Retire Sooner? Or Later? What Would You Do?

[phuketrichard]

35,000/month for 2 and a million in the bank. NO way.

what if something happens or u wnat a trip back to the states once a year ( that alone is 100,000 baht+)

figure fo

[seancbk]

(PS . I'm confused by your assertion you never expected to live this old. You're early sixties? What do you do for a living? Professional stuntman?)

Not exactly. But I'm a Vietnam War veteran, both Army and Navy. I was a mine worker, a teamster and an industrial electrician. I have been a yacht racer and a commercial fisherman. I am a lifetime motorcyclist and no stranger to crashes. I have been hit by cars twice as a pedestrian. I have been stabbed in the chest and hit in the head with a baseball bat. I have had thirteen broken bones (not counting fingers and toes) and seven trauma operations. I have had over a thousand stitches in my body.

Evidently I am immortal, but sadly, not invulnerable to serious injury.

And now I'm a middle manager, with all the associated stresses and hazards. Hardest thing I ever did.

Your reply made me smile. I too expected to die younger, I worked in the equivalent of a SWAT team and have done Close Protection Security. I've been hit by a car (I was completely uninjured much to the surprise of the emergency services and the hospital doctors). I've been stabbed in a bar fight and have sustained numerous injuries doing daft things throughout my life.

I've always lived by the "live fast, die young, leave a pretty corpse" mantra....

How about retiring to Vietnam? or somewhere else ?

[poshthai]

My suggestion is to hang on a little.I retired at 49 and have lived here in Pattaya for 5 years and the cost goes up each year.We live well on 60k a month and have my own house and car albeit i have a good nest egg that i dont touch..Overall i would say that is the minimum requirement to have a half decent retirement.

[lennart2000]

i wouldn't retire there. I would expect to return to UK once a year for a break and to see family and friends and other paperwork etc requirements and enjoy 1, 2 or 3 months here of our summer (hopefully). Then you just get a non immigrant O visa for the next 9 months+ in Thailand. Do 2+ border runs each 3 months as a holiday or a one day visa run before the next years eagerly awaited short trip home. Then retire there once you really KNOW it's ALL right for you both for the rest of your lives. I expect for many it turns a bit sour after years and il health probably forces many back here with little money left. You can only bring back 50,000 Baht each trip without tor tor 3 etc. There are many reasons NOT to commit to LOS (Land of Smiles)

If you do expect to return to UK, then...........No money kept in Thailand. No risk to your capital. No requirements other than visa run after 3 months.

Test to see what life is like first before jumping in and sending funds to Thailand.

Personally, after seeing through some of the smiles and becoming aware of the foreigners lot, I have the oppinion that Thailand is great for a holiday of what ever length (cheap, weather, girls etc) , but without financial commitment and without burning bridges.

Use a Nationwide flex card to withdraw funds

Golden rule = Don't take more into Thailand than you can afford to walk away from.

Your Golden Rule is utterly nonsense. There is absolutely no problems having your money in Thailand.

[Paul MBMG]

Every individual situation is different. You need to cost really carefully all costs of living that you anticipate an dthen try to figure the ones that you don't.

Doesn't sound like planning is one of your fortes so best to get some help on that.

Bit based on the info that you've given, it's impossible to give any meaningful advice.

I can send you some spreadsheets that would help you plan (PM me if you want those) or you can just use standard programmes like MS Money

You'll need to collect a lot of data about Chiang Mai (I remember a client who retired up there being astonished at the high cost of fresh produce in the locsal markets) - not a probelm if you have millions of Dollars in the bank - but for you guys stuff like that could impact.

[Tyke]

I had to make a similar decision on whether to retire at 53 or 55. I returned to London from a year's leave of absence travelling the world and stayed to 55 to see if I could get an early retirement package. I hated every minute and just wanted to get back to Thailand. I eventually left 4 years ago aged 55. Psychologically it was a mistake to wait for 2 years but financially it was better. However, looking back I should not have waited as I am financially secure and would have been even then.

In your case, I would wait that extra 2 years to make sure you are comfortable in your old age. Having insufficient funds in Thailand won't be a big joke, although probably it is one of the best places to have limited income as things are quite cheap. You must make sure you are likely to have enough funds to support a retirement visa, though, or everything else becomes irrelevent. You must also make sure you can provide for medical needs in your old age as these start to become a dominant expense at some stage. I personally don't have medical insurance but am considering it now.

Without these provisions for the future, a good life could turn nasty, and old age can be very nasty. Have a nice day!

[Shotime]

I wish you had told us everything changed for you. I was going to invite you over. I read slowly too. Glad things worked out for you. You seem to have the right attitude for this place (tomorrow is tomorrow is).

There were some very cheap shots at the USA again. Especially towards a vet (?). For the future never tell them where u r from.

[BEENTHEREDONETHAT]

Oldboy

Glad things are looking up for you and it is good to be able to accumulate a bit more money before you retire. I for one find retirement to be great. I've been retired for 24 years so I am getting the hang of it. I've only been living full time in LOS for the last couple of years. It has been great and I look forward to another 20+ years. I retired on my 50th birthday and have never regretted it for a minute.

As far as finances go if you can save 10% of your income every year and add it to your principal you will be amazed at the results. Just consider it a bill and every month take 10% and add it to your principal. It isn't that hard to do. If you can't live on 10% less you are living to tight to substain any out of the ordinary exspense like medical etc. The nicest part of having a bit of money stuck away is it eliminates most of the stress in life. Stress is a huge contributor to a shorter life.

Good luck in whatever you do. In my opinion LOS is a great place to retire to.

[WilliamIV]

I would agree with all the posters who assert that the Thai Government is less than "Welcoming" to any sort of outsider. The xenophobia stems from their fear of foreign radical ideas (like questioning authority? improving education? expecting government accountability?) might infect the local populace.

That said, a country, especially this one, is made up of a government and its people, and you will find the people of Thailand extremely pleased to have you here, quite helpful, and sincerely friendly.

The only two valid "risk" points I have heard brought up are the exchange risk and the deposit requirement risk. Let me briefly elaborate.

Exchange Risk: Assuming you have the minimum required to make the B800,000 (or whatever, in combination with your income) at some point, and then LEAVE it in the bank and don't touch it, there is no exchange risk. Baht are Baht. If, on the other hand, you need to transfer that amount in each year, and the Baht strengthens, you may find yourself unable to meet the requirement at some time in the future. It sounds like your intention, however, is to bank the funds in Thailand and leave them there, and live off your pension. It's a good plan, and eliminates this risk.

Deposit Requirement Risk: The size of the deposit required has continued to increase over the years, and the word on the street is that B1M is on the horizon, just awaiting the next change of government. If you have no ability to increase your deposit when required, your retirement in Thailand may be abruptly terminated on your next renewal.

As long as you understand those two risks, I would say, do it as soon as you can. Don't listen to all these folks who say "you can't live on..." some figure. I suspect they are living farang lifestyles and not taking advantage of the freedom and economy of "lightening up the load".

You can rent a very very nice two-story townhouse in trendy Niman area for between B10-12K. Good wholesome food, especially veggies, are practically free compared to what you pay in the US. Personally, I still buy meat in the big markets - specifically, Carrefour - for sanitation reasons, but even then, the cost of chicken or pork is a fifth what it costs you in San Diego. Health care is so cheap as to be laughable - my several emergency room visits have cost me each about B300 (I'm quite tall and bang my head a lot ... hahaha), and I'm going for a complete "50 year old time" physical at Chiang Mai University next week, for 100 bucks (my very cursory physical in the US when I was 45 cost me over USD500)

You decide whether you need cable TV, how many air conditioners running how many hours (I have two air conditioners - one for guests, one for the Master Bedroom - and neither runs any time but at night, and probably not more than 20 days out of the year. Fans cost about 500B and do just fine in Chiang Mai.

To summarize, consider how well you might be able to accept the two risks I mention above. Forget about advice about cost of living - it's not a problem at all. Then, decide and do.

Best of Luck.

Deposit Requirement Risk > - Peekint - Past Practise shows your assumption to be WRONG

In the past - those who are already in the Kingdom on a Visa Extension

- have not had to increase their Deposit. They have been "Grand Fathered" at their

Existing Level. When I did my first extension the requirement was Bht200k and

that is still the amount I am required to have.

The Fact that The Deposit Requirement might be increased however is an argument for

early Retirement and to process your first extension as soon as possible.

Bill

Edited July 14, 2008 by WilliamIV

[zazaza]

Re your thoughts about retiring to Thailand.

Hope you might be interested in my experiences and comments.

I retired here, from UK, just 5 years ago. By some peoples standards (not my own though) I suppose I could be considered to be moderately wealthy. I worked for the same company for almost 30 years, taking early retirement when I was 55, then formed my own business, which I later sold for a reasonable profit. As a result, I receive an inflation linked company pension, a UK State pension, plus income from my investments. Apart from Capital which I brought into Thailand (when the Baht was 75 to £1 Sterling), which I needed to buy property and cars I now normally only bring funds into Thailand to pay for my day-to-day living expenses. I was divorced (from my Thai wife), two years ago but still support her and my two daughters, the youngest is studying at an International school in Bangkok while the eldest is at University in Australia.

I recently analysed my normal living expenses for the last 12 months (not including support for my ex and my daughters), and hope you might be interested in the results: (I own my own house, so don’t have to pay rent)

Expenses type Av. Monthly cost (Thai Baht)

Car repair and running expenses, incl. tax & insurance (2 cars) 12,000

Utilities (Water, gas, electricity, garbage disposal) 4,000

Property security 1,000

Garden/swimming pool maintenance 4,000

Maid (1 day per week) 2,000

Pest control services 1,000

Satellite TV 2,200

Groceries/General Living expenses (2 people) 15,000

Eating out/Entertaining 12,000

Medical/dental costs 3,000

Misc. Household expenses/goods 12,000

Property repairs/renewals 10,000

Bank charges/legal expenses/Tax (re property ownership) 7,000

Vacation 4,000

Personal expenses 10,000

Total 99,200

Some people might consider this extravagant but actually I think we live frugally, we do eat out quite often (2-3 times each week), but not at expensive restaurants and we only take one trip away each year normally somewhere in Thailand. Anyway, I can’t imagine being able to manage on less than THB 100,000 per month.

You don’t mention how you’re planning to live. Are you thinking about buying a condominium or house (not legal but can be done) or renting property? I live in Hua Hin and I believe renting property here is expensive viz: small-unfurnished apartment minimum of THB 15,000 pm or a 2/3 bedroom house at THB 35,000 ++ pm.

If you’re going to buy then you will need to bring in sufficient Capital for the property itself plus, at least 2 million for furniture, fixtures, fittings, kitchenware, soft furnishings etc. Also what about transport. If you’re planning to travel around the region you will probably need a 4x4 car. Minimum cost new for a Toyota Fortuner, for example, is about 1.2 million. Even used they still cost around 900k.

I lived in Atlanta, Ga from 1994 to 1998 and, based on that experience I have to say that living costs in Thailand are NOT cheaper than the USA (one exception would be medical expenses however).

My suggestion: Don’t even think about coming to live in Thailand permanently. By all means come here as a tourist once/twice a year, rent a cheap apartment, rent a car and travel around the region. Thailand is not Paradise by my standards and I think you’d be better off staying in the US or maybe retiring to Latin America (Costa Rica/Mexico?) or even somewhere in South America. For a variety of reasons, some of them personal, I now have some regrets about moving here permanently and if I could afford to would return to the UK but I don’t have sufficient funds to re-purchase property there now.

Suggest you do a Pros & Cons analysis and weigh it all up before you make a final decision.

Good Luck

[Chaimai]

What does your made do for 2,000 Baht ?

[zazaza]

What does your made do for 2,000 Baht ?

She cleans the house, does the laundry, irons the clothes, just about everything apart from cooking. Unfortunately she doesn't get THB2,000 every month, probably half that but 2,000 is what I have to pay the property management company that she works for.

[glyph]

"My wife and I had not planned on getting this old, but it has happened, and we are setting it up to live in Thailand...Which would you choose? Retire next year at 35K a month with 500K banked, or wait two more years and live on 65K with a million banked? And, yes, we did not plan this very well at all, never expecting to live this long."

You and your wife should develop a "plan C". You will be a stranger in a strange land and, frankly, you don't have nearly enough money to live comfortably.

[Oldboy]

Re your thoughts about retiring to Thailand.

Hope you might be interested in my experiences and comments.

<trim>

Suggest you do a Pros & Cons analysis and weigh it all up before you make a final decision.

Good Luck

zazaza,

I really appreciate the thoughtful and thorough analysis. I've reached the same conclusion, that we will be content to vacation, eventually for as long as we like, and continue to make our home here in San Diego. It's actually not too miserable here at all.

Friends, farang and Thai wife, just returned from their annual visit to Chiang Mai (her birthplace). They are happy to be back, and I'm sure already starting to look forward to next year and another visit. They have given very much the same advice as you did.

Oldboy

[flying]

Total 99,200

Some people might consider this extravagant but actually I think we live frugally, we do eat out quite often (2-3 times each week), but not at expensive restaurants and we only take one trip away each year normally somewhere in Thailand. Anyway, I can't imagine being able to manage on less than THB 100,000 per month.

Thanks for the list.

A lot of it looks pretty reasonable but some looks high too.

I would guess many would not spend on these...

Property security 1,000

Garden/swimming pool maintenance 4,000

Maid (1 day per week) 2,000

Pest control services 1,000

Property repairs/renewals 10,000

Bank charges/legal expenses/Tax (re property ownership) 7,000

Then I wonder if these would not be a bit less too.....

Misc. Household expenses/goods 12,000

Vacation 4,000

Personal expenses 10,000

Thanks

[Oldboy]

OP here. To update: We have continued to vacation in the region, always with time spent in Thailand. I just got back from three weeks diving around Phuket and we will both be back in the region in July for a month. I've been retired for nearly a year. My wife is still working, but is ready to pull the trigger anytime we decide.

When she does, here's the plan -

1. We will keep our house here in San Diego. If we can rent it out, fine, but it's not a necessity.
2. We will spend 3-5 months a year (Nov-Mar) based in Thailand - TBD, Phuket/Khao Lak/Krabi vicinity. We will continue to explore the other countries in the region.
3. As of today, in round numbers, we have THB2.5 million cash, another 2.5M in term deposits and stocks. My income is THB60K per month, hers if she retired today would be THB90K. Our monthly income is provable, so we can retire without the Thai bank deposit.
4. She is continuing to work at a job she enjoys, but the possibility of a forthcoming "golden handshake" is keeping her at it, and her monthly pension continues to accrue.

It really feels like the best possible outcome, and now I'm glad we didn't rush into it a few years ago. The last few years have enabled us to clear our affairs and concentrate on increasing our fixed monthly incomes. It's not like we are escaping some grim existence here, although right now the weather is chilly and rainy. If we had jumped back when I first posted, it would be a very different story.

I want to again thank those who made thoughtful posts in reply to my OP way back when. There was much for me to think about and I am glad I put it out there for comment when I did.

-Oldboy

[jazzbo]

Congratulations ... to enjoy your combined retirements to their fullest you should practice keeping any hard financial numbers as a matter between yourselves and your fiduciaries ... the Internet is never as anonymous as it seems.

Edited March 26, 2011 by jazzbo