No government is safe in any way, shape or form

[MikeandDow]

9 minutes ago, h90 said:

It is different oligarchs fighting for power...yes some use the military.....Thaksin was strong at the police....

do you live in a different world,  you need to start naming these so called oligarchs  methinks it all in your mind fairytails, would love to hear some of these oligarchs, and  thaksin was a policeman to start off with 

[h90]

10 minutes ago, candide said:

Ok, but Thaksin never made a coup.

yes he got dictator by other means.....looks more nice....but with his 3000 deaths at the war against narcotics he is nothing better than Prayut with his war against covid.

Stealing way more money that Prayut...but hey he was elected (if we ignore the full scale vote buying + buying of complete parties, with money he gained from corruption ....but that is still more democratic as tanks)

[h90]

1 hour ago, MikeandDow said:

do you live in a different world,  you need to start naming these so called oligarchs  methinks it all in your mind fairytails, would love to hear some of these oligarchs, and  thaksin was a policeman to start off with 

Read Thaksin up....he got rich with his pager service than mobile and satellite...he was the newcomer.

Democrats were supported by the old families with the pretty WEF boy Abhisit.

MFP is the Thai Summit clan....

Google Thai Prime Ministers. Take name by name down the history and google them and their families and connections.

You can also google the influence of CP, the alcohol families, the bank families, something I better not name and their networks

Thaksin was the new rich outsider and too greedy....wanted to much without sharing

It is one big club, fighting for dominance and hard working middle class Somchai is not member of this club.

And ALL of them visit the World Economic Forum and discuss the future there.....without any democratic input.

 

That why it makes little difference if it is a military dictator, Thaksin, MF, Democrats or whoever....

[MikeandDow]

2 minutes ago, h90 said:

yes he got dictator by other means.....looks more nice....but with his 3000 deaths at the war against narcotics he is nothing better than Prayut with his war against covid.

Stealing way more money that Prayut...but hey he was elected (if we ignore the full scale vote buying + buying of complete parties, with money he gained from corruption ....but that is still more democratic as tanks)

I dont have a problem with the deaths in In February 2003, but i have a problem with this  In 2007, an official investigation found that more than half of those killed had no connection whatsoever to drugs, but you need to tone down the rest of your statment Thailand has very harsh defamation laws,  and i dont think you have any proof of what you are saying

[bignok]

17 hours ago, MikeandDow said:

You need to do research!!!!!  Singapore is a city, country, and sovereign island

Tiny. Laos is poor. Cambodia poor. Thailand is ok.

[h90]

4 minutes ago, MikeandDow said:

I dont have a problem with the deaths in In February 2003, but i have a problem with this  In 2007, an official investigation found that more than half of those killed had no connection whatsoever to drugs, but you need to tone down the rest of your statment Thailand has very harsh defamation laws,  and i dont think you have any proof of what you are saying

I don't have the dates of the war against drugs in my head......but half had no connections and I heard in Nakhon Si Thammerat every night some shots.

And keep in mind at this time Kratom and Marijuana were still drugs.

Well I have seen myself truck bullhorning 300 Baht per vote....

And on this election, I have no first hand experience and I don't know which party did it (or if all did it) but lots of reports even here about family members who got 1000 baht (seems there is inflation) or who didn't and were angry because the neighbor got it....

Wife remembers many decades ago they bribe the people with flip flops....got only one side and the other only if the village voted the right party....

And imagine the money to pay at least some area 300 or 1000 Baht per vote. That are huge amounts that all must earned with corruption.

[MikeandDow]

2 minutes ago, h90 said:

I don't have the dates of the war against drugs in my head......but half had no connections and I heard in Nakhon Si Thammerat every night some shots.

And keep in mind at this time Kratom and Marijuana were still drugs.

Well I have seen myself truck bullhorning 300 Baht per vote....

And on this election, I have no first hand experience and I don't know which party did it (or if all did it) but lots of reports even here about family members who got 1000 baht (seems there is inflation) or who didn't and were angry because the neighbor got it....

Wife remembers many decades ago they bribe the people with flip flops....got only one side and the other only if the village voted the right party....

And imagine the money to pay at least some area 300 or 1000 Baht per vote. That are huge amounts that all must earned with corruption.

all iam telling you to be carefull what you post on a PUBLIC forum, some thai might take offence

[h90]

39 minutes ago, MikeandDow said:

all iam telling you to be carefull what you post on a PUBLIC forum, some thai might take offence

I can live with that....and there are like 50 Million witnesses ...... And there is a book I officially bought in Siam Paragon Kinokuniya bookstore that explains how TRT did vote buying in the South and how the Democrats because they have little funds only went to the people who got money from TRT already to give them more....explained in detail and with names....Of course I am not saying that...I was not there. But they didn't get sued....

[candide]

1 hour ago, h90 said:

yes he got dictator by other means.....looks more nice....but with his 3000 deaths at the war against narcotics he is nothing better than Prayut with his war against covid.

Stealing way more money that Prayut...but hey he was elected (if we ignore the full scale vote buying + buying of complete parties, with money he gained from corruption ....but that is still more democratic as tanks)

It's a false equivalence. Thaksin had autocratic tendencies but (he and his party) always came to power by elections. And unlike the military clowns could have been outvoted.

As to corruption, the military was exonerated of any responsibility and de-facto has not been investigated. Forgot about Prayut's nephew, the army park (cannot spell the name), military procurement, Prawit's watches, R&R scandal, and other buried cases, really?

About he war on drugs. You don't know why the army-backed governments never dared to pursue an investigation and quickly buried the case, despite the fact that it looked like the ideal case to nail Thaksin. Really?

[candide]

34 minutes ago, h90 said:

I can live with that....and there are like 50 Million witnesses ...... And there is a book I officially bought in Siam Paragon Kinokuniya bookstore that explains how TRT did vote buying in the South and how the Democrats because they have little funds only went to the people who got money from TRT already to give them more....explained in detail and with names....Of course I am not saying that...I was not there. But they didn't get sued....

Interesting. Which book?

[h90]

2 minutes ago, candide said:

It's a false equivalence. Thaksin had autocratic tendencies but (he and his party) always came to power by elections. And unlike the military clowns could have been outvoted.

As to corruption, the military was exonerated of any responsibility and de-facto has not been investigated. Forgot about Prayut's nephew, the army park (cannot spell the name), military procurement, Prawit's watches, R&R scandal, and other buried cases, really?

About he war on drugs. You don't know why the army-backed governments never dared to pursue an investigation and quickly buried the case, despite the fact that it looked like the ideal case to nail Thaksin. Really?

Well at the end you could not outvote Thaksin anymore....he got similar to Hun Sen. And you could outvote the military (as we have just seen).

Yes there was corruption but in compare to Thaksin times you would need to search for watches on Prawits hand....Bad enough but minor cases.....And yes complete buried the cases and all the yellow that were so against corruption didn't want to know because it is their guy (kind similar to the divide in USA....where people only see the crimes of the other guy).

War on drugs that the army backed government didn't look into it....I never thought about that...you have a point. I thought they may want to close the case of Thaksin but I am sure there are plenty of people who are interested so Army must have actively suppressed that. Too many of the own people involved?

[h90]

7 minutes ago, candide said:

Interesting. Which book?

Can't remember....something Democrats/south/Thailand.....must be long ago >10 years....need to google it.

[candide]

1 hour ago, h90 said:

Well at the end you could not outvote Thaksin anymore....he got similar to Hun Sen. And you could outvote the military (as we have just seen).

Yes there was corruption but in compare to Thaksin times you would need to search for watches on Prawits hand....Bad enough but minor cases.....And yes complete buried the cases and all the yellow that were so against corruption didn't want to know because it is their guy (kind similar to the divide in USA....where people only see the crimes of the other guy).

War on drugs that the army backed government didn't look into it....I never thought about that...you have a point. I thought they may want to close the case of Thaksin but I am sure there are plenty of people who are interested so Army must have actively suppressed that. Too many of the own people involved?

There's no reason why Thaksin could not have been outboard, it just needed people would have stopped voting for him or his party.

About the junta linked corruption, unlike Thaksin, it has not really been investigated. Thaksin was not more corrupt than most other Thai politicians or businessmen.

About the absence of wide investigation about the war on drugs, have you forgotten that Thaksin has been "asked" to do it.

[heybruce]

7 hours ago, h90 said:

Well at the end you could not outvote Thaksin anymore....he got similar to Hun Sen. And you could outvote the military (as we have just seen).

Yes there was corruption but in compare to Thaksin times you would need to search for watches on Prawits hand....Bad enough but minor cases.....And yes complete buried the cases and all the yellow that were so against corruption didn't want to know because it is their guy (kind similar to the divide in USA....where people only see the crimes of the other guy).

War on drugs that the army backed government didn't look into it....I never thought about that...you have a point. I thought they may want to close the case of Thaksin but I am sure there are plenty of people who are interested so Army must have actively suppressed that. Too many of the own people involved?

"Yes there was corruption but in compare to Thaksin times you would need to search for watches on Prawits hand....Bad enough but minor cases...."

 

Nonsense.

 

In the absence of investigations the preferred corruption metric is the Transparency International Corruption Perception index.  It shows corruption increasing when the military took over in 2006, https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2006  and more or less holding steady after the 2014 coup.  https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2022/index/tha 

[jacko45k]

On 7/10/2023 at 8:38 AM, h90 said:

Look at the map.....it is a city.

I think of it as an island State. City is not a correct term as it has independence of Governance, currency and many other attributes. 

[MikeandDow]

7 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

I think of it as an island State. City is not a correct term as it has independence of Governance, currency and many other attributes. 

Singapore  is today (beside Monaco) the most densely populated independent country in the world.

 

The identity of Singapore can be a bit confusing. Many people tend to get stuck as to whether Singapore is a country, a city, or an island. Interestingly, Singapore is all three. Singapore is actually a country-city-island, the only one of its kind in the world.

Edited July 11, 2023 by MikeandDow