Cabinet split over Sunak’s HS2 ‘gross act of vandalism’

[Chomper Higgot]

6 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

Sorry. I forgot your inability to think for yourself or discuss possibilities for the future, other the criticism of those you dislike.

 

You obviously don't believe the two examples I gave are fit to rule. Sort of answering without answering but better that answering with questions.

 

At least you've made you stance clear. Thanks.

If I express an opinion on a matter, then you are free to state that is what I believe.

 

If I haven’t expressed an opinion on a matter your statements on what I believe wrt that matter are baseless, worse still assigning views to me that I’ve not myself expressed.

 

A bit of a habit of yours.

 

 

[BusyB]

On 9/26/2023 at 12:06 PM, RayC said:

The aims of the 'levelling up' initiative might be a bit nebulous, but I doubt that they include rampant localised inflation. 

 

However, I do agree that the priority should have been on improving local transport links in the north, rather than shaving 20 mins off of a London - B'ham trip. Moreover, the spiralling costs cause a doubt over the Business Case for the HS2 project.

So does working from home.

[BusyB]

9 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

But but but, whatabout (anything other than the Tory Government failure, division in the Cabinet and dither and delay at No 10).

 

Roll on the election, the UK needs a functioning Government, this one’s falling apart by the day.

Sadly you won't get one whichever way the vote goes, for so many different reasons I don't have the time or desire to list here.

[Chomper Higgot]

8 minutes ago, BusyB said:

Sadly you won't get one whichever way the vote goes, for so many different reasons I don't have the time or desire to list here.

Opinions differ.

[youreavinalaff]

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

If I express an opinion on a matter, then you are free to state that is what I believe.

 

If I haven’t expressed an opinion on a matter your statements on what I believe wrt that matter are baseless, worse still assigning views to me that I’ve not myself expressed.

 

A bit of a habit of yours.

 

 

No, not a habit of mine.

 

It's simply recognising a habit of yours. I'm not the only one that notices these traits.

[RayC]

4 hours ago, JonnyF said:

I wouldn't hold your breath. Much more likely she will start arguing against a position that you have never held and then call you a bigot for holding that imagined position. ????

 

I'm hoping Braverman replaces Sunak to be honest. Then all we need is for Starmer to forget what a woman is (again) and we can keep the war mongering, Britain hating, champagne socialists out of power for another 4 years.

I find the prospect that the insular, isolationist, borderline racist homophobe Braverman might end up as leader of one of the two major UK-wide political parties truly horrific.

 

I live in hope that having got their fingers burnt when they elected Truss, surely even Tory MPs and members wouldn't be stupid enough to appoint another mad woman to be party leader. 

 

(Before I'm accused of sexism, I fully accept that there are also plenty of madmen in the ERG)..

[JonnyF]

12 hours ago, RayC said:

I find the prospect that the insular, isolationist, borderline racist homophobe Braverman might end up as leader of one of the two major UK-wide political parties truly horrific.

 

I live in hope that having got their fingers burnt when they elected Truss, surely even Tory MPs and members wouldn't be stupid enough to appoint another mad woman to be party leader. 

 

(Before I'm accused of sexism, I fully accept that there are also plenty of madmen in the ERG)..

There is nothing racist, isolationist or insular about controlling/protecting your borders and respecting your own culture. I would support all countries doing it, not just the UK.

 

Given her parents are of Indian descent who immigrated from Kenya and Mauritius, which race do you think she's against specifically?

[RayC]

6 hours ago, JonnyF said:

There is nothing racist, isolationist or insular about controlling/protecting your borders and respecting your own culture. I would support all countries doing it, not just the UK.

Agreed but it is isolationist and insular to seek to withdraw from international partnerships, conventions and agreements, especially when you seemingly have no idea what or how to replace their functions.

 

6 hours ago, JonnyF said:

Given her parents are of Indian descent who immigrated from Kenya and Mauritius, which race do you think she's against specifically?

Are you inferring that Indians are incapable of being racist? Her fellow Tory, Baroness Warsi, who I doubt is herself a member of the ".. Guardian-reading, tofu-eating wokerati" seems to disagree.

 

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/baroness-sayeeda-warsi-tory-peer-comments-suella-braverman-racist-b1073500.html

 

Imo Braverman is a simply a nasty piece of work.

[JonnyF]

4 minutes ago, RayC said:

Are you inferring that Indians are incapable of being racist? Her fellow Tory, Baroness Warsi, who I doubt is herself a member of the ".. Guardian-reading, tofu-eating wokerati" seems to disagree.

No. I am well aware of UK Asians being racist. Labour MP Rupa Huq demonstrated it very well.

 

https://news.sky.com/story/labour-mp-rupa-huq-accused-of-making-racist-comments-about-chancellor-kwasi-kwarteng-12706333

 

I am just curious how Suella Braverman is being racist. It is illegal immigration she is against, I've never heard her mention the race of the immigrants being a factor. If you have, feel free to share.

[RayC]

18 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

 

I am just curious how Suella Braverman is being racist. It is illegal immigration she is against, I've never heard her mention the race of the immigrants being a factor. If you have, feel free to share.

Please see my previous post and link.

[JonnyF]

10 minutes ago, RayC said:

Please see my previous post and link.

Pointing out that Pakistani grooming gangs are Pakistani is not racist. It's factual. The last thing we need is the police allowing young girls to be abused because they don't want to upset minorities. Again.

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2526896/Revealed-Catalogue-police-failures-let-Rochdale-sex-grooming-gangs-flourish-claims-damning-police-report.html

 

 

[RayC]

10 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Pointing out that Pakistani grooming gangs are Pakistani is not racist. It's factual. The last thing we need is the police allowing young girls to be abused because they don't want to upset minorities. Again.

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2526896/Revealed-Catalogue-police-failures-let-Rochdale-sex-grooming-gangs-flourish-claims-damning-police-report.html

 

 

No, pointing out that "Pakistani grooming gangs are Pakistani" isn't racist. It's a tautology.

 

However, when an Asian, right-wing Tory accuses another Asian, right-wing Tory of using racist rhetoric, I'm inclined to think that there may be a case to answer.

[JonnyF]

8 minutes ago, RayC said:

However, when an Asian, right-wing Tory accuses another Asian, right-wing Tory of using racist rhetoric, I'm inclined to think that there may be a case to answer.

So if a white or black right wing Tory said the same thing you wouldn't take it as seriously?

 

Isn't that a bit ummmm, racist?

[Chomper Higgot]

40 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Pointing out that Pakistani grooming gangs are Pakistani is not racist. It's factual. The last thing we need is the police allowing young girls to be abused because they don't want to upset minorities. Again.

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2526896/Revealed-Catalogue-police-failures-let-Rochdale-sex-grooming-gangs-flourish-claims-damning-police-report.html

 

 

But it’s singling out a particular minority race, when the facts are that minority race are not the main perpetrators, it is therefore baiting race and plays well to a particular audience!

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-65174096#:~:text="Research has found that group,offenders are most commonly white."

 

 

[RayC]

19 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

So if a white or black right wing Tory said the same thing you wouldn't take it as seriously?

 

Isn't that a bit ummmm, racist?

It might well be construed as that, so just as well that's not what I am saying.

 

It's obviously unclear what race the anonymous Tory quoted in the link below belongs to but I take his/her accusation seriously as well. Just a shame that they didn't have the courage to make themselves known.

 

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/suella-braverman-home-secretary-dolls-essex-pub-rishi-sunak-racist-rhetoric-grooming-gangs-b1074141.html