Immigration officer complaining about my visa exemption

[Yewbzee]

I work in the oil industry and do a regular 4 weeks on 4 weeks off rota and enter Thailand every other month on a visa exemption. So I came through Suvarnabhumi on Thursday having been out of the country for 4 weeks and the immigration officer was not happy with the fact I was coming here every other month and using a visa exemption. She said next time I will need a visa.

 

I've been entering Thailand this way for over 10 years, with the exception of the Covid period where I obtained a retirement visa here. I have never overstayed and always stick to the rules or so I thought. I wasn't aware that there's a limit on how many times you can enter on a visa exemption but basically she was saying me coming here 6 times a year on a visa exemption is not on.

 

I could understand if I was doing visa runs every month and re-entering the country with no breaks in between but I'm out of the country for a month every time. Has anybody experienced this previously?

[Bill97]

Hard to think you are a tourist.  Is visa exempt for tourists?  

[Regyai]

This was the precise scenario that the Multi-entry Tourist Visa was concocted for. (As opposed to facilitating  Multi-Entry Tourists).

 

Even so, as things stand you do no wrong.

 

Cant help but see the parallels to a similar experience with a immigration harridan when I attempted entry on a visa exempt for the second time (both after Covid reopening - but the last prior exempt was over twenty years ago). 6 a year or two in two decades who knows what trips their weird hormones.

 

Do what I did - ignore the "next time you will get a visa" bitching and carry on regardless . Subsequent two trips exempt stamps done with a smile by obliging 'XY' chromosome versions.

[Yewbzee]

I will concede that coming here 6 times a year is a stretch to classify myself as a tourist but my current passport is 8 years old and is totally peppered with visa exemption stamps so it's odd that none of the previous immigration officers have ever mentioned it.

 

On the last point by Regyai I did wonder if just ignoring it was an option or do they "mark" your passport in the system with a "visa required on the next visit" comment?

 

Can I obtain a tourist visa while inside Thailand or do I have to get one while I'm out of country? 

[BritTim]

Sadly, you are not the first who has run into this. It is up to the individual immigration official whether they believe visa exemptions are being used to stay longer than is consistent with regular tourism. Most officials are sympathetic to cases like yours where trying to get visas is extremely problematic, but you ran into an official who thinks differently.

 

It appears you are over age 50, and you might consider doing the following (it will be necessary once a year). Go to Savannakhet Laos for a multiple entry Non O based on being over age 50. You apply in the morning of one way and have your passport back with the multiple entry visa on the afternoon of the following day. It is best to apply on a Tuesday or Wednesday (the queues are worse on Mondays and Thursdays).

[ketilnm]

1 hour ago, Bill97 said:

Hard to think you are a tourist.  Is visa exempt for tourists?  

Define tourist? Is someone who spend his time off work in another country, not a tourist?

[DrJack54]

1 hour ago, Yewbzee said:

Has anybody experienced this previously?

Not personally but this has come up even prior to covid.

Oil gas etc workers for many years just obtained 30 day exempt.

That is becoming not an option.

In your case the io many have noticed the previous non O retirement.

Knew you had visa option.

 

[DrJack54]

4 minutes ago, ketilnm said:

Define tourist? Is someone who spend his time off work in another country, not a tourist?

From the OP....

"I've been entering Thailand this way for over 10 years" 

 

The OP is NOT a tourist..

 

In future could consider ME non O retirement from Savannakhet or obtain non O and subsequent extension also multi reentry permit

Edited June 10, 2023 by DrJack54

[Yewbzee]

Dr Jack, yes the retirement visa issue is a good point and that did cross my mind.

Edited June 10, 2023 by Yewbzee

[bamboozled]

1 hour ago, Regyai said:

This was the precise scenario that the Multi-entry Tourist Visa was concocted for. (As opposed to facilitating  Multi-Entry Tourists).

 

Even so, as things stand you do no wrong.

 

Cant help but see the parallels to a similar experience with a immigration harridan when I attempted entry on a visa exempt for the second time (both after Covid reopening - but the last prior exempt was over twenty years ago). 6 a year or two in two decades who knows what trips their weird hormones.

 

Do what I did - ignore the "next time you will get a visa" bitching and carry on regardless . Subsequent two trips exempt stamps done with a smile by obliging 'XY' chromosome versions.

Thanks for the new vocab word, Regyai: "Harridan"...a strict, bossy, or belligerent old woman. "a bullying old harridan"

[patman30]

12 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

Not personally but this has come up even prior to covid.

Oil gas etc workers for many years just obtained 30 day exempt.

That is becoming not an option.

In your case the io many have noticed the previous non O retirement.

Knew you had visa option.

 

exactly this
i know a few people that have been told the same before 2020
some oil workers
others just frequent travellers/on the move

[DrJack54]

4 minutes ago, patman30 said:

exactly this
i know a few people that have been told the same before 2020
some oil workers
others just frequent travellers/on the move

Back in the time when there was triple entry tourist visas I was using them as I flew to Vietnam every month.

At Saigon Thai consulate I was applying for this triple tourist visa the IO made this comment....

"You are over 50 next time need apply retirement visa" 

Obviously noting ongoing time spent in Thailand. 

[Regyai]

15 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

From the OP....

"I've been entering Thailand this way for over 10 years" 

 

The OP is NOT a tourist..

 

In future could consider ME non O retirement from Savannakhet or obtain non O and subsequent extension also multi reentry permit

Not a tourist...how so?

 

A serial tourist granted, but anything other than the myopic view of a tourist = 1 x 2weeks x year still fits the description.

 

When do you cease being a tourist?

 

I know many folks within Europe who (sl)EasyJet to other countries each weekend - does 52 trips a year make them something other than the tourist they are?

[DrJack54]

Just now, Regyai said:

 

When do you cease being a tourist?

When the immigration officer says so. 

[patman30]

2 minutes ago, Regyai said:

Not a tourist...how so?

A serial tourist granted, but anything other than the myopic view of a tourist = 1 x 2weeks x year still fits the description.

When do you cease being a tourist?

I know many folks within Europe who (sl)EasyJet to other countries each weekend - does 52 trips a year make them something other than the tourist they are?

not disagreeing
but a 6 months a year tourist is borderline taxable resident

[Yewbzee]

She actually tried to make it sound like she was doing me a favour by saying the visa exemption "is not good for you". 

 

I tried to point out in a  friendly manner that it was actually ideal for me.

[Yewbzee]

I think I'll just apply for another multi entry retirement visa to save any future grief. I'm assuming I can still do that at Jomtien and change my visa exemption to the Non 'O' ?

 

Am I correct in saying that medical insurance is required now for the retirement visa? It wasn't the last time I had one a couple of years ago.

[DrJack54]

19 minutes ago, Yewbzee said:

I think I'll just apply for another multi entry retirement visa to save any future grief. I'm assuming I can still do that at Jomtien and change my visa exemption to the Non 'O' ?

 

Am I correct in saying that medical insurance is required now for the retirement visa? It wasn't the last time I had one a couple of years ago.

You would not be obtaining a ME Non O retirement inside Thailand.

That is a visa with one year validity and can be applied for at Savannakhet

 

You can obtain a Non O in Thailand from a tourist visa entry conversion using TM86 and other requirements.

Subsequently obtain 12 month extension.

You would also need to obtain multi reentry permit. 

 

You would need to check with Jomtien if they are still processing a non O from visa exempt entry using form TM86. 

 

Medical insurance is not required for non O or extensions 

 

Given the nature of your work and travel you could consider using agent

Especially living in Jomtien where many good ones

Edited June 10, 2023 by DrJack54

[BritTim]

1 hour ago, Yewbzee said:

I think I'll just apply for another multi entry retirement visa to save any future grief. I'm assuming I can still do that at Jomtien and change my visa exemption to the Non 'O' ?

 

Am I correct in saying that medical insurance is required now for the retirement visa? It wasn't the last time I had one a couple of years ago.

Neither a multiple entry Non O visa from Savannakhet nor a Non O visa at immigration require medical insurance.

 

The Non O visa from Immigration may well prove problematic logistically. The full plan is to apply for the 90-day Non O visa and subsequently (near the end of the 90 days) apply for one-year extensions. The initial Non O visa application at immigration is taken under consideration. It may well be necessary to return 30 days after the application to have the visa and 90-day permission to stay stamped into your passport. If your work schedule is flexible, this may be doable, but may not be possible if you cannot fit immigration's timescales. The one-year extensions are easier. They are approved instantly (or at worst the next day). you do need to be able to attend immigration about 1-30 days before expiry of the permission to stay to make the application.

[scubascuba3]

For an easy life just get the non imm O retirement

[StayinThailand2much]

3 hours ago, Yewbzee said:

On the last point by Regyai I did wonder if just ignoring it was an option or do they "mark" your passport in the system with a "visa required on the next visit" comment?

Very likely. I had to go through 3 interviews on 3 trips to Thailand in a row back in late 2019/early 2020. I presume that such a "mark", as you call it, from the first airport immigration triggered a second interview (almost denied entry) at the second airport, and after that even at a land border. My solution was to spend more than half a year elsewhere. No problems when arriving after that.

Edited June 10, 2023 by StayinThailand2much

[Pattaya57]

On 6/10/2023 at 2:14 PM, patman30 said:

not disagreeing
but a 6 months a year tourist is borderline taxable resident

I'm a tourist and I spent 8 months in Thailand on visa exempt entries last year plus nearly 3 months already this year ????

 

Personally when you have a home or work outside of Thailand so don't live full time in Thailand then you're a tourist aren't you?

[BritTim]

12 minutes ago, Pattaya57 said:

I'm a tourist and I spent 8 months in Thailand on visa exempt entries last year plus nearly 3 months already this year ????

 

Personally when you have a home or work outside of Thailand so don't live full time in Thailand then you're a tourist aren't you?

Arguably yes; arguably no. I take a broad view of "tourism", and spending a lot of time here for pleasure (not working) makes you a tourist, but not a typical tourist, according to my world view. What you and I think, though, is irrelevant as far as immigration is concerned. It depends on what individual officials think, and the guidance set by their superior. That determines whether you can spend long periods here on tourist visas and visa exemptions.

[Pattaya57]

7 minutes ago, BritTim said:

It depends on what individual officials think, and the guidance set by their superior. That determines whether you can spend long periods here on tourist visas and visa exemptions.

Thailand limits visa exempt to 2 per year at land borders, if they are worried about how many visa exempts by air then why do they not just set a limit? To say you can have unlimited visa exempts per year by air but then leave it to an individual IO to decide you have too many is pretty crazy

[JoseThailand]

Stand your ground and don't be easily intimidated by the boys (and girls) in brown. They have no legal grounds to deny you entry if you meet the 3 requirements (cash, hotel, tickets). You never overstayed, you are not blacklisted. Everything they say about "staying in Thailand too much" is pure intimidation. 

 

I've been in Thailand 3+ years as a "tourist" and they tried to intimidate and give me sh*t countless times. I know all their tricks.

Edited June 11, 2023 by JoseThailand

[StayinThailand2much]

11 minutes ago, JoseThailand said:

I've been in Thailand 3+ years as a "tourist" and they tried to intimidate and give me sh*t countless times. I know all their tricks.

The problem is that they can always deny you at will, if they want to, claiming that you "don't have enough funds for your stay", even if you waved bundles of 100-dollar notes in front of their face.

[JoseThailand]

22 minutes ago, StayinThailand2much said:

The problem is that they can always deny you at will, if they want to, claiming that you "don't have enough funds for your stay", even if you waved bundles of 100-dollar notes in front of their face.

Yes, it's called falsifying the evidence and is a crime. They can do that, but what if you file a complaint and they get caught? Big Joke would be happy to bust a couple more unscrupulous immigration officers.

[Sticky Rice Balls]

 as others have said it seems to me its a luck of the draw as i scope out the IOs when i always land as BKK and see who appears to be "nice" to folks ahead of me..

 

I landed in BKK may 1 and gotta say it was the quickest EVER in 15 yrs...10 mins!   and the guy was even scrolling his tablet with FB as he was stamping folks in..LOL

 

he DID ask me if i had a visa and i just said im backpacking and leaving after the 30 days as I too have been doing this for yearly since 2008  ONE way tix and NO VISA ever.... ps i always come with a carry on so this may help my excuse of only coming for "30 days" and tourism

 

YES--yes  yes gents I understand the risks.....but this was the first time he said i should get a visa next time...i just see it as another money grab and the love of useless paperwork the thais seem to love and keep the job market alive hence the guy at tesco that takes your parking pass! ????

 

I smiled and nodded as other have and moved along.....could just be protocol memo for the IOs

[Sticky Rice Balls]

3 minutes ago, JoseThailand said:

Yes, it's called falsifying the evidence and is a crime. They can do that, but what if you file a complaint and they get caught? Big Joke would be happy to bust a couple more unscrupulous immigration officers.

43 minutes ago, JoseThailand said:

Stand your ground and don't be easily intimidated by the boys (and girls) in brown. They have no legal grounds to deny you entry if you meet the 3 requirements (cash, hotel, tickets). You never overstayed, you are not blacklisted. Everything they say about "staying in Thailand too much" is pure intimidation. 

 

I've been in Thailand 3+ years as a "tourist" and they tried to intimidate and give me sh*t countless times. I know all their tricks.

 

THIS....its like going to jail and coming out a better criminal..the thais taught me the playbook!

and ive always come one way and never had a visa or a hotel....been working for 15 yrs now

[Caldera]

3 hours ago, Pattaya57 said:

Thailand limits visa exempt to 2 per year at land borders, if they are worried about how many visa exempts by air then why do they not just set a limit? To say you can have unlimited visa exempts per year by air but then leave it to an individual IO to decide you have too many is pretty crazy

Thailand's leadership simply can't agree on this, some want as many tourists as possible who stay as long as they have money to spend, while others see that as a security risk first and foremost.

 

So the result is that there isn't a clear limit in place, conveniently giving an IO three choices depending on their personality and mood: Relaxed, power-tripping or money-grabbing. Which explains why personal experiences reported here are all over the place.