UFOs: Is the government hiding something?

[EVENKEEL]

5 minutes ago, heybruce said:

You really need to tell us, with supporting sources, what your investigations of these secret works have revealed.

 

BTW:  I'm retired USAF.  I was once in on many secrets.  All of them addressed real threats, not fantasies.

What was your rank? I would think if there are secrets it's compartmentalized so no one knows the entire story. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Lazar

 

Lazar purports to have examined an alien craft and read US government briefing documents that described alien involvement in human affairs over the past 10,000 years.

[ozimoron]

3 hours ago, hotchilli said:

Absolutely yes... if the military can claim that UAP's are an existential threat from possible action, the military can further justify a budget to increase their weaponisation, and protection of American soil.

That's how it works.

Show us where anybody in the military ever used that argument and to whom. This is just an unsubstantiated conspiracy theory.

[VocalNeal]

Given the vastness of space and the technical/logistic achievement necessary to travel the unimaginable distances and add to that the fact that our sun is the wrong type to interest potential long distance space explorers. I am happy with my opinion that no one is coming.????

[sirineou]

On 7/25/2023 at 5:43 PM, giddyup said:

There is no way the Egyptians created some of their masterpieces like the 100 ton granite stone boxes at the Serapeum using copper chisels and pounding stones

You forgot . and lots and lots of slaves. 

[VocalNeal]

3 minutes ago, sirineou said:

You forgot . and lots and lots of slaves. 

...and lots and lots of time. Something oft forgotten.

 

I smile at the "What if we built it today" TV programs. Their projects are not planned on a 25 year schedule 

Edited July 28, 2023 by VocalNeal

[giddyup]

17 minutes ago, sirineou said:

You forgot . and lots and lots of slaves. 

No, that's a myth.

 

According to noted archeologists Mark Lehner and Zahi Hawass, the pyramids were not built by slaves; Hawass's archeological discoveries in the 1990s in Cairo show the workers were paid laborers, rather than slaves. Rather, it was farmers who built the pyramids during flooding, when they could not work their lands.

Edited July 28, 2023 by giddyup

[sirineou]

4 minutes ago, giddyup said:

No, that's a myth.

"There were three types of enslavement in Ancient Egypt: chattel slavery, bonded labor, and forced labor.  "

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_ancient_Egypt#:~:text=There were three types of,people of various social ranks.

[giddyup]

4 minutes ago, sirineou said:

"There were three types of enslavement in Ancient Egypt: chattel slavery, bonded labor, and forced labor.  "

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_ancient_Egypt#:~:text=There were three types of,people of various social ranks.

Read the section on the pyramids. Still doesn't explain how great works of art were created using primitive tools.

Edited July 28, 2023 by giddyup

[heybruce]

33 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

What was your rank? I would think if there are secrets it's compartmentalized so no one knows the entire story. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Lazar

 

Lazar purports to have examined an alien craft and read US government briefing documents that described alien involvement in human affairs over the past 10,000 years.

I disregard testimony like that unless it comes with substantiating evidence.  Lazar's testimony doesn't have that.

 

It also doesn't have anything to do with the military using UFO "threats" to increase its budget.

[heybruce]

3 minutes ago, giddyup said:

Read the section on the pyramids. Still doesn't explain how great works of art were created using primitive tools.

What great works of art do you think required alien technology and why?

 

Amazing things were done in the past using lots of manpower, lots of time, and basic tools. 

[sirineou]

14 minutes ago, VocalNeal said:

...and lots and lots of time. Something oft forgotten.

 

I smile at the "What if we built it today" TV programs. Their projects are not planned on a 25 year schedule 

What people fail to consider when it comes to ancient achievements is that humans have not significantly evolved in the fast few thousand of years. Perhaps in size, but that can also be attributed to  better nutrition and health care, 

So Humans back then  were equally as intelligent as now, if not more since they did not have to depend on technologies such as calculators, computers etc. And the incidence of genius occured at the same at the same frequency. And as I said they had lots and lots of slaves. Even though steam engines were invented more well over 2,000 ago they did not develop into practical applications until later. 

Why?

Because the nessacery investment was not economically feasible since they had slaves who could do the work much cheaper.   

[sirineou]

8 minutes ago, giddyup said:

Read the section on the pyramids. Still doesn't explain how great works of art were created using primitive tools.

The item in your post  does not look to me like a pyramid, but hey! I could be wrong. 

Does it look to you like a pyramid?

Edited July 28, 2023 by sirineou

[giddyup]

1 minute ago, heybruce said:

What great works of art do you think required alien technology and why?

 

Amazing things were done in the past using lots of manpower, lots of time, and basic tools. 

The 100 ton granite stone boxes at the Serapeum are a good example. These were supposed to have been made using pounding stones and copper chisels. The degree of accuracy achieved would be just impossible using those tools, but there's many, many other examples.

[EVENKEEL]

5 minutes ago, heybruce said:

I disregard testimony like that unless it comes with substantiating evidence.  Lazar's testimony doesn't have that.

 

It also doesn't have anything to do with the military using UFO "threats" to increase its budget.

The title of thread has zero to do with budgets. I'm more of the it's an excuse for testing drones and other top secret flying machines.

[ozimoron]

Just now, EVENKEEL said:

The title of thread has zero to do with budgets. I'm more of the it's an excuse for testing drones and other top secret flying machines.

So we can agree that the military has not tried to justify their budget based on the existence (and implied threat) of UFO's?

[giddyup]

8 minutes ago, sirineou said:

The item in your post  does not look to me like a pyramid, but hey! I could be wrong. 

Does it look to you like a pyramid?

How many working slaves can you fit on the stone box using primitive tools? Slaves may have been useful for moving large objects, but the mind boggles as to how many were needed to move a 2000 ton block of stone.

Edited July 28, 2023 by giddyup

[VocalNeal]

^ Yes. Exactly. We would do some calculations and decide one crane can't do it so we would add another crane. They just kept adding slaves until it moved.

[giddyup]

3 minutes ago, VocalNeal said:

^ Yes. Exactly. We would do some calculations and decide one crane can't do it so we would add another crane. They just kept adding slaves until it moved.

Not just moved, lifted metres into the air and placed with precision.

[sirineou]

5 minutes ago, giddyup said:

How many slaves can you fit on the stone box using primitive tools?

Not many but you can keep them there for a long time.

 

5 minutes ago, giddyup said:

but the mind boggles as to how many were needed to move a 2000 ton block of stone

Taking it easy with the slaves and not wanting to get in trouble OSHA , if each slave could lift 20 Lbs ... 200 slaves, add to that  a few helium balloons  and....

[VocalNeal]

6 minutes ago, giddyup said:

Not just moved, lifted metres into the air and placed with precision.

I'm sure when man gets to Mars and they meet any Martians the first question they will ask is. Do you have any large stones you need lifting????

[heybruce]

43 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

The title of thread has zero to do with budgets. I'm more of the it's an excuse for testing drones and other top secret flying machines.

This tangent began with the following series of posts and replies:

 

4 hours ago, hotchilli said:

Absolutely yes... if the military can claim that UAP's are an existential threat from possible action, the military can further justify a budget to increase their weaponisation, and protection of American soil.

That's how it works.

 

3 hours ago, heybruce said:

The military has more than enough real existential threats to use to justify its budget.  It doesn't need fantasy ones.

 

3 hours ago, hotchilli said:

You really need to investigate the secret works that Boeing, Northrop Grummond and many others are doing.

 

1 hour ago, heybruce said:

You really need to tell us, with supporting sources, what your investigations of these secret works have revealed.

 

BTW:  I'm retired USAF.  I was once in on many secrets.  All of them addressed real threats, not fantasies.

I don't know if the military ever took advantage of UFO/UAP stories to cover up secret weapons tests and embarrassing failures, but I wouldn't be surprised if it happened.

Edited July 28, 2023 by heybruce

[heybruce]

33 minutes ago, giddyup said:

The 100 ton granite stone boxes at the Serapeum are a good example. These were supposed to have been made using pounding stones and copper chisels. The degree of accuracy achieved would be just impossible using those tools, but there's many, many other examples.

Why would the accuracy have been impossible?  It would have been difficult and time consuming, but in between planting and harvesting agrarian societies had lots of surplus labor accustomed to doing hard physical labor.

[sirineou]

30 minutes ago, giddyup said:

Not just moved, lifted metres into the air and placed with precision.

How much would you give me if I raised , with no help from anyone else, a 100 tone stone like the one you posted  to a Hight of two meters with primitive tools (29 ft long  bar)   ?

If I can't I will give you 5 million baht. or any amount you want. I am that confident I can do it. 

Remember, just because you don't know something. it's not unknowable. I am sure there are plenty of thing that you know and I don't. 

 

[giddyup]

1 minute ago, heybruce said:

Why would the accuracy have been impossible?  It would have been difficult and time consuming, but in between planting and harvesting agrarian societies had lots of surplus labor accustomed to doing hard physical labor.

Accuracy within thousandths of an inch?  Do you have any idea how quickly a copper chisel get blunt when cutting granite? Stonemasons have tried, and failed to duplicate the ancient methods. Hey, if you believe this was all possible using those tools, be my guest.

[giddyup]

4 minutes ago, sirineou said:

How much would you give me if I raised , with no help from anyone else, a 100 tone stone like the one you posted  to a Hight of two meters with primitive tools (29 ft long  bar)   ?

If I can't I will give you 5 million baht. or any amount you want. I am that confident I can do it. 

Remember, just because you don't know something. it's not unknowable. I am sure there are plenty of thing that you know and I don't. 

 

What about 2000 tons? You're going to need a pretty long lever.

Edited July 28, 2023 by giddyup

[sirineou]

1 minute ago, giddyup said:

What about 2000 tons?

You said the item you posted was 100 tons 

"There is no way the Egyptians created some of their masterpieces like the 100 ton granite stone "

[heybruce]

13 minutes ago, giddyup said:

Accuracy within thousandths of an inch?  Do you have any idea how quickly a copper chisel get blunt when cutting granite? Stonemasons have tried, and failed to duplicate the ancient methods. Hey, if you believe this was all possible using those tools, be my guest.

So don't use a chisel.  Use rough sand and hand held wooden blocks to polish the rough faces smooth.

 

BTW:  Builders in medieval Europe lifted heavy blocks very high in the air when constructing Cathedrals.  They used cranes made of wood, rope and pulleys.  The tools weren't that different from those used a thousand years earlier.

Edited July 28, 2023 by heybruce

[giddyup]

2 minutes ago, sirineou said:

You said the item you posted was 100 tons 

"There is no way the Egyptians created some of their masterpieces like the 100 ton granite stone "

I wasn't talking about moving it but hollowing it out with the same degree of accuracy and polishing it to a mirror shine. If you've never seen these objects you have no idea of the workmanship involved. They couldn't be made today with our advanced technology.

[giddyup]

1 minute ago, heybruce said:

So don't use a chisel.  Use rough sand and hand held wooden blocks to polish the rough faces smooth.

How do you hollow out a 100 ton granite box using sand and a wooden block? Sorry, futile to discuss with people who have no concept of what's involved.

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

https://www.theonion.com/house-panel-didn-t-expect-ufo-whistleblower-to-just-dum-1850683084