Reports of modern slavery double in UK care sector

[stevenl]

35 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

You've just spent about £1 trillion.

 

Where is the money coming from?

 

At what level of government is social care funded?

 

How much salary and wealth do you think someone in the top 20% has?

He has an idea, your execution questions are not relevant.

[youreavinalaff]

16 minutes ago, stevenl said:

He has an idea, your execution questions are not relevant.

Perfectly relevant to the conversation we are having.

 

Why not scroll back, have a look and try to keep up?

[stevenl]

13 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

Perfectly relevant to the conversation we are having.

 

Why not scroll back, have a look and try to keep up?

No need, your questions remind me of the questions asked some time ago to chomper.

Irrelevant questions.

[youreavinalaff]

7 minutes ago, stevenl said:

No need, your questions remind me of the questions asked some time ago to chomper.

Irrelevant questions.

Irrelavant to you. That's fine. 

 

Why make an irrelevant comment in reply?

 

Keep out of the conversation. That's the best idea. 

[stevenl]

12 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

Irrelavant to you. That's fine. 

 

Why make an irrelevant comment in reply?

 

Keep out of the conversation. That's the best idea. 

Thanks for the suggestion. When I feel like it I will post here though. No matter your ideas.

[Chomper Higgot]

Topical broadcast from the BBC, available on I-Player:

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m001pc98/bbc-wales-investigates-i-want-to-go-home

[vinny41]

20 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Topical broadcast from the BBC, available on I-Player:

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m001pc98/bbc-wales-investigates-i-want-to-go-home

Here is the relevant article for those that can't access i-player

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-66260332

 

Keri Lewellyn runs a care company in Barry, south Wales, and said staff have "left in their droves" since the pandemic, meaning she only has enough carers for half the number of clients she used to.

"A local Asda pays £13 an hour with no previous experience, so we can't really compete," she said.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-66260332

Depending on their health and fitness some people require 4 to 5 carers each day

 

 

 

 

 

 

[youreavinalaff]

37 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Here is the relevant article for those that can't access i-player

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-66260332

 

Keri Lewellyn runs a care company in Barry, south Wales, and said staff have "left in their droves" since the pandemic, meaning she only has enough carers for half the number of clients she used to.

"A local Asda pays £13 an hour with no previous experience, so we can't really compete," she said.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-66260332

Depending on their health and fitness some people require 4 to 5 carers each day

 

 

 

 

 

 

Why do people feel the need to lie to get a point across?

 

Asda pays £10.90 to their staff.

 

The care company, the one complaining she can't get staff, will receive in the region of £20 an hour from the local authorities. How much are they paying the staff?

 

Also the 4 to 5 carers per day is misleading. They mean 3 visits a day of about 1.5 hours with 1 or 2 carers each time, depending on the mobility of the client. Meaning, on a 12 hour shift, 2 carers per day is sufficient.

 

 

Edited July 31, 2023 by youreavinalaff

[Chomper Higgot]

10 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

Why do people feel the need to lie to get a point across?

 

Asda pays £10.90 to their staff.

 

The care company, the one complaining she can't get staff, will receive in the region of £20 an hour from the local authorities. How much are they paying the staff?

 

Also the 4 to 5 carers per day is misleading. They mean 3 visits a day of about 1.5 hours with 1 or 2 carers each time, depending on the mobility of the client. Meaning, on a 12 hour shift, 2 carers per day is sufficient.

 

 

I see you edited out your statement on how you would respond to a member of your family being stuck in hospital due to the lack of home care services.

Odd, because taking care of one’s own parents is far from something to be embarrassed about.

 

 

 

 

Edited July 31, 2023 by Chomper Higgot

[BritManToo]

10 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I see you edited out your statement on how you would respond to a member of your family being stuck in hospital due to the lack of home care services.

Odd, because taking care of one’s own parents is far from something to be embarrassed about.

If you loved your parents, you'd be looking after them yourself in your own home, not trying to stuff them in a nursing home.

Edited July 31, 2023 by BritManToo

[youreavinalaff]

1 minute ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I see you edited out your state on how you would respond.

 

 

Having read the full article once again, the lady in question mentions she has no family. Therefore, the last part of my comment was not relevant.

 

I also noticed this in the article: " I've just been in bed constantly apart from being hoisted sometimes into a chair - I haven't had my feet on the ground at all," she said.".

 

If she is being hoisted, she has had a full assessment and has been deemed non load bearing. Even if she was at home, her feet still would not be touching the ground.

 

Therefore, her waiting for 12 months for carers cannot be totally to blame. If she needs to be hoisted then her home will need to be converted to accommodate that. Bathrooms particularly need a lot of work, often being converted into wet rooms. 

 

The article is misleading on several points. Easily identified by someone with experience in the field. 

 

[vinny41]

9 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

Why do people feel the need to lie to get a point across?

 

Asda pays £10.90 to their staff.

 

The care company, the one complaining she can't get staff, will receive in the region of £20 an hour from the local authorities. How much are they paying the staff?

 

Also the 4 to 5 carers per day is misleading. They mean 3 visits a day of about 1.5 hours with 1 or 2 carers each time, depending on the mobility of the client. Meaning, on a 12 hour shift, 2 carers per day is sufficient.

 

 

The article does state With no family, Lily has lived on her own in the Vale of Glamorgan for decades.

I don't believe anyone would be allowed to work 12 hour shifts without breaks 7 days a week

Most council offer home carers for getting out of bed, toilet assistance showering breakfast taking medicine Morning visit normally lasting between 1-1.5 hours

Lunchtime visit preparing lunch visit lasting between 30 minutes to 1 hour

Evening visit preparing evening meal, toilet assistance taking medicine getting person into bed visit lasting between 1.5 hours

In addition to all of the above 2-3 times a week laundry and shopping

Dependent on the person mobility it can take 2 carers to get someone into a bath if a shower isn't available or 2 carers to get someone out of bed and into bed 

And it seems for asda workers outside the M25 area they now get £11.11 per hour

https://www.westerntelegraph.co.uk/news/23331769.asda-give-store-colleagues-10-pay-rise-april-2023/

[youreavinalaff]

Having research further, the facility the lady was/ is in is a rehabilitation centre. 

 

That is basically a government run and funded nursing home. Like a halfway house for someone who has been in general hospital, is too well to stay there but not well enough to go home or the home where they are going to is not suitable for their needs. Often the wait is for hospital style bed to be fitted, wet room conversation, hoist installation, wheelchair specific to her needs. 

 

She was getting the necessary care she needed including; 

• Physiotherapy
• Occupational Therapy
• Podiatry
• Speech and Language Therapy
• Dietitian 

Again, thevarticle was misleading as this was not mentioned.

[youreavinalaff]

7 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

The article does state With no family, Lily has lived on her own in the Vale of Glamorgan for decades.

I don't believe anyone would be allowed to work 12 hour shifts without breaks 7 days a week

Most council offer home carers for getting out of bed, toilet assistance showering breakfast taking medicine Morning visit normally lasting between 1-1.5 hours

Lunchtime visit preparing lunch visit lasting between 30 minutes to 1 hour

Evening visit preparing evening meal, toilet assistance taking medicine getting person into bed visit lasting between 1.5 hours

In addition to all of the above 2-3 times a week laundry and shopping

Dependent on the person mobility it can take 2 carers to get someone into a bath if a shower isn't available or 2 carers to get someone out of bed and into bed 

And it seems for asda workers outside the M25 area they now get £11.11 per hour

https://www.westerntelegraph.co.uk/news/23331769.asda-give-store-colleagues-10-pay-rise-april-2023/

I didn't say 12 hours with no breaks. 

 

As you pointed out, carers usually only stay 1 to 1.5 hours. That's 3 to 4.5 hours a day per client. Usually carers would visit 2 or 3 clients in a day, depending on their shift. 

 

Domicilliary care is very flexible. I've supported clients for full 12 hour shifts. I've also supported 3 or 4 in a day. It's totally up to the carers what hours they work. 

 

Even with the pay rise theyve received, which I  apologise for missing, Asda staff are not on £13 an hour.  

[vinny41]

12 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

If you loved your parents, you'd be looking after them yourself in your own home, not trying to stuff them in a nursing home.

And many people do, according to DWP figures in February 2022  number of people claiming carers allowance was 1.3 million 

People with Dementia and alzheimer their condition gets worse over time to the point its no longer possible for them to remain at home

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/jul/31/families-caring-for-dementia-patients-in-uk-reaching-crisis-point-says-charity

 

[Chomper Higgot]

29 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

Having read the full article once again, the lady in question mentions she has no family. Therefore, the last part of my comment was not relevant.

 

I also noticed this in the article: " I've just been in bed constantly apart from being hoisted sometimes into a chair - I haven't had my feet on the ground at all," she said.".

 

If she is being hoisted, she has had a full assessment and has been deemed non load bearing. Even if she was at home, her feet still would not be touching the ground.

 

Therefore, her waiting for 12 months for carers cannot be totally to blame. If she needs to be hoisted then her home will need to be converted to accommodate that. Bathrooms particularly need a lot of work, often being converted into wet rooms. 

 

The article is misleading on several points. Easily identified by someone with experience in the field. 

 

The article is an introduction to the program, it’s a considerable distillation.

[youreavinalaff]

6 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

And many people do, according to DWP figures in February 2022  number of people claiming carers allowance was 1.3 million 

People with Dementia and alzheimer their condition gets worse over time to the point its no longer possible for them to remain at home

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/jul/31/families-caring-for-dementia-patients-in-uk-reaching-crisis-point-says-charity

 

I agree. Alzheimer is a form of dementia. As symptoms worsen, care and support is much better at a place designed for such care with trained carers.

 

There are protocols to follow such as SALT, DoLs, Mental Health Act, Safeguarding. 

 

If either of my parents develop such symptoms, our family will take care the best we can for as long as we can. However, and we have spoke openly about this, all parties agree there will become a point where the health and safety of all involved will mean, eventually, needing to seek care in a residential home.

[youreavinalaff]

3 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The article is an introduction to the program, it’s a considerable distillation.

Regardless, it is misleading. 

 

It's a tactic used by the media to grab attention. Attention to something that, to the trained eye, is not what it seems.

[Chomper Higgot]

35 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

If you loved your parents, you'd be looking after them yourself in your own home, not trying to stuff them in a nursing home.

You’ll not get any arguments from me regarding one’s responsibilities to one’s parents.

 

Though I have observed it’s not something all agree with:

 

On 7/25/2023 at 8:15 AM, Chomper Higgot said:

I don’t hear any Brits complaining after leaving their parents in care homes that are reliant on immigrants to do the caring.

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

4 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

Regardless, it is misleading. 

 

It's a tactic used by the media to grab attention. Attention to something that, to the trained eye, is not what it seems.

I think I’d watch the program before deciding what an eye, trained or otherwise, sees.

 

[Goat]

On 7/25/2023 at 4:54 PM, JonnyF said:

Exactly. Solve one problem, create multiple other problems.

No wonder there's a housing crisis and a shortage of school places. 

I'm glad I got out when I did.

 

So you immigrated to Thailand? Creating other problems now?

Viscious circle.

[JonnyF]

2 minutes ago, Goat said:

So you immigrated to Thailand? Creating other problems now?

Viscious circle.

I was invited to Thailand by the UK company that I was employed by who had heavily invested in setting up factories on the Eastern seaboard under the BOI scheme.

 

I hardly think the millions and millions of Baht in income tax that I have paid over the last 17 years have created many issues. Neither has the Bangkok condo that I purchased or the 10+ locally made vehicles. Nor the hundreds of Thais that are employed by the company. 

[Chomper Higgot]

More on the impacts of failing care provisions on the NHS:

 

https://www.express.co.uk/life-style/health/1716772/social-care-crisis-hospital-beds-NHS-crisis-ambulance/amp

[vinny41]

29 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

You’ll not get any arguments from me regarding one’s responsibilities to one’s parents.

 

Though I have observed it’s not something all agree with:

 

 

 

And many people do as the DWP figures show In February 2022 there was 1,320,000 people claiming carers allowance

[Chomper Higgot]

4 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

And many people do as the DWP figures show In February 2022 there was 1,320,000 people claiming carers allowance

Indeed, many do, and many do not.

 

Very many carers are unpaid and receive no benefits, and are often not family members but friends and neighbours.

[vinny41]

52 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Indeed, many do, and many do not.

 

Very many carers are unpaid and receive no benefits, and are often not family members but friends and neighbours.

if they are caring for someone for more than 35 hrs per week there is nothing stopping anyone from claiming carers allowance it is not restricted to family members only

[vinny41]

lack of care workers in the Uk is a short-term issue longer term in care homes workers will be replaced by robots and leaving humans as decision makers until sufficient trust by the public to allow the decision makers positions to be filled by robots

Personally I think there should be a recruitment drive aimed at potential university candidates paid current rates but with a bonus for each year you complete working in the care sector all your university fees are paid for if you complete 3 years working in the care sector then all your university fees are paid for which would mean you leave university without a huge debt burden

[FruitPudding]

On 7/25/2023 at 4:01 PM, Chomper Higgot said:

You could do the caring yourself.

Uhm, people get put into care home because they are unable to care for themselves ????

[Chomper Higgot]

44 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

if they are caring for someone for more than 35 hrs per week there is nothing stopping anyone from claiming carers allowance it is not restricted to family members only

Did I say it was?

[Chomper Higgot]

54 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

lack of care workers in the Uk is a short-term issue longer term in care homes workers will be replaced by robots and leaving humans as decision makers until sufficient trust by the public to allow the decision makers positions to be filled by robots

Personally I think there should be a recruitment drive aimed at potential university candidates paid current rates but with a bonus for each year you complete working in the care sector all your university fees are paid for if you complete 3 years working in the care sector then all your university fees are paid for which would mean you leave university without a huge debt burden

I suggest observing carers at work before imagining robots doing the caring.

 

However, AI is already reducing job opportunities, particularly amongst office based and professional service workers, perhaps in the future these people might move into care work.

 

However, those same jobs lost to AI are also a loss to income tax receipts, so how would care be paid for.

 

There is a clear need for a radical rethink on how care is provided and funded.

 

Care work is an essential function within society, it’s high time it got the political attention and funding it deserves.

 

 

Edited July 31, 2023 by Chomper Higgot