Saving While In Thailand

[siamamerican]

Are there any ex pats that came to Thailand with little money and are saving enough to retire comfortably. I was debating doing this 6 years ago, but decided to go back to the US. I'm glad I did, but was wondering how others that decided to work and save in Thailand are doing.

[bendix]

I've been here two years and eight months. In that time I guess i've saved around 5 million, maybe a bit more. I try to send 140-150,000 a month back to NZ or Australia. Sometimes more, sometimes less.

I won't do that for much longer. Pending lifestyle changes and property / car purchases will impact that, but even I'm a compulsive saver. I am paring back to working only 3 days a week soon, but already I'm getting approached for freelance assignments in my spare time, so who knows.

Will wait and see . . . . . If my situation changed significantly and I was no longer accumulating, it would be pretty easy to head to somewhere like HK, Australia or the UK to pick up a 'big job' again.

[GuestHouse]

The only assured way of making a living in Thailand is if you get a job with an international company paying international rates (and if you are lucky, overseas up lifts etc).

The idea of starting a business as means of attaining pension savings is by definition taking an extremely high risk to meet a savings target that you absolutely cannot afford to fail to hit.

Independent expats in Thailand making enough money to save for retirement.... well there are a few, but I believe very very few who are actually managing to do that.

[chanchao]

The issue with that though is that it's about the job first: If you happen to be required in Thailand then they send you to Thaialnd, but at any time it may be necessary for you to go elsewhere, or you're just not needed in their Thai operation anymore.

So while the best scenario is being an expat for a big Western company, that's very nice if you already work for such a company and you happen to get sent out for as long as you wish, but realistically it's not very feasible for people just wanting to work/live in Thailand.

[adrianbalaba]

HI, all. How are you. I am new.

Adrian

[bendix]

new at what?

[chinthee]

I agree with Guesthouse. If you don't already have a business that allows you to stay in Thailand forget it.

As far as getting jobs, Singapore or Hong Kong are the usual places in the SE region where international-scale salaries are. If you live there, you can easily and cheaply travel to Thailand on weekends, etc..

And, there are some regional positions at international scale that would allow you to choose anyplace in Asia to live that's close to where you travel. I think doing that is fine, but others on this forum will warn you you need a work permit.

However, unless you have a skill that's highly in demand, it's very hard to come cold from the US and get a position in HK/Singapore unless you have Asian experience that's relevant/languages, etc.. The upside is that if you do land a good paying job in Thailand, yes, you can save a lot if you're smart because the cost of living is less.

I've argued before on this forum that Thai firms generally do not hire foreigners at international scale. There are exceptions. I've run pan-Asian operations for a few companies for years and though I'm not a recruiter I know many of them and have retained them over the years and discussed this issue.

Maybe there is actually someone in HR or a recruiter on this forum who can answer this more precisely.

[Begbie]

For a fast track to savings go to Pattaya and start a small bar. They make heaps,especially in low season. You can see them walking around all chirpy and confident.

Another way is to become an English teacher and earn a wopping 25,000 baht a month, surely you can save a lot earning that type od dough. (even though it's less than you'd get at home on welfare)

[bendix]

I think a corollary to this is that there are a few international firms who are now starting to look increasingly at Bangkok as a centre of the Asia operations. We are constantly being asked to do due diligence on this issue. Despite the issues here, Thailand is seen as having a pretty decent infrastructure and is obviously much cheaper than places like Singapore, HK and Shanghai.

[jdinasia]

For a fast track to savings go to Pattaya and start a small bar. They make heaps,especially in low season. You can see them walking around all chirpy and confident.

Another way is to become an English teacher and earn a wopping 25,000 baht a month, surely you can save a lot earning that type od dough. (even though it's less than you'd get at home on welfare)

And when those don't work ... High Tail it to Cambodia!

[chinthee]

For a fast track to savings go to Pattaya and start a small bar. They make heaps,especially in low season. You can see them walking around all chirpy and confident.

Another way is to become an English teacher and earn a wopping 25,000 baht a month, surely you can save a lot earning that type od dough. (even though it's less than you'd get at home on welfare)

And when those don't work ... High Tail it to Cambodia!

But, before you leave, you should try your hand at redesigning all the trolleys in this country. Scourge of the planet they are. You could make a mint.

[glaitong]

Managed to save and also make investments. It can be done. Change in lifestle and stay at home instead of party, party , party outside!

[chinthee]

I think a corollary to this is that there are a few international firms who are now starting to look increasingly at Bangkok as a centre of the Asia operations. We are constantly being asked to do due diligence on this issue. Despite the issues here, Thailand is seen as having a pretty decent infrastructure and is obviously much cheaper than places like Singapore, HK and Shanghai.

Bendix, this surprises me, but I will admit I've been out of pan-regional operations for a few years. The problem with Thailand was always language. Manila usually won on that score, and now with India's emergence that has changed. The fight was always HK vs. SG and SG seems to have won that now, with the exception of the China-central and N. Asia bases. I admit that now SG is pricing itself out with rising rentals, etc..

Just curious, if possible without revealing client confidences, what kind of advice have you given after your due dilligence?

[GuestHouse]

I have no idea how many International Companies are moving into Thailand these days, but I do know of three companies, that are perhaps the largest employers of western expats in Thailand, that are reducing expat deals and rotating expats out with Thais.

Hence my comments about the need to be lucky to get an expat deal in Thailand these days. And hence, I believe, Chan's comments about being rotated out of Thailand as being the downside of working for an international.

It's still true that Thailand is for the vast majority of people a place to spend money not a place to earn it.

[dave111223]

I think it depends a lot on the person. The same people who are unable to save any money in Thailand are probably the same people that would not be able to save much money back home.

It is more difficult save the save amount of money here, but you've got remember the cost of living is a lot less, salaries are less, and thus savings are usually less too.

But the ratio of spending to savings probably shouldn't be any less here?

[bendix]

I think a corollary to this is that there are a few international firms who are now starting to look increasingly at Bangkok as a centre of the Asia operations. We are constantly being asked to do due diligence on this issue. Despite the issues here, Thailand is seen as having a pretty decent infrastructure and is obviously much cheaper than places like Singapore, HK and Shanghai.

Bendix, this surprises me, but I will admit I've been out of pan-regional operations for a few years. The problem with Thailand was always language. Manila usually won on that score, and now with India's emergence that has changed. The fight was always HK vs. SG and SG seems to have won that now, with the exception of the China-central and N. Asia bases. I admit that now SG is pricing itself out with rising rentals, etc..

Just curious, if possible without revealing client confidences, what kind of advice have you given after your due dilligence?

It obviously depends on the company. We're not talking about huge Asia HQ operations - more like companies with a handful of execs supported by mid-level Thai operatives. There's been a couple of property companies involved, and odds and sods of other organisations. I'm not suggesting it's a mass migration, but it is interesting to see a few companies looking favourably here, compared to the favourites.

[samran]

A lot comes down to discipline.

I know people who came here as off the boat english teachers, and basically worked their butts off. They worked at the school during the day and did at least 3-4 hours of private tutorials every evening charging 1000 baht per hour. They all tend to live in small apartments, saving on rent, and manage to save around 70K per month which they invest back in the UK. They are very good at what they do, which comes from hard work. The families they do private tutoring for are some of the richest in Thailand. The are personable, socialble, and to a person, ain't here for the usual reasons. They just like Thailand. It has taken them at least 6 years to get to where they are.

[kopite]

new at what?

id loved to drink with you, one funny guy!

[Heng]

Was going to say the same (as Samran). It's not really the amount you make, it's controlling how much you spend.... although yes, if you already have the discipline.... you can most certainly turn that frugal knob down, often way down the more you make as you progress through life. I saved most (more than half) of my income when I was sacking groceries for minimum wage at HEB when I was 16, maybe less than half when I was tending bar in college, back up into the 80+% when I was making 30k Baht a month when I was 21 and riding the bus to and from work here in Thailand: it only took a few rides in the local bus/taxi system for me to decide that I would much prefer to be driven in my own car, and probably in the 90+% area now -at age 32- that I have everything that I have ever wanted except for ridiculously priced toys like planes, boats, cars in the 10-50 million Baht range, etc.... which I decided along the way weren't worth it.

Here's the secret......

spend less than you make, never borrow or finance anything, don't compare yourself to those who have more than you (or at least don't let it bother you).

[chinthee]

new at what?

id loved to drink with you, one funny guy!

So long as it's not koolaid. Bendix doesn't touch the stuff.

[sukanyacondo]

The only assured way of making a living in Thailand is if you get a job with an international company paying international rates (and if you are lucky, overseas up lifts etc).

The idea of starting a business as means of attaining pension savings is by definition taking an extremely high risk to meet a savings target that you absolutely cannot afford to fail to hit.

Independent expats in Thailand making enough money to save for retirement.... well there are a few, but I believe very very few who are actually managing to do that.

Id agree to a degree ha ha I mix my time with Uk work which I save all as have almost zero living expenses ie no mortgage in the Uk and the condo rental which is all sukanyas income and she saves almost all of that and often tells me to "stop spending" which I hardly do anyway!!!! beteween these two things its pretty darn good as Im still only 42. In a few years I will pack up the Uk job as have other investments in land in Eurppe which will pay out also long term. On another note we are trying to buy a fourht condo and have noticed that we paid 1.25 million per condo 12 months ago and now they are up to and selling at 1.8 million!!!! and yes they are still selling, mainly to Thais with a few farangs also. The developer is doing a good job maintenance wise and the location is superb for our customers from what they tell us.

Paul ( not listening "too much" to the doomsdayers)

[sukanyacondo]

HI, all. How are you. I am new.

Adrian

Hi "New" pleased to meet you are you of Chinese origins?? certainly an unusual name

[bendix]

new at what?

id loved to drink with you, one funny guy!

So long as it's not koolaid. Bendix doesn't touch the stuff.

Not since the time I got sick on it at Jonestown, no.

Back on topic. As someone else said, saving is relatively simple. It's all about discipline. If I earned only 25000 a month, I'd still try to save 20% and would adjust my spending accordingly.

My old dad was tighter than a camel's arse in a sandstorm. It's hereditary.

Edited June 26, 2007 by bendix

[garro]

I had planned to return to full-time employment here in LOS but I have decided to delay for a year. I return to Ireland for two months each year and make over 600,000 bath which is well over twice what I previously made here teaching. I will probably continue to do so for the foreseeable. I have found that the longer I stay here the more I am able to save as my outgoings get less each year, although I expect a bit of an increase again this year because we are having a baby.

The ability for me to save is important because I am 37 without any pension plan and I am not even entitled to a state pension back in Europe.

[Begbie]

For a fast track to savings go to Pattaya and start a small bar. They make heaps,especially in low season. You can see them walking around all chirpy and confident.

Another way is to become an English teacher and earn a wopping 25,000 baht a month, surely you can save a lot earning that type od dough. (even though it's less than you'd get at home on welfare)

And when those don't work ... High Tail it to Cambodia!

Cambodia certainly is the land of opportunity nowdays.

My investment there has more than doubled in value in 6 months, with a lot more to come in the next 2 years.

On the other hand, where is the value in Thailand? It's fully priced. Even the respective government policies are widely different when it comes to encouraging foreign investment.

I've done business in both countries over the past couple of years.There truly is no comparison.

[chinthee]

For a fast track to savings go to Pattaya and start a small bar. They make heaps,especially in low season. You can see them walking around all chirpy and confident.

Another way is to become an English teacher and earn a wopping 25,000 baht a month, surely you can save a lot earning that type od dough. (even though it's less than you'd get at home on welfare)

And when those don't work ... High Tail it to Cambodia!

Cambodia certainly is the land of opportunity nowdays.

My investment there has more than doubled in value in 6 months, with a lot more to come in the next 2 years.

On the other hand, where is the value in Thailand? It's fully priced. Even the respective government policies are widely different when it comes to encouraging foreign investment.

I've done business in both countries over the past couple of years.There truly is no comparison.

Begbie, I might agree with you. For all the cliche joke responses to loser farangs high-tailing it to Cambodia now, I've taken a few trips over the last few years and have been scratching my head wondering when and how far things will take off there. However, each time I walk away thinking "not just yet..."

[Begbie]

For a fast track to savings go to Pattaya and start a small bar. They make heaps,especially in low season. You can see them walking around all chirpy and confident.

Another way is to become an English teacher and earn a wopping 25,000 baht a month, surely you can save a lot earning that type od dough. (even though it's less than you'd get at home on welfare)

And when those don't work ... High Tail it to Cambodia!

Cambodia certainly is the land of opportunity nowdays.

My investment there has more than doubled in value in 6 months, with a lot more to come in the next 2 years.

On the other hand, where is the value in Thailand? It's fully priced. Even the respective government policies are widely different when it comes to encouraging foreign investment.

I've done business in both countries over the past couple of years.There truly is no comparison.

Begbie, I might agree with you. For all the cliche joke responses to loser farangs high-tailing it to Cambodia now, I've taken a few trips over the last few years and have been scratching my head wondering when and how far things will take off there. However, each time I walk away thinking "not just yet..."

The South Koreans certainly agree with me.

A press article about the $2 billion development that is happening in Phnom Penh:

The project is a sign of the country’s real estate boom after decades of civil war. Young people lead the residential boom as they buy new houses.

Phnom Penh (AsiaNews/Agencies) – World City, a joint venture between South Korean and Cambodian companies, has begun building a satellite city near Phnom Penh. The US$ 2 billion urban development project will be financed by South Korea's Shinhan Bank.

The South Korean bank will provide US$ 65 million to build Camko City's first thousand residential units, and infrastructure for the development, which is expected to take between 11 and 15 years to complete. The first phase is due for completion in two years and the latter phases will include a university, a hospital and schools.

The development is the latest outgrowth of Cambodia's building boom—one of the country's most visible signs of recovery after decades of civil war and destitution.

Bolstered by its newfound political stability and large injections of donor aid, Cambodia achieved GDP growth of 10.5 per cent last year. And new houses are being marketed to the growing numbers of young Cambodians.

“After the Khmer Rouge regime ended [in 1979], there were more children than average. Now they are 25, 26 years old, and they have families who need homes," said Hang Chuon Naron, secretary-general of the Ministry of Economy and Finance.

Noting Phnom Penh's “limited and inadequate housing supply,” Robert Taliercio, senior Cambodia economist for the World Bank, cited the capital's need to manage its building boom without losing its character. “t would be a shame if it became just another generic-looking East Asian megalopolis,” he said.

Edited June 26, 2007 by Begbie

[jdinasia]

LOL

[chinthee]

LOL

Also agree with you more.

[Begbie]

Here's the story

Any $2 billion foreign investments planned for Thailand this year?

Edited June 26, 2007 by Begbie