EPHEMERALIZATION: Doing "more and more with less and less until eventually you can do everything with nothing." Is this our future, and Thailand our last safe haven?

GammaGlobulin · July 6, 2023

Dear friends,

Of late, we have increasingly seen many topics posted on the forum about AI taking over the world, about AI-related automation taking our jobs, even one recently posted Topic about AI-proof Pattaya Bar Girls, no less. But I am confident that this OP will not remind you too much of those tired old memes.

The young people of today seem to mistakenly believe that this concept of robotics and automation is new, but it’s not. Ephemeralization is a term coined by R. Buckminster Fuller in 1938. At the time, he wrote of “the ability of technological advancement to do "more and more with less and less until eventually you can do everything with nothing," that is, an accelerating increase in the efficiency of achieving the same or more output (products, services, information, etc.) while requiring less input (effort, time, materials, resources, etc.),” (Nine Chains to the Moon, Fuller, 1938)

Fuller envisioned a “future prosperity driven by ephemeralization.” And he was sure that ephemeralization would “lead to ever-increasing standards of living and an ever-growing population despite finite resources.”

Well, that doesn’t sound very Malthusian, and he must have been an optimist at heart.

If you haven’t already, I think you might like to read (re-read) a few of Fuller's books, not just for a better historical perspective, but because they are fun, just like his Dymaxion Car, for example.

A link from the Guardian about the Dymaxion: https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2010/oct/05/norman-foster-dymaxion-buckminster-fuller

I am sure that there are many people on this forum as old as I who remember Fuller, or may even have listened to him lecture. If you have now forgotten what he sounded like when giving a presentation, here is a lecture sample on UTUBE:

Bucky was extremely popular with the hippies in San Francisco, as I recall. But that was before they cut off all their hair.

Was he popular with you, too, when you were a hippy in San Francisco during the late 1960s?

I was never a hippy, but he was still a favorite of mine when I was young and impressionable. These days, knowing what I know, I would be much more circumspect about having faith in famous technologist-visionaries. And, as well, I don’t think my fellow-alumnus Elon is an optimist, either. Elon’s prime directive seems to be finding some way to move human intelligence to Mars, as if he expects armageddon on Earth, any day now. He has even stated that he is in a hurry!

Since my arrival in Thailand, my views about humanity and our place in the universe have changed quite a bit. I do not mean that my views have changed solely due to my experience living immersed in Thai culture, though this is probably a part of my shift in perspective.

Being the scientist I am, I am free to change my views which are not based on faith or ideology. Technology is NOT science. People can have faith in technology, just as Marxism is also faith-based. But there is no room for faith in science.

These days, I am seriously considering making a move up to Chiang Rai and becoming even more of a hermit than I have ever been. I do not mean that I intend to live off the land, unconnected to the grid or the internet, or anything like that.

I am just saying that I want to find a quiet place where I can focus on the few things that still interest me, or remain meaningful to me, such as tea for example. And, I’m tired of dreaming about the greening of Mars. Let the Red Planet be!

When I was younger, before the advent of the internet, I would spend most of my free time reading books. But I don’t read books anymore. The internet spoiled that pleasure for me. Somehow, like the frog in the pot, I became obliviously caught up in this technological world, and one not of my choosing.

So then, Guys, what do you think?

Here you are in Thailand, and surely it is a blessing.

Are you going to waste this precious gift by spending time in tourist areas, in the farang bars,or on a jet ski, ฯลฯ?

Or, is being here in Thailand one of the last remaining places where we can still experience life in a less technologically-driven world, if only we would do so, maybe up in the mountains in Chiang Rai.

I once lived for a few years under martial law, with no television, no radio, no English newspapers, and no uncensored magazines. Life was anything but boring for me. How did I spend my days? I enjoy food, and so I ate. I enjoy music, and so I listened to my studio-grade Nakamichi professional cassette deck. I enjoy reading, and I had books. I drank a LOT of Chinese tea, and it was usually DongDing WuLong. I am happiest immersed in Asian culture, and so I became immersed in it.

Naturally, I am aware that one cannot achieve purest bliss by retreating into complete hermitness without some meaningful work, or committing to some ongoing self-imposed obligation to provide service to others.

Concerning meaningful work, this need not be gainful employment. For example, I have been toying with the idea of writing my memoirs and then posting them, in installments, on some good forum.

Having spent time chatting with people in the local community, it is my belief that some members of this group of people prefer not to worry or plan too far into the future, as Savoy Brown seemed to advocate, too, in the song, “Stay While The Night Is Young.”

As for me, I would prefer to now have some sort of well-formulated five-year plan for returning to the kind of existence I once enjoyed under martial law, replete with tea, books, music, good food, and a bit more. Still, I am not saying that it would not be absolutely impossible for me to live without access to a free and unfettered internet connection to the outside world. (This must be my first triple negative on TV, or actually this is a quadruple negative if you were to count.)

I am saying that I am, in a sense, wasting my life when I permit myself to be so distracted by internet fare that I lose sight of the importance of books, and I do NOT mean ebooks, either. I also do not mean stupid books written by dumb authors; I mean the fantasy-type garbage such as Potter and that loony Ring book.

I am also not saying that I am against the further exploration of outer space at an increased pace. However, logically, we should be doing our exploration using robots, not humans. Humans are utterly ill designed for space travel or living on Mars. My fellow-alumnus Elon has become carried away with his Tom Switian fantasies, just like Tolkien, except that Elon actually believes in his. I read the trilogy, Red Mars/Green Mars, and I doubt we will ever see a Blue Mars.

So, again, I need a five-year plan which will wean me from the internet so that I can stop wasting my life in the virtual world, and, instead, get back to the garden, like Chauncey.

Likewise, I wonder if you, too, have some five-year plan with a similar goal in mind.

Or, are you still more of a believer in ephemeralization?

It’s good to follow the scientific method.

It’s bad to lose yourself in some technological-salvation-of-humanity fantasy.

I don’t even care if you buy a car, or two, or three, but just don’t delude yourself into believing that more than one is necessary.

So what’s your plan to get back to the garden, with Chauncey?

Fondest regards,

And may you finally find your piece of heaven,

Gamma

Note: If your plan is to go to some place similar to the place I would like to be, then continuing practice of passa Thai is essential.

thaibeachlovers · July 7, 2023

Dear Mr Gamma,

please remember that less can be more.

loony Ring book

You are sir, a Philistine. LOR was without a doubt the greatest work of fantasy ever written and anyone that read it was privileged to do so.

Elon’s prime directive seems to be finding some way to move human intelligence to Mars, as if he expects armageddon on Earth, any day now. He has even stated that he is in a hurry!

and he's not wrong to be in a hurry! Looking subjectively at the human race, one has to wonder if it even deserves to be allowed by Gaia to carry on with the destruction and the pollution. IMO it's not looking good for humanity. All I can say about that though, is that Elon should never be allowed to escape. That would be a disaster to be inflicted on any survivors on Mars- the horror, the horror.

I once lived for a few years under martial law, with no television, no radio, no English newspapers, and no uncensored magazines. Life was anything but boring for me.

Sounds like life on a small Antarctic base during winter:

No newspapers- bliss

No magazines arriving- if we hadn't brought our own supply of Playboy; too bad.

20 hours ago, GammaGlobulin said:

So, again, I need a five-year plan which will wean me from the internet so that I can stop wasting my life in the virtual world, and, instead, get back to the garden, like Chauncey.

No television- paradise. IMO television is 99% garbage and 0.01% good. The remaining bit is informative.

We did have radio though, and I learned to despise American Disco music.

Life was indeed anything but boring though. Having to leave after my contract was up was like being evicted from Eden.

So, again, I need a five-year plan which will wean me from the internet so that I can stop wasting my life in the virtual world, and, instead, get back to the garden, like Chauncey.

You don't need 5 years- just do it. Man up and go cold turkey. You'll feel better if you do.

The internet is a trap, but every time I try to get out it sucks me back in.

Here you are in Thailand, and surely it is a blessing.

Are you going to waste this precious gift by spending time in tourist areas, in the farang bars

After discovering Thailand I spend the best years of my life in the farang bars, and not one minute was wasted.

Conversely, every minute spent outside Thailand was a minute wasted.

These days, I am seriously considering making a move up to Chiang Rai and becoming even more of a hermit than I have ever been.

I have often considered becoming a hermit in LOS, but I never, ever gave a thought to doing so in Chiang Rai.

If I were by some miracle to be able to afford to live out my remaining life in LOS it's be on the north east coat of Phangan, where I can sit on the balcony on top of a cliff and watch the sun come up over the wide wide ocean, while the beloved sleeps behind me.

GammaGlobulin · July 7, 2023

12 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Dear Mr Gamma,

please remember that less can be more.

Wow, Man!

I am gratified that you clearly understand this OP:

This OP is really all about doing LESS with MORE!

In other words, this is the TRUE meaning of EPHEMERALIZATION, in fact.

You may not know, but BUCKY Fuller, during one period in his life, actually decided to go a FULL YEAR without talking, not even one word!

Maybe I should do the same?

Or, maybe I should begin posting in more of a HAIKU style?

Anyway, if you are interested in BUCKY's writing style, which is anything but "less is more", I will, in the comments below, add a few samples of BUCKY's scribblings. I am sure that you will enjoy reading what he wrote about DOING MORE WITH LESS.

I have always found this guy fascinating, as have many others during the past century.

Thank you for your reply!

GammaGlobulin · July 7, 2023

Fuller books like this one are no longer in print.

These days, although these books now seem to be in the public domain, and past the restrictions of copyright, still they are not so easy to find.

So I have here attached a PDF file, just in case anyone might wish to read more about Fuller's concept of ephemeralization, and doing more with less.

For some here, seeing this book cover, you may become suddenly flooded with nostalgia for the good old days.

There is even an excerpt from Frank Lloyd Wright's review of Nine Chains to the Moon, which I mentioned in the OP.

I have searched the net, and nobody seems to be reading Buckminster Fuller, much, anymore.

Take a look at the attached file, and see what you think.

Hopefully, you will find the quality of the attached copy, although rather poor, is still up to snuff.

the-dymaxion-world-of-buckminster-fuller.pdf

thaibeachlovers · July 8, 2023

14 hours ago, GammaGlobulin said:

You may not know, but BUCKY Fuller, during one period in his life, actually decided to go a FULL YEAR without talking, not even one word!

That is becoming quite easy to do now, given we can do our job/ shopping/ banking/ everything on line. No need to talk to anyone anymore.

I don't do anything on line but I can go to town and use machine checkout in supermarket, cash machine in bank, self service petrol pump, ticket machine in parking building. I only talk to anyone if I want to, not because I have to.

IMO humans will lose the ability to communicate verbally once sexbots take the place of the wife/ gf.

GammaGlobulin · July 8, 2023

GammaGlobulin · July 8, 2023

Would you agree with Bucky’s thinking that…“We are not going to be able to operate our Spaceship Earth successfully nor for much longer unless we see it as a whole spaceship and our fate as common. It has to be everybody or nobody.”

Buckminster Fuller

Born in the same year as my grandfather, 1895, are Fuller’s books still worth reading today, and do they remain relevant?

This book, Critical Path, was written a very long time ago, back in the day when Mary Hartman, Mary Hartman was so popular, and when Louise Lasser, the lead actor of that comedy who was also Woody’s wife, was still so frustratingly HOT.

“Everything for everybody or oblivion”? Really?

Why not read a few paragraphs, and then decide...

The hippies are long gone.

Bucky survives!

Even Einstein tolerated him.

"At Bangkok, on the Chao Phraya River, I find the most extraordinary
history of the development of wooden boatbuilding as yet manifest on our
planet. I remember how back in 1958, as I went along canals leading off
from the Chao Phraya River, I kept discovering shipyards. In all America
there are less than fifty boatbuilding yards now in operation. But in Greater
Bangkok alone I saw more than 100 boatyards.
To the boatyards of the Chao Phraya River and its canals the logging
people inland and upstream bring seaward (with the current and tides) great
teak logs, which are towed together in enormous intertied rafts. As we get
into the Bangkok region, we see the great teak log rafts moored wherever
there is spare waterfront."

I think Bucky enjoyed his time in BKK.

Fuller, R. Buckminster - Critical path (1981).pdf

Edited July 8, 2023 by GammaGlobulin

GammaGlobulin · July 8, 2023

There are photographs of Fuller visiting Bangkok which are archived here"

https://www.mplus.org.hk/en/collection/objects/photographs-buckminster-fuller-visiting-sumet-jumsai-and-sjas-architects-in-chalermnit-court-bangkok-thailand-ca38-9-2-4/

I would be interested in viewing them.

But how?

GammaGlobulin · July 8, 2023

“It is essential that anyone reading this book know at the outset that

the author is apolitical. I was convinced in 1927 that humanity's most

fundamental survival problems could never be solved by politics.”

“Equally important, I set about fifty-five years ago (1927) to see what

a penniless, unknown human individual with a dependent wife and

newborn child might be able to do effectively on behalf of all

humanity in realistically developing such an alternative program.”

“In my Philadelphia archives there are approximately forty thousand

articles published during the last sixty years which successively

document my progressive completions of the whole intercomplementary

family of scheduled artifacts.”

Just in case anybody might still be interested in R Buckminster Fuller, and the GRUNCH that stole Christmas, my Friends, here you can either listen to the book being read for you, or you can, by referring to the attached PDF, read some of it for yourselves.

About Fuller, it's always best to form one's own opinion.

The Hippies in San Francisco, 55+ years ago, flocked to him.

Does he speak to you, even today?

Buckminster Fuller - Grunch Of Giants.pdf

Edited July 8, 2023 by GammaGlobulin

thaibeachlovers · July 9, 2023

7 hours ago, GammaGlobulin said:

Would you agree with Bucky’s thinking that…“We are not going to be able to operate our Spaceship Earth successfully nor for much longer unless we see it as a whole spaceship and our fate as common. It has to be everybody or nobody.”

Buckminster Fuller

I'm pickin' nobody.

Celsius · July 9, 2023

Yea...be ready to do more with a lot less when your goverment decides to cut your pension because you are a non resident. Then Thailand will be such a joy for every sexpat.

I admit i didn't read the wall of text in case there is some other hidden philosophy behind it.

Edited July 9, 2023 by Celsius

thaibeachlovers · July 9, 2023

4 hours ago, GammaGlobulin said:

“It is essential that anyone reading this book know at the outset that

the author is apolitical. I was convinced in 1927 that humanity's most

fundamental survival problems could never be solved by politics.”

IMO politics used to be the art of doing nothing while appearing to do something, but now it seems to be about making things worse while claiming to make the world a better place ( and getting rich along the way ).

Want to make the world a better place? IMO apply Douglas Adams solution.

Edited July 9, 2023 by thaibeachlovers

bignok · July 9, 2023

On 7/8/2023 at 1:01 AM, GammaGlobulin said:

Wow, Man!

I am gratified that you clearly understand this OP:

This OP is really all about doing LESS with MORE!

In other words, this is the TRUE meaning of EPHEMERALIZATION, in fact.

You may not know, but BUCKY Fuller, during one period in his life, actually decided to go a FULL YEAR without talking, not even one word!

Maybe I should do the same?

Or, maybe I should begin posting in more of a HAIKU style?

Anyway, if you are interested in BUCKY's writing style, which is anything but "less is more", I will, in the comments below, add a few samples of BUCKY's scribblings. I am sure that you will enjoy reading what he wrote about DOING MORE WITH LESS.

I have always found this guy fascinating, as have many others during the past century.

Thank you for your reply!

Can you make post in under 20 words please.

GammaGlobulin · July 9, 2023

14 minutes ago, bignok said:

Can you make post in under 20 words please.

You mean...on TWITTER?

GammaGlobulin · July 9, 2023

On 7/7/2023 at 9:52 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

If I were by some miracle to be able to afford to live out my remaining life in LOS it's be on the north east coat of Phangan, where I can sit on the balcony on top of a cliff and watch the sun come up over the wide wide ocean, while the beloved sleeps behind me.

I hope you get your wish.

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EPHEMERALIZATION: Doing "more and more with less and less until eventually you can do everything with nothing." Is this our future, and Thailand our last safe haven?

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