25 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

Here is table 1 from the study:

https://www.nature.com/articles/s44161-022-00177-8/tables/1

 

 

post vaccination -- "a rate that is approximately five times lower than after SARS-CoV-2 infection." "

 

Also  worth keeping in mind...

 

COVID is still causing 300+ deaths per day and 3,000+ new COVID hospitalizations per day in the U.S.

 

And here in Thailand, according to the government, one COVID death per day and 17 new COVID hospitalizations per day...

 

Any COVID vaccination related hospitalizations and deaths, if any, pale in comparison.

 

Thailand:

 

"Following the weekly number of COVID-19 infected people.

Between 5th - 11th March 2023

Patients treating in hospital (weekly)

Number 122 people: Daily average. Number 17 people/day.

Deaths ( weekly )

Number of 6 people: Daily average. Number of 1 person/day.

---------------------

Total of 4,385 patients treated in the hospital (since 1 January 2566)

Total death toll 255 (since 1 January 2566)"

 

United States:

 

"New Hospital Admissions

The current 7-day daily average for February 22–28, 2023, was 3,318."

Deaths

The current 7-day average of new deaths (327) decreased 3.3% compared with the previous 7-day average (338)."

 

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/covid-data/covidview/index.html

 

People in the U.S. who have received the new bivalent vaccine have almost a 10 times lower risk of dying from COVID compared to the unvaccinated.

 

 

https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#rates-by-vaccine-status

 

Getting vaccinated is clearly your best odds for staying safe and protecting your health.

 

 

 

Edited March 16, 20233 yr by TallGuyJohninBKK

19 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

post vaccination -- "a rate that is approximately five times lower than after SARS-CoV-2 infection." "

 

Also  worth keeping in mind...

 

COVID is still causing 300+ deaths per day and 3,000+ new COVID hospitalizations per day in the U.S.

 

And here in Thailand, according to the government, one COVID death per day and 17 new COVID hospitalizations per day...

 

Any COVID vaccination related hospitalizations and deaths, if any, pale in comparison.

 

Thailand:

 

"Following the weekly number of COVID-19 infected people.

Between 5th - 11th March 2023

Patients treating in hospital (weekly)

Number 122 people: Daily average. Number 17 people/day.

Deaths ( weekly )

Number of 6 people: Daily average. Number of 1 person/day.

---------------------

Total of 4,385 patients treated in the hospital (since 1 January 2566)

Total death toll 255 (since 1 January 2566)"

 

United States:

 

"New Hospital Admissions

The current 7-day daily average for February 22–28, 2023, was 3,318."

Deaths

The current 7-day average of new deaths (327) decreased 3.3% compared with the previous 7-day average (338)."

 

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/covid-data/covidview/index.html

 

People in the U.S. who have received the new bivalent vaccine have almost a 10 times lower risk of dying from COVID compared to the unvaccinated.

 

 

https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#rates-by-vaccine-status

 

Getting vaccinated is clearly your best odds for staying safe and protecting your health.

 

 

 

Each one of us is free to make their own informed decisions.

1 hour ago, rattlesnake said:

Each one of us is free to make their own informed decisions.

I wish that were the case -- or had been the case over the past 3 years.

 

Instead, we had people like Jacinda Ardern publicly saying that:

 

"We [the government] will continue to be your single source of truth. .. Unless you hear it from us, it is not the truth."

 

It was not just empty rhetoric, as she went on to point out that her Covid policies would create a two-tier system in New Zealand where non-vaccinated citizens did not enjoy the same rights as the vaccinated.

 

In other words, you were not free to make your own informed decision, unless you wanted to be treated as a second-class citizen.

 

But then, of course, the government's line was essentially that: "If you do not agree with us, then you cannot have been properly informed." That is an arrogant and hubristic attitude which regrettably still prevails in many quarters.

13 minutes ago, Eleftheros said:

I wish that were the case -- or had been the case over the past 3 years.

 

Instead, we had people like Jacinda Ardern publicly saying that:

 

"We [the government] will continue to be your single source of truth. .. Unless you hear it from us, it is not the truth."

 

It was not just empty rhetoric, as she went on to point out that her Covid policies would create a two-tier system in New Zealand where non-vaccinated citizens did not enjoy the same rights as the vaccinated.

 

In other words, you were not free to make your own informed decision, unless you wanted to be treated as a second-class citizen.

 

But then, of course, the government's line was essentially that: "If you do not agree with us, then you cannot have been properly informed." That is an arrogant and hubristic attitude which regrettably still prevails in many quarters.

Indeed, that was the way it was in most countries, including mine (France) where just one year ago it was actually publicly debated whether those who refused the jab should be forced to, or imprisoned.

We were banned from public life and any questioning of the purported harlmessness of the jab was treated as mental illness.

 

As always, time tells. But there will be consequences for those who condoned this.

The quote from Ardern above is a cobbled together version of a much longer statement she made back in 2020 at the beginning of the pandemic... which not surprisingly has been highlighted by conservative social media.

 

See the following:

 

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/jacinda-ardern-truth/

 

Context

"Context was missing from a video of these remarks that was reshared in July 2022. One day after tweeting the video, The Daily Wire issued a second tweet to correct that the remarks were more than two years old. Further, the video that was shared on social media did not include around 27 seconds that preceded the clip, in which Ardern spoke more about not being fooled by potentially misleading information on social media in the early days of the COVID-19 pandemic."

 

 

 

Edited March 16, 20233 yr by TallGuyJohninBKK

Post making unsubstantiated claims removed

2 hours ago, Eleftheros said:

you were not free to make your own informed decision, unless you wanted to...

you are free to make your own informed decision, unless you wanted to infect me, or others

 

My sister's bf made his own informed (he watched a lot of youtube) decision not to get vaccinated.  He then made his own informed decision, not to wear a mask when talking to like-minded people.

He then made his own informed decision, not to tell anyone that he got sick with a bad sore throat.  He then made his own informed decision,  to sit in the same  subcompact car as my sister, for 2 hours, without a mask.

 

My sister,  who was in a risk group, didn't get the chance to make her own informed decision, not to travel with him. Because he kept his condition a secret.

 

You want the freedom to infect us. Fortunately, some governments didn't give you this freedom.

Edited March 16, 20233 yr by Lorry

On 3/15/2023 at 4:44 PM, rattlesnake said:

What is patently false is the following statement:

"Side effects from the COVID vaccines are rare and mostly minor".

"Side effects from the COVID vaccines are rare and mostly minor" - this is a straightforward statement of a simple fact, based on real numbers and studies  by experts and governments over the last 2 years and a half since the 1st covid vaccine came out.  Quite simple but majorly critical in making one's own decision regarding vaccination. To label such statement "patently false" is "patently" misleading. You are free to state the earth is flat, but only a mad man would say that's false when it's been proved beyond a doubt the opposite.

 

5 hours ago, rattlesnake said:

Each one of us is free to make their own informed decisions.

Yes, but as a member of society you don't have the freedom to yell "Fire!" in a crowded theater. Just one minor example.  Also one can delude oneself to one's heart content, however that delusion will become a danger to society when it steers one into a direction of becoming a danger (such as transmission of covid) to others.

Edited March 16, 20233 yr by watthong

44 minutes ago, watthong said:

Yes, but as a member of society you don't have the freedom to yell "Fire!" in a crowded theater.

That rather depends on whether the theater is actually on fire, or not, surely?

 

In fact, if you have made an informed decision that the theater is on fire, it would be criminal negligence not to warn people in the most urgent way possible.

Edited March 16, 20233 yr by Eleftheros
Clarification

1 hour ago, watthong said:

"Side effects from the COVID vaccines are rare and mostly minor" - this is a straightforward statement of a simple fact, based on real numbers and studies  by experts and governments over the last 2 years and a half since the 1st covid vaccine came out.  Quite simple but majorly critical in making one's own decision regarding vaccination. To label such statement "patently false" is "patently" misleading. You are free to state the earth is flat, but only a mad man would say that's false when it's been proved beyond a doubt the opposite.

 

Yes, but as a member of society you don't have the freedom to yell "Fire!" in a crowded theater. Just one minor example.  Also one can delude oneself to one's heart content, however that delusion will become a danger to society when it steers one into a direction of becoming a danger (such as transmission of covid) to others.

"Side effects from the COVID vaccines are rare and mostly minor" - this is a straightforward statement of a simple fact, based on real numbers and studies  by experts and governments over the last 2 years and a half since the 1st covid vaccine came out.

Have a look at the study I posted, those are real numbers, try reading it and interpreting it independently rather than parroting obsolete catchphrases.

 

"Also one can delude oneself to one's heart content, however that delusion will become a danger to society when it steers one into a direction of becoming a danger (such as transmission of covid) to others."

You do know this "vaccine" does not prevent transmission, right?

 

2 hours ago, rattlesnake said:

You do know this "vaccine" does not prevent transmission, right?

The COVID vaccines reduce the likelihood of the vaccinated person becoming infected... so they prevent infection for some, but not all.

 

The specific rate of vaccine efficiency (VE) against regular infection depends on the strain of the virus circulating, the particular vaccine(s) previously given, how many doses and how long prior, and various other factors.

 

Lately, with the new Omicron variants' increased vaccine evasion capabilities, the prevention of infection VE numbers are relatively low, unlike at the beginning of the pandemic. But the prevention of serious illness and death VE rates have remained very high, especially for those who have received vaccine booster shots as recommended.

 

From the UK Health agency's latest COVID vaccine monitoring report for March:

 

"several studies have provided evidence that vaccines provide some protection against infection. Uninfected individuals cannot transmit. Therefore, the vaccines also provide some protection against transmission. There may be an additional benefit, beyond that due to prevention of infection, if some of those individuals who become infected despite vaccination are also at a reduced risk of transmitting (for example, because of reduced duration or level of viral shedding)."

 

 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1139990/vaccine-surveillance-report-2023-week-9.pdf

 

Edited March 16, 20233 yr by TallGuyJohninBKK

1 hour ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

The COVID vaccines reduce the likelihood of the vaccinated person becoming infected... so they prevent infection for some, but not all.

 

The specific rate of vaccine efficiency (VE) against regular infection depends on the strain of the virus circulating, the particular vaccine(s) previously given, how many doses and how long prior, and various other factors.

 

Lately, with the new Omicron variants' increased vaccine evasion capabilities, the prevention of infection VE numbers are relatively low, unlike at the beginning of the pandemic. But the prevention of serious illness and death VE rates have remained very high, especially for those who have received vaccine booster shots as recommended.

 

From the UK Health agency's latest COVID vaccine monitoring report for March:

 

"several studies have provided evidence that vaccines provide some protection against infection. Uninfected individuals cannot transmit. Therefore, the vaccines also provide some protection against transmission. There may be an additional benefit, beyond that due to prevention of infection, if some of those individuals who become infected despite vaccination are also at a reduced risk of transmitting (for example, because of reduced duration or level of viral shedding)."

 

 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1139990/vaccine-surveillance-report-2023-week-9.pdf

 

In any case, I doubt this data could be used for the initial "take a hit for the team" rationale.

 

Given the results of the study I posted, which show that an individual has 21% of being diagnosed with a health problem in the 3 months following inoculation, was it reasonable to pressure everybody into vaccination? Or was it wrong?

Edited March 16, 20233 yr by rattlesnake

Further unsubstantiated claims and misinformation posts reported and removed.

On 3/10/2023 at 6:27 PM, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

It's a shame the OP article doesn't seem to clarify whether the France donated Moderna doses are the older, original version or the newer bivalent version specifically tailored against the current Omicron strains.

I'm seeing in a TH MoPH announcement from several days ago that the 1+ million Moderna COVID vaccine doses donated by France to Thailand are in fact the newer BIVALENT version aimed at the Omicron variants of COVID -- and not the now out-of-date original version.

 

The EN translation of the TH MoPH announcement reads:

 

The Ministry of Public Health receives more than 1 million doses of the “Bivalent” Moderna vaccine from the French government

 

 

https://pr.moph.go.th/?url=pr/detail/2/04/187805/

 

There isn't any English version of this MoPH announcement linked above, but Google Translate has part of it referring to the donated doses "which the Ministry of Public Health will spread throughout the country to continue to strengthen the immunity of the people."

 

Unfortunately, there aren't any specifics in the announcement of just how and where the donated bivalent Moderna doses will be used.

A separate MoPH FB post in Thai from March 14 also seems to be referencing yet another change in the location and schedule for COVID vaccinations in Bangkok... This below is the Google Translate EN version of the original TH graphic.

 

 

https://www.facebook.com/fanmoph/posts/pfbid02YNSxtD1YNNZM8Y1LSpbZr1X86Pn3W9pLqs9ZFQwUzmccdeyYjjc2qxapEenWtiYzl

 

It seems to be saying the current MoPH COVID vax location, which I assume they mean to be the Institute of Dermatology near Victory Monument, ceased its service as of March 14.

 

And then, they're talking about COVID vax services resuming after Song Kran starting April 27, every second and fourth Thursday of the month, from 1 to 4 pm, at the Phumjit Building, outpatient clinic, of the Phra Nang Klao government hospital in Nonthaburi province.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phra_Nang_Klao_Hospital

 

"Its closest rapid transit station is Phra Nang Klao Bridge MRT Station on the MRT Purple Line."

 

On 3/15/2023 at 4:21 PM, rattlesnake said:

Also worth reading is this peer-reviewed study published by a group of German pathologists, which presents autopsy findings in people who died unexpectedly within 20 days of getting injected with the mRNA technology, leaving little doubt that those were cases of vaccine-induced myocarditis:

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00392-022-02129-5

 

From that article:

 

"The reported incidence of (epi-)myocarditis after vaccination is low and the risks of hospitalization and death associated with COVID-19 are stated to be greater than the recorded risk associated with COVID-19 vaccination [29]."

 

And further from the authors: "Finally, we cannot provide a definitive functional proof or a direct causal link between vaccination and myocarditis."

 

And, the authors also posit that possible mistakes in the administration of the vaccines (giving the shots intravenously instead of intramuscularly) in their handful of studied cases may also have been the cause.

 

"Of note, it has been recently reported that intravenous injection of COVID-19 mRNA vaccine is able to induce an acute (epi-) myocarditis in a preclinical model [28]. Interestingly, we recorded inflammatory foci predominantly in the right heart, which may suggest a gradual blood-stream derived dilution effect and based on this finding it is at least tempting to speculate that inadvertent intravascular vaccine injection may be contributive."

 

Troll deflection post reported/removed

Looks like the TH MoPH Institute of Dermatology near Victory Monument is continuing to offer bivalent Pfizer booster COVID vaccine shots on a walk-in basis, 9 am to 3 pm Mon. to Sat., at least thru the end of this month/March.

 

They did a new FB post yesterday providing info about that ongoing vaccination center. Hard to tell from their TH language version whether the end of March (this Friday) is a hard end to the service there, or, whether it will continue until further notice to the contrary.

 

The bivalent Pfizer vaccine is available to Thais and foreigners alike age 12 years and above who received their last prior COVID shot at least 4 months ago, and still free if you're a long-term resident as opposed to a tourist. Foreigners should bring their passport and any documentation of their prior vaccination history.

 

It sounds like they also have available the original Pfizer vaccine version approved for youngsters age 5-11, and the non-mRNA AstraZeneca vaccine for adults.

 

https://www.facebook.com/CentralVaccinationCenter/posts/pfbid02DYu9H52eufvfnL5VpHnCxKbhsT2BrBbk9s9RGDWT7mKjTJMMaFCdGt75NWLakzZNl

 

"By extended open for service

MONDAY - SATURDAY ( SUNDAY OFF)

The whole month of March

TIME 9 AM - 3 PM

Until further notice the change

At floor 12A, Dermatology institute building

Victory Monument.

The number 456 Rd. Rajawithi, Thung Phayathai province, Ratchathewi district, Bangkok."

 

Google Maps link