Cabinet split over Sunak’s HS2 ‘gross act of vandalism’

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Exclusive: Levelling up secretary Michael Gove and transport secretary Mark Harper ‘very unhappy’ over plan to axe northern leg – first revealed by this newspaper – as George Osborne attacks ‘economic self-harm’

 

A major cabinet split has opened up over Rishi Sunak’s plan to ditch the northern leg of HS2, as top Tory grandees join ministers in pushing the prime minister to rethink the cancellation.

The Independent understands levelling up secretary Michael Gove and transport secretary Mark Harper are “very unhappy” about the prime minister’s plot to axe the route from Birmingham to Manchester.

 

In one of the biggest political stories of the year, this publication first revealed Mr Sunak was in secret talks – dubbed Project Redwood – with his chancellor Jeremy Hunt to scrap the second phase of the project.

 

Former chancellor George Osborne and ex-deputy PM Lord Heseltine described the proposal as a “gross act of vandalism”, which would end up being a case of “economic self-harm”.

After the story broke on September 14, Downing Street repeatedly stone-walled before ministers accepted talks over the most dramatic decision in years to stop a £34bn infrastructure spend were taking place.

The story has prompted unprecedented fallout, with two former prime ministers attacking Mr Sunak amid a cascade of criticism and cabinet divides. Boris Johnson and David Cameron were joined by ex-chancellor Philip Hammond in urging the PM not to cut the high-speed rail route.

 

FULL STORY

[Chomper Higgot]

Sunak is working hard to rid himself of his ‘Inaction-Man’ handle, leaping from one U-Turn to another.

 

The north of England learns once again that Tories Tory.

 

Promises to the ‘red wall’ binned. Leveling up binned.

 

The north south divide entrenched by Tory failure to deliver on manifesto promises.

 

Listen up lads and lasses, when the Tories were promising you HS2, talking of ‘Leveling Up’ and rebirth of ‘The Northern Power House’, they were not only lying to you, they were laughing at you while lying.

 

 

 

Edited September 26, 2023 by Chomper Higgot

[youreavinalaff]

I find it strange those living in the north of England are so keen on leveling up.

 

Do the really want house prices and rents to double? For a pint in a pub to increase by 50%? All the while earning the same salaries.

 

It's a strange wish list.

 

Well. Many of those in the north that I've heard comment would much rather the money was spent on a West to East rail link, linking Liverpool, Manchester and Leeds.

Edited September 26, 2023 by youreavinalaff

[Chomper Higgot]

36 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

I find it strange those living in the north of England are so keen on leveling up.

 

Do the really want house prices and rents to double? For a pint in a pub to increase by 50%? All the while earning the same salaries.

 

It's a strange wish list.

 

Well. Many of those in the north that I've heard comment would much rather the money was spent on a West to East rail link, linking Liverpool, Manchester and Leeds.

So let me get this right.

 

In your mind ‘leveling up’ = House prices, rents doubling, the cost of a pint going up 50% but wages remaining unchanged?

 

[youreavinalaff]

4 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

So let me get this right.

 

In your mind ‘leveling up’ = House prices, rents doubling, the cost of a pint going up 50% but wages remaining unchanged?

 

The north wants to be on a level playing field with the south.

 

For house prices, rent and beer in a pub to be made "level" upwardly, prices would need to increase by those figures.

 

Wages are basically on the level, with the exception of those receiving London living/working payments.

 

So, in answer to your question, Yes, in respect of the examples I posted.

 

I do believe I neglected to mention increased council tax due to the rise in property value.

[Chomper Higgot]

19 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

The north wants to be on a level playing field with the south.

 

For house prices, rent and beer in a pub to be made "level" upwardly, prices would need to increase by those figures.

 

Wages are basically on the level, with the exception of those receiving London living/working payments.

 

So, in answer to your question, Yes, in respect of the examples I posted.

 

I do believe I neglected to mention increased council tax due to the rise in property value.

It truly wonderful to hear you talking on behalf of ‘The North’ and telling us ‘what the north wants’.

[youreavinalaff]

3 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

It truly wonderful to hear you talking on behalf of ‘The North’ and telling us ‘what the north wants’.

I'm not telling you what anyone wants. Although you'd like to think I am, or say I am as that's the only response you have.

 

I asked questions and gave examples of how the costs of living will change. I also mentioned what comments I had seen from those in the north whom have commented.

 

Nothing about me speaking on behalf of the north. 

[Chomper Higgot]

Edited, error in quoting.

Edited September 26, 2023 by Chomper Higgot

[Chomper Higgot]

27 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

I'm not telling you what anyone wants. Although you'd like to think I am, or say I am as that's the only response you have.

 

I asked questions and gave examples of how the costs of living will change. I also mentioned what comments I had seen from those in the north whom have commented.

 

Nothing about me speaking on behalf of the north. 

Well maybe you aren’t.

 

59 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

The north wants to be on a level playing field with the south.

 

[youreavinalaff]

20 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Well maybe you aren’t.

 

 

I think you'll find that is the whole point of "leveling up".

 

I've seen northern Mayors say it's what all the north wants. I wouldn't think they'd lie, they are Labour. ????????

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 26, 2023 by youreavinalaff

[RayC]

3 hours ago, youreavinalaff said:

I find it strange those living in the north of England are so keen on leveling up.

 

Do the really want house prices and rents to double? For a pint in a pub to increase by 50%? All the while earning the same salaries.

 

It's a strange wish list.

 

Well. Many of those in the north that I've heard comment would much rather the money was spent on a West to East rail link, linking Liverpool, Manchester and Leeds.

The aims of the 'levelling up' initiative might be a bit nebulous, but I doubt that they include rampant localised inflation. 

 

However, I do agree that the priority should have been on improving local transport links in the north, rather than shaving 20 mins off of a London - B'ham trip. Moreover, the spiralling costs cause a doubt over the Business Case for the HS2 project.

Edited September 26, 2023 by RayC
Insertion of 'HS2'

[JonnyF]

Good move by Sunak.

 

HS2 is a massive waste of money. I'd axe the whole thing.

[Chomper Higgot]

1 minute ago, JonnyF said:

Good move by Sunak.

 

HS2 is a massive waste of money. I'd axe the whole thing.

14 years of Tory mismanagement of this centerpiece Government infrastructure project.

 

What do you expect?!

 

Oh and Sunak hasn’t cancelled it just yet, a small detail of the location of Tory Party conference year seems to be causing him to dither and delay.

 

 

[JonnyF]

2 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

14 years of Tory mismanagement of this centerpiece Government infrastructure project.

It was Labour's brainchild. Doomed to failure.

 

2 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

 

What do you expect?!

Failure. It was Labour's brainchild.

 

2 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

 

Oh and Sunak hasn’t cancelled it just yet, a small detail of the location of Tory Party conference year seems to be causing him to dither and delay.

 

 

And where, pray tell, did I say he had already cancelled it? Oh that's right, I didn't.

[Chomper Higgot]

1 minute ago, JonnyF said:

It was Labour's brainchild. Doomed to failure.

 

Failure. It was Labour's brainchild.

 

And where, pray tell, did I say he had already cancelled it? Oh that's right, I didn't.

Managed from start to failure by the Tories.

 

And now the threat to cancel being referred to as ‘a gross act of vandalism, by … a Tory.

 

Impossible to pin any of this on Labour, but you’ll do your best.

 

 

[JonnyF]

Just now, Chomper Higgot said:

Managed from start to failure by the Tories.

 

And now the threat to cancel being referred to as ‘a gross act of vandalism, by … a Tory.

 

Impossible to pin any of this on Labour, but you’ll do your best.

 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/aug/21/hs2-how-far-has-work-got-and-why-might-it-be-scrapped#:~:text=When did the project start,with Birmingham%2C Manchester and Leeds.

 

 

About as much chance of success as Labour's war in Iraq. I guess that was the Tories fault as well?

[Chomper Higgot]

3 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/aug/21/hs2-how-far-has-work-got-and-why-might-it-be-scrapped#:~:text=When did the project start,with Birmingham%2C Manchester and Leeds.

 

 

About as much chance of success as Labour's war in Iraq. I guess that was the Tories fault as well?

But but but, whatabout (anything other than the Tory Government failure, division in the Cabinet and dither and delay at No 10).

 

Roll on the election, the UK needs a functioning Government, this one’s falling apart by the day.

[JonnyF]

Just now, Chomper Higgot said:

But but but, whatabout (anything other than the Tory Government failure, division in the Cabinet and dither and delay at No 10).

Facts are facts. It was Labour's brainchild. The only mistake the Tories made was continuing with Labour's harebrained scheme.

 

Just now, Chomper Higgot said:

 

Roll on the election, the UK needs a functioning Government, this one’s falling apart by the day.

You act as though the result is a foregone conclusion. History tells us Labour will find a way to lose. God help the UK if they actually win one.

[Chomper Higgot]

Just now, JonnyF said:

Facts are facts. It was Labour's brainchild. The only mistake the Tories made was continuing with Labour's harebrained scheme.

 

You act as though the result is a foregone conclusion. History tells us Labour will find a way to lose. God help the UK if they actually win one.

It’s not about Labour

 

Refer top of thread.

 

 

[JonnyF]

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

It’s not about Labour

 

Refer top of thread.

 

 

It's about Labour's brainchild, HS2. 

[youreavinalaff]

4 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

But but but, whatabout (anything other than the Tory Government failure, division in the Cabinet and dither and delay at No 10).

 

Roll on the election, the UK needs a functioning Government, this one’s falling apart by the day.

So, who's going to do that?

 

A Labour party that has a leader and deputy contradicting each other? Has a leader that has  U turned on promises made during his leadership campaign? A Labour party with a rift between right of centre and far left? A party that's promised to spend but can't tell where the money will come from?

 

Or maybe the 15 seat Libdems.

Edited September 27, 2023 by youreavinalaff

[RichardColeman]

I vote we cancel it and build a huge wall in the centre of the channel !

[Chomper Higgot]

31 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

So, who's going to do that?

 

A Labour party that has a leader and deputy contradicting each other? Has a leader that has  U turned on promises made during his leadership campaign? A Labour party with a rift between right of centre and far left? A party that's promised to spend but can't tell where the money will come from?

 

Or maybe the 15 seat Libdems.

Let’s see how the Tory Party Conference goes In Manchester on the back of all Sunak’s ‘gross vandalism’, U-Turns, delays and dithering. 
 

Is Braverman ready to make her move? 
Will Johnson’s supporters sit quiet and behave themselves?

Is Truss ready for a comeback?

 

Are there anymore U-Turns in Sunak’s hip pocket?

 

 

[Purdey]

Historically, the North was the center of Britain's industrial powerhouse. Since the end of cheap cotton (via the colonies), coalmining and the steel industry it has deteriorated.

The problem may be that creating transportation infrastructure for a region that has lost its traditional industries doesn't level up if the government doesn't encourage new industries to establish themselves there 

[youreavinalaff]

38 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Let’s see how the Tory Party Conference goes In Manchester on the back of all Sunak’s ‘gross vandalism’, U-Turns, delays and dithering. 
 

Is Braverman ready to make her move? 
Will Johnson’s supporters sit quiet and behave themselves?

Is Truss ready for a comeback?

 

Are there anymore U-Turns in Sunak’s hip pocket?

 

 

In the words of Martin Luther King, Jnr. "I have a dream".

 

Not a big dream. Just a hope really. A hope that maybe, just once, you will answer a question with an answer.

[Chomper Higgot]

1 minute ago, youreavinalaff said:

In the words of Martin Luther King, Jnr. "I have a dream".

 

Not a big dream. Just a hope really. A hope that maybe, just once, you will answer a question with an answer.

The answer to who will replace this failing Tory Government will be announced at the election.

 

You know that, or at least I assume you know that.

 

 

[JonnyF]

52 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

In the words of Martin Luther King, Jnr. "I have a dream".

 

Not a big dream. Just a hope really. A hope that maybe, just once, you will answer a question with an answer.

I wouldn't hold your breath. Much more likely she will start arguing against a position that you have never held and then call you a bigot for holding that imagined position. ????

 

I'm hoping Braverman replaces Sunak to be honest. Then all we need is for Starmer to forget what a woman is (again) and we can keep the war mongering, Britain hating, champagne socialists out of power for another 4 years.

[youreavinalaff]

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The answer to who will replace this failing Tory Government will be announced at the election.

 

You know that, or at least I assume you know that.

 

 

I didn't know that. I thought the victors were announced after the election.

 

 

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

Just now, youreavinalaff said:

I didn't know that. I thought the victors were announced after the election.

 

 

 

 

So no point asking me now then.

 

Oh… erm…..

[youreavinalaff]

12 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

So no point asking me now then.

 

Oh… erm…..

Sorry. I forgot your inability to think for yourself or discuss possibilities for the future, other the criticism of those you dislike.

 

You obviously don't believe the two examples I gave are fit to rule. Sort of answering without answering but better that answering with questions.

 

At least you've made you stance clear. Thanks.

Edited September 27, 2023 by youreavinalaff