Spin Off From "story Of My Thai Citizenship Application" Thread

[davidjtayler]

A sadder side of the place, Thailand supplies many mailorder brides to desparate western men; we don't necessarily want to allow free access to those men to come back, given the horrendous divorce stats, and general 'loser status' of the husbands concerned - we won't exactly get the cream of society coming here with an open door policy. There are limits to comparing developed and developing countries - hel_l even NZ has to play around with their immigration formula the whole time to get the type of people they want.

You mean Steve, that Thailand doesn't want a bunch of "conjugal tourists" marrying their first tee-rak they meet on Soi cowboy and getting Thailand PR and then citizenship?? Kinds sounds quite clever public policy to me. I guess, they are then forced to move back to the partners country.

Win-win I guess, and Piggy Muldoons comment about raising the average IQ's of both countries does comes to mind.

Now come on samran thats 3 times this phrase has been used within 6 months ... Stevero, bendix and now yourself ... is it possible to plagiarise plagiarism ...?

Anyway we need more originality so please use a new phrase next time !

[samran]

Now come on samran thats 3 times this phrase has been used within 6 months ... Stevero, bendix and now yourself ... is it possible to plagiarise plagiarism ...?

Anyway we need more originality so please use a new phrase next time !

Good point. I'll need to go to www.paulkeatingisalegend.com and download some invective from there.

[davidjtayler]

Now come on samran thats 3 times this phrase has been used within 6 months ... Stevero, bendix and now yourself ... is it possible to plagiarise plagiarism ...?

Anyway we need more originality so please use a new phrase next time !

Good point. I'll need to go to www.paulkeatingisalegend.com and download some invective from there.

Naaah ... www.chubbybrown.biz will suffice for here !

[steveromagnino]

Now come on samran thats 3 times this phrase has been used within 6 months ... Stevero, bendix and now yourself ... is it possible to plagiarise plagiarism ...?

Anyway we need more originality so please use a new phrase next time !

Good point. I'll need to go to www.paulkeatingisalegend.com and download some invective from there.

Naaah ... www.chubbybrown.biz will suffice for here !

www.helenclarkfamousquotes.org

Oh yes, what a pity they don't have any content for that one just yet.

www.smartaustraliansandtheirquotes.com.au

Oh dear, location not found, assumed missing in action.

I think a little Italian might be in order

'you come to me, on this Thaivisa, on this, the day of our beer meeting'

[BAF]

Right. Move to Thailand, get a job, pay tax, apply. I did it, and now I am a Thai citizen, and it's not all that hard. You don't even have to be married, actually, like you do in Italy.

Sitting on one's butt in Italy bleating about injustices won't get our complaining friend anywhere, I'm sorry to say. He needs to make some tough life choices that may include actually going to live and work in Thailand if he wants any kind of legal status there.

I see you're still posting your OT and personal stuff here... And this thread has been let become an OT mess and a discussion on the poster instead of the post. Quite a difference from the treatment I got replying to you on your thread and the moderating there.

How do you say "double standard" in Thai?

Edited July 10, 2007 by BAF

[steveromagnino]

How do you say "double standard" in Thai?

sorng madtatahn

Surprised you haven't learned that, being that Thai language and people are so simple.

I think was in response to all your suggestions that all farangs should gang together due to the injustice; and thus the personal relevance of an exception to your statement is far from irrelevant.

Up to you whether 'the exception proves the rule' or whether you consider changing your mind. Let me guess which one you will do......

gop nai galah jing jing

[BAF]

How do you say "double standard" in Thai?

sorng madtatahn

Surprised you haven't learned that, being that Thai language and people are so simple.

Several posts (dbrenn's and samran's) in the dbrenn's thread have just "mysteriously disappeared"...

Can you translate this into Thai as well?

Edited July 10, 2007 by BAF

[Heng]

"juju hai pai yung nar song sai."

Bad juju this place has!

[meemiathai]

tell me, as a non-EU citizen, how can I move to Italy?

Getting this informations shouldn't be that difficult, there are 2,800,000 legal migrants in Italy alone who have easily found out without having the resources and the means you surely must have...

Anyway:

Tourism? Buy an airticket.

Work/business? Meet the requirements like in the rest of the world (Thailand included) and apply for your permit of stay. Requirements are easier than in Thailand, laws are clearer and fairer, enforcement is much more consistent. Stay in the EU for 5 years (it may vary from state to state) and get your PR (no lotteries and no 100 PRs per year per nationality here). Stay a little further (7 years in Italy included the first 5 years for the PR, you can even go for the citizenship without having attained PR first) and get one of the EU citizenships. No flaming hoops to jump through, in Italy it costs a "whopping" total of 400 Euro (17,000 Baht) and entails, on average, a 1.5 years wait.

Married to an EU citizen? Forget all of the requirements above and ask for a permit of stay on the basis of being a spouse of an EU national. 6 months later (it may vary from state to state) apply for citizenship.

But who wants to go to live in Italy? I don't.

[samran]

How do you say "double standard" in Thai?

sorng madtatahn

Surprised you haven't learned that, being that Thai language and people are so simple.

Several posts (dbrenn's and samran's) in the dbrenn's thread have just "mysteriously disappeared"...

Can you translate this into Thai as well?

khor kwarm hai bai nai euuy?

Jing jing laew, mai dai hai bai nai. Mai me krai ma delete arai leuy. Songsai K.Bap lerm mee banhar gap sai dar.

[BAF]

Jing jing laew, mai dai hai bai nai. Mai me krai ma delete arai leuy.

Someone had.

The posts have now miraculously reappeared but I have copies (pre- and post-) to back this up.

Anyone interested can PM me.

[meemiathai]

Jing jing laew, mai dai hai bai nai. Mai me krai ma delete arai leuy.

Someone had.

The posts have now miraculously reappeared but I have copies (pre- and post-) to back this up.

Anyone interested can PM me.

Yes, it has happened to me before as well. Some posts disappear and reappears later.

[steveromagnino]

Jing jing laew, mai dai hai bai nai. Mai me krai ma delete arai leuy.

Someone had.

The posts have now miraculously reappeared but I have copies (pre- and post-) to back this up.

Anyone interested can PM me.

Mee pee nai com ler Khun BAP?

Prataet mai pattana, proa wah mee post hai bpai. Pom toht nah liam lae ai-Newin. Ai kwai nun kao mee walah wahng gor yur tee ja yoong gup cheewit BAP. Nah song sahn tee soot

Newin ork bpai!!!!!

[Heng]

How do you say "double standard" in Thai?

sorng madtatahn

Surprised you haven't learned that, being that Thai language and people are so simple.

Several posts (dbrenn's and samran's) in the dbrenn's thread have just "mysteriously disappeared"...

Can you translate this into Thai as well?

khor kwarm hai bai nai euuy?

Jing jing laew, mai dai hai bai nai. Mai me krai ma delete arai leuy. Songsai K.Bap lerm mee banhar gap sai dar.

Songsai K. Bap lerm mee? Or songsai K. Bap mee lerm? The later does have decreased visual acuity as a symptom and may require antivirals.

[BAF]

I take it this thread is no longer moderated.

We have started with the menace of closing the thread down because we were listing too many negative aspects of Thailand and we have now ended with a free flow of OT and ad personam (me) posts all the while (on another thread) I got a warning from samran for having used the term "drivel" talking about mdeland's (another "prominent" Thai apologist) repetitive posts where he got replies to his posts addressing his arguments and he failed to follow on on them only to repeat the same unchanged arguments later on...

Is this a technique you are taught somewhere? Because you all sure are using it here.

Many guys here have got replies and answers to their many questions/arguments but haven't bothered to follow on on them and just kept repeating the very same arguments/points over and over without addressing my counterarguments which invalided/disproved/explained them.

Examples in my following replies...

[BAF]

Right. Move to Thailand, get a job, pay tax, apply.

How many times have I to repeat that I already have properties, money and a monthly income and do not want to work in general and in 3rd world environments in particular?

You don't even have to be married, actually, like you do in Italy.

How many times have I to repeat that you don't have to be married in Italy, you can do your "move to Italy, get a job, pay tax, apply" thing OR IF you're married, just apply.

Sitting on one's butt in Italy bleating about injustices won't get our complaining friend anywhere, I'm sorry to say.

I already knew what I am asked to do to try to get PR in Thailand (it's you -well, you too- who tried to fool readers into believing someone could get PR without having to work in Thailand, it seems you have now dropped it...).

I am asking you experts why should I be forced to work in order to be allowed to live with my wife in her homecountry when I ALREADY have properties, money and a monthly income which put me amongst the wealthy?

A simple enough question it would seem to me, yet no one of you seems able to answer it.

All you do is repeating "come to slave here" or "there are alternatives" (without of course mentioning them).

He needs to make some tough life choices that may include actually going to live and work in Thailand if he wants any kind of legal status there.

I think I am still going to happily leaving you your "tough choices" life in LOS, thank you very much for nothing.

I have enjoyed for years a very fun and "easy choices" hedonistic lifestyle in LOS as long as I managed to stay single.

Once I got married and the time for long term plans came, it's been bye bye Thailand.

Not because I didn't want to stay, because Thailand didn't want us.

Edited July 11, 2007 by BAF

[BAF]

problem is Heng, BAF likes to have things his way. He isn't a businessman nor does he understand economics by the sounds of these things.

And yet who is the one who, at 30, doesn't need to work to make a living..?

Remember, he comes from a state where things are subsidised and many government services, are handed to you on a platter, for free. Its nice for first world countries to afford this, but for countries like Thailand, it is a little bit harder.

I am not asking for any social welfare kind of service/benefit/help from Thailand, not even the very small ones Thailand hands out to its citizens.

I pay my own way and please quote whatever I wrote which may have made you think otherwise.

You see, the problem with people like BAF, is they moan that Thailand won't let them in. But even if they could waltz in here and the visa laws were to their liking, I'm afraid a graduate a political science degree and is training to become a nurse would be lucky to earn, well, 15,000 baht per month. So he'll then be complaining that salaries in Thailand should reflect those in the rest of the world.

How many times have I to repeat that I already have properties, money and a monthly income and do not want to work in general and in 3rd world environments in particular?

(But oh, I forgot, BAF has a million euro of land in his portfolio with an income of 2000 euro per month!!! You'd figure, he'd be able to afford a half decent immigration lawyer himself with that money.)

Since you keep thinking you know better than my half decent immigration lawyers why haven't you answered the following?

I have long detailed my situation.

I'm still waiting for some of you Illuminati to show me how I can fully legally move to Thailand on a the long term basis needed to build one's own family's future.

My half decent immigration lawyers tell me the ONE applicable answer is working (slaving) here and that "long term basis" translates in "1 (ONE) year extensions"...

15K is hardly the stuff to build futures on. But, then I guess that is why the government has a 40K per month/per family rule for foreingers to live here with their wives, to ensure that people who are here are able to support themselves.

I don't know what that 15k is (your salary?) but I thought around Euro 300,000 (Baht 13,800,000) in the bank plus Euro 1,000,000 (Baht 46,000,000) in properties plus Euro 2,000/3,000 (Baht 92,000/138,000) in monthly rental/investment incomes should be enough to survive in a country where the average wage is around 7,000/8,000 Baht per month. Of course, I am no businessman nor do I understand economics...

The thing people like BAF tend to forget, is that we really live in a borderless world these days. But to survive anywhere, you need the skills that the market demands. Someone like him, even if all the visa rules were in his favour, wouldn't be able to make a living in Thailand. Doesn't speak the language

The same crystal ball you're using tells me you can't speak English but your Martian is quite good and your Venusian is passable (must work on the grammar though)...

and doesn't have the right skill set. He also doesn't appear to have the right disposition to live in Thailand, or at least, to be succesful here. He also has a neo-colonial attitiude of Thais as backwards inbred so-and-so's whos rules and regulations are not up to scratch for a civilsed European that he thinks he is. Pretty insulting to say the least.

Immigration-wise, I am saying they don't care about splitting families (they are not even granting any more 1 year extensions to foreign single parents supporting a Thai/half-Thai child!) and discriminate against foreign males (women married to Thai Men have it easier).

Is any of this not true?

I suggest BAF look at the experiences of one of our members - Rainman, a swiss guy who earns all his income offshore and yet manages quite well here. He hasn't found the situation staightfoward, but moving to a new country never is easy adminstratively (I've moved to the UK as an Australian), and not straightforward as BAF likes to beleive!!.

Never said it's straightforward to move to a Western country, I have said that is more straightforward (or much less comlicated if you prefer): "laws are clearer and fairer, enforcement is much more consistent".

And, in case you are married or supporting a Westerner (and in some other cases too), it's infinitely more straightforward.

Edited July 11, 2007 by BAF

[BAF]

You mean Steve, that Thailand doesn't want a bunch of "conjugal tourists" marrying their first tee-rak they meet on Soi cowboy and getting Thailand PR and then citizenship?? Kinds sounds quite clever public policy to me. I guess, they are then forced to move back to the partners country.

Win-win I guess, and Piggy Muldoons comment about raising the average IQ's of both countries does comes to mind.

Doesn't Thailand exempt foreign women married to their Thai men tee-rak they met on a beach bar somewhere from PR requirements making it much easier for them to get citizenship?

"Win-win I guess, and Piggy Muldoons comment about raising the average IQ's of both countries does comes to mind."

Discriminations ain't pretty were they're aimed at you, are they..?

[BAF]

you state about getting into Italy:

It was about the whole of the EU and there are very similar situations in all of the other Western countries.

- first one the same except of course, for longer stays you need to apply, kind of like how my family have to apply to go to Italy :-)

BS of course, as I have already said several times (replying without reading the posts you are replying to is trolling. If you don't understand what you read you are excused though...): to the countries Thailand gives free 30 days permits of stay on arrival Italy/the EU give free 90 days permits of stay on arrival.

And applying for longer stays in Thailand (Tourist Visas) doesn't even get you to those 90 days (besides costing you money and time)...

- second one much the same; there are requirements here, different to in Italy and definitely more restrictive, but in essence same concept; stay 3 years working and pay tax, apply for PR and (AFAIK) get it so long as you have been paying a decent amount of tax on income usually not less than 120,000b a month and have 3 years of continouus work permits/visa extensions;

Where do you see similarities?? In Italy/the EU you are not required to earn 15-18 times the average Italian wages, the requirement is to be above the poverty line and it's a little MORE, not LESS like in Thailand, if you have family.

Moreover, once you get your PR after your first 3 years in thailand () do Thailand allow PRs (and citizenship later on) for all of the foreign components of your family you may have with you (for example, children from a previous marriage)?

the lottery is a smoke screen; if you can tell me that there are 100 Italians applying so you cannot...

The 100 PRs per nationality limit as opposed to the 2,800,000 legal migrants today in Italy (a country of roughly the same size as Thailand) should make you realize Thailand's racist and xenophobic stance towards immigration but that seems out of your reach, never mind.

Since you have a Thai wife, I presume you can read and write Thai since it is a very simple language, far less difficult than the complex and beautiful language of Italian

It was the other way around, I have the Thai wife I have BECAUSE I could speak good proper Thai to a good level (I also speak Thailand's major dialect to a decent level).

I can't read and write Thai and while spoken Thai IS a very simple language (once you get a grasp on the tones) written Thai is a crazy nightmare learning which was, for me, not worth the effort nor the time (the exact opposite of spoken Thai, worth every last second I spent learning and improving it).

I have countless times witnessed group efforts of uni students brainstorming to properly write a joint written work in proper Thai or spending indecent amount of time to write simple things down in Thai (with no formal requirements) which would have taken an English or an Italian a twentieth or less of the time...

Thailand is only interested in people working,

So how come non-working pensioners have the easiest time of all..?

so no coming in with a massive wad of cash these days and buying a big house.

??

Ah... got it! You mean buy some Thai a big house.

After another 2 years, you can in theory apply for citizenship, not that easy, and probably all up 7 years is a more likely time frame than 5. I know plenty of western men who have done exactly this. Strangely enough most not married.

Wasn't it at least 5 years on a household registration card to ask for TC and at least 2 years processing time? 3+5+2= you are looking at a theoretical 10 years process... NEVER even HEARD or READ about someone getting it so "quickly" and if you are going to tell me that any of your plenty Western male friends has got it in less than (at the very least) 15 years I won't believe it.

Not that I believe you know plenty of Western men naturalized Thai anyway (we may have a much different concept of "plenty" of course)...

Edited July 12, 2007 by BAF

[BAF]

- 3rd one; markedly different. Presumably this is the one you don't like.

Dismissing this like just something BAF is interested in means, besides other things, ignoring the plight of families risking to be split and children to be forced out of their homecountry/abandoned.

It's distustingly inhuman. It's the 3rd world.

A sadder side of the place, Thailand supplies many mailorder brides to desparate western men;

Let's throw in a bunch of desperate western women... do we?

we don't necessarily want to allow free access to those men to come back, given the horrendous divorce stats, and general 'loser status' of the husbands concerned

Funny you say that, many folks back in the first world would think of ANYONE voluntarily choosing to live in a third world country as a "loser"...

- we won't exactly get the cream of society coming here with an open door policy.

True, I hear if it wasn't for Thailand's open doors policy Gates and Buffet would have already made the move...

(just to be sure, are we still talking about a corrupt, dangerous, dirty, noisy, polluted developing country with motocys racing on the potholed sidewalks and unsecured high voltage wires hanging a few feet over your head?)

There are limits to comparing developed and developing countries - hel_l even NZ has to play around with their immigration formula the whole time to get the type of people they want.

You mean New Zealand doesn't grant PR and citizenship to spouses and parents of New Zealanders?

(and while you are replying keep well in mind NZ's size as compared to Thailand...)

Plus of course, many Thai people don't want Isaan overrun with landowning foreigners for typical nationalistic PR reasons.

Oh my God (well, if I had one)...

I seem to remember that resembles one of the points I have been trying to make but am not too sure. Will have to check on that...

Sounds like Italy has a recipe for idiocy with their immigration policy; then again, it is considered to be a nice gateway to the EU for illegal immigration

1. EU policies not Italian policies (after a few dozens repetitions I am 8,3% sure you will get the general idea)

2. Illegal immigrants = the ones breaking those policies inspirated laws

3. Nice gateway? Yes. Ever opened a world atlas and seen how Italy is positioned with respect to the sources of much of that illegal immigration and the rest of the Western Europe? No, I guess...

- supposedly Italy has 500,000-800,000 illegal immigrants living there, and 2.7 legal ones (ref. IDOS, Eurispes).

Yes, I seem to remember reading very similar numbers posted several times in this very thread by a very smart, handsome and well informed chap whose name now escapes me apart that it begins with BAF...

Niiiiiiiiice role model.

Yes.

For someone who doesn't understand that illegal immigrants = the ones breaking those policies inspirated laws.

Mind you, like USA no doubt the illegal immigrants do all the work that Italians are too good for, same as most places. trouble is, such a model won't work here; we already have dregs of society to do all the menial tasks. We need decent people!!!

You mean like European millionaires who don't need to work?

Edited July 12, 2007 by BAF

[BAF]

Now, this 'one man' comment. One man called Gulu Lalvani proposed that the marine tax here should be dropped from 40-300% (depending on item) to a flat 0%. In return he would build a property development with a marina.

The tax was dropped in Feb 2006 as I recall.

Lots of things can be done by one person. So find that person and see how you go. Or would you prefer to continue to complain to some sympathetic ears none of whom are going to do anything about your issue? I suspect i know the answer.

You are a genius! Pure genius, let me tell you.

And please let me thank you soooooo much for have solved all my problems with just a couple of milliseconds activity of your brain cells and a few strokes on your keyboard!

I just wonder how's possible for the UN to so shamelessly and unforgivably continue to ignore you to solve all the rest of the world's problems..!

Now, how much is a marina? I think the one Lalvani enticed Phuket authorities with came pretty cheap at just around 6 billion Baht...

Your pipedream of getting a gang of militant farang to somehow force Thailand to improve treatment of you farang is simply not realistic because there are some farang doing just fine already and not wanting to open the flood gates, plus, most people are lazy and would rather complain.

...and some others would simply go on denying and justifying any problem until it bites them in the rear. Probably even after.

Clearly the treatment you feel you will receive here, makes you not want to come here. Enjoy USA and that nursing; sounds like Heng's advice for planning is in fact occuring; and you are planning to go there - enjoy :-)

It has ALWAYS been occuring. I haven't left Thailand with a few clothes and a couple of dollars in a backpack, we have flown to our new home in business class.

It's the ones wasting their lives working and "investing" all they have in Thailand and building their families's future in the stable instability of the Thai mess the ones you and Heng should be giving this advice to...

P.S. I will make sure to enjoy it

[asiaworld]

hey BAF , great thread you've started over here ! Unfortunately there are some threads that do not produce any proper answers, and this truly turned out to be one . What bothers me is that you've got 1 VERY VALID POINT, that everyone chooses to ignore . To all of you posting "well wishers" out there let me tell you my story.

i was born in a third world country with little perspectives. Most of my teenage life was spent securing my future, as i was born into a family of lawyers i did lotsa homeschooling,as the result now i have 5 flags of residency (passports/PR/long term residency)<Thailand & EU included > none based on marriage,but i know about it . The sad point everyone wishes to ignore is if there were any worldwide survey competition on Xenophobia>official & streetside

Thailand would be winning year on year ((well sorry probably taking silver due to North Korea !)) Burma may be not as bad as some of you think, esp. incase of marriage ! Italy belongs to as few as 20 countries in the world, which provide fast track naturalisation based on Marriage ! Which is the great thing, as it usually denotes, the serious attitudes to family & its stability . Thailand unfortunately is on the opposite end along with Lao PDR(where you need permission from MOFA to marry a national, alas if you get one, it's easy to settle in Lao afterwards!)& our dear North Korea .

The only thing is that Thailand is the only member of the community of developed(to the certain extend ) mainstream community countries that does it ! i can feel your pain, i'm based here for almost 10 years,due to its convenient location as "the hub of asia" ( it's just geography ), and not a bad place to invest . Honestly it took me at least 5 years to start to understand this 'planet Thailand' . All of you my foreign friends, The 'Complete overhaul & Rewiring of the Brain'

is compulsory if u want to ahve a happy life here ! This is lovely country IF you Born Thai ! Otherwise the refusal to shrug off the medievial Xenophobia is soo pathetic ! Japan almost did it. PRChina & South Korea are jumping the hoops to do it . Sadly no influential politicians are bothered to readThaiVisa

Edited July 23, 2007 by asiaworld

[simon43]

BAF - In answer to your question as to how you can stay long-term in Thailand and not work and living off your existing 'wealth', etc etc:

I think the simple answer is that you cannot!! There are no visa options available for someone of your age.

I am also married to a Thai lady with a young family and business. I own businesses and do not have to work. I am under 50. I found myself in a similar crazy situation.

My solution was to sign up for a Master's degree course and obtain a student (ED) visa. There seemed to be no other way So I now study 2 days per week and 'relax' for the other 5....

Simon

[meemiathai]

The fact that there are even different countries is wrong already. Why do I need a passport to travel anyway? I should be

allowed to cross any border and stand in any part of the world without anyone bothering me. Who is doing wrong here? Who

is responsible for the big mistake of dividing this world into so many parts? Get them and kill them!

[BAF]

hey BAF , great thread you've started over here ! Unfortunately there are some threads that do not produce any proper answers, and this truly turned out to be one . What bothers me is that you've got 1 VERY VALID POINT, that everyone chooses to ignore .

Hi asiaworld, thanks for reading and for your comments!

Yes, of course the smiling blind daydreaming Thai apologist brigade can't but ignore my points since they are totally unable to properly address them with an arguments based point-by-point reply. This thread is a magnificent example of that

NO ONE of the Thai apologists who have posted here has gone beyond "the first level" of the discussion: they have asked questions or have made some points and then invariably left the answers/replies they got TOTALLY UNANSWERED only to ask some other unrelated things or make some other unrelated points and repeat the useless and time wasting process.

Following through the discussion and actually trying to get deeper into the arguments would have meant to eventually bring to light and to admit the underlying Thai xenophobia, racist and classism driving the Thai immigration laws (not to talk about the economic stupidity of it all, at least for the bulk of the Thai society)...

Edited August 5, 2007 by BAF

[BAF]

BAF - In answer to your question as to how you can stay long-term in Thailand and not work and living off your existing 'wealth', etc etc:

I think the simple answer is that you cannot!! There are no visa options available for someone of your age.

Hi simon43, yes that's the answer. I have shown and detailed my situation and my (and my lawyers') understanding of the current immigration laws. That was just a rhetorical question which I asked to the Thai apologists confuting my arguments and I am still waiting for their answer...

Let's try once more :

I'm still waiting for those Illuminati to show me how I can fully legally move to Thailand on a the long term basis needed to build one's own family's future.

My half decent immigration lawyers tell me the ONE applicable answer is working (slaving) here and that "long term basis" translates in "1 (ONE) year extensions"...

I am also married to a Thai lady with a young family and business. I own businesses and do not have to work. I am under 50. I found myself in a similar crazy situation.

My solution was to sign up for a Master's degree course and obtain a student (ED) visa. There seemed to be no other way So I now study 2 days per week and 'relax' for the other 5....

Yes, all we have to resort to are tricks and loopholes (which they are trying to close down with their seemingly almost weekly changes of laws, regs and interpretations anyway)...

The only real solution (it's been for me anyway) is to leave, especially since I value the stability and safety of the environment in which to base my family's future above my personal enjoyment.

Third world countries are no place to build one's family's future and raise one's kids and the Thai immigration laws are just one piece of the puzzle...

Edited August 5, 2007 by BAF

[Heng]

Just because the local immigration system doesn't like you doesn't mean there is anything xenophobic about it. No more xenophobic than pre-1950's America was to blacks or UK to Indians during colonial times, etc. It's just preferences and sour grapes (yours).

[BAF]

Just because the local immigration system doesn't like you doesn't mean there is anything xenophobic about it. No more xenophobic than pre-1950's America was to blacks or UK to Indians during colonial times, etc. It's just preferences and sour grapes (yours).

I guess you're saying that Americans should still be treating blacks like they were pre-'50s and Brits treating Indians like they were during the colonial time...

Anyway, I have already said that I agree on this one (actually it was one of the most important points I have made): let's treat them like they treat us (RECIPROCATION) and see whose "preferences and sour grapes" is...

For starters, you wouldn't be holding a US Green Card

Edited August 6, 2007 by BAF

[mellow1]

BAF- You are not going to be able to win any argument on this forum,if it puts Thailand in any negative light.It's called Thai bashing,there are rules against it.The forum members also apply self censorship.It's a good forum for information,and general topics,so try to use it for that and enjoy it for that.

I can't believe you are still trying to push this issue.Also reciprocation is not in the interest of 3rd world countries,only taking,getting for free,and crying discrimination when thing don't go their way.

You put forth good arguments,in well written form,and it would be good to see these skills applied to other topics.

Also,I have no idea why you would even want to live here.You don't have a Thai wife,not looking to live in a cheaper manner because you are on a pension.Your young,go do things for a better future and stay away from 3rd world countries.Come on vacation have fun and go somewhere else to live.Living here and coming for a vacation is by far not the same. Good luck to you BAF.

[Kerryd]

I think the easiest solution would be to buy a Thai Elite card, complete with the 5 year renewable visa. From what I've seen/heard, none of the hoops to jump through that would be required with most other visas.

1m baht (24,000E) would get you 5+ years of relative security. If you wanted, after 3 years apply for the PR.

I don't have any real problems with Thailand's policies regarding immigration/citizenship. Pretty complicated (in some cases for the layman), but they have their reasons. If they had lax policies that made it easy for any and everyone to move here, the country would be flooded with immigrants in short order.

Many would come from Thailand's poorer neighbours of course. Some would be upright, self-supporting, decent "westerners". Many would be less well-off "hippy/backpacker" stereotypes with little or no means of supporting themselves.

Citizenship in a country and the priveleges that come with it, should be earned, not handed out like prizes in a box of cereal. If you have to work to earn citizenship, you'll appreciate it more than if it was just handed to you. If you really want it, then you'll do what is required to get it.

<long winded rant(s) deleted. Got better things to do at the moment >