutes. The exam at the hospital took 25 minutes. Much more thorough. And what if you do NOT want or need to discuss the results with a doctor?  Why should you be forced to pay for something you do not want? I had absolutely no need for a doctor's consult. I just needed a piece of paper to send to a hearing aid company. I've been a hearing aid wearer for the past 25 years. I have the software and equipment to program my own hearing aids and have been doing so for years. I can 'read' an audiogram. I don't need to spend 500 Baht for a doctor to say 'Gee, you don't hear so well, do you? Which is pretty much ALL the doctor could say, as there is no medical correction available for my hearing.  Would you be happy to pay an extra 500 Baht to hear that? Especially when you've heard it so many times before... 

Are you content to pay for unwanted and unneeded services in a hospital?

Edited September 20, 2022 by FolkGuitar

[SammyJ]

On 9/19/2022 at 11:36 AM, tingtongfarang said:

i spent a week in hospital after heart failure and never seen a single doctor, only nurses who would lift me onto a gurney and wheel me to the atm every 2 days, had to sign myself out, gf came and wheeled me out to a taxi, i was in a realy bad condition.

What hospital?  While not always up to standards i have seen in the best hospitals in the US in major cities, still have seen very good care here.

[Sheryl]

On 9/20/2022 at 8:04 AM, FolkGuitar said:

1.  I'm not sure why people post opinions and believe them to be facts...

An 'Audiologist' is a 'Doctor of Audiology,' not a technician. Those who pursue the profession of audiology will be required to complete a bachelor's degree and a AuD, PhD, or AuD/PhD combination degree.

Not quite a learn-on-the-job technician.

 

 

Not usually the case in Thailand.  Here, only a few have a degree beyond bachelor's.

 

There was an American audiologist  (PHD) on this board some years ago who commented on the huge difference and the absence of audiologists with doctorate degrees in Thailand.

 

 

[arithai12]

On 9/20/2022 at 8:04 AM, FolkGuitar said:

1.  I'm not sure why people post opinions and believe them to be facts...

An 'Audiologist' is a 'Doctor of Audiology,' not a technician. Those who pursue the profession of audiology will be required to complete a bachelor's degree and a AuD, PhD, or AuD/PhD combination degree.

Not quite a learn-on-the-job technician.

Look, my last post on this. Clearly you are on your own personal crusade.

 

Many years ago, in Europe, I managed to puncture one of my eardrums. Blood and all. I went to a local hospital, spoke with the ENT doctor (the guy with the PhD). He examined me, then he sent me to take a test in some "audiology" (?) test room netx door. Waited a while, a male nurse appeared. Forgive me if for the sake of brevity I call that a "technician". Certainly not a PhD guy or "doctor of Audiology". He switched off the lights, went into a cabin, rotated knobs and sliders and asked me if I could hear this and that for some ten minutes. Perhaps this is what you have in mind? I was summoned back to the doctor (the one with PhD) office and we talked about medication, recovery, and so on. btw, I was presented with a bill in comparison to which the ignominy of the package that you refuse from BKH would appear very sweet.

 

It would have been impossible for me to see the "test-taking guy" by himself without seeing the doctor first. Fact, not opinion. And that's why I say that I find the response you got from BKH quite logical. Now this is my opinion, I admit.

 

Good luck with your crusade.

[FolkGuitar]

20 hours ago, arithai12 said:

Look, my last post on this. Clearly you are on your own personal crusade.

 

You're correct. I am on a crusade to eliminate unneeded medical tests. This is a serious problem all over the world these days.  People have been brainwashed into believing that they need mommy or daddy to tell them what's best for them. In some modern countries, it's even the common practice to go to see a doctor in a hospital when one has a headache or the common cold!  (Usual procedure in Japan.)

 

 

Regarding the fellow who administered your audiogram, if he did NOT have a tertiary degree in Audiology, then he wasn't an 'audiologist.' He was a Audiological Technician.  Your punctured eardrum required the services of a medical doctor. My needing a piece of paper did not. It just required an audiologist... or even an audiological technician. No interpretation needed or wanted. I had other 'experts' that I trusted more who would do that when they received the paper. The doctor's consult and the tympanogram test were just padding the bill.

Edited September 30, 2022 by FolkGuitar

[FolkGuitar]

21 hours ago, Sheryl said:

 

Not usually the case in Thailand.  Here, only a few have a degree beyond bachelor's.

Then are they really Audiologists? Or are they just people working in Hearing Aid stores as audiological technicians?

 

 

[Sheryl]

2 hours ago, FolkGuitar said:

Then are they really Audiologists? Or are they just people working in Hearing Aid stores as audiological technicians?

 

 

They  are not  doctors of audiology. But in hospitals they will usually have at least a bachelor degree in a related field and sometimes a masters. (As of 2013, date of last report I have seen, there were only 23 audiologists with masters level education in the entire country).

 

In terms of how they are utilized and how they function, I would describe most as technicians. Even in the rare case where they have education and skill to perform as more, they are not utilized or viewed that way within the Thai health care system.

 

At hearing aid stores, I do not know  and suspect there is a lot of variability, with some having on-the-job training and no formal background, maybe others having some formal background.

 

 

[crouchpeter]

On 9/19/2022 at 7:42 AM, scubascuba3 said:

Just another example of bill padding, like the mandatory blood pressure and temperature checks

You don't get into any hospital without having BP, weight and temperature taken. It's sooo logical!

[crouchpeter]

On 9/19/2022 at 11:36 AM, tingtongfarang said:

i spent a week in hospital after heart failure and never seen a single doctor, only nurses who would lift me onto a gurney and wheel me to the atm every 2 days, had to sign myself out, gf came and wheeled me out to a taxi, i was in a realy bad condition.

You were obviously suffering from acute imaginitis!

[scubascuba3]

24 minutes ago, crouchpeter said:

You don't get into any hospital without having BP, weight and temperature taken. It's sooo logical!

Not logical if you go to the hospital on consecutive days, or for me, i wanted them to check a wart, blood pressure, temperature, weight was overkill, but pads the bill nicely 

[FolkGuitar]

This is especially the case with an audiogram. The test is totally non-invasive, nothing put in-nothing taken out. In fact, all you do is listen to beep tones or speaking in background noise in a pair of ordinary headphones and press a button. That's it. Out pops a piece of paper with your audiogram.  And that is all I needed.

 

If it IS legal to do so, and we are NOT required to have a doctor's prescription to get an audiogram in a hearing aid store, with possibly no medically-trained people involved, and we do know that it is...

...then 'requiring' a doctor's exam first, then more audiological tests than had been asked for, followed by another doctor's consult afterwards, and being charged for them despite being told that these were not wanted or needed is nothing more than the hospital covering its a$$ and padding the bill with unwanted and unneeded tests.  Hey, if someone wants a doctor's consult and a more complete audiological examination, then this is great. But only if you need all of it.

[nigelforbes]

On 9/19/2022 at 3:01 PM, FolkGuitar said:

Yes, I could have declined, except that I needed a very accurate audiogram, with more exhaustive testing than is usually given in a Hearing Aid store. I also hoped that with Bangkok Hospital being the newest, and some consider the best, their equipment had a chance to be new and better as well. I was willing to put up with their policy of having to see a doctor first. However, I would have preferred that they at least inform me of this practice when I called to find out about the cost of an audiogram. At THAT point, I should have been told that I would be required to buy an entire package, and if I wanted one test, I'd have to pay for two of them plus a consultation.  Had I simply been told that when I called, I wouldn't have given it a second thought. I didn't want those extras, but I'd put up with them if necessary as I did need a careful exam.  I'm quite sure the person who told me the cost of the exam knew that I would have to pay for unwanted tests and consults because of hospital policy, but didn't want to scare off a potential customer.  I find that practice rather underhanded.

 

Really?  Bangkok Hospital IS a private hospital. Just three days ago I was NOT permitted to see the Audiologist without having a pre-exam by an ENT doctor FIRST, then the ENT doctor would prescribe the Audiolgy test.  I specifically stated that I did NOT want an ENT to examine me as I was NOT there for any medical 'problem.'  No deal. Either see the doctor first, or no Audiology test.

The audiologist used by RAM has her own clinic on the 107, a couple of blocks from the moat, right hand side heading south, not expensive at all.

[nigelforbes]

Every x-ray comes with a radiology report, what did that say?

[FolkGuitar]

15 hours ago, nigelforbes said:

The audiologist used by RAM has her own clinic on the 107, a couple of blocks from the moat, right hand side heading south, not expensive at all.

Thanks!  I've found that most hearing aid clinics only charge 400-500 Baht for an audiogram. Oddly enough, every audiogram that I've had in hearing aid clinics include a 'Signal-to-Noise Loss Ratio' test, which measure one's ability to hear spoken words clearly in various levels of background noise. This is a VERY important test when adjusting hearing aids for a user.  This test was not done by Bangkok Hospital. Not as thorough an audiogram, as it turns out, that I actually needed. Fortunately, I had the results from the one done in a hearing aid clinic that I was able to send to my company.

 

Edited October 1, 2022 by FolkGuitar