This means more condos in Bangkok

20 hours ago, moogradod said:

And the world turned a blind eye when China devoured Tibet, killed millions and nearly a whole very precious culture. And China erects small islands in the South ChIna Sea to be able to claim sovereignty of the waters surrounding them according to international laws of what may be regarded as "your waters". I see a pattern emerging here - especially in view of Chinas history. Same like Putin with the small difference that the Russian guy seems to be not the smartest while Xi is. Start to learn Chinese folks. You or at least your decendends will need it.

 

And as someone said before - all nations look first after themselves. But to explain somewhat warped politics all the time with the weapons business - for sure to some extend, but there must be more to it. If it were not so complicated then there would be much less problems.

I hope you're right, and I admire your optimism, but I think you're wrong. Money plays an ever increasing role in political decisions. The West is just as corrupt as all the countries that the West accuses of corruption. 

Edited June 13, 20233 yr by sidneybear

34 minutes ago, cncltd1973 said:

my thoughts too, China will be very curious what Thais learned from US training.

Thailand acting like a bargirl, with you one day and back on the market the next day. curious if the US will train with Thailand again to learn what processes China showed them.

Look at every  Asian country in the region, and look back at Thailand, what do you see? 

 

Philippines, Korea, Burma, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, and compare with Thailand?  They have history for stay out as much trouble as possible during the colonization

 

"In the 19th and early 20th centuries, only Thailand survived European colonial threat in Southeast Asia due to centralising reforms enacted by King Chulalongkorn and because the French and the British decided it would be a neutral territory to avoid conflicts between their colonies"

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Thailand

4 hours ago, Gweiloman said:

Sigh. The reason there isn’t regional instability in the Western Hemisphere is because there aren’t any Chinese warships sailing in the “international waters” there.

 

Asia really doesn’t need or want US warships here but unfortunately, still unable to stand up to the big bully. Matter of time though.

The reason there isn't regional instability in east Asia is because the US is sailing warships in international waters.  However if you can get South Korea, Japan, Taiwan, and all the ASEAN countries to make it clear they don't want the US here we will depart and save ourselves a lot of money and trouble.

21 hours ago, brucegoniners said:

This is a huge mistake!

 

Good way to alienate the US and all the NATO countries.

you see any sign to power balance is changing? African countries, Middle east, a few Asian, as well old soviet states, Russia, Turkey a loose fraction of Nato, 

 

To be true, Nato can be challenged by being the world power structure in near future. 

 

A chess game with many players, and everyone wants the same resources. 

 

Food supply will be a problem as well energy, and we also know we try to save the climate at the same time. 

 

I believe Thailand looking for the most peaceful and easiest way out, and will gamble on China.

 

Western history the last 400 years do not look to convincing seen with Asian or African, neither middle east or even South American eyes.

Edited June 13, 20233 yr by Hummin

3 hours ago, heybruce said:

The reason there isn't regional instability in east Asia is because the US is sailing warships in international waters.  However if you can get South Korea, Japan, Taiwan, and all the ASEAN countries to make it clear they don't want the US here we will depart and save ourselves a lot of money and trouble.

Why not just leave and save yourselves a lot of money and trouble? No one’s holding a gun to your head to stay and meddle in Asian affairs. 
 

The reason is because you are trying to hold onto your (diminishing) hegemony and to continue to prop up the MIC which is the real ruling elite.

Just ask yourself: Do you want a life like the Communist Party of China or Russia or North Korea or some Autocraties would want to impose on you ?

 

I think the answer to that can help to determine what is right and wrong. Any other theories and sophisticated discussions are not necessary.

7 minutes ago, moogradod said:

Do you want a life like the Communist Party of China or Russia or North Korea... 

Well that is as stupid as asking do you want a life like the democracy in Norway, South Africa or the USA. All very different versions of a similar concept, but definitely NOT the same. 

4 minutes ago, mikebike said:

Well that is as stupid as asking do you want a life like the democracy in Norway, South Africa or the USA. All very different versions of a similar concept, but definitely NOT the same. 

If you cannot extract what I mean nobody can help you.

8 minutes ago, moogradod said:

If you cannot extract what I mean nobody can help you.

Oh I know exactly what you mean and find the analogy truly stupid. 

3 hours ago, moogradod said:

Just ask yourself: Do you want a life like the Communist Party of China or Russia or North Korea or some Autocraties would want to impose on you ?

 

I think the answer to that can help to determine what is right and wrong. Any other theories and sophisticated discussions are not necessary.

You forget our own history so easy! How long have the west been a democracy we love so much? And now on the turning point to ridiculous! Democrazy is a good idea on paper, but dam hard to practice in the long run when the growth of the economic starts to fade and become history.

 

 

9 hours ago, Gweiloman said:

Why not just leave and save yourselves a lot of money and trouble? No one’s holding a gun to your head to stay and meddle in Asian affairs. 
 

The reason is because you are trying to hold onto your (diminishing) hegemony and to continue to prop up the MIC which is the real ruling elite.

"The reason is because you are trying to hold onto your (diminishing) hegemony and to continue to prop up the MIC which is the real ruling elite."

 

It's becoming increasingly clear that you are a fan of hyperbole and paranoid conspiracy theories.

 

The US is in east Asia and other places because it is the leading economic and military power among a community of nations that wish to maintain a rules based world order that respects nation's borders and human rights.  Russia, China and many other nations hate the idea of having to respect borders and human rights.  They prefer a more anarchistic "might makes right" system where they can go wherever the opposition is weak and take whatever they want.

 

 

On 6/12/2023 at 2:30 PM, Hakuna Matata said:

This is a very good news indeed!

 

Say goodbye to United States.

 

We have a big new friend in the East!

Nihao ma comrade! ???? The East is RED!

22 hours ago, Hummin said:

"In the 19th and early 20th centuries, only Thailand survived European colonial threat in Southeast Asia due to centralising reforms enacted by King Chulalongkorn and because the French and the British decided it would be a neutral territory to avoid conflicts between their colonies"

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Thailand

It was the British and the French who decided Thailand should be a buffer, the Thais had no say.  There is also another important factor in why neither France nor Britain wanted to colonise Thailand: it was the dual pricing system!  ????

Edited June 14, 20233 yr by ThaiFelix

19 hours ago, Gweiloman said:

Why not just leave and save yourselves a lot of money and trouble? No one’s holding a gun to your head to stay and meddle in Asian affairs. 
 

The reason is because you are trying to hold onto your (diminishing) hegemony and to continue to prop up the MIC which is the real ruling elite.

Very well said.  

22 hours ago, Hummin said:

Western history the last 400 years do not look to convincing seen with Asian or African, neither middle east or even South American eyes.

Unfortunately the US is blind to the horror and misery it has inflicted in those regions.  They still insist they were saving the world lol.  Propaganda is an amazing tool.

10 hours ago, heybruce said:

The US is in east Asia and other places because it is the leading economic and military power among a community of nations that wish to maintain a rules based world order that respects nation's borders and human rights.  Russia, China and many other nations hate the idea of having to respect borders and human rights.  They prefer a more anarchistic "might makes right" system where they can go wherever the opposition is weak and take whatever they want.

How do you mange to keep that one eye closed all the time?  Are you deaf as well?

20 minutes ago, ThaiFelix said:

How do you mange to keep that one eye closed all the time?  Are you deaf as well?

How do you manage to keep posting opinions and insults with no facts?

1 hour ago, ThaiFelix said:

It was the British and the French who decided Thailand should be a buffer, the Thais had no say.  There is also another important factor in why neither France nor Britain wanted to colonise Thailand: it was the dual pricing system!  ????

The King had a European tour, and made connections, so I guess he saved the country from being colonized. Do not remember if he was educated in Uk, but will refresh my memory later.

As I've said before concerning this kind of issue; be careful who you get into bed with. Some of the African nations that took "loans" from the Chinese are finding this out.

The problem is; Thais tend to look at today--and possibly tomorrow, but not farther down the road. The Chinese don't care about tomorrow they're looking at hundreds of years down the road.

15 hours ago, ross163103 said:

As I've said before concerning this kind of issue; be careful who you get into bed with. Some of the African nations that took "loans" from the Chinese are finding this out.

The problem is; Thais tend to look at today--and possibly tomorrow, but not farther down the road. The Chinese don't care about tomorrow they're looking at hundreds of years down the road.

You are correct but the same thing happens in the west.  There was a case, early 90's where the World Bank convinvced Indonesia into investing in hydro electricity without noticing the fine print concerning interest rates and guarrantees that all replacement parts/capital goods etc had to be purchased from certain US companies.

 

Aid is not always aid.

15 hours ago, ross163103 said:

As I've said before concerning this kind of issue; be careful who you get into bed with. Some of the African nations that took "loans" from the Chinese are finding this out.

The problem is; Thais tend to look at today--and possibly tomorrow, but not farther down the road. The Chinese don't care about tomorrow they're looking at hundreds of years down the road.

Can you please give one example of an African nation that is finding out about getting a “loan” from China? All the examples that I know of seem to indicate that the nation concerned is very happy with the infrastructure investments made by China and Chinese firms. 

On 6/13/2023 at 7:00 PM, Gweiloman said:

Why not just leave and save yourselves a lot of money and trouble? No one’s holding a gun to your head to stay and meddle in Asian affairs. 
 

The reason is because you are trying to hold onto your (diminishing) hegemony and to continue to prop up the MIC which is the real ruling elite.

Asking them to leave? Good luck with that...

 

https://apnews.com/article/religion-mike-pompeo-middle-east-baghdad-iran-182bae76452d7565b0a3d840ff0369cb

1 hour ago, Gweiloman said:

Can you please give one example of an African nation that is finding out about getting a “loan” from China? All the examples that I know of seem to indicate that the nation concerned is very happy with the infrastructure investments made by China and Chinese firms. 

https://blog.politics.ox.ac.uk/chinas-role-in-restructuring-debt-in-africa/#:~:text=China has become Africa's biggest,of the Sino-African relationship.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debt-trap_diplomacy

https://fortune.com/2023/05/18/china-belt-road-loans-pakistan-sri-lanka-africa-collapse-economic-instability/

 

It's called "debt trap diplomacy". No specifics on whether certaIn nations are very happy or unhappy just that there are in debt distress or at a high risk of debt distress. I'm sure China will have a way out for these countries when they start to default on their debt..........if you know what I mean. Cambodia is going the same way.

3 hours ago, ross163103 said:

https://blog.politics.ox.ac.uk/chinas-role-in-restructuring-debt-in-africa/#:~:text=China has become Africa's biggest,of the Sino-African relationship.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debt-trap_diplomacy

https://fortune.com/2023/05/18/china-belt-road-loans-pakistan-sri-lanka-africa-collapse-economic-instability/

 

It's called "debt trap diplomacy". No specifics on whether certaIn nations are very happy or unhappy just that there are in debt distress or at a high risk of debt distress. I'm sure China will have a way out for these countries when they start to default on their debt..........if you know what I mean. Cambodia is going the same way.

And Laos has problems paying their Belt & Road debt.  China will most likely have to restructure their debt.  Gotta look benevolent to the neighbors.

Edited June 15, 20233 yr by Isaan sailor

23 hours ago, Gweiloman said:

Can you please give one example of an African nation that is finding out about getting a “loan” from China? All the examples that I know of seem to indicate that the nation concerned is very happy with the infrastructure investments made by China and Chinese firms. 

https://apnews.com/article/china-debt-banking-loans-financial-developing-countries-collapse-8df6f9fac3e1e758d0e6d8d5dfbd3ed6

22 hours ago, ross163103 said:

https://blog.politics.ox.ac.uk/chinas-role-in-restructuring-debt-in-africa/#:~:text=China has become Africa's biggest,of the Sino-African relationship.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debt-trap_diplomacy

https://fortune.com/2023/05/18/china-belt-road-loans-pakistan-sri-lanka-africa-collapse-economic-instability/

 

It's called "debt trap diplomacy". No specifics on whether certaIn nations are very happy or unhappy just that there are in debt distress or at a high risk of debt distress. I'm sure China will have a way out for these countries when they start to default on their debt..........if you know what I mean. Cambodia is going the same way.

No specifics… how surprising. Do a bit more research (and not just from anti China sources) and you will find that the debt trap diplomacy has been thoroughly debunked.

 

33 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

https://apnews.com/article/china-debt-banking-loans-financial-developing-countries-collapse-8df6f9fac3e1e758d0e6d8d5dfbd3ed6

See above. If you truly believe such false narrative, I have a bridge to sell you. Really.

Must be a big relief to China that they have Thailand to back them up against any threats in the region.

On 6/12/2023 at 7:37 AM, herfiehandbag said:

I don't want to appear naive, but shouldn't the new government be part of the decision making process for this?

Why? there is no new government yet 

Is the Thai Navy going to tow their new Subs along in this exercise due to them having no Engines lol the pride of the Thai Navy? comforting for their security if a seaboard attack is launched against them.