Apology Because I Lost My Temper

[qwertz]

With me it's not the moon but the sun.

Which has been noticeably absent for the last 10 days here.

It's raining non - stop, storming like you wouldn't believe and everyone I meet is a little down.

I feel like lashing out at something, which is why I don't.

It's too easy and almost without consequences in cyberspace.

[MTW]

I realize this post is old now so many previous posters, probably won't read this. But I wanted to explain one thing about why I sometimes go off on a tangent about education, or money, when I am feeling especially bad as a woman, because I have never been treated some ways I have been here, which to me show a total lack of respect due to my gender.

I thought this was obvious to the others here amd maybe it is, and you still would have the same feelings about whatever I have said, but maybe it is not.

I have read every Thai culture book that is generally available and has been written in the last 20 years or so, (that is meant for farangs living here).

They all say, that Thai people are very much into status, and they judge these things on age, wealth, education, mostly. They also say that farang women are automatically given more respect just because we are farangs, and I am not sure this is true. For example, many Thai men think we screw like rabbits, any man, any time, if we are alone in a room for 5 minutes, and that is not a mark of respect in my opinion.

But since I have met the qualifications i.e., I am a farang, I have a good education, I am not poor, and as well smaller things like I dress decently, and other superficial things Thai or Asains like to base their judgements on, as well, since I don't live in BKK, I am very careful to dress conservatively, even though I dressed pretty conservatively based on my home culture before, I have made great efforts to wear necklines up to my neck, no tight clothes, no short skirts, etc.

I would say that Thai men who are rich and educated, and especially live in BKK and have lived outside of Thailand, are nice and kind, and polite and don't go out of their way to disrespect me for sure. But I have been amazed at times, when people who also have lived for years outside of Thailand, but don't have degrees just by chance, are not from BKK, and are speaking English to a group of people, where I am the only woman, and how if I give an opinion on the subject, I am looked at like they are looking through me, and told yeah, yeah, yeah, and spoken over, or something, to let me know that whatever I have to say is not appreciated and the sooner I shut up the better. Same thing with people who are younger than me, never owned a business, are going into business, asking for advise, asking me to loan them money for the business, but if I am one of the group who offers some advise, even if I wait until we are in private, I get the same yeah, yeah, whatever, just hand us the money you stupid woman, attitude.

That makes me angry for many reasons. For one, because I want to know how they think I earned all my money they want from me, if I am such an idiot, and for two, based on all I read, okay, I am older, more educated, more money, have the actual business experience they need, and so I am a woman, but I am a farang, where is this status you supposedly get here based on those things???

I don't walk around my own country thinking like this or talking to you out there like this. But this is based on all this Thai culture I have been soaking up and trying to understand. Even my statments about my boyfriend having "power" well, I don't talk like that, but Thai people do, so I thought, when talking to all of you out there who are so in tune with Thailand, you would understand where I got that from.

Basically as I understand it, when you go out with a group of Thai men, you should be seen and not heard. (My b/f is not like this btw but we go out with different groups of people he knows and I have been out with many other groups before I was with him.) In general, talking for women, is talking too much, but talking about more than very simple things, like " how much ice would you like me to put in your whiskey" and "yes, I love Thailand and Thai food" and answering questions about how much does my house cost, and how long I have lived here is about all they want to know. It basically doesn't even cross their minds to ask me what my education is, or what my job was before, probably because they don't want to know the answer in case it is better then them. Even my b/f parents never asked these questions but only asked when I was going to have a baby, over and over again. I felt like a farm animal and it made me not like them to some extent for a while. They didn't care if we were married, either, which bothered me. I personally, would not have a baby outside of marriage, and while I am not saying that people who do are wrong, I have made a decision as a woman to not make this mistake, certainly not here in Thailand. (Not that actually being married will help you, but I would think some old-fashioned, conservative parents would care about this too, as would I, as would my parents.)

They wanted to know: If I had been married before, yes. Did I have children? No. Why? And why wasn't I making some for them now??? Yes, and okay, they knew what country I came from. I am still not sure after 2 years with my b/f if they are aware of much more than that, other than my b/f's father and I sort of bonded over birds, he likes them, I have some, brought him some bird books, photos, etc. And they know some very small stupid things about me maybe like I can swim.

If education, money, and I suppose job being an indication of these things also, why would they never ask about that when I read that all Thai people ask these things in order to sum you up in terms of status? Is it because as a woman, in a way, I have no status, so none of these things matter? If you were trying to get your son to have a baby with a woman, wouldn't you want to know some of these things? Oh, they wanted to know how old I was. Breeding question.

And also, there was a certain Thai man, who lived for 20-30 years in the west, who went around telling people what my job was before I came here, a very low paying job, that requires no education, that I never did, when he could not have failed to understand the truth, and if that had been my job, I would be looking for food stamps in America, not living here year after year off money I earned before, it is just impossible, but he was a friend of my b/f, and I will leave it up to the rest of you to guess why he would do that.

I'm not saying they are bad people btw, (the parents) but just things like this shock me, especially when I read the opposite about Thai culture. I hope some of you can understand better what I was meaning when I talked about these things, and won't just send me some more stupid attacks because I am really worn out.

[MTW]

I was rather incensed that you had the affront to ask Larvid to save you from your boyfriend, MTW. Based on Larvid's posts, he is a true gentleman; your request is a travesty of forum friendship, IMO. After the mafia/gun scenario, I doubt anyone will be offering to rescue you unless his name is Rambo.

Quite strange that you have regaled us with the wonders of your b/f who pays the Bt35,000 rent (you mean he took the envelope with the money over?) and that your mafia and educational connections are good.??

Your typos are bearable, but I thought that you said you were a lawyer before? Don't know any lawyers that say "better than me" or "some people do the same as me". Forgive me, some people speak better English than I do.

Anyway, wish you well in sorting out your dramas. I do expect that extracting yourself from the clutches of your bf will not be easy, especially as I surmise that he knows where your new home is. I've heard that Bali is nice.

Jet, sorry, I have gotten lazy with my English because I am always speaking "baby" English or some incorrect version because it is more understood by the Thai people I am always talking to. And since I am not writing a business letter, or legal brief, I and am writing late at night, I am not checking what I write before I send it. But thank you so much for putting up with my typos, as I was wondering what you thought about those.

The request to "help me with my b/f" was joke. Since so many people here want to tell me why I am doing things the wrong way, I thought maybe asking them to help me, and then seeing what the response was, might help to lighten up the mood of TV re me, and also to show everyone, that many are there to be critical, but not there to help. People will say whatever about how I go about doing what I need to do, but when I ask them to step in for me???? Nobody home.

This is quite like the situation where you keep calling me a liar, and when I offered you proof, you sat on your ass, and did nothing, other than keep writing me remarks that make you look so smart and wise and me look like a liar and an idiot.

And again here, you did the same thing. I believe if this were not an anonymous or at least semi-anonymous forum (since I have given out enough info for many people to be able to identify me) that I could sue you for certain things you persist on writing about me, at least in certain areas of the world.

I have offered you proof, I have written to you privately, no response. What more can I do? I don't go around looking for what you post and then attack that or you do I? Do you really think this is a flattering mode to take? If so, more power to you! But I will not take much more of it so please watch what you say.

[canadiangirl]

I would say that Thai men who are rich and educated, and especially live in BKK and have lived outside of Thailand, are nice and kind, and polite and don't go out of their way to disrespect me for sure. But I have been amazed at times, when people who also have lived for years outside of Thailand, but don't have degrees just by chance, are not from BKK, and are speaking English to a group of people, where I am the only woman, and how if I give an opinion on the subject, I am looked at like they are looking through me, and told yeah, yeah, yeah, and spoken over, or something, to let me know that whatever I have to say is not appreciated and the sooner I shut up the better. Same thing with people who are younger than me, never owned a business, are going into business, asking for advise, asking me to loan them money for the business, but if I am one of the group who offers some advise, even if I wait until we are in private, I get the same yeah, yeah, whatever, just hand us the money you stupid woman, attitude.

Hi MTW,

well I hope you don't lend them any money after they talk to you like that!

I think you rarely respond to my posts and I don't know why, but I find that you bring up interesting topics, so I'll throw in my 2 cents anyways.

My general feeling is that Thai society is still pretty sexist ("women are the back legs of the elephant, etc, etc). The one Thai woman I've met who is very independant and outspoken and opiniated (as opposed to the smiling, demure stereotype) came from a very wealthy background. I guess through history, the women who have been most liberated in sexist societies have been the from the ruling class. So perhaps that might be why you find well-educated and wealthy Thais to be more respectful and responsive?

[MTW]

Hi Canadiangirl,

I haven't not been responding to your posts, although maybe it seems that way. I found what you wrote to be very smart. I have been reading about you on other topics or posts that you have made, and while some I just didn't really have much advise (my advise would have been NOT to send you b/f family a gift as they will see this as a gift from the enemy, see it as a way to seem higher than them with money, and the mother will put it in the trash, but I thought if I wrote that I would just get a ridiculous amount of negative posts and sometimes I just can't handle anymore) ... but you can see I know who you are??

I also read your post about moving to Thailand as a young single woman, and the advise I read, was not realistic in my opinion, although I didn't read it all. I am often too honest for my good, and for sure too blunt for other people to accept what I say. But sometimes I get tired of fighting off the posters here who can't even accept that I might know a good book store, or a restaurant ... hey this sounds just like my problem with Thai men who won't listen to women here!

I think I could give you more realistic advise, maybe on a PM. Basically you only have a limited time to be young, educated, have some free time, I wouldn't waste too much of it in Thailand as you probably won't meet the best person you could, as a life partner, in your own country or any other farang country. You might meet a nice guy, but not the best person for all you have to offer in the world, and you will have to give up a lot. If you were 40 or 50, well okay, but in your 20s????? I know you have a Thai man now. Okay, in your country, but here is a whole different world and even the man you have now, if you were to come here with him, he might start acting differently due to pressure to act like a "Thai Man" which even when my Thai man, acts like a Thai man, the farang men here, have a lot of negative things to say about him, because that is not the way we deal with things in the west.

[LaReina]

Jet: That whole conversation about being rescued actually sounded like a joke. A wise arsed joke, but a joke none-the-less

MTW: Wow.. take a load off girlfriend. You are taking life just toooooooooooooooooooo seriously. If most people looked at life the way you do they would be dead from stress. Take a deep breath and breathe in and breathe out! Seriously!

You are definitely stressed and it is manifesting itself in weird ways. Can’t sleep at night.. Exercise for a good two solid hours. That should knock you into slumberland. If that is not working then you need to change your environment as where you are is not helping.

Look around and learn to ignore. If people who you feel are beneath you in terms of experience and education are treating you poorly then what the heck are you doing hanging around them? I am educated, very well educated if I might say, had a very nice job prior to moving here, lunched with CEO's and other people that I had to look up to. But do you think anyone here gives a rats assssssss? Let alone some construction worker? DO you think a construction worker back home could careless or would treat me with respect? heck no.

So try and hang out with people that are more like you Just because you live here does not mean you have to talk to and be accepted by everyone.

As for men ignoring your opinions (not quite sure exactly how you phrased it). Welcome to reality. For most men, the sound of a woman's voice unless he thinks he is getting some action is nothing more than noise. As should be the sound of men and their egotistical trip (which they have at times) should be to you too. If no-one wants to listen to your opinions then

a) why offer

why hang out with them?

You set yourself up 50% for all the abuse that you feel you are receiving. I am sorry to say.

Why do you work yourself up from things that strangers say to you online? (I am not trying to get you riled up by the way).

It is not like your father is online and belittling you and all you have ever wanted was his acceptance. Sweetie, these are strangers!

yesterday, today and tomorrow STRANGERS!

But on another note. I can see why the rent comments are flying your way. Sweetie.. nice moobans, in guarded areas in Bangkok with nice yards and houses fully furnished can run 35,000. A house, on the street, that's bloody noisy, no matter what you say it looks like, just defies all logic in Thailand to be worth the amount you stated. I thought so the first time I read your dog barking thread.. and apparently I was not alone. Then to top it off, the fact that your bf is Thai, and is paying THAT MUCH! makes people question it even more. If you were both tow farangs, then yes.. but not with the Thai factor. Houses that are near the BTS and not in a mooban but just a soi (if you look hard enough and have a Thai friend help you call) run about 14,000 / month

And to all the wise people on TV.. I am american. My spelling sucks, and so does my grammar and I don't care.

[MTW]

Hi LaReina, I know you are a kind thoughtful person. Why am I hanging around people who treat me like crap? I am not any longer. What am I doing now? On TV, watching UBC, not going out very much. Is that worse, no, not really.

The situation is that if I was not in CM, or not in Thailand, or not in Asia, I wouldn't have to feel this problem. If I want to go out, oh, nobody has any money except me, then I cannot talk because I am a woman, even with some Thai girls and ALL Thai people, whenever I say something that doesn't 100% go with their point of view, well I am just the "crazy farang" and no person should listen to me!

Well, that can be cute, 5 times, 10 times, 20 times, but it stops to be cute after 2 years of nobody paying but you, and nobody wanting to take anything you say as an educated comment.

Everyone still saying "you are the crazy farang" every time you want to talk, and the fact that 95% of the time you can't talk because of the language differences, cultural differences whatever.

They don't seem to think we are so crazy and stupid when the bill comes do they? But God forbid, DON'T TALK DURING THEIR FUN, or you will ruin their free meal and drinking.

Some Thai people don't seem to give it a second's thought that maybe we had to be smart to earn enough money to retire here at 35. In my idea, they think when we are born there is a bag of money to support us latter, and not matter what choices we make in life, we will be rich. Same as they need to gamble, buy lottery tickets as their only way to get rich, and they need to drink large bottles of whiskey every night for I don't know what reason.

[eek]

MTW, if you are feeling unhappy with your situation, have you considered moving out of the area you are in? Moving to an area where there are more like-minded people, or somewhere you can make a western female buddy to talk to and feel a bit more validated. It sounds like you are going a bit stir crazy due to not being able to express yourself in real life amongst the people where your live. Maybe a move to an area where there is more of a mix of other cultures may help..?

I have to mention it also sounds like you do not like living in Thailand very much (or at least comes across that way recently), or maybe its just that you are not enjoying the area that you live in. But, if you are not happy here, you are still a young woman, why not try elsewhere? I gather you are financially independent and have savings and/or private income, so have the ability to up sticks and move on.

Would possibly be good for your mind and spirit to take a trip even, explore some more of the country, neighboring coutries, or a visit to your home country. Meeting with others, old friends or family may be the breath of fresh air you need and help you put things into perspective. Being away from a stressful situation can help you work out if you want to remain there and what steps to take to change the situation.

[chinthee]

I've been thinking about MTW's situation, and what I think she really needs is an American women's support group. I'm not sure if there's one in Thailand, but in Hong Kong, they have a very close knit group there. Some people just don't make good expats. That is not an insult, just a fact. And, some Americans need someone from their own culture to get them through their foreign living experience.

MTW, is there an American women's group in Thailand?

[MTW]

Chintee- You are so right!! I don't think I am really a bad expat, I have lived several places in my life, although I will say, that they differ a lot, based on gender, and certain other expectations when you grow up in a liberal city like LA. But there doesn't seem to be much for women in CM. I though when I moved here I was being smart not to move to Koh Samui or somewhere really isolated, but I am not sure how "less" isolated I really am here

But you know, it is still hard, how many farang women live here long term? 30 or 40 and then you have a mix of all cultures from every country in the world, different age groups, different types, many women here are what some would call "new age" and I am not like those people at all, or you meet someone and they are only here for 6 months or 3 months, something like that.

[sbk]

Well, I think this thread has just about run its course. Some posters have managed to be helpful, some mean. I don't see any need in continuing this thread unless it is for some people's own cynical amusement.

****CLOSED****