4 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Your other claim that pandemics cannot be stopped is also wrong. 

No, it's perfectly true, and even the UN Biodiversity Panel has realized it.

 

"There is no great mystery about the cause of the Covid-19 pandemic -- or any modern pandemic," said Peter Daszak, president of the Ecohealth Alliance. "The same human activities that drive climate change and biodiversity loss also drive pandemic risk though their impacts on our agriculture."

 

https://www.france24.com/en/environment/20201030-future-pandemics-likely-to-be-deadlier-and-more-frequent-warns-un-panel

 

 

1 minute ago, ozimoron said:

Who in their right mind would claim that vaccines don't work?

Who indeed?

 

Vaccines, along with antibiotics and safe surgery, are three of the modern medical miracles.

Edited January 1, 20233 yr by Eleftheros
Clarification

7 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

she was sick but did not tell anyone. She is also a covid denier and Anti vaxxer

My sister's bf did the same to my sister. She is just recovering. 

Some people are really unbelievable

3 minutes ago, Eleftheros said:

No, it's perfectly true, and even the UN Biodiversity Panel has realized it.

 

"There is no great mystery about the cause of the Covid-19 pandemic -- or any modern pandemic," said Peter Daszak, president of the Ecohealth Alliance. "The same human activities that drive climate change and biodiversity loss also drive pandemic risk though their impacts on our agriculture."

 

https://www.france24.com/en/environment/20201030-future-pandemics-likely-to-be-deadlier-and-more-frequent-warns-un-panel

 

 

Which pandemic in history was not stopped?

Just now, Eleftheros said:

No, it's perfectly true, and even the UN Biodiversity Panel has realized it.

 

"There is no great mystery about the cause of the Covid-19 pandemic -- or any modern pandemic," said Peter Daszak, president of the Ecohealth Alliance. "The same human activities that drive climate change and biodiversity loss also drive pandemic risk though their impacts on our agriculture."

 

https://www.france24.com/en/environment/20201030-future-pandemics-likely-to-be-deadlier-and-more-frequent-warns-un-panel

 

 

Again you edited and cut my post out of context, I provided real evidence there with facts that they can and do.

 

SARS: how a global epidemic was stopped

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2636331/

 

EPIDEMICS THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN

These stories show that if we invest in global preparedness, epidemics don’t have to happen.

https://preventepidemics.org/epidemics-that-didnt-happen/

 

Five ways to prepare for the next pandemic

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-022-03362-8

 

Did you read your own link by the way: They are not saying they cannot be stopped, they are saying it needs resources:

The experts said that the cost of preventing future pandemics was likely to be 100 times cheaper than responding to them, "providing strong economic incentives for transformative change".

9 minutes ago, Eleftheros said:

Peter Daszak

One of the last persons I would ask anything about the origins of covid. 

Too much involved in gain-of-function research and the unsavory collaboration of Western virologists with squeaky-clean Chinese high- security labs (Chinese are generally well-known for their cleanliness).

These things were discussed in 2020, forgotten by 2023?

4 hours ago, Eleftheros said:

And I suppose some people will still be obsessing about Covid even into the 2030s, like those Japanese soldiers who were found hiding in Pacific island jungles, unable to accept that World War 2 was over.

 

Even Christian Drosten, one of the main perpetrators of the whole Covid mess in Europe, has given up.

 

“We’re experiencing the first endemic wave with SARS-CoV-2 this winter; in my opinion the pandemic is over, After this winter, the immunity in the population will be so broad and resilient that the virus can hardly be able to break through in the summer." (Original, in German)

 

What we really need is one of those deprogramming units which have been used with members of religious cults.

You have to understand that many people are horrified that natural events like pandemics can not be totally managed and some things are simply not controllable. They can not accept that people might actually even die and will scream 'murderer' at you if you don't play by their rules.

Great decision by Thailand, it makes no sense to ask for a test since Covid is endemic in every country of the planet.

 

2 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

The experts said that the cost of preventing future pandemics was likely to be 100 times cheaper than responding to them, "providing strong economic incentives for transformative change".

Transformative change? What change is there that is non-transformative? Does 'transform' not actually mean 'change'? More buzzword bingo which should be kept within the confines of a Dilbert cartoon.

 

The evidence from Covid shows that we are not smart enough to stop a pandemic. It was known in late 2019 that a strange 'pneumonia' was circulating in China, but even as late as Jan 31 2020, the World Health Organization was still saying that "Preliminary investigations conducted by the Chinese authorities have found no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission of the novel #coronavirus (2019-nCoV) identified in #Wuhan, #China."

 

That statement sank the ship right there.

 

Humanity is simply not smart enough to prevent a particular opportunistic infection becoming a pandemic - we'll get lucky some times, but the pathogen only has to get lucky once, and we're back into a pandemic.

 

By all means prepare for a pandemic, as there is undoubtedly another one coming down the pike. But at least prepare a bit better than they did for this one, with Rule 1 being : Don't Panic.

Just now, Anton9 said:

Great decision by Thailand, it makes no sense to ask for a test since Covid is endemic in every country of the planet.

 

But every developed country on the planet is also requiring tests for Chinese arrivals.

7 minutes ago, rabang said:

You have to understand that many people are horrified that natural events like pandemics can not be totally managed and some things are simply not controllable. They can not accept that people might actually even die and will scream 'murderer' at you if you don't play by their rules.

No we accept people die, that's why there are measures to try to avoid it. Vaccines do a great job but they are not 100%

2 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

But every developed country on the planet is also requiring tests for Chinese arrivals.

Thereby demonstrating their smug anti-science stupidity.

Just now, Eleftheros said:

Transformative change? What change is there that is non-transformative? Does 'transform' not actually mean 'change'? More buzzword bingo which should be kept within the confines of a Dilbert cartoon.

 

The evidence from Covid shows that we are not smart enough to stop a pandemic. It was known in late 2019 that a strange 'pneumonia' was circulating in China, but even as late as Jan 31 2020, the World Health Organization was still saying that "Preliminary investigations conducted by the Chinese authorities have found no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission of the novel #coronavirus (2019-nCoV) identified in #Wuhan, #China."

 

That statement sank the ship right there.

 

Humanity is simply not smart enough to prevent a particular opportunistic infection becoming a pandemic - we'll get lucky some times, but the pathogen only has to get lucky once, and we're back into a pandemic.

 

By all means prepare for a pandemic, as there is undoubtedly another one coming down the pike. But at least prepare a bit better than they did for this one, with Rule 1 being : Don't Panic.

How did SARS stop? Would you like some further links?

 

"Why did the original Sars epidemic come to end? Well, SARS-CoV-1 did not burn itself out. Rather, the outbreak was largely brought under control by simple public health measures. Testing people with symptoms (fever and respiratory problems), isolating and quarantining suspected cases, and restricting travel all had an effect."

3 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

How did SARS stop? Would you like some further links?

 

"Why did the original Sars epidemic come to end? Well, SARS-CoV-1 did not burn itself out. Rather, the outbreak was largely brought under control by simple public health measures. Testing people with symptoms (fever and respiratory problems), isolating and quarantining suspected cases, and restricting travel all had an effect."

SARS and covid are quite different.

2 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

How did SARS stop? Would you like some further links?

 

"Why did the original Sars epidemic come to end? Well, SARS-CoV-1 did not burn itself out. Rather, the outbreak was largely brought under control by simple public health measures. Testing people with symptoms (fever and respiratory problems), isolating and quarantining suspected cases, and restricting travel all had an effect."

SARS was way more deadly and less contagious than covid so in a sense it did burn itself out. The measures you mentioned helped a lot and those measures are less effective for covid because it's less deadly and more contagious. Covid would probably be gone it it hadn't mutated.

11 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

But every developed country on the planet is also requiring tests for Chinese arrivals.

Not true.

Just now, rabang said:

SARS and covid are quite different.

Both COVID-19 and SARS are caused by coronaviruses

12 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

No we accept people die, that's why there are measures to try to avoid it. Vaccines do a great job but they are not 100%

Mortality for everyone of us is eventually 100% so your non-acceptance of the fact is a bit futile.

@Bkk BrianAs I wrote, but you didn't read, we know we can stop some pathogens, by measures such as those that you mention.

 

But unless we get a whole lot smarter, we will never be able to prevent all pathogens, any one of which could turn into a pandemic, and inevitably will in the future.

 

We'll just have to hope that when the next one hits, we are not so feeble and panicky as we were this time.

Just now, ozimoron said:

SARS was way more deadly and less contagious than covid so in a sense it did burn itself out. The measures you mentioned helped a lot and those measures are less effective for covid because it's less deadly and more contagious. Covid would probably be gone it it hadn't mutated.

Sure that's why vaccines were also needed for Covid-19, with SARS public health measures was able to stop it.

1 minute ago, Bkk Brian said:

Both COVID-19 and SARS are caused by coronaviruses

You should read another response below mine.

Just now, Eleftheros said:

@Bkk BrianAs I wrote, but you didn't read, we know we can stop some pathogens, by measures such as those that you mention.

 

But unless we get a whole lot smarter, we will never be able to prevent all pathogens, any one of which could turn into a pandemic, and inevitably will in the future.

 

We'll just have to hope that when the next one hits, we are not so feeble and panicky as we were this time.

You clearly claimed pandemics could not be stopped. I clearly gave evidence that an epidemic can be stopped from getting to the stage of being a pandemic, you've got nothing

Just now, rabang said:

You should read another response below mine.

Why I gave you a factual reply. 

4 minutes ago, rabang said:

Not true.

I stand corrected. Many countries are, including the US, Australia, Italy, Japan, Taiwan, Malaysia, South Korea, Israel, Spain, France, UK.

 

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/12/29/countries-imposing-covid-rules-for-travellers-from-china

 

 

 

 

Just now, Bkk Brian said:

You clearly claimed pandemics could not be stopped. I clearly gave evidence that an epidemic can be stopped from getting to the stage of being a pandemic, you've got nothing

Pandemics cannot be stopped.

 

There will be another one sometime this century, guaranteed, and we just have to hope we have learned to be a bit more courageous in the face of it, rather than becoming unglued in a disastrous panic.

Just now, Eleftheros said:

Pandemics cannot be stopped.

 

There will be another one sometime this century, guaranteed, and we just have to hope we have learned to be a bit more courageous in the face of it, rather than becoming unglued in a disastrous panic.

Are you being deliberately misleading? If you stop an epidemic you've stopped the pandemic. That's like saying you can't stop a polio pandemic but we do with vaccine coverage.

 

 

5 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

I stand corrected. Many countries are, including the US, Australia, Italy, Japan, Taiwan, Malaysia, South Korea, Israel, Spain, France, UK.

 

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/12/29/countries-imposing-covid-rules-for-travellers-from-china

 

 

 

 

You can add Canada, India, Morocco and Philippines to that list.

3 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Are you being deliberately misleading? If you stop an epidemic you've stopped the pandemic. That's like saying you can't stop a polio pandemic but we do with vaccine coverage.

No, you are being deliberately misleading. There will be another pandemic this century, and nothing we can do will stop it. That is the lesson of history.

 

There were 4 or 5 pandemics in the 20th century (depending on your definition) and the emergence of Covid-19 shows that we are still nowhere near smart enough to stop the next one.

3 minutes ago, Eleftheros said:

No, you are being deliberately misleading. There will be another pandemic this century, and nothing we can do will stop it. That is the lesson of history.

 

There were 4 or 5 pandemics in the 20th century (depending on your definition) and the emergence of Covid-19 shows that we are still nowhere near smart enough to stop the next one.

The link you supplied even disproved your contiuned claim. Along with the 6 or more I have already supplied. A pandemic can be stopped, its already been proved with SARS, FACT.

 

Will all be stopped, that depends on whether countries are willing to provide the resources to prepare. 

 

 

This from WHO

SARS: how a global epidemic was stopped

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2636331/

 

 

1 hour ago, ozimoron said:

I stand corrected. Many countries are, including the US, Australia, Italy, Japan, Taiwan, Malaysia, South Korea, Israel, Spain, France, UK.

 

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/12/29/countries-imposing-covid-rules-for-travellers-from-china

 

 

 

 

https://codeblue.galencentre.org/2022/12/30/no-border-closures-or-mandatory-covid-tests-for-china-travellers/

 

KUALA LUMPUR, Dec 30 – The government has decided not to suspend the entry of visitors from China into Malaysia or to subject them to pre-departure or on-arrival Covid-19 testing.

 

 

All arrivals are only screened for fever.